/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6681906
i have only one question wtf are we gonna do with all that helium??

>>6682016
balloons and squeaky voices

>>6682016
Talk like Alvin and the chipmunks

>>6681906
seriously most "poison" gas produced by industrial pollution is actually salvageable especially co2 and co. you can't do a fucking thing with helium.

magnetized
target
fusion

>>6682016
replace D-T fusion with He3-He3 fusion

>>6682016
are you kidding?? Helium is one of our most precious non-renewable resources. It is only cheap right now because its a byproduct of oil and gas extraction, both of which are going full bore. Any extra source of helium is very welcome!

>>6682077
How do you get helium form oil

>>6682022
Where can I read up on salvaging CO2 and shit, the most plausible techniques and what stands in the way of it
>in b4 Google
If you have any specific recommendations in mind, of course.

>>6682016
Store it and create our own sun in the future.

>>6682016
suicide masks for 4channers turning 30

>>6682022
>you can't do a fucking thing with helium.
What about liquid helium cooling systems?

>>6682022

>>>6682119

Does anybody have a link to the newest polywell paper? That's the one that has me really excited. Polywell is the shit.

>>6682247
Huh?

>>6681906
Look at this fucking thing! I can't wait until the full prototype is up and running.

I also hope it works.

>it should :(

>>6682016
>>6682022
>you can't do a fucking thing with helium.
what are you smoking? Helium has many very important industrial applications.

There's even a shortage projected unless we find another source soon otherwise, the electronics and medical industries are fucked.

>>6682334
I'm more of a polywell guy myself, especially now that wiffleball has been confirmed. Polywell is more elegant.

>>6681350

>>6682372
General fusion's design is elegant as fuck, don't know what dis nigga sayin.

But if they both work, can't we just use both? I see a future with many different kinds of fusion power plants at work and we can finally put to rest this fossil fuel and fission shit.

>>6682605
>General fusion's design is elegant as fuck
its literally the opposite
>use big ass pistons to force fuck the plasma

Friendly reminders that fusion is a gimmick and you wont see a commercial powerplant in the next 50 years at least.

>>6682016
>i have only one question wtf are we gonna do with all that helium??

Supercooling things.

IIRC helium is better than other gases as a coolant for cryogenic temperature heat pumps.

>>6682092
>How do you get helium form oil

Buried Uranium throwing off alpha radiation that gets diffused in the oil.

>>6682609
>>use big ass pistons to force fuck the plasma
and extract energy with liquid lead and create fusible material at the same time. It might be industrious looking, but it might beat out other designs in efficiency, especially over time.

This will come down to what design can most easily make energy on the cheap.

>>6682632
for commercial use the fact that its a pulsed device and not really steady state gives it a big disadvantage

>>6682632
Geology, eh?

>>6682635
>for commercial use the fact that its a pulsed device and not really steady state gives it a big disadvantage
lol, steady state is a disadvantage at the moment. Pulse systems have actual promise at the moment, they are projecting 2-5 years before a working prototype, not 50 years.

>>6682650
im saying for commercial use on the grid, you dont want a pulsed device, you need something operating at steady state. for R&D its fine tho

>>6682613
For ITER, maybe, but these new devices have more promise.

>>6682655
You want steady voltage and waveforms, but the total current varies greatly with use. Unsurprisingly electrical usage is greatest during the workday.

>>6682655
>im saying for commercial use on the grid, you dont want a pulsed device, you need something operating at steady state. for R&D its fine tho

The thermal mass at the center serves as power balancing between ignition events.

It's not really pulsed output, just steady thermal.

>>6682661
>>6682663
im talking about steady state in terms of energy leakage and particle leakage, etc. tokamaks arent really inherently steady state devices whereas magnetic mirrors are

>>6682665
why is that important? Back in the 1950s the plan was to create a powerplant where you detonate a nuclear weapon in a vat of liquid metal and leach the heat for years, dropping more bombs as needed.

>>6682669
i wonder why that's not the plan now

>>6682665
>im talking about steady state in terms of energy leakage and particle leakage

I'm not entirely sure how one would design a physical storage system that contains a plasma physically anyway...

But pulsed pressure application is still an interesting concept for fusion.

>>6682673
because muh feels and you'd have to build it very big and very expensive.

This liquid lead plasma piston idea is a lot smaller, a lot cheaper and doesn't use the world nuclear bomb.

>>6682676
tokamacs have effectively indefinite particle confinement time, but short energy confinement time, whereas magnetic mirrors have the opposite characteristics

>>6682673
>i wonder why that's not the plan now

That's a rather.... extreme engineering feat, to contain the pressure wave generated through a liquid metal, by a nuclear explosion....

Also, the failure condition on the device would be.... well, rather extreme.

>>6682655
You do realize that the "pulse" is converted into heat right? It doesn't "pulse" on the grid. You're kinda dumb.

>>6682684
exactly, because it was a horrible plan and not at all practical or safe or reliable

>>6682680
>but short energy confinement time

Thermal radiation's a bitch, eh?

>>6682684
>Also, the failure condition on the device would be.... well, rather extreme.
I loled.

>>6682686
yes, i know what pulsed operation means, im studying nuclear engineering and for a large power generating commercial plant you want a modular device thats easily maintained and can operate at steady state. if you get confused by someone talking about the difference between a steady state and pulsed device you shouldnt be calling anyone else dumb

>>6682708
steady state is a crutch.

>>6682716
there are more pulsed device designs than steady state and stuff like them mirror reactors have been phased out pretty much in the past, with people looking back into them now. its not like steady state devices are easier to design or maintain or whatever, theyre just more desirable for a large plant

Somebody wanted that polywell paper?

http://arxiv.org/abs/1406.0133

>>6683817
>that fucking high beta
damn thats based. if anyone wants to learn a little more about plasma instabilities:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rw7m8ysvools7e2/AADQMuCJjj-XKXC6tmsFr0oaa

>>6682016
>>6682077
>>6682624
...which is why it's never really going to run out.

We haven't even tried exploring for helium yet, and we don't bother extracting it from most natural gas. We just got lucky and hit a couple of natural gas wells with a very high proportion of helium while looking for oil, and every once in a while someone tries to stir up a panic as if that's all the helium we get.

Meanwhile, the Earth just keeps on generating more, by the same process that keeps the core hot, and the sun spits it out like a hundred million kilograms of helium nuclei per second.

Anyway, the amount of helium-4 produced by fusion is pretty insignificant, compared to the energy released. On the other hand, fusion could easily become our best source of helium-3, for dilution refrigerators.

Let's talk about something relevant like pebble bed reactors :D

>>6682334
>yfw magnetized target fusion is literally a fusion internal combustion engine in a spherical geometry
and it'll sound like hell on earth as its operating

>>6681906
Commercial fusion is always 50 years away...and it always will be...

>>6683881
Fusion is not happening in the earth's core

It would be a star

bump

>>6687228
Alpha decay is happening in Earth's core.

>>6682234
#REKT
>>6682016

>>6687179
It's criminally underfunded. If we'd spent the money on it that was instead spent on retarded wars that serve no national security interest, it would be a reality by now.

>>6682660
In terms of scale there's every reason to believe ITER could generate net power, although there are major engineering challenges around wall design and how to detect / stop / handle "quench" events that suddenly dump a load of energy into them.

>>6687228

Fission nigga

>>6688552
The military industrial complex can't justify the retarded wars and military industry profits if we have energy independence.

Rich Republicans have investments that benefit from war happening

>>6688692
that's a nice tinfoil hat you've got there

>>6688610
i.e. not the process that causes new elements to form in the sun

>>6688710
>Accusing anyone of this post-Snowden

Turns out the conspiracyfags were mostly wrong only insofar as they didn't go far enough.

>>6688717
>not realizing that Snowden was working for Putin all along
>not realizing that the Snowden gambit removed the last traces of Americans' trust in their government
>not realizing that this is exactly what Putin was after

>>6688717
seriously, that's a really nice tinfoil hat. where did you get it? I'd like to get myself one

>>6682016
steampunk-flavoured airships and flying cities

>fusion

not for another 50 years

2001 1000180800.0
2014 1404014400.0
2025 1766699971.0

>>6688714
Do you understand that fission and radioactive decay also generate new elements?

An atom of U238 that decays generates like 10 helium-4 atoms on its way to becoming inert lead.

>>6688804
this. we orbit approximately three-four stars and earth is one star, sol is a second star, nibiru is a twin star.

>>6688836
Please stop helping.

You need to go back. Back... to the future.

>>6688714

beta radiation (helium) is a product of dense atom decay

I've always been a big fan of muon catalysed fusion. I know, I know, it'll never work, but it's just so damn elegant. I also think polywell will never work because of Bremmstrahlung, but idk.