/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6629674
Basically, people go "oh shit is that me" and the more unbalanced ones ("weaker") can't brush off the thought. Vicious cycle.

>Think I'm usually the smartest person in the room at any given moment
>Hear about the Dunning-Kruger effect
>"OH SHIT THATS ME"
>See the second part
>"MAYBE THATS ME"

Cute feet, too bad they're on a subhuman

It sounds like an attempt for them to pull the ladder up behind them tbh.

>"I'm smart"
>"No you're not because of this effect I just invented".

you forgot the social factor

you can be a genius but get 'held-back' because of other people's superiority complexes (conflicts)

>The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras.

THIS is who they mean. If you're not this dumb they're not talking about you.

They're talking about literal retards doing retarded shit and thinking it was a smart idea.

>>6629674
The Dunning-Kruger effect is very real. When you reach a high level of expertise in some area you will notice this phenomenon whenever addressing unskilled and semi skilled individuals.
The effect is most apparent when observing the unskilled 'idea guy' articulating himself compared to a skillfull but otherwise green individual.

The inability of the former to recognize the difficulty in the details of their proposition leads to an almost megalomaniac overconfidence sometimes.

So how do you avoid this effect /sci/? I used to think I was just average and stupid but then I started working in an office and it seems I'm a genius when you put me next to my colleagues.

But maybe I'm just THINKING I'm exceptional because of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

And it's not like you can even use position in the company as an objective measure, seeing as how who gets promoted in a company has little to do with merit.

>>6629674
>Have two phrases: over confidence, self doubt
>Invent new phrase for them: Dunning-Kruger
>...
>Profit

>>6629787
>So how do you avoid this effect /sci/?

By not worrying about whether or not you're smart (or other people are), and just always trying to learn more.

>>6629674
>So the person refereed to in part 2 has weak self confidence because he knows about part 1

That's not what it says. It has nothing to do with knowing about the effect. How could it, unless the people in the original study were time travelers? It's about skilled/knowledgeable/smart people assuming others are also skilled/knowledgeable/smart.

>>6629802
>i can't read

>>6629822
But you can't deny that part 1 can cause part 2 if the person has prior knowledge of the effect.

>Those persons to whom a skill or set of skills come easily may find themselves with weak self-confidence, as they may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding.

Oh boy this is me.

Used to think everyone could type at 100wpm. Used to think that everyone knew about computers. Used to think that everyone knew more about the world than the latest results of americas next top model.

>>6629674

Nah, it's more like people that are skilled in something can appreciate the difficulty it entails, and thus underestimate their ability at it.

>>6629837
But what if it REALLY IS a mundane task? And they think that it is a really hard task because they have read part 2. And now they act like part 1?

>>6629674
Oh, look, we're getting psychotherapy.

>>6629824
>no u

The DK effect is a necessary part of both learning and understanding. It is part of the Utilization phase of learning, as well as the Reinforcement phase.

Human beings have a social need to teach in order to learn. After a toddler learns a new skill, they will want to show it to someone else, sometimes even teaching the person who taught them. Mature students develop their schema by relating their new found knowledge to prior experience, going so far as to make up stories to cement the concepts learned.
The willingness to opine on subjects not well known is part of the codification of the new skill or narrative into the psyche of the student.

>>6629843
>it's more like people that are skilled in something can appreciate the difficulty it entails

Which implies that if its mundane they'll appreciate it's mundane.

>second one
>have a habit of pretending i know more than i do to make up for my weak self confidence
>being the second one makes me the first one too.

>>6629787
By remember that Impostor Syndrome is also a thing. Feeling like you're shitty doesn't guarantee you're good, feeling good doesn't guarantee you're shitty.

Ask for feedback from people who actually know what they're doing. And don't worry too much about where you're at; however good you are, try to improve.

>>6629830
Can you explain the difference in Poulantzas' and Foucault's interpretation of the State?
Can you explain how Yeats' childhood caused his symbolistic tendencies?
Can you outline the historical influence of the b5 interval, and the reasons for its rose to prominence?
Can you explain how innocence is prevalent in Picasso's 'Guernica'?

>>6629674
>Unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude."

If you've ever debated a religious fundamentalist you'll know that it's absolutely true

>>6629881
Poulantzas saw national conflicts as a way to distract from economic conflicts and wasn't obsessed with unbuilt prisons.

Yeats grew up in Ireland and all mick writers are discursive, abstruse motherfuckers.

b5 sounds good. No idea when it became prominent or why it wasn't sooner.

Animals, women, and children are shown as the main victims because they are more obviously innocent of violence than male figures would be. Picasso portrayed the Spaniards getting bombed as innocent because it's a polemical piece against the bombing and also because they were.

Am I good at liberal arts now?

>>6629902
>debating religious fundamentalists
are you 13 years old?

>>6629914
Yes, you're good at making up arguments that seem well founded but aren't actually grounded in reality and can't be well proven or disproven either way.

The real criteria for being right in liberal arts is if the professor agrees, or when you're a professor, if the lib arts academic community is flattered by your idea.

Now go back to >>/lit/ faggot.

>>6629902
>debated a religious fundamentalist

Dude.
I mean...
Dude...
No, it is stupid to discuss religion with anyone religious, especially a fundamentalist. No matter how good you are at debating, it is still like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good you are, it will just flip all the pieces and then shit on the chessboard. It is a worthless effort.

>>6629915
He has the emotional intelligence of one, like all fedoras.

So according to the dunning-kruger effect, if people who fit descriptions 1 and 2 read about the dunning-kruger effect, which one would they feel better describes them?

>>6629914
Not only did you fail to answer two of them, you also demonstrated an inability to actually understand what was being asked of you, answering different questions. I'll let you have another go if you want.

>>6629915
>>6629926
>>6629927
It's addictive

>>6629923
why don't you jack off to the scientific method's mom and see if that fulfils you
#rekt

>>6629930
I remember it being so when I was 13. Which is why I asked if you were 13. Are you 13?

You don't even realise why it's addictive, do you? It's addictive because you're so insecure you have to pick the easiest targets to stroke your intellectual semi with for fear of coming across people with arguments you can't just dismiss straightaway. Most of these fundies have grown up all their lives with very little exposure to any other worldview, sometimes being told that they will literally burn for eternity if they don't subscribe to what they're being told, and you think it's cool that you've got a basic understanding of evolution so you're a better person than them? Stop it man. It's low. Debating religious people is for science fans.

I wish they had told us about the Dunning-Kruger effect in 4th grade or something so I could have known about it sooner. When I was an undergraduate, I thought I was literally the smartest person in the world (also I thought I was the best looking person in the world since most people at my university were of below average attractiveness). Then I started a PhD in physics and found out that a lot of other people are just as smart and smarter than me. It's probably better this way because I had such an inflated ego as an undergrad.

>>6629902
Very true, my case of the DK effect was nowhere near as bad as religious fundamentalists. Also true for people who are fanatical about a particular political ideology.

>>6629934
*flips burger*

>>6629976
you know everyone else in science is educated in the humanities as a hobby right? It's only people on /sci/ that don't have time to better themselves because they're busy, er, posting on /sci/.

>>6629981
Dungeons and Dragons and masturbation are more common hobbies than the humanities for scientists, and far more productive.

>YOU DON'T UNDERSTAAAAAND
>YOU'RE MISSING THE POOOIIINT
>RACIST
Standard burger flipper argument

>>6629674
SAUCE PLEASE

>>6629989
Sorry, but you're the only person in this thread who masturbates to Dungeons and Dragons manuals. Please leave the rest of us to our real books.

>>6629989
why hate the humanities? you seem scarred by particular incidences and particular people (though I suspect these are secondhand). you revert to the burger flipper thing like it's relevant to me. I just like reading in my spare time. what's your quarrel? ever seen 'waiting for godot'?

>>6630001
...says the person that faps to cuckold fantasies and feminist laws that will never come true.

Because even feminists want a man with balls.

>>6629780
>if only I could rule the world everything would be alright

so many people think this

>>6630001
*posted from McDonald's wifi*
>>6630003
A long history of seeing people in the humanities try to claim their ideas overrule scientific knowledge. None of these people had jobs in academia. All of them referred to their humanities degrees. Most of them were in food service or retail, or they "blog" for a living.

>>6630003
They get you nothing. To be honest, they're a reason you WON'T find employment.

You're educated in the thing that destroys the workplace.

>>6630005
lol it does make me chuckle that people from /pol/ openly admit they have no interest in reading or go outside and don't realise this might compromise their 'objective reality picture'. you seem troubled sport. did an attractive dunce steal your girl after talking about ulysses?

>>6630010
This.

I'm guessing many people ITT either don't have jobs (humanities majors), or haven't had to work with humanities majors.

>>6630011
>bla bla bla

Cry Hard 3: Cryharder, faggot.

Spewing pussyhurts from your mangina is a good reason that employers WON'T hire you.

>>6630011
>GO BACK TO /POL/!
>RAAAAACIIIIST
>SEXIIIISSST
>YOU NEED TO READ MOREEEEE BUT ONLY THINGS I APPROVE OF
>CHECK YOUR PRIVILEEEGGEEE
>YOU'RE RAPING ME RIGHT NOW

>>6630011
Muh dik!

>>6630008
so you have an issue with the people? you're a bit annoyed that guy didn't quite get what you meant and talked in a slightly dualistic fashion, so you've decided to hate an intrinsic property of humanity, aka the analysis of humanity?
>>6630010
it's fun. it's interesting. I'm not advocating doing an English degree, you'd get converted by those pinko big nosed profs! Goodness no. All I'm saying is that it's a pastime I enjoy and would recommend other people give a go.

>>6629830
>>6629881

dungeon both of you.

10 minutes

>>6630011
10:1 odds that both responses to you are the same buttmad /pol/ack, desperately refreshing the page.

>>6630014
you haven't said anything there that's relevant to my posts friend. Maybe youre mixing me up with an invented personality you once had an argument with on /pol/?
>>6630015
You too friend. What was the last book you read? I'm just curious.

You guys know I don't have a humanities degree right? Why would I be on /sci/ otherwise?

>>6630020
>it's fun. it's interesting.

...it's why you work at McDonalds.

Seriously, it's "fun and easy" because you don't have to think hard.

I wouldn't even hire a lazy ass piece of shit like you at McDs, no matter HOW desperate I was, because your high grade rampant faggotry would upset the workplace.

>>6630027
...says the obvious samefag.

>>6630020
so you have an issue with people that make fun of the humanities? you're a bit annoyed that that they didn't quite get what you mean and talked in a clear and concrete fashion, so you've decided to hate an intrinsic property of intelligent people, the ability to discern bullshit, aka science?
it's fun, it's interesting. I'm not advocating doing a Physics degree, you'd get converted by those evil subconsciously racist privileged white men! Goodness no. I'm just saying that it's a pastime I enjoy and would recommend other people give a go.

it's always lulzy when humanities majors come on /sci/ and get rekt

>NO GUYS I DON'T STUDY THIS
>ITS JUST A HOBBY!

>>6630033
I don't work at McDonald's. I'm at university, studying not humanities. I didn't say it was hard. It's becoming increasingly apparent that you are taking out a deep hatred of something (or someone) on myself, or else why would you keep making so many nonsensical points?

>>6630039
>studying not humanities.

##selfrekt

>>6630037
There are no humanities majors in this thread. Calm your tits.

>>6630035
You silly billy! I even called the guy a 'dunce' so it would be obvious that I acknowledge that humanities majors are largely uninteresting people.

>>6630039
I didn't know there is a major called Not Humanities! Very interesting, tell us more about what you study!

>>6630042
I'm struggling to understand what you mean pal

>>6630047
Oh it's good fun, we spend all day not dissecting paragraphs of prose, not reading structuralist evaluations of stuff, and not applying non rigourous rhetoric to questions without answers.

>>6630049
He means "I regularly read I Fucking Love Science and believe this makes me better than people who read novels when they aren't at the lab."

You want to major in a science? Do what people from other countries do to get hired in America: fill every class possible with lessons pertaining to what you want to study, even if you have to double-major.

Avoid the expensive worthless classes that won't get you hired. There are 90 million jobless Americans, and a lot of them DO have a better education than you do, and is looking for the same job you want.

>>6630053
That seems a little harsh. I wouldn't jump to such an insulting conclusion, I'm just trying to tall rationally with people about why I think reading books in your spare to me isn't actually a sin.

>>6630062
That's an impressive collection of typos. My bad.

>>6630062
I'm understanding you now. I actually read a lot of humanities shit myself, in order to better understand it and wreck humanities majors.

They get asshurt when you tell them you already know about the semi-obscure post-structuralist philosopher they namedrop.

>>6629674
Dunning-Kruger is real

stupid people lack the ability to realize they are stupid while the smarter you are the more aware of how little you actually know.

>>6629830
please keep pretending that your 100 wpm is high.

What do you know about computers?

>>6630104
He can install linux, he's a computer EXPERT!

>>6630107
>>6630104
Shhh. If you wait, he'll talk to himself some more.

>>6630104
>>6630107
Well, here's the thing: those abilities, which in our group signify a level of competence and status only slightly above "knows to put shoe on foot instead of shitting in it", are both shockingly scarce in the general population.

>>6630142
Being proud of being slightly above the plebeian masses is evidence that you are a plebeian.

>>6630146
You're wasting your time. If fools could be educated, they wouldn't be fools.

>>6630146
It's not about "being proud", it's about being aware.

There are all sorts of things we take for granted, levels of skill and knowledge we're EMBARASSED about and mock others in our group about, that are far above the ability of most people.

>>6629699
jej

>>6629914
>b5 sounds good blah blah

cmon fuck face you could've at least read the Wikipedia article and then pretended like you already knew about the compromises that took place in the development of standard intonation and their subsequent undoing with the rise of late romanticism and what ALL THAT had to do with the diminished fifth

I hope you're ashamed of yourself

This honestly just seems like universal law, I don't understand why there's such a fuss made over it. Unintelligent people think they're completely enlightened, whereas people who truly are intelligent are aware of just how little they know. Of course I believe there are exceptions, like arrogant assholes who also happen to be smart, and there are simple people who are very kind and aware of their shortcomings. Honestly it seems more like it's just the personality build of the person in question.

>>6629691
>that unfathomable irony that Kocoayello is the first person to respond to a thread on Dunning-Kruger

Any of you ever play DotA, LoL, or any similar MOBA?
If you have, you'll know this is an observable behavior.

>>6629674
>Is the Dunning–Kruger effect bullshit?
OP confirmed for moron.

Whenever I start to feel superior to others I come back to /sci/ read some of the more educated posts and immediately feel like a fucking retard.

>>6629674
>78 posts
>nobody talks about those delicious asian soles
What is the matter with you

>>6629830
But everyone can type at 100wpm.

And until you've somehow managed to fuck up your mbr beyond belief after deleting a partition without backing up anything and somehow managing to save it with google, you don't really know about computers.

>>6630031
>What was the last book you read? I'm just curious.
not even that guy

ignition, john d clark

>>6632727

I'd prefer to talk about dem delicious Asian DSLs.

>>6632717
/sci/ is a funny mix of 14-year-olds, schizophrenics, and PhD students.

>>6630006
We even have a board dedicated to these kinds of people.

>>6629814
People like to know if they're getting better or not. One of the best ways to do this is to compare one's progress with other people. It really can't be helped most of the time.

>>6629837
You're assuming everyone is perfectly rational and reasonable. That's false. The key phrase is "illusory superiority". Many incompetent people are delusional. They need to create lies to sustain their self-confidence.

>>6629754
>>6630103

That reminds me of my friend. He was very bad academically and unskilled in almost everything yet he thought he was the best in making household and business decisions despite having no track record. In reality, he was completely retarded at everything except video games.

He was stupid beyond belief. Most glaring example of this was he had no idea that a completely airtight environment is fatal from the lack of fresh oxygen and insisted all windows be closed tight 24/7 to prevent burglary. He made a lot of assumptions and didn't even bother to double check his own erroneous assumptions when it's a simple google search away. In the cases where he does use information from the internet, he thought it made him as competent as people with actual experience.

His thinking was also very rigid and inflexible. He's very routine oriented and had no conception of substiting one tool for another. He thought anyone deviating from his routine was stupidity on their own part. It had never occurred to him, despite his many mistakes and problems, that he was stupid. He only admitted that he was immature.

The DK effect is very real.

>>6632727
I'm not a feet fetishist, what makes a good foot?

>>6632860
>He was stupid beyond belief. Most glaring example of this was he had no idea that a completely airtight environment is fatal from the lack of fresh oxygen and insisted all windows be closed tight 24/7 to prevent burglary.
A house is not air tight simply because you close the windows, it's not even close.

>>6632860

>Most glaring example of this was he had no idea that a completely airtight environment is fatal from the lack of fresh oxygen and insisted all windows be closed tight 24/7 to prevent burglary.

a house with all the windows closed is not a completely airtight environment you fucking spanner

People are fucking stupid. and the MOST fucked up thing about that fact is: THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW IT. so they can not get better.

>>6632967
Thank god your angst is here to save us, Mr. Superiority.

>>6629674
>self forfilling

>people saying, 'yes this describes me'

Surely, though, this is just a phenomenon observable in most people in very specific aspects of life or activity. Not a blanket term for certain individuals who fit into one or the other.

Unless I've misunderstood it, this is the first I've ever read about the Dunning-Kruger effect

Being wrong is treated like a bad thing in human society, when in fact the opposite is true. Being wrong is a great opportunity to learn and become smarter. But you can't teach someone who knows everything. The kruger effect has Infected the whole of humanity. Far beyond the small scale of gaming. It is only getting stronger. Idiocracy is here.

>>6631288
>be playing planetside

>8.2 k/d ratio no hacks no vehicles all natty

>get squad invite

>squad is run unprofessionally and incompetent but I guess I will pull them

>carry squad conquesting base to base saving there ass form revers vannu riders infiltrators

>we run into a platoon sized force

>I fight as hard as i can taking down groups of 2-3 at a time by myself

>me and the sqaud leader plan to rush capture point out of desperation

>rush in there are 8 guys in there vs just us two

>I take down 2 but have to pull back again, I can beat them if ii use guerrilla tactics

>squad leader stands like a tard and dies

"OMG you fucking coward piece of shit, why are all my teammates idiots"

>rage kills me and quits

this is normal behavior of average gamers

I have an anecdote from studying Japanese

It's purely self-study so I don't have very many people around to compare myself to. My self-reported skill level in Japanese would have been "high intermediate to advanced" a year ago. Now, I have more than double the vocabulary I did then, have read actual Japanese novels and would self report my Japanese as "low intermediate to intermediate".

You can't accurately judge your own progress, especially not at the start. Without knowing what you don't know, you can't recognize how much you don't know.

>>6629674
>is so scared that's him that he doesn't do anything about his skills.
or he decides to improve himself since he thinks he's shit

>>6632860
>lack of fresh oxygen
>fresh oxygen
>fresh
Like, you open the window and, like, the oxygen will go outside and, you know, just fresh up a lil' and you can, like, breathe again

>>6629706
but it's true. Case in point: you.