/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6642058
Any civilization capable of developing a warp drive understands multiculturalism destroys societies and keeps to themselves while just spying on everyone.

>>6642058
Warp drive and wormhole technology is deceptively simple to build with the hardware store items available when it is discovered and even easier to turn into WMDs.

maybe there's a reason we can't find them. Maybe they don't want to be found.

>>6642058
Intergalactic travel only happens from the black holes at the center of galaxies so nobody has a reason to go to the outskirts of a galaxy.

Once a civilization masters the sexbot, all technological progress plateaus and the world is ushered into a golden age of peace.

The Fermi paradox doesn't make sense. Switching the door should be 50% probability and not 66%.

>>6642076
>The Fermi paradox doesn't make sense. Switching the door should be 50% probability and not 66%.
uwotm8?

I think the solution is a mixture of quantum suicide and the anthropic principle.
The universe is actually very deadly and not suited for life, but there are multiple worlds and we are experiencing the ones where we dont get eradicated by cosmic rays etc.
So life is just so unlikely it doesnt even exist in most universes.

>>6642058
All the aliums are living inside pocket universes contained in blackholes.

>>6642058

The code of intergalactic species is to leave species who have not developed FTL travel alone so as not to mess with their development.

>>6642059
this actually made me kek, ...but... go back to /pol/.

>>6642058
The solution is that it almost impossible to communicate across interstellar and especially intergalactic distances by using light, both physically and temporally. If alien civilisations are doing it, they are doing it with only select worlds, not broadcasting blindly into space. So its no wonder that all we see or hear out there is noise.

As for visits. They very well may have, but if you have FTL travel and you find a civ like ours? You maybe give it some quiet advice to world leaders, and otherwise you leave it alone to develop until it is ready to leave the nest.

>>6642058
>Violating the Prime Directive
>crazy bad pleb status OP
Solved. GTFO

>>6642058
Maybe they managed to prove the existence of alternate dimensions. They would travel through dimensions rather than through space.

>>6642058
It's much easier to create and explore virtual worlds than to travel through space. It's also more interesting.

>>6642058
Space is fucking big
FTL travel is not possible

>>6642058

Speeds in excess of c are not possible for objects with any form of mass. Lifeforms do not have excessively long lifespans and thus cannot travel between planets as journeys are simply too long. Therefore, there is no possible form of communication with or travel to other life-bearing planets.

Every life bearing planet is isolated from another, and always will be.

Therefore the Fermi Paradox has no solution, because lifeforms on other planets cannot interact with each other.

We are stuck in this system, and we will be until our species dies out from lack of resources.

>FTL not possible
Maybe if we are incredibly lucky; with in a few million years an alien Von Nuemann probe will happen to drift by us and try and land to use our resources to replicate and move on. It would be part of a wave spreading our for endless millions of years autonomously. probably started by a species that could be extinct eons ago, or thousands of light years away and unable to communicate with the probes. This raises lots of interesting possibilities, could it have what we recognize as strong AI? Would it try and exterminate us?(unlikely).
In any case it would be very interesting but not that consequential for us as a species.

>>6642168
>FTL is possible
Keep in mind our electromagnetic sphere of expanding signals centred about Earth is only about 80ly across. I think there could be aliens ripping around all over the universe, possibly moving between "gates" or with warp bubbles - who knows at this point - but we simply haven't show up on anyones "radar" yet. even with FTL probes spreading out everywhere. The universe is simply so unbelievably large that even at warp 100 a species could only spread out so fast.
This hypothesis implies that intelligent life bearing planets that harbour a species capable of space exploration are at least a few hundred to a few thousand lightyears apart though.

>>6642145
The Fermi Paradox is about detecting alien life, not communicating with it. Also if some form of communication that we don't yet possess is in active use to explain it that implies unknown physics (or wormholes, in which case FTL travel is possible - there's no other known physics that could be used for large-scale [that of a world or multiple planets in a system] communication).

>>6642148
>Speeds in excess of c are not possible for objects with any form of mass. Lifeforms do not have excessively long lifespans and thus cannot travel between planets as journeys are simply too long. Therefore, there is no possible form of communication with or travel to other life-bearing planets.
You dumb fucker. If we were looking at our own star from another star we would know there is intelligent life here because for a star of our Sun's type the white-noise of AM/FM radio broadcasts and other wifi would be abnormal as all fuck. The Fermi Paradox is "why don't we see any life" not "why haven't aliums come down and anal probed me yet". You stupid stupid faggot get off /sci/.

>>6642168
>Maybe if we are incredibly lucky; with in a few million years an alien Von Nuemann probe will happen to drift by us and try and land to use our resources to replicate and move on. It would be part of a wave spreading our for endless millions of years autonomously. probably started by a species that could be extinct eons ago, or thousands of light years away and unable to communicate with the probes. This raises lots of interesting possibilities, could it have what we recognize as strong AI? Would it try and exterminate us?(unlikely).
>In any case it would be very interesting but not that consequential for us as a species.
yfw we are part of that probe's operational cycle to build more versions of itself

>>6642189
My mind as never been more shattered

>>6642058
I can't solve it,but i can fuck it up even more for you,even if the earth was atypical,wouldn't it be possible for different kinds of life to start and evolve differently?If there was a type of life living in a really hot planet and full of a gas that is not oxygen they would be like "Have you ever thought that if this planet didn't have the temperature of 450ºC and gas x there would be no life here?!"

>>6642216
Just about everyone has thought of that already, but the Fermi Paradox is already dealing with such a fucknormous number of potentially life-bearing worlds that multiplying be 10 doesn't actually change the paradox.

>>6642222
Dem quads

>>6642058
Have you ever thought that we might be protected because we are considered inferior and it would be too coward to attack or make deals with us?There are indigenous tribes today that have never been touched by the humans because the government prohibits it!What if we are the tribes in their eyes?

>>6642168
>They probably look like this

>>6642058
>Why haven't humans discovered extraterrestrial life?
Because all of our attempts have been incredibly futile.

>Why haven't ETs made themselves known to us, or why haven't they visited Earth?
They literally have no reason to. What could we possibly offer a space fairing species?

>>6642058
to them, we are no life forms. we are just a porous crusty wavy part of some watery planet.

I think, given the amount of planets we're finding now, that aren't even far away from us, that life is common in the universe. However, I think intelligence is quite the rare and very accidental occurrence.
If you look at how life evolved on Earth:
4.5B to 300M years = bacteria and fish
300M-250M = ozone layer created, beginning to outside water (trees, insects, lizards)
Mass Extinction
Dinosaurs until 65M years, dumb as fuck
Meteor into mammals as much dumb as before.
4M years ago Africa splits. Jungle becomes savanna. Chimps has to walk. Free hands can do stuff. Brain explodes.
We're having trouble finding evidence of ourselves a few thousand years ago. We don't even know if we will survive the next millennium.
So If an Alien intelligent race existed a million years ago, or in the future and they looked at Earth, It's very likely that they'd see nothing.

>>6642058
Fermi's Paradox was kind of answered since we HAVE recieved a signal from an alien civilization:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

The aluims saw our shitty xenophobic alien invasion movies and were offended.

There is no justification for a high estimate on the number of alien civilisations in the first place, so there is no paradox.

Also, what we see on Earth suggests that it takes a very long time for complex multicellular life to evolve (let alone intelligent life), so pretty much all life-bearing planets would experience extinction events before they get as far as we have.

>>6642349
Why do aliens say "Ayy lmao"?

>>6642351
It's either someone from /x/ trying to push a shitty unfunny meme, some viral marketing campaign yet to reveal itself or a psychology student writing a paper.

>>6642058
Oh I get it, aliens helped chimps develop into humans.

>>6642349
ayy lmao

The aliens are too busy intercepting our broadcasts and jacking off to our porn that they don't want to disrupt us.

>all human-like civilizations were born at the same time with equal amount of intelligence and technological progression
>there are demigods hidden in space, keeping the peace of the universe
>said demigods will make an appearance on the planet with technology it thinks will be destructive on the universe
>it will take thousands or millions of years for this to happen

that's right fuck you guys. "possible" solutions are retarded when we only know shit about universe, let alone our planet.

>>6642058
Black holes are actually portals to a smaller, non-expanding universe full of way more resources. The more advanced civilizations have all eventually found this portal and moved into the universe where they have a never-ending parties in their utopias. It's a win/win, because they are free from less advanced civs who will go to war with them. We just happen to be rising as a new species in a currently empty part of this universe, because the more advanced civilizations around here already left.

>>6642058
>mfw when this thread
Just let the poor space animals be

>>6642058
It is a megalithic civilization unknown found in Okayama that have not been reported yet in the Japanese media. The stone statue except with a wing, I do not know whether the structure which was made what it means.
Or it could be made to mimic the equipment of alien Japanese ancient witnessed. It may be the ruins of the cargo cult, the world's largest in the world's oldest.

>>6642622
what

>>6642629
'Man guarding a virgin more than 30 years Do not see this picture.'
I do it says so.

Neurological agents and their analogues in this universe inevitably adopt highly paranoid strategies on the basis of the consideration that the survival of their species is the overriding priority and that such consideration is given a far higher weight than any possible benefit from interspecies communication with intelligent lifeforms. In accordance with this paranoid stratagem, the more advanced species commits genocide upon "contact" after some sort of interim period of observation. More "humane" species, in our sense, might opt to forcefully maintain the entire alien population in simulations 'till biological death.

As an auxiliary to "why would an intelligent species wipe out another inferior intelligent species", there might be a fear of an inferior species creating hyper evolving "machines" that can simulate neurological agents and their calculations without "being" them. Proverbial philosophical zombies given mechanical form. Neurology and supporting systems are different from computers and their supporting systems. So yeah, I don't think the Turing test is really valid for determining whether a "machine" is like a "human" because it seems far too idealistic contra to the complexity of animal phenomenology.

>>6642058
I have always thought that the assumption that extraterrestrials must be more advanced than we are could very well be flawed. What if we are the most technologically advanced civilization?

We can't detect them, they can't detect us, and interstellar travel/colonization is a pipe dream.

>>6642894

pipe dream this
*unzips katana made by trained katana masters who quenched the blade with their sugoi sepukku blood*

I've read something somewhere about how the hard facts of interstellar travel might lead alien civilizations to mostly withdraw into "inner" or simulated/virtual spaces. Which wouldn't be that bad if combined with the ability for something like prolonged or indefinite longevity. Imagine being able to train in a simulated space for a million years before doing stuff in the "real" world. It might be cool.

Just as a random thought, a danger to this scenario might be that the real world could be not stimulating enough. In which case such a "strategic retreat" into inner space might be a permanent migration. "real world" migration might be a "duty" imposed on a fraction of the citizenry.

>>6642058
ayy lmao

Because they probably live as microscopic nano machines that aren't easily detected.

>>6642912

That's not fair.

We can't fug microscopic nano machines.

D:

>>6642907

>>6642883
>The most advanced species in the galaxy
>We, as a species, just spent nearly a billion dollars on a shitty transformers movie

The galaxy is doomed.

>>6642058
>Fermi Paradox
What if there's no way to quickly travel across the universe and rare civilizations, no matter how developed they are, cannot contact each other due to the distance?

>>6642876
>muh special meatflake

>>6643033

Well paranoid strategies are not just about "special meatflak"ism but are, albeit tautologically, strategies weighted by a more paranoid orientation towards the universe. Which for all we know could be a more "proper" orientation than more utopian presentations.

I mean are you going to put your entire species, your entire culture, your entire world at any sort of risk just because you want to play nice?

>>6643053

Unless you're referring to the Turing test in which case I insist I'm fucking right and you bitches are wrong. Silicon AND/OR gates are not the same as the entire complex of organic and chemical and electrical structures which give rise to something like a consciousness.

I can buy organic brain utilizing machines as info processing slave
I can buy machines simulating organic brains without actually "thinking" like organic brains.
I can't buy machines in the same mold as modern machines actually "thinking" like organic brains. You might have all the spectacle and production that a thinking brain produces but I'd be willing to anticipate at a far lower efficiency (in relation to simulating consciousness at a precise level) and without an actual "awakening" of the machine from a bunch of circuits routing electricity through logic gates.

from wikipedia:
>nonsense crap about interstellar life existing (probably legit in the hypothetical sense)
>According to this line of thinking, the Earth should already have been colonized, or at least visited.

But the last conclusion doesn't follow. If the rate of colonization is lower than the rate at which stars form, then there exists a probability that certain stars will never be visited.

There are many variables in-between life and interstellar space travel.
Does intelligence / machine building have an evolutionary advantage on their word?
If so how are their resources divided?
Does any one group hold the bulk of the resources long enough to develop space flight?
Is space travel seen as advantages to those controlling the resources?
Does the average lifespan allow interplanetary travel in a single generation?

Because we are use to how things work on earth we tend to think that is how it will work elsewhere. If the Earth's resources were evenly distributed organizing enough people to pool their resources for the single gaol of interstellar travel would be near impossible.

>>6642076
http://caprid.homestead.com/files/willalien.jpg

>>6643073
Hi, el Mao.

>>6642907
Basically the backstory of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reality_Bug but not because of the "realities of space travel" theory.

>>6642622
>>6642641
WARNING: reading these comments will make you lose IQ points.

>>6643027
You'd be able to detect radio transmissions even without being able to understand them because they would change the output of their system's star to be abnormal for the type of star. That level of detection was able to be done decades ago and we still haven't spotted anything noteworthy.

>>6643057
>Silicon AND/OR gates are not the same as the entire complex of organic and chemical and electrical structures which give rise to something like a consciousness.
As someone that's studied ANNs a good deal I agree - but it doesn't mean you can't simulate the biochemical processes of the brain in transistor logic - it just rapes your clockspeed to do so.

>>6643058
The logic behind it is that even with "slow" interstellar transport (like we could feasibly do now with things like blows up nukes in succession behind a colony ship to get to a nearby star in 100 years) and a mere 2 colony ships from each system after a reasonable numbers of years to reestablish the colony into a world about our current size given our growth rate it would only take about 10-20 million years to colonize the entire galaxy. The universe is billions of years old and there are stars that were exactly like our sun billions of years ago so if life is a common occurance the entire universe would likely be colonized by now.

>>6643099
So its making the assumption that said society would grow exponentially fast? Haven't they looked at history, or even played any civilisation building games?

>>6643102
No, it's saying that if the population growth rate follows our own the entire galaxy would be full in 10-20 million years and there were stars identical to our own billions of years ago. That 10-20 millions years gets divided by the numbers of total civilizations as well so based on what we see as potentially habitable systems with stars like our own (only billions of years older) you'd be talking about the galaxy being full billions of years ago.

We are currently the most advanced civilisation; it is our job to colonise space and contact the aliens. Eldest sibling duty.