/sci/ - Science & Math

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There's an xkcd comic about this. Something about shark attacks and probability.

>>6684194
I don't see what your problem is here

It's long been established that psychoactives can trigger latent mental problems in those predisposed to them

>>6684252
I had to stop smoking weed because it induced temporary psychosis, felt aweful and only improved when I was given antipsychotics, had really bad depression for a month or so after too.


>Cant enjoy weed again
Feels kinda bad.

>>6684656
I know that exact feel.

Maybe we can try the serotonergic drugs?

http://forum.schizophrenia.com/t/color-coded-orbs-that-work-in-dopamine-receptors/9026

>>6684656
>>6684721

You could just drink alcohol. Also, I'd stay well away from any psychedelic substances

>>6684194

Well, yeah, but you people are all schizophrenic anyway.

Schizophrenia is like having an opinion. Everyone has several, and they don't have to agree. It actually is quite normal. I think it is just misdiagnosed because psychology is shit and doesn't cure, treat or improve people a little bit.

I can't wait for neuroscience to actually help people.

>>6685883
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1XO6o-9mqQ

Yeah, just an "opinion".

>>6685877
Damn I wish I could do psychedelics.
I really want to explore my consciousness and whatnot.
I was hoping to drink ayahuasca because I've read about its epigenetic qualities, but I suppose I can't. I have heard it's healed some people's psychosis.

The last time I smoked, I was with friends but they left so I went home, and I was on the toilet, taking a post-shower dump. (Tragic, right?)

I had just taken a shower, and the water that was draining down the pipe in the shower seemed to me to be two people speaking / snickering in English. I couldn't make out what they were saying but it scared the shit out of me, because I have read OP's related topic. They seemed to be laughing at me. It was the strangest thing. I left the bathroom asap and just played some vidya, browsed 4chan, the regular and went to bed.

I'll never light up again.

>>6684656
>>Cant enjoy weed again
>Feels kinda bad.

>>6685894
I am sure whatever that problem is caused by the fact he is alive.

Everything is Schizophrenia.

Psychology can't fix it. Psychology can't treat it. It is still called Schizophrenia, like that helps anything.

Neuroscience will do what "magic thought words"(psychology) cannot. It will help him. Because it is a science.

>>6685907
Meh. You're not missing anything. The first time it's neato, then every time after that is "oh look. I can't talk for 3 hours again".

>>6685915
I'm really interested in the profound insights about myself that so many people report through drug use.

Can the same be achieved through meditation?

Is it possible to take stimulants like MDMA since they affect the serotonin system and not the dopamine system? (after I get off my meds, of course)

>>6684194
Correlation is still not causation. Mental illnesses have something to do with stress, succesful people rarely get schizo. They are also less likely to use illegal drugs.

>>6685883
I work in a home full-time with individuals who are diagnosed with schizophrenia. You are full of shit and a complete fucking idiot.

"Normal" people don't lock themselves in because they are tired of a short man coming into their room and throwing water on them. They don't get mad at you for conversations you never had. They don't yell at people to turn the music down when it's silent.

How about, instead of living life as a completely ignorant fuck, you leave your den of ideals and go interact with the people first hand?

>>6685921
No, illegal street drugs can't fix your idiocy.

>>6685931
ebic simply ebic :^)

don't be a jackass, psychedelics have been shown to have positive effects during therapies

>>6685930
Yes, you babysit crazy(psychological diagnosis) people. We get that.

Psychology cured them when?

If you had an ounce of real human compassion in your pathetic passive-aggressive(psychological diagnosis) heart, you would want them to get better.

Psychology can't make them better.

>>6685944
>tfw going to masters/phd in neuroscience to contribute to schizophrenia research

>>6685944
Okay? But it hasn't done that yet, and until then geodone and babysitting it is. Don't say retarded shit like "we r all schizo lol"

>>6685936
Don't be an idiot. Taking drugs recreationally isn't therapy

>>6685946
I sympathize with your implication.

>>6685948
how about taking psychedelic drugs responsibly (Once every third month or less), alone in a comforting setting with the goal to find creative solutions to your current problems+seeing yourself from another perspective so you can improve yourself on all fields?
Wouldn't that be considered self-therapy?

>>6685948
We -are- all schizo. The problem is that only means "YOU ARE WHATEVER I SAY YOU ARE".

I've heard that schizos brains shrink and dissolve. Do you really think they are thinking themselves to death, or do you think that something else besides "schizo" is going on?

>>6684656
I know this feel. I had that shit for a few weeks after smoking, everything felt 'fake' and just really weird all the time. Kind of like I was watching myself all the time. Really scared me. Minimal info about it on the net either. Anyone out there reading this who feels the same way: please see a doctor or something. Don't wait it out.

>>6685951
How about not taking the drug and doing the same? Believe it or not, the sober mind is also capable of profound insight, if you can stop yourself from being distracted by stupid shit for a couple hours.

I've done quite a few street drugs myself and have had the pseudocatharsis before. There's nothing really profound or lasting about it. Please don't buy the shit about permanent realizations and enlightenment. The shit a 19 year old LSD user says is the same as a 19 year old says.

>>6685955
How about you stop being a pathetic passive-aggressive wounded little crusader that has a shitty life?

>>6685952
What do you think psychology is? Nobody thinks you can use therapy to cure schizophrenia. What sort of fairy world do you live in where you think that is the case?

The medications we give them simply make the delusional thinking slow down. Nobody talks to them besides the doctor to review their body stats and review their behaviors. Everyone knows verbal therapy is a sham. If neuroscience helps then so be it

I have no idea what you're trying to prove

>>6685959
>What do you think psychology is?

It is nothing, just labels and no-science. Institutionalized bigotry. A reason to hate fags. An excuse to hate races. A non-quantization of feelings that cannot actually be measured.

It is crap.

Guys listen.. There are two groups of people in this world.

Roughly 30% christian, roughly 20% muslim.

The first thing the second is going to burn in hell for all eternity when they die for believing a false prophet, and the second believes the first is going to burn in hell for all eternity when they die for eating pork.

If this doesn't prove to you that we're all a little crazy then I don't know what will. Really the only reason any belief causes you grief is because the people around you disagree. Any belief shared widely is viewed as plausible or otherwise somewhat legitimate.

>>6685963
The first think*

>>6685957
What? Do you even know what passive aggressive means you illiterate fuck?

Go ahead and do LSD and obfuscate your religious bullshit in it. No one will care

>>6685955
I had a permanent realization when I did DMT though, when it comes to psychedelics i believe you will find what you're searching for, if you really want to find it. If you do them recreationally you're wasting your time, if you do them for a good reason, you will find.

doing psychedelics is like entering "hyperspeed" of thought, you can solve complex personal problems much faster when on them, atleast i can.
And time is a very precious thing to me, I'd rather not spend it on philosophizing for 2 months straight when i can just do a psychedelic drug and do 2 months of philosophizing in five hours.

>>6685965
>waaaah! people are picking on me and no-one cares! I'll tell them how pathetic my life is!

Casual.

>>6685961
Did you just watch One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest or something?

>>6685911
>taking a dump after you shower
You might as well do it before

>>6685968
> If you do them recreationally you're wasting your time, if you do them for a good reason, you will find.

Wow it's almost as if this is true no matter what the fucking experience is.

>I'd rather not spend it on philosophizing for 2 months straight when i can just do a psychedelic drug and do 2 months of philosophizing in five hours

This is exactly the mentality that's untrue. It doesn't do that shit

>>6685971
>maybe if I do drugs I can answer my problems!
>clearly the one who doesn't do drugs has problems

Gee, you're so dumb.

>>6685982
>This is exactly the mentality that's untrue. It doesn't do that shit
just because it doesn't do that for you, doesn't mean it doesn't do that for me, mate.
Every person reacts differently to drugs, and right now you are just being plain ignorant.

>>6685985
(not the one who you are replying to)
are you implying that everyone who does drugs has problems? One can use drugs for other things than escaping, i assume you cant relate to that so you wont believe it.

>>6685985
Coming from an ashamed retard posting feels in an off-topic thread thread on /sci/, your words have less meaning than the diapers you change.

>>6685989
>just because it doesn't do that for you, doesn't mean it doesn't do that for me, mate.
Yes you will be different from the thousands of others who took LSD and said absolutely nothing important

>Every person reacts differently to drugs, and right now you are just being plain ignorant.
Special snowflake syndrome. Either I'm ignorant (even though I am an experienced psychedelic user) or you're just naive

>are you implying that everyone who does drugs has problems? One can use drugs for other things than escaping, i assume you cant relate to that so you wont believe it.
If you're looking to drugs to solve your problems, then yes, and that's exactly what you fucking said you were seeking by taking psychedelics for the philosophical thoughts you retard

>>6685993
I don't change diapers. This isn't a convalescent home.

Thank you though, for your enlightenment.

>>6686010
>>6686011
jesus christ i seriously hope you are trolling

>>6686011
>This isn't a convalescent home.

Well, at least you are spared that.

Psychology and philosophy threads do not belong on /sci/. It is okay to hate those people. We do.

>>6686010
Hey look! It's some stupid faggot with no life experience spouting high school counseling diarrhea like they know what they are talking about.

le trole faec confirmed for passive-aggressive worthless needy scum with no life.

>>6686015
I don't really hate philosophy I just hate idiots. Psychology is just whatever

>>6686014
How an I trolling?

He claimed that taking psychedelics is equivalent to three months of philosophizing. Clearly he needs philosophizing to function, he's looking to make his philosophizing more economical so he can have more time. This implies he does not enjoy philosophy which implies it is a necessity. Ergo, he believes that drugs will solve his philosophy problem.

That's naivety. If you can't see that, then you are just as naive

>>6686019
You sound far more like a high schooler than anyone and you don't even know what passive aggressive means. Can you really not string coherent words together?

>>6686023
That is the closest to "young" you will ever be able to associate yourself again for the rest of your life.

Enjoy your moment.

>>6686022
>I don't really hate philosophy

It really is off-topic for this board. Like religion and psychology.

I have to add "GMO" threads to that because they are advertising and they don't ever discuss the science, they only scream about how everyone is a "science hating luddite" when they don't like how the companies behave.

Seriously, GMO threads should ONLY be about science.

>>6686019
You should see his /lit/ posts. They are even more cringeworthy.

>>6686039
>his

That's a guy?!

>>6686039
>>6686043
i think it might be a feminist

>>6686043
What else do you think he is? Only a fedora wearing neckbeard is sufficiently socially retarded to seek validation by building up a tripfag persona on an anonymous meme forum.

>>6686049
He sounds like you...

Whiny and bitchy. Complains a lot. Creepy pedophile.

Hey...

You stopped namefagging, le trole faec.

>>6686038
Agreed.

>>6686039
>>6686043
>>6686045
>>6686049
go ahead and filter me if you care so much

>>6686056
Are you ID:Heaven? You talk just like him.

>>6685954
>>6684656
I had that after, it's called depersonalization/derealisation, mine was routed in cannababoid activity and faded out after months, I've been a user of opiates due to GI problems [on and off 2ish years] and continued using them with no ill effect. I've abstained from smoking for year now and thank myself, cognitive ability is normal and my short term memory no longer suffers.

>>6685913
>"magic thought words"(psychology)

>implying psychoanalysis = psychology

educate yourself gaylord

>no rigorous experimental setup
>not mentioning that people who are schizotypal/mentally ill are much more likely to take drugs
>source is over 30 years old
>not mentioning the research that has been done since then which contradicts the conclusions of this study

This is pleb-tier science reporting.

>>6685955
Well I used a lot of hallucinogenic drugs over the past few years and HPPD is actually pretty great for passing the time. Although if you ever want to look at a wall and see a flat object instead of fuzz and cool flashing lines obscuring the edges and dancing around for the rest of your life I wouldn't recommend it

I have heard that it is actually that people with schizophrenia are more likely to smoke marijuana. They also are a lot more likely to smoke cigarettes for some reason.

>>6685911
>Cant enjoy weed again
I sort of can enjoy it still but only if I smoke it in small amounts.

Worst part is being around other people if I smoke more, I feel like a complete retard and utterly uncomfortable with interacting.

If I'm out with my cycle on solitary roads it's much more relaxing, watching a movie is quite tolerable too. But that wonderful mellow feeling of the first year of smoking never seems to happen again.

>>6687874
Mmmmmmmmmmm..

HPPD is annoying I want to see flat objects again ;_;

So, sort of related question-

So, about six months ago I started having a more intense change in my perception- visual snow and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon

Now these things have always been there, ever since I was a small child- I just didn't know that there was a name for them, and assumed everyone perceives the world that way.

However, in the last six months, it has become more pronounced. This coincides with my use of psychedelics beginning, sort of- I started noticing it about four months after my first trip, and during a period where I was tripping about once a month.

These changes in my vision don't particularly bother me, but it is interesting to note the change.

Is there any evidence that these visual phenomena are related to my psychedelics use? Or is it more likely that they are the same as ever, and I just take note of them more?

>>6685883
yeah overactive dopaminergic neurons are totally just an opinion

>>6685913
>Everything is Schizophrenia
No.

>>6685944
>uh-oh someone pointed out that I'm full of shit
>quick, confuse the issue by making it about psychology's efficacy

>>6685948
>Taking drugs recreationally isn't therapy
confirmed for never done psychedelics

>>6685955
>pseudocatharsis
>nothing really profound or lasting
It sounds like you either had some shitty drugs or a shitty attitude towards the whole process

Every LSD trip I've had has fundamentally and permanently changed my worldview in some way

>>6685963
>some people are religious and this is proof that we are all crazy
No

>>6685982
>that's untrue. It doesn't do that shit
It absolutely does

Every psychedelic trip I've ever been on has brought with it a deep intuition for things that were previously over my head, and the intuition sticks after the trip is over

I'm very sad to see that so many people in this thread have somehow fucked up their psychedelic experience and now feel the need to be bitter and talk shit about life's most powerful and transformative experiences

>>6684656
>>6685954
yeah this started happening to me, after I turned 20, in my teens it was fun and awesome experience, now it just turns me paranoid.
I guess the worst episode I had was couple of weeks ago, when I was afraid to all asleep due to fear of losing consciousness and it's still bugging me every night.
I hear a lot of friends talk how it helps you reach a "higher plane" and all that but it doesn't. It really doesn't, it doesn't help you expand your horizons, no drug does that, I'm just happy I realized that now rather than later.

>>6686010
are you seriously trying to imply that everyone experiences psychoactives in the same way

are you fucking kidding me man

>>6688131
>some people
Right, not like it's the majority of people and you would likely be one of them if you were raised to one of said families..

>>6688108
That's HPPD

>>6688138
>what is true of the majority is true of the totality
I guess this means that 100% of Americans voted for Obama in 2012 eh?

>>6688145
Righto so you're telling me you don't hold any beliefs that are delusional?

If not, do you think anybody does? That anybody alive has?

If no to that last one then yes we're all a little crazy.

>>6688148
err
that anybody doesn't* that anybody dead or alive has been free of all delusional notions*

>>6688148
>if anyone has ever harbored a delusional thought ever it means that everyone is crazy
Seriously, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

>>6688151
Sorry I'm saying that if nobody has ever NOT harboured a delusional belief, ie that everyone has at every point of time harboured at least one delusional belief, then we are all, in part, just that little bit crazy.

Sorry for my poor wording that caused this misunderstanding.

>>6688149
This is pretty off topic from the thread

>>6688153
Nah it really ain't..

Human grasp of reality is nearly certainly always flawed. And what grip on it we do have is easily dislodged with hallucinogenic drugs or just not getting enough sleep or being pissed off or any number of things. Objectivity is not a trait we are endowed with.

>>6688166
objectivity doesn't exist

>regularly getting high on psilocybe mushrooms was the only viable way of bootstrapping consciousness, religion, language and everything else in the not yet developed human neocortex
>this was completely natural and inevitable
>implying that anyone who doesn't know this can understand schizophrenia

>>6688173
2/10

>>6688177
This.

>>6688179
There is no such thing as an objective observer

There never will be any such thing

Objectivity does not exist

I am sorry that you are bad at understanding simple truths

>>6688185
There not being an objective observer and objectivity not existing are two very different things..

>>6688189
two very different things that are both true

>hurr durr wats relativity

>>6688217
>relativity
*quantum uncertainty.

>>6688220
Relativistic effects kinda blow the notion of objective reality out of the water

>>6685954

You are experiencing depersonalization, stop smoking for a few months (or permanently, if you don't want it coming back) and it should dissipate naturally on its own

>>6685883
>>6685913
>>6685944
>>6685952
>>6685961
this guy is schizophrenic

>>6686321
depersonalization is nothing compared to an actual psychotic break

>>6686038
until moot makes another place for those topics they're stuck here just like philosophy

and he'd probably just tell you to shut the fuck up and deal with it anyway like he does whenever 4channers bitch too much about threads they don't like in their sekret clubhouses

>>6688306
so basically, moot is a lazy fuck with nothing but disdain for the people who made him

figures

>>6688373
>he's so new he didn't realize this before making that post

>>6688376
>he's so retarded he thought I didn't already know this

>>6688144
No, no it is not. HPPD is significantly more severe. Visual snow is a reported phenomenon that occurs most often with people with bad eyesight, and the other thing is a reported phenomenon that happens to everybody to varying degrees.

HPPD is something that is significantly more severe, and is noticeable in that the hallucinations from your last trip never ended.

Goddamnit, people are waaaay too quick to jump to HPPD or claim they have it.

>>6685921
psychedelics are sometimes regarded as being a "shortcut" to the effects achieved through meditation.