/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6658192
bump

My current phone signal is at -90dbm

People here believe that phone signals can cause cancer.

No.

>>6658216

For the engineering illiterate, that is 10^-12 Watts, 0.000000000001 watts. You need at least 10 watts to turn on a light bulb.

>says it's in the press
>makes big collage of logos
>no actual links to articles
Yeah, no, I don't feel like looking all that up.

Implying it wasn't already working?

>>6658192
cant we create some indigogo project that will grab a lot of attention so make some money?

>>6658192
>Will it work, /sci/?

the theory is sound, and the Plekhanov brothers and their associates seem to understand it, we will find out if they can apply it this fall. The experimental proof is all.

this is a very good explanation of the physics behind this project
http://globalenergytransmission.com/index.php/en/latest-news/27-examining-working-principle-of-tesla-tower

most people (/sci/tists included) do not understand that Tesla was correct in his statement that this system does NOT use ordinary Hertzian waves (radio waves). It uses a form of EM wave most commonly found in waveguides. These waves DO NOT propagate in the ordinary fasion, they are longitudinal in nature NOT transverse.

>>6658283
What the fuck is a longitudinal EM wave? How do?

>>6658286
longitudinal EM wave are a part of mainstream physics, but you dont normally hear about it because it doesn't couple to any matter, the universe could be full of it but it is impossible to detect it, which is why its just assumed to not exist (since even if it did it wouldn't matter, if its impossible to create or detect it is just as if it doesn't exist), and then cranks hear about it and decide it would make some good pseudoscience.

>>6658283
i've heard that tesla's technology could cause severe autism and hallucinations, is there any truth behind this?

>>6658216
People usually believe that the signal transmitted by the -phone- is the problem, anon, no the received strength.

>>6658315
If we can't detect these longitudinal waves then no, they probably wont make your kids retarded or you hallucinate. We have prescription medicines for that.

>>6658192
>Will it work, /sci/?
Probably not the energy transmission thing.
In reality, this is an effort to milk Tesla fanboys of their milk money. THAT aspect will probably work moderately well.

More importantly, WHY would anyone do this?
There's no way to meter energy used, so someone would have to pay tons of money to transmit energy, while anyone could use it without paying.
Even if someone was just that generous, it's still a bad idea since it discourages conservation, and would thus be bad for the environment.

BTW: Tesla was trying to transmit INFORMATION (telegraphy) across the Atlantic, NOT energy around the world.

Nor is this particularly amazing, Build a crystal radio receiver, and you'll learn that ALL radio transmission involves transmitting energy. A crystal radio is powered by energy recieved in the incoming radio wave.

>>6658309
>but you dont normally hear about it because it doesn't couple to any matter, the universe could be full of it but it is impossible to detect it, which is why its just assumed to not exist (since even if it did it wouldn't matter, if its impossible to create or detect it is just as if it doesn't exist), and then cranks hear about it and decide it would make some good pseudoscience.

dear anon, please decrease your ignorance

Schumann Resonances and the Surface-Ionosphere Cavity
The Earth can be regarded as a nearly conducting sphere, wrapped in a thin dielectric
atmosphere that extends up to the ionosphere, for which the conductivity is also substantial.
Atmospheric electric discharges generate broadband electromagnetic waves that propagate
3
between the surface and the lower boundary of the ionosphere (~100 km). These two layers
define the surface-ionosphere cavity, which supports both longitudinal and transverse
electromagnetic modes. Lightning, most frequent over continents, particularly at low latitudes,
induces the development of standing waves, whose wavelength is related to the radius of the
cavity.
from Observation of Schumann Resonances in the Earth’s Ionosphere
By
Fernando Simões, Robert Pfaff*, Henry Freudenreich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center


so please dear anon, b4 you go spreading bullshit understand what you are talking about

>>6658333
>>Will it work, /sci/?
>Probably not the energy transmission thing.

you need to educate yourself anon]


>BTW: Tesla was trying to transmit INFORMATION (telegraphy) across the Atlantic, NOT energy around the world.

he was trying to do both

Tesla's method DOES NOT USE normal radio waves. how many times do you need to see / hear that b4 it begins to sink in???

read up on propagation modes in a waveguide and then understand that we LIVE IN ONE !

read the paper I referenced >>6658337
and learn some advanced EE
and you might be capable of having an informed opinion instead of media propaganda

Tesla a shit

>>6658333
>There's no way to meter energy used, so someone would have to pay tons of money to transmit energy, while anyone could use it without paying.

Why is this a bad thing? Who the fuck would want an electricity bill?

>it's still a bad idea since it discourages conservation, and would thus be bad for the environment.

It's clean motherfucking energy from the universe dude, you could use as much as you like and not feel any remorse whatsoever. Again, how is this a bad thing? There are about zero disadvantages to this system of energy transmission other than the initial start up and infrastructure cost.

I say just fund the shit so that we can prove or disprove Tesla's theories once and for all and end all these stupid arguments with fan boys and anti-Tesla trolls on the internet and move on with our lives.

Only one way to find out, etc. The proof is in the pudding.

>>6658346
Anyone who wants to incentivize people to make electricity would want a bill.

No bill. No producers.

If food was free, nobody would waste their time farming.

>>6658346
>Only one way to find out, etc. The proof is in the pudding.
I agree wholeheartedly anon
I put my money down and my name is on the list of contributors.
the physics behind this is solid but it's not well known.

I've learned a lot of mind bending shit while working on microwave transmitting equipment.
things like velocity modulation, and a device called a microwave circulator are a couple that spring to mind

the major difficulty modern biz has with the idea is the same as J.P. Morgan had... bilking the mark, er, I mean billing the customer.

it will be easy to detect large users, but the smaller user may be more difficult. and this is a non-level playing field with the advantage to the small guy... big biz don't like that

>>6658346
>It's clean motherfucking energy from the universe dude
No. It's a means of transmitting energy, NOT "energy from the universe".
Even if your hippy-dippy bullshit were true, it would STILL be bad for the environment because waste heat would contribute to climate change.

You're as bad as those losers who hear about fuel cells "burning" hydrogen, and go "we can make hydrogen through electrolysis and use that to power a fuel cell!!! Free Energy ZOMG!!!!111!"

Put the bong down and open a book.

>>6658346
>Why is this a bad thing? Who the fuck would want an electricity bill?

Do you find your electric bill especially burdensome? There are several reasons for why cheap electricity (like we have now) is much better than "free" electricity. Cheap means the production pays for itself, and the consumer only uses what they actually want. "Free" means nobody has an incentive to produce electricity, and nobody has an incentive to limit how much they use, both of which mean, basically, that there WON'T BE electricity, at least not nearly enough to go around.

>>6658357
>the major difficulty modern biz has with the idea is the same as J.P. Morgan had... bilking the mark, er, I mean billing the customer.

Morgan funded a trans-Atlantic radio system that Telsa failed to produce, not "muh free energy".

>>6658357
>the major difficulty modern biz has with the idea is the same as J.P. Morgan had... bilking the mark, er, I mean billing the customer.

What nonsense. J.P. Morgan was the one funding Tesla, you silly man. Nobody had a bigger incentive to see Tesla succeed.

>>6658337
claiming electromagnetic waves are longitudinal because it acts like it in a cavity due to the interference is like claiming photons dont travel at the speed of light because it slows down in water. i was talking about longitudinal waves is open space.

>>6658346
That picture makes no fucking sense.

>>6658368
They want to use solar panels or in Tesla's case, Hydroelectric power to power the transmitter. The first is energy from the sun (from the universe). The second is from gravity (aslo from the universe). All energy is energy from the universe (we're IN the fucking universe).

>>6658389
>All energy is energy from the universe (we're IN the fucking universe).

Which makes "energy from the universe" a stupid and meaningless thing to say.

>>6658354
Fucking pay for it with a sales tax or something.

Make the government (who allegedly work for THE PEOPLE) use our tax dollars for a good thing for a change (after the technology is proven though, of course). Electric companies get fucked, who gives a shit, we need to move on and advance society, nigger.

It's totally worth the initial start up cost if it works like Tesla described it.

>>6658391
Then you should have said that from the start. My point stands that it's clean energy.

>>6658397
>My point stands

This phrase should be an autoban.

>>6658400
Your mother should be an autoban.

>>6658393
>Fucking pay for it with a sales tax or something
There are about 200 countries in the world. Even if most of the world got together on this, what would keep Best Korea from using without contributing?

Even if ALL countries cooperated, there's nothing to limit people's energy use.
Your tax dollars would have to pay for unlimited energy use by all 7 billion people in the world, assuming the government could keep up.
Even if that were possible, the heat energy released into the atmosphere would virtually destroy the environment.

Meanwhile, back in reality, atmospheric co-generation (like heat pumps) provide us with "free" energy after you pay for the equipment, and don't contribute as much to climate change since they aren't adding more energy to the atmosphere in the long run.
Why don't you stoners jump on that bandwagon?

>>6658393
>It's totally worth the initial start up cost if it works like Tesla described it.
pretty fucking big if there

usually we only save new sales taxes for things we already know work

>>6658397
>My point stands that it's clean energy.
It's still not a source of energy, and thus isn't any cleaner or more practical than it's underlying source.
Solar panels lower the earth's albedo and thus contribute to climate change.
Hydro has it's own issues.
Either way, if you have a clean energy source, hook it to a wire and then give it away for free.

There's no reason to transmit it as EM (longitudinal or not).

>>6658407

They only need $800k to build a replica Wardenclyffe tower to see if the shit works or not.

>what would keep Best Korea from using without contributing

Who gives a fuck? Those people need to be liberated anyway. The whole point of this shit is to transcend humanity to the next level, which I believe is entirely possible.

>the heat energy released into the atmosphere would virtually destroy the environment.

Do you have any numbers to back up that claim? What's the total heat output being released into the environment by humans right now? Would it change if power was to be transmitted via the new method rather than wires? What If we made a full on switch to LED lighting technology (which is already happening)? What if we focused on how to make systems more efficient rather that worrying about how to get power to them? Wouldn't this new system of energy transmission make electric vehicles more feasible, thus reducing our dependence on petroleum based products?

>Why don't you stoners jump on that bandwagon?

I'm not even a fucking stoner.

>>6658414
>It's still not a source of energy

Nobody is saying that it's a source of energy.

>Hydro has it's own issues
Care to elaborate on that? Other that having to build a dam, I see no disadvantages.

>Either way, if you have a clean energy source, hook it to a wire and then give it away for free.
>There's no reason to transmit it as EM (longitudinal or not).

How about NOT HAVING TO USE WIRES. Is that a good reason? Holy fuck, that's like the whole point of this shit.

>>6658414
Lol. By how much?

>>6658430
meant to quote
>Solar panels lower the earth's albedo and thus contribute to climate change.

>>6658425
>Who gives a fuck?
The people paying for the electricity in the first place?

>I'm not even a fucking stoner.
[citation needed]

>Nobody is saying that it's a source of energy
see: >>6658397 and >>6658346

>>Hydro has it's own issues
>Care to elaborate on that? Other that having to build a dam, I see no disadvantages.

It destroys wildlife habitat, both upstream of the dam through flooding and downstream through artificial drought. Lakes lose far more water to evaporation than a river does.

>How about NOT HAVING TO USE WIRES. Is that a good reason? Holy fuck, that's like the whole point of this shit.

And what's the advantage of that?

>The whole point of this shit is to transcend humanity to the next level, which I believe is entirely possible
So wires are preventing us from reaching the "next level"?

>>6658430
>. By how much?
By about the same amount as the "free" energy they produce. ( a little less actually)

>>6658414

If you want truly clean energy we should look into rebuilding the Great Pyramid of Giza. They used the natural vibrations of the earth to generate power in that thing.

>start watching at 1:06:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaHONFBXV-0

>>6658437

You seem lost, friend. This isn't /x/.

>>6658435
>The people paying for the electricity in the first place?

Heaven forbid that people in shit hole countries are using electricity from a source built by my government using the tax money I paid by buying shit.

I never claimed the thing to be a SOURCE of energy, I entered this discussion assuming we all knew the fucking thing is a transmitter. Whether or not solar or hydroelectric power is "clean" or not is debatable.
>It destroys wildlife habitat, both upstream of the dam through flooding and downstream through artificial drought.
OK, fair enough. By how much though?
>Lakes lose far more water to evaporation than a river does.
citation needed

Even if it does, it doesn't make a fucking difference. Have you ever heard of the water cycle? The water will fall back to the earth as rain.

>And what's the advantage of that?
Not having to produce thousands of miles of copper wire is one advantage. Not having to depend on the structural integrity of the wire itself for reliable power transmission is another advantage (no more downed power lines). Not having any wires clogging up the city, energy lost due to heat, etc.

>So wires are preventing us from reaching the "next level"?

Maybe. We won't be going backwards if we use Tesla's system and it works like he described it, that's for sure.

>>6658407
>Even if ALL countries cooperated, there's nothing to limit people's energy use.

Yep, that's pretty much how it would go. Without PRICE to put a stop to unlimited common access, people would draw so much power out of the system that it would collapse within months of setting it up.

The providers would have to keep increasing their generation into the system, and send the bills to the governments funding it. Taxation to fund that would rise hugely and just get out of control.

So the previous posters are indulging in Typical Liberal Behavior. There's a REASON why the system for power distribution is setup as it is today. We have a network of power plants, feeding major power lines, which are broken down into smaller and smaller networks which eventually feed individual buildings and houses. And there's a REASON why we put meters on those end points and make it illegal to mess around with the system. Because if we let everyone just suck the juice out of the system, they'll starting using electricity for everything... heating and cooling, primarily. Why not? The TAKERS will count on the MAKERS to provide. Consumption will go up and up within a short period of time, and the COST will run into the 100s of billions of dollars, at least. Trillions. Taxation would explode, and the entire economy would just melt down, ruined by excessive power use and a mis-applied billing system.

>>6658462
>IF WE IMPLEMENT TESLA'S POWER TRANSMISSION SYSTEM AND IT WORKS LIKE HE SAID IT WOULD THE ENTIRE PLANET WILL COLLAPSE!!!

This is literally how you sound. Can you provide me with numbers or statistics that back up your radical claims?

>>6658461
>Heaven forbid that people in shit hole countries are using electricity from a source built by my government using the tax money I paid by buying shit.

Heaven forbid you remember that just because you pay those taxes, you can't summarily take control of the expenses for your own ideology.

>>6658425
>Would it change if power was to be transmitted via the new method rather than wires?
you really need to ask if power loss would increase if we stopped using conductive materials to carry electricity?

>>6658442
Oh without an occasional visitor from beyond your limited box of self determined truths you would be hopelessly adrift in the sea of sheep. Be thankful you at least glimpse the surface... even if you dont think it real.

>>6658471

It's Human nature, you idiot. Provide something for free, paid by taxes, and it will be sucked up by more and more takers, that you'll bankrupt it. And that happens much, much faster with stuff that's highly useful or desirable, like POWER.

But I hardly need to prove this point since it's proven every day by how we use the existing electrical network. NOBODY just generates into the system for free. Producers expect to get PAID.

>>6658471

> observations of basic Human nature
> "radical claims"

Choose one, dude.

>>6658485
>Provide something for free, paid by taxes, and it will be sucked up by more and more takers, that you'll bankrupt it. And that happens much, much faster with stuff that's highly useful or desirable

There's already something that falls under that category. My government guarantees me the right to my life, liberty, and property. I pay taxes for that shit, and I don't mind doing so at all. So far the system hasn't been bankrupted with that alone. I'd be more than glad to pay an increased sales tax if it meant "free" wireless energy.

>>6658491
Well then give me the numbers based on "basic human nature."

>>6658461
>OK, fair enough. By how much though?
I don't know, how big a lake would we need to provide UNLIMITED power to 7 billion people?

>Have you ever heard of the water cycle? The water will fall back to the earth as rain.
That doesn't guarantee rain will fall downstream of the dam.

Spend a few minutes researching this before posting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity#Ecosystem_damage_and_loss_of_land

>Not having to produce thousands of miles of copper wire is one advantage.
There are still high equipment costs with the Tesla system.

>Not having to depend on the structural integrity of the wire itself for reliable power transmission
The equipment involved is still subject to failure.

>energy lost due to heat,
The Schumann cavity isn't a perfect waveguide, there would be losses as some energy radiated out into space, or was absorbed by the Earth.


>We won't be going backwards if we use Tesla's system and it works like he described it, that's for sure
Unless it leads to ecological disaster via unlimited energy consumption, or a global cancer epidemic brought on by tremendous amounts of EM radiation in the Schumann cavity.

>>6658462
>Typical Liberal Behavior.
If we're going to tell people this isn't /x/, we should also remember that it isn't /pol/ either.

>>6658502
>Well then give me the numbers based on "basic human nature."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption#Trends
Per Capita, the US uses more than four times the world average, and we're still paying for it.
If the whole world started using electricity at the
same rate the US does, world consumption would increase four-fold.
And there's no reason to believe consumption would be that limited.
US consumption would increase.
People would switch to electric cars if electricity were free but gas still cost money.

Imagine the disaster if the government just gave away free, unlimited gasoline.

>>6658522
>OK, fair enough. By how much though?
>I don't know, how big a lake would we need to provide UNLIMITED power to 7 billion people?

I don't fucking know. We don't know how many towers need to be built (apparently $800,000 a pop, much less than a fighter jet or a tank) to provide power to a certain amount of people. If you don't know the numbers behind YOUR claims then you shouldn't claim anything to begin with like you keep doing.

>There are still high equipment costs with the Tesla system.
>The equipment involved is still subject to failure.
>The Schumann cavity isn't a perfect waveguide, there would be losses as some energy radiated out into space, or was absorbed by the Earth.

Way to point out the fucking obvious, Einstein. None of these statements are a counter argument to what I said though.

Oh another advantage: If a failure DOES occur, it would be a thousand times easier to detect WHERE the failure took place, given the fact that the method of power delivery has no wires which span thousands of miles that can fail.

>Unless it leads to ecological disaster via unlimited energy consumption, or a global cancer epidemic brought on by tremendous amounts of EM radiation in the Schumann cavity
>Unless

Again, you have nothing to support your hypothesis.

>>6658542
OK, so how much of that energy is being lost due to heat?

Can you translate those numbers into dollars or degrees Celsius since you believe it would affect the climate?

>all these anti-progress fucktards

Just pay the $800k and build the shit so that we can find out if the fucking thing works or not and these people can fuck off with their bullshit already.

>>6658568
>Just pay the $800k and build the shit so that we can find out if the fucking thing works or not
Adjusting for inflation, Tesla had about 4 time that much, and never got it to work, even as a radio transmitter, never mind transmitting energy.

From Wikipedia:
>The project was initially backed by the wealthy J. P. Morgan who had invested $150,000 in the facility (more than $3 million in 2009 dollars)

>>6658557
>OK, so how much of that energy is being lost due to heat?
About 20% of the electricity generated in the US is lost to transmission.
I have no idea how much would be lost by transmitting it all as EM radiation.

>>6658574
They're not the same tower. Tesla's Wardenclyffe weighed 60 tons. The proposed new version weighs 2 tons.

Of course he never got it to work, he didn't even get to finish the fucking project. Morgan backed out of the project and the tower was destroyed.

>>6658588
>Of course he never got it to work, he didn't even get to finish the fucking project. Morgan backed out of the project and the tower was destroyed.
That's a myth.
Morgan didn't "back out".
Tesla spent his entire budget fiddling with the device, and went back and asked for additional funding, but was denied because he had failed while Marconi was already in business operating a successful system.

How can I insulate my home from human made radiation and wifi? Just plain old copper weaving in the walls?

>>6658602
>That's a myth.

What the fuck are you talking about? He needed more money so he obviously didn't finish the fucking thing.

>but was denied because he had failed while Marconi was already in business operating a successful system.

What is your definition of "back out?"

>>6658315
just look at how much autism it has caused in this board while in development. isnt that proof enough?

>>6658609
>He needed more money so he obviously didn't finish the fucking thing.
>He needed more money so he obviously couldn't get it to work.
FTFY

He had the equivalent of $3 million plus his own personal fortune, and 6-7 years, but never got it to work.

>What is your definition of "back out?"
"Backing out" would imply Morgan had promised funds, then changed his mind.
In fact, Morgan provided Tesla with every penny Tesla initially asked for.

>>6658609
>What is your definition of "back out?"

I'm not that anon, but I wouldn't call it "backing out" either. Tesla promised he could do it with X amount of money. JP Morgan gave him X. Tesla was the one who didn't hold up his end of the deal.

>>6658633
>>6658641
>back out
>1. withdraw from a commitment.

He stopped funding the project. You can call that whatever the fuck you want but he fucking backed out.

>Tesla promised he could do it with X amount of money

Source?

You people just keep fucking speculating and talking shit. Just wait till the new tower is built and tested then come back here and discuss the results.

God damn.

>>6658650
>Just wait till the new tower is built and tested then come back here and discuss the results.
Then what are you even shitposting about, post when it's science instead of /x/

>>6658650
>He stopped funding the project. You can call that whatever the fuck you want but he fucking backed out.

He never committed to unlimited funds.
Nor was he delivering funds on a schedule.
He provided a lump sum in 1901 with the understanding that would complete funding.

I'm not sending you money for you to buy more dragon dildos.
Have I "backed out" of anything?

>>6658650
>Source?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower

>>6658354
>No bill. No producers.
Talk about paradigms
>muh patents! muh money!

>>6658687
Prove him wrong.
Give away an unlimited supply of energy to the world.
For free.
I'll wait.

>>6658688
Be patient. We had a window of opportunity to ease into the change during the early 1900s but that came and went. At this point it's going to take some rather unusual events if we are to ever follow through.

>>6658697
>We had a window of opportunity to ease into the change during the early 1900s but that came and went.
No we didn't.
First, we didn't have an unlimited supply of free energy to transmit.
Second, we didn't have a means of transmitting it.

>but that came and went.
Nothing has changed, nothing "went".
This is just as unfeasible today as it was 110 years ago,

>>6658704
We did. JP Morgan? JP Morgan.

>>6658341
I like how you didn't actually respond to anything he actually said. Why would you want to transmit energy all over the place? It's horribly inefficient and pointless.

>>6658471
How can you possibly be this ignorant? Provide something for free and people are bound to abuse it. It's human nature to take advantage of things like that.

>>6658389
The inefficiency of the transmission metho probably makes this more expensive then simply using wires.

>>6658711
>Why would you want to transmit energy all over the place? It's horribly inefficient and pointless.

God damn stop fucking spewing out blatant bullshit already. Fucking post numbers or fuck off.

>>6658712
see
>>6658499

How exactly would people "abuse" something that is available in indefinite amounts? Are they just gonna leave their lights on and use their electrical appliances until they burn out?

Elaborate.

>>6658728
>The inefficiency of the transmission metho probably makes this more expensive then simply using wires.

Again, post numbers to back up your claims or fuck off. I bet you don't even know what efficiency is or how to measure it.

God damn you people are fucking retarded. You're either trolls or NSA government dis-info trolls. Fuck off and die.

There is already another project to create solar power in the desert zone: http://www.desertec.org/

This could easily power the world.

I think the transmission loss due to this method was supposed to be notably low, which is part of the whole point. As stated by others, conventional grid transmission incurs costs of 20-30% This, "Attenuation constant equal to 10-9 means that wave amplitude will decrease by 1-e-x10^(-9)=2% along all the length of way «x» of wave from opposite point of globe being about 20000km."
Source: http://getmission.ru/index.php/en/latest-news/27-examining-working-principle-of-tesla-tower


>>6658437
The Pyramid is a different technology: it's a passive pump. Have a look at http://www.gizapyramid.com/cadman4.htm

They built a replica of the Great Pyramid with its Queen's Chamber, and it works as a pump also. So that is proven technology already, and, as you said, clean.

>>6658484
/x/ is the limited box. Everyone else on the outside actually has intelligence and working brains. Back to the sandbox, retard.

>>6658736
Also, I put my money down for both projects. There should definitely be public funding for this though: 800k should be nothing for such a potentially game-changing project.

Same with DESERTEC. But politicians are morons and the business sector does not have advancement of mankind or general kindness at heart.

>>6658734
Here you go, fucker:
http://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/technology/transfer-efficiency.html

Now please eat a dick or post your own sources. you can say "hurr post your sources, we're r your numbers" and then not back up your own argument.

>we are still using 19th century physics

>>6658734
Wow buddy, why don't you fucking look it up?

http://ecoupled.com/system/files/pdf/eCoupled_UnderstandingWirelessPower_WhitePaper.pdf

Isn't it odd that we spend all this money hooking up wires for power, yet we use wireless transmission for radio? That's because for radio, the proportion of energy received becomes critical only if it is too low for the signal to be distinguished from the background noise. When you transmit energy, the proportion of energy received is EVERYTHING, and the bigger the coils and longer the distance between them, the more awful the efficiency gets. The only way to wirelessly transmit energy at an efficiency comparable to wired is to have the coils touching.

>>6658750
Way to spend one minute on Google and post the first link you came across you fucktard. I bet you haven't even read the article you fucking posted you fucking idiot.

>Now please eat a dick or post your own sources

I don't have to post shit. I'm not the one making stupid fucking claims and talking shit with nothing to back it up like you, you fucking faggot double nigger.

Suck a dick you fucking fat piece of fucking shit and go collect your NSA check so you buy another fleshlight and jack off to Chinese cartoons with your Cheeto covered 4 inch dick.

Fucking faggot nigger.

>>6658734
>How exactly would people "abuse" something that is available in indefinite amounts? Are they just gonna leave their lights on and use their electrical appliances until they burn out?
Indefinite amounts? Where is all this energy coming from asshole? Do you think solar panels and hydroelectric damns produce unlimited energy flow?

>>6658764
Tesla believed he could tap into the vast amounts of reserve energy accumulated in the fucking sky thanks to the sun you fucker.

>>6658767
he also believed he had made an earthquake machine.

>>6658767
Yes and who is trying to do that, retard? No one, because it doesn't make sense. The project we are talking about here is a giant wireless energy transmitter. It has nothing to do with pulling energy out of the sky, you fucking quack. Back to /x/.

>>6658769
He also believed he could create a brush-less electric motor and was ridiculed for trying to make a perpetual motion machine but it turns out his shit worked.

>>6658767
Not the sun you disinformed piece of shit. The energy density of the vacuum. Space itself.
>muh renormalization!

>>6658763
Wow, awesome response. Trying to transmit energy at distances above the length of the coil is horribly inefficient and will give you nothing. Which is easier, wiring the world or making coils larger than the earth? Anyone with basic sense (i.e. anyone who isn't a slobbering Tesla fanboy) will realize why we don't transmit energy.

>>6658773
Where's the perpetual motion machine?

>>6658771
The fucking people trying to build the damn thing want to experiment with different frequencies to match the resonant frequency of the earth to see if Tesla war right or not.

>>6658780
>Trying to transmit energy at distances above the length of the coil is horribly inefficient and will give you nothing

OK well then fucking post exactly how efficient or inefficient the fucking system is compared to conventional systems you fucktard. I want numbers and sources.

>making coils larger than the earth

What the fuck are you even talking about? How fucking stupid can you be?

Just fuck off already you piece of shit. Is your shift not over yet or what? Fucking faggot.

>>6658783
It's called the "AC Induction Motor." You're probably within a few feet of one right now.

>>6658794
>OK well then fucking post exactly how efficient or inefficient the fucking system is compared to conventional systems you fucktard. I want numbers and sources.
See pic. The kickstarter states they are suing a 20m coil. That would transmit at 30% efficiency 20m. Away. 100m away would give yuo less than 0.01% efficiency. If you wanted more than 30% efficiency and transmission across the globe you would need two coils larger than the Earth itself.

>>6658795
Induction motors aren't perpetual motion machines you retarded quack.

>this thread
Epitome of our species' emotionality

>>6658826
>Our species
Don't lump me in with you faggots, human.

>>6658832
>faggots
This is exactly what I mean. As a species we are are literally a 14 year old in terms of consciousness.

>>6658805
This isn't an induction system, though, is it? It's more using the earth and the ionosphere as a dielectric.

>>6658435
>>How about NOT HAVING TO USE WIRES. Is that a good reason? Holy fuck, that's like the whole point of this shit.
>And what's the advantage of that?

umm... electric cars?
>tfw no battery weight and unlimited mileage

>>6658522
>There are still high equipment costs with the Tesla system.
but not as high
>>6658522
>The Schumann cavity isn't a perfect waveguide, there would be losses as some energy radiated out into space, or was absorbed by the Earth.

In reality, the biggest part of the planet surface is covered by the fine electrolyte (salty oceanic water), i.e. given evaluation is upper bound while real attenuation constant will be lower.

Attenuation constant equal to 10-9 means that wave amplitude will decrease by 1-e-x10^(-9)=2% along all the length of way «x» of wave from opposite point of globe being about 20000km.

98% efficiency transmitting power to the opposite side of the globe

>>6658905
>umm... electric cars?
yeah, i love losing all engine power every time i go through a tunnel

>>6658905
Not electric cars, but you eliminate the possibility of a monopoly on the copper and wire industry.

Looking at you, JP Morgan.

>>6658920
>yeah, i love losing all engine power every time i go through a tunnel

are you serious?
this is a mighty feeble attempt at trolling anon, you should learn to do better.

with a 98% or better transmission efficiency Tesla's method has wires beat.
by placing large solar and wind farms in the major deserts of the world the amount of energy that can be captured from renewable sources is quite large.
the combination of the technologies will be a huge improvement fin supplying mankind's need for electrical power.

the physics behind Tesla's method is proven but not widely known.

It is better for the environment than oil and coal and will greatly benefit the poor people in the world. Is that why you hate it so much anon?

>>6658977
>Looking at you, JP Morgan.

Would you stop with this retarded shit.

>>6658763
hemad.jpg

>>6658763
>I'm not the one making stupid fucking claims
Yes.
You are.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

>>6658988
Don't tell me you don't know he shut Tesla down, burnt his lab and continues to defame him to this very day because of that fact.

>>6658887
Yeah but even if you had a Q-factor in the hundreds, you would still be getting horrible efficiency at this scale. In reality the coils aren't going to be the same size.

>>6659048
>Yeah but even if you had a Q-factor in the hundreds, you would still be getting horrible efficiency at this scale

you just proved your ignorance of this subject.

why do you hate this idea so much?

>>6658192
EE here, it wont work.
>>>/x/

>>6658381

Not to mention practically unreadable.

>>6658763
Holy shit you are butthurt. At this point you're either a full blown troll or functionally retarded.
That source gives a general trend for the efficiency of wireless power transfer as a function of distance! which unless I'm mistaken is what was being discussed.

In any case, you haven't given any sources or data to defend your insane idea that globally available wireless power is an efficient and sustainable concept. And seeing as that's the topic of this thread, yes you do need to "post shit"

See you later, fucker

>>6659072
>EE here, it wont work.
bullshit
if you are really an EE then you can understand the information here
http://globalenergytransmission.com/index.php/en/latest-news/27-examining-working-principle-of-tesla-tower

if you can't take the time to learn by reading that then state WHY you believe it won't work

>>6659078
>sources or data to defend your insane idea that globally available wireless power is an efficient and sustainable concept

???
see
>http://globalenergytransmission.com/index.php/en/latest-news/27-examining-working-principle-of-tesla-tower

>>6658982
>with a 98% or better transmission efficiency Tesla's method has wires beat.
It would if it worked.
The way you say it might.
But it doesn't.
Meanwhile, copper has been working since Ben Franklin.

>>6658982
>with a 98% or better transmission efficiency Tesla's method has wires beat.
transmission efficiency is the upper bound on transmission to a well-placed receiver, not the lower bound describing a poorly placed receiver, dumbo

>>6659010
/x/ please

>>6658328
People usually believe whatever a talking head tells them.

>>6659115
>But it doesn't.
yes it does
we can argue like that all day, and you will still be wrong, learn some higher level physics and the modes of propagation of EM waves.
realize that we do live inside a waveguide called the Schumann cavity.

>>6659118
the lower bound is always zero
>implying people will deliberately use shitty equipment

>>6659138
Can't stress THIS enough

>>6659138
>People usually believe whatever a talking head tells them.

this is an unfortunate truth anon

when two EEs and along with a PhD high energy physicist with experience in industry tell you something you might want to listen


many talking heads have denigrated Tesla's work for over 100 years now, and few have ever truly understood it. Tesla's claims and experiments have been deliberately maligned by people who believe the simplified formula they learned in school are the be-all and end-all of the subject, when they do not realize just how simplified the information they were taught is. have you ever actually looked at Oliver Heaviside's work? the math is incredibly complex because he accounts for all the variables. when most engineering and physics formulas have the caveat "under most circumstances this factor is negligible" or some such. the interactions of EM waves in a transmission line was all Heaviside set out to explain and it took several hundred pages of equations when everything is accounted for.

propagation modes in a waveguide have some VERY interesting characteristics.
people say Tesla's idea can't work because the waves attenuate with distance too quickly. in fact ordinary radio waves being transverse have a spherical wavefront and attenuate with the square of the distance traveled. However Tesla's system uses a longitudinal mode that has a linear wavefront that attenuates in direct proportion to the distance.

the qualities of the waveguide we live in are fairly well known to NASA and several published papers back up Tesla's claims about the characteristics of the waveguide and it's propagation modes
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120000051.pdf

so b4 you go disbelieving a "talking head" find out what sources are used in the information

>>6659146
of course the lower bound is always zero

my point is that lots of situations cars are in, will bring the efficiency close to the lower bound

>>6659146
>yes it does
>we can argue like that all day

Actually, my point is that after extensive research and development followed by 100 years of sitting on a shelf, this technology is still unproven, without a single working example.

Once you have a working prototype, come to me with numbers.

>>6659090
The majority of this is fine, despite the broken english, but it relies on average a few shitty assumptions. Namely, that the Earth's ionosphere will behave for this transfer the same as it behaves for radio waves and reflect back the power. There is no way it can reflect an efficiently large portion of the transmission repeatedly (as it does with radio "hops"). and even if it could, the effects it could have on the atmosphere are unknown and likely pretty detrimental.

>>6659235
>when two EEs and along with a PhD high energy physicist with experience in industry tell you something you might want to listen

When thousands of EE's and PHDs tell YOU something, you might want to listen.


>However Tesla's system uses a longitudinal mode that has a linear wavefront that attenuates in direct proportion to the distance.
The Schumann cavity isn't a linear waveguide like a optic fiber. It doesn't send all EM in the same direction.
Sure, it traps radiation that would have gone up or down, but there's stil a circular wavefront, as waves travel north, south, east and west.

>>6659324
>When thousands of EE's and PHDs tell YOU something, you might want to listen.
I was educated and received my EE decades ago, my career in broadcasting specifically satellite uplinking taught me more than was covered in my classes at university.


>The Schumann cavity isn't a linear waveguide like a optic fiber.

no, it's a concentric spherical waveguide

>circular wavefront
I stand corrected, yes the wavefront is circular rather than linear, but the key point is it is NOT spherical. and the attenuation factor is NOT exponential.

The Tesla system uses the fact that we do live in a waveguide, just a very, very large one. the immense size means the wavelength for propagation in a longitudinal mode is very large, and the frequency very low (the Plekhanov project is 10Khz). only frequencies that are matched to the waveguide will travel in a "waveguide mode"

I've worked with waveguides and EM waves for many, many years anon, and if you believe what I say or not it does not matter because the physics works and is used every day.
if you know so much please explain in your own words just how a YIG circulator works and you might convince me you know something of the characteristics of propagation in a waveguide. because you are making yourself sound like a fool to anyone who does understand the physics involved

>>6658389
We are the universe