/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6614912
Because us vs them mentality

>>6614912

People are "stupid" because they have strong emotional and social connections with strong ideologues whether they be parents or some other authority figure.

There's no necessity for a consistent mental model in the sense of valid and invalid as you attest to. You can be a crazy wacko citizen of Saturn and still be a hard working consumer. Or as I should say, humans aren't necessarily systems for finding consistent models of reality. They're just systems with all the individual eccentricities and selective mechanisms implied.

You get to a certain age when you realize how little "control" you have other than over yourself and you just laugh at that shit.

>>6614912
The Flat Earth Theory is a Theory too, I guess that makes it true too!

I consider myself fortunate in that I never meet this kind of person.

Well, apart from on this board, but I know they're all just trolls.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/forumdisplay.php?s=df303269b0536c26e594bfc383c53b16&f=20
Just putting this here
justthink that its a troll

>>6614951
No, it's a badly formulated hypothesis.

>>6614912
It's worth pointing out that we don't actually know what gravity is or how it works, the "graviton" remains hypothetical and there are several competing models like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_gravity . We don't even know if G is a constant across the universe.

>>6614967
Yeah the whole site is a trolling parody, they had people guessing they might be legit fundies for a little while in the early days but they make it pretty obvious now.

This whole evolution vs. creationism debate only seems to be a thing in the USA, I've never heard of anyone from a different country talk about it, certainly not my country.
It really seems weird to me that people argue against evolution, where we can see it LIVE with viruses and bacteria within a few divisions. Just try putting Polio in HeLa cells and waiting a few days, it's crazy.

>>6615096
Most creationists dealt with that one by accepting that "micro-evolution" as they call it occurs, but still claiming that large-scale morphological changes are impossible.

>>6615134
Wow, this actually makes me realize I am completely unschooled the opinions of those "creationalists". If they accept that then they are accepting random changes in DNA and that the changes leading to better survival are the ones that survive (I assume they also accept this for "micro-evolution" in man, such as somatic hypermutation of B cells).

So is there actually any practical mechanism of evolution they don't agree with, or do they just dismiss it as a whole?

>>6614912
When I was young my grandfather told me that 99% of the people are idiots.
The trick to winning at life is to expect and use their stupidity, rather than be annoyed by it.

>tfw justifying Jewish stereotypes

>>6615148
Their biggest argument against it is usually a young Earth argument. There simply hasn't been enough time for large scale evolution.

>>6614912

Back in high school my biology teacher insisted that Evolution was false.
She claimed that she was being forced to teach it by the gubmint and any kids who didn't want to learn about it because of their mental illness (i.e. cult membership) were excused.
She HATED me because I was an edgy teen atheist and would call her out on her nonsense.

She claimed that evolution was impossible because, in her words, "Evolution is like saying that if I take this textbook, and put it in a blender, and then throw all the pieces up into the air, it will 'magically' fall down and reform perfectly into the book. It just doesn't make sense! You can't just put a bunch of atoms together, zap them with electricity and expect it to form a human being!"

I gave up all hope after that one, btw.
Why fucking bother.

>>6615153
>young Earth
I... Is that actually a thing?
Sure there can be arguements about the age of the earth, but any undergraduate-level kinetics class should be enough to teach you to calculate by yourself that the Earth is old as fuck

>>6615159
I don't think you understand. You're probably non-American, and thus are uninitiated in Creationist arguments. Go look up some videos on youtube of 'debates'. As a general guideline, most Creationists have little to none experience or interest in science.

>>6614912
>Why are people still SO FUCKING STUPID?!?!
because they're american

I'm going to be done reading this soon.

Man shit is so cool. Our elbows bend back, and our knees bend forward only because that's what best fit the pattern swimming fish to become more awesome walking fish. And our rib cage exists because we wouldn't be able to breath if we lied down like I bet a bunch of fucking stupid extinct lizards did. And we have a jaw and rhythmic respiration and heartbeat because fish pump when they swam to optimize some shit.

I'm the genius son of a "retarded fish frog thing!". NEAT!

>>6614912
cause America

>>6615219
Many of those things are also painful anatomical truths when dealing with trauma.

>>6614912
>>6615155

>talking to my older sister
>she says that ghosts are real
>so is mind-reading
>and seeing into the future / fortune telling (with Tarot cards, no less)
>ask her "Why??"
>she says, "Because in the Bible it warns about that, and it wouldn't be in the Bible if it wasn't real."
>mfw she has a Masters degree and an important job with the local school district decide children's futures

This stupid fucking country...

>tfw you believe in theistic evolution
Nobody likes me.

>>6615350
The Bible says it's okay to sell your sister into slavery so long as you get a fair price for her. And it wouldn't be in the Bible if it wasn't real.

>>6615396
Interesting.


...W-would you like to buy my sister?

>>6615350
The worst part about that is that the reason those things are outlawed in the bible is that they were an affront to God due to the hubris it requires to believe that a human can step into the domain solely reserved for the divine

There isn't a single documented evolution of homo sapiens OP. There's literally zero evidence that humans evolve.

Where the fuck are the winged people? Where the fuck are the lizard skinned people? 200,000 years and not a single evolution? Fuck you and your stupid fucking theory.

>>6615425
pics please. No fatties or mexicans.

>>6615466
>Where the fuck are the winged people?
Bone density
>lizard people
There are but they are aliens that control the IMF and federal reserve. At least that is what /pol/ told me

>look guys I made this thread again XD
>upboat if you like this!

>>6615498
>No fatties
She is at least 100lbs overweight, sorry.

>>6615466
DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW EVOLUTION WORKS???

Evolution:
>scientific evidence, tests, facts, rigorous methodology, verifiable empirical documented truths, peer review, the culmination a lengthy and difficult collective effort in the pursuit of knowledge
>accepted as 100% truth by the scientific community in the same way as such other controversial ideas that religion previously refused to accept, such as "The Earth orbits the sun."

Mentally ill cult members:
>an invisible wizard did it!
>it said so in our +2000 year old book!

>>6615466

>Where the fuck are the winged people?

Boy, do I have a website for you.

http://wingedones.webs.com/apps/forums/

They say it's a roleplaying forum, they're lying in case the hunters that kill otherkin find it.

>>6615466

6/10 pretty good

>>6614912
>Evolution is a theory
>Gravity is a law

Hurr durr/10 made me reply.

Can anyone tell me why this book (and other books by the same author) are not required reading in all first world schools?

I think of at least half a dozen meaningless books I was forced to read in school and got nothing out of, which could easily be swapped out for this or something similar.

>>6615529
As is evolution isn't just long drawn out and isn't as fake as your 2 bs option

>>6615571

My old high school actually made it required reading for AP English 12.

>>6614912
I think half of the reason that people don't believe in evolution is because of assholes like Richard Dawkins try using it to prove that G-d doesn't exist.

The faith in G-d does not have to contradict evolution.

Ask has G-d ever helped you in your life?
How did he do that?
They give some example about how G-d helps in an indirect way.
So the expression of G-ds will does not require that G-d come down from heaven and fix things for you.
Humanity came into being by G-ds will.
Is it to much of a stretch to believe that G-d guided the random mutations of genes inorder to create the world we live today? Isn't that how G-d intervened in your life through "random" chance? Doesn't the order out of randomness of evolution fit in exactly with your experience of G-d?

Imagine you are in the position of describing how G-d influenced evolution to a child who knows nothing about biology, dna, or genes.
How would you go about doing that?
That is why genesis reads?

>>6615583
>I think half of the reason that people don't believe in evolution is because of assholes like Richard Dawkins try using it to prove that G-d doesn't exist.
This. It's a reaction to a perceived attack (which is actually an honest attack from guys from Dawkins).

>>6615588
When has Dawkins attempted to "prove God doesn't exist"?

>>6615589
He doesn't necessarily do that directly, but he invites criticism of science in general and evolution specifically with the way he tries to spread understanding and appreciation for his field. He more or less politely tells the most religious people "you're stupid for believing this shit".

Science needs a patient popularizer like Carl Sagan. Not someone like Dawkins who hates the people he's trying to persuade.

>>6615571
Because it's largely conjecture?

FACT: There is no God.

Anyone who disagrees is trolling or stupid.

>inb4 muh agnosticism!!
>inb4 b-b-but, but y-you can't PROOOVE ...
blow it out your ass, you fucking child

You can't "PROOOOVE" that fairies or leprechauns don't exist either.
Do you believe in those, too, you fucking mong?
No -- you dismiss them as ludicrous, as you should, and as you should with the notion of "God."
Learn some basic logic.
We're not fucking cave-dwelling knuckle-draggers anymore.

(well, most of us aren't anyway lmao)

>>6615593
>he invites criticism of science in general and evolution
So?

>He more or less politely tells the most religious people "you're stupid for believing this shit".
So?

Science doesn't need a PR firm. It is what it is and people who understand it will support it.

>>6614912
Okay it is definitely not "the majority of the population" you fucking special snowflake european self-proclaimed intellectual bootlicker.
Just shut the fuck up please I'm tired of this voice of reason bullshit, and take your fucking
>mfw
with you.
Fuck you very much.

>>6615597
I think you're the bridge monster here albert.

>>6615599
>It is what it is and people who understand it will support it.
Right, but you get more people to easily consider what you're telling them if you do it in a non-aggressive way. If you approach people with a message of "what I have/think is great and what you have/think is bullshit" then they're going to react negatively, even if it's true.

And the more people who understand science and all the stuff related to it the better. Last thing the scientific community needs is to be seen by the layman as a bunch of ivory tower snobs. That's how most climate change deniers perceive scientists and so they assume everything scientists say are lies.

>this whole thread

>>6614912

>>6615597

>>6615597
That isn't valid reasoning. Alexander the great couldn't prove the planet Neptune existed yet despite the lack of evidence for the existence of Neptune it sill existed during his lifetime.
Therefore the lack of evidence of G-d is not proof that G-d doesn't exist.
For many people G-d is like physics dark matter, the evidence for the existence that it explains why certain things are the way they are.

>>6615611
It's only "aggressive" to Bible thumpers. The only people who can't handle criticism are people who believe things because they want to and not because of reason. What Dawkins does is a response to religions' attempts to counter scientific knowledge. Without him there is only one side with a loudspeaker.

>>6615613
>>6615617
>>6615622

These posts are too edgy.

>>6615626
Why are you typing God like that?

>>6615626
Fairies and leprechauns could exist in reality but you would still be an idiot to say they exist when you have no evidence. No one needs to "prove God doesn't exist", just as no one needs to prove Santa Claus doesn't exist to reject the claim that he does.

>>6615639
>>6615629

>>6615626
Do you think he would be justified in believing that Neptune exists?

>>6615667
The question is do I care.

>>6615639
A lot of atheists writers out there have started making up the rules of logic in order to prove their claims. It is not true that you can be certain that there is no G-d simply because you say there is lack of sufficient evidence of G-ds existence.
There also is more than "no evidence" for G-d. There are writen down stories that describes G-d. There is the very real question, of "why the hell are we here", that science currently has no suitable answer for (because that is not the job of science).

The belief in God is not strictly rational, and requires some degree of faith, but it is neither completely irrational either. There is no proof that God does not exist and there is very little evidence that God does exist.

>>6614912
>mfw the majority of the population actually believes that this is true
This isn't true, are you living in the Middle East or something?

>>6615683
Russel's teapot, occam's, hanlon's and hitchen's razor are arguments not "rules of logic"

>>6615667
The point is that he can believe in something without evidence and still be correct. Dismissing his belief is what a good scientists or lawyer would do, but the lack of evidence is not evidence that Neptune doesn't exist.

>>6615686
>are you living in the Middle East or something?
Nearly -- Texas.

It's basically the same, only instead of Mudslimes we have Christ-stains.

>>6615754
You have mexicans.

>>6615788
The Mexicans mostly keep to themselves on the issue of religion here.
They are a very religious group, but not a very vocal one.

Unlike the evangelical white folks,
who are invariably the morons who are trying to get evolution banned / Jesus in the biology textbooks.

>never met a creationist IRL before
>invite girl over for a BDSM scene
>find out once she's over that she's a satanist
>that's kind of stupid but whatever makes you happy I guess
>finish scene, watch Galapagos 3D afterward as a cooldown
>Her: "Ugh, I hate how they keep talking about evolution as if it's a fact."
>"...what do you mean?"
>"It's just a theory"
>"uhhhhh..."
>"They can't even prove that people evolved from apes"
>"Well actually..."
>"If you look at the evidence we actually have more in common with dolphins than apes. It's pretty clear we're descended from dolphins if anything"

And that was the last time I ever did anything with her. Still can't believe there's a such thing as a satanic creationist, much less that there could be a brand of creationism out there that makes Christian creationism look reasonable. I can't even make this shit up, this actually happened, someone this fucking stupid actually exists.

>>6615808
I wish this was bait, but I've seen too much crap like it to automatically deny it.
These people vote, goddammit

>>6615396
I've read the first few books of the bible and you're actually right. High five for /sci/ knowing it's bible content.

>>6615029
i would pull the lever and if anyone accused me of anything i would say that i thought the lever would stop the trolley.

>>6614912
OP many average men hold that belief and as we all know the average man is pretty stupid, but hold it it gets better, about half of the people on earth are even more stupid than the average man.

>>6614912
I blame the feminization of society. Society has adopted more female aspects. We have a society today where feelings and emotions are more important than the truth.

>>6615821
I can't fault you for thinking it's bait. Had it not actually happened to me, I would be thinking the same thing.

>>6615824
It's been my personal experience that atheists actually know the bible better than most Christians. A lot of Christians don't actually read it and just regurgitate the convenient parts that support whatever they themselves want to believe, and then ignore the rest. What's funny is that all the bits about slavery used to be really well known back when slavery was still legal in the US; the main reason why slaves were converted to Christianity was so that their masters could point to all those "slavery is totally cool" passages in the bible to keep them in line. Oddly enough, once slavery got outlawed and came to be universally viewed as a crime against humanity, suddenly no one mentions those parts of the bible anymore.

>>6614912
I think the worst people to encounter are the baffling creatures who claim not to accept either evolution or creationism but don't offer any third option.

They're either trolling, lying, or too stupid to be believes.

>>6614912
If people don't believe evolution in the 21st century, then they'll never believe in it. It's best to just let them be fucktards and hope their children will open a biology textbook.

>>6615835
>A lot of Christians don't actually read it and just regurgitate the convenient parts that support whatever they themselves want to believe, and then ignore the rest.

That's because the typical Sunday sermon is maybe four or five sentences followed by an hour of heavily opinionated interpretation.

Even if they didn't constantly revisit the same passages over and over again which they do it would take a fucking lifetime to get through the whole thing at that pace.

Seriously read one fucking book of the Bible in an afternoon and you'll have gotten through more of it than the average pastor covers in a year.

>>6615842
Oh, believe me, I remember my childhood church experiences very well. In Sunday school you'd only ever hear about the same few stories, and then in the actual service the pastor would only ever talk about what the bible says about money and married life.

Evolution is really the best thing we have so far in terms of understanding Biological lineage. Sure, skepticism is nice. It is excellent, but Creationists generally don't try poking holes in Evolutionary data because they actually want to find truth. They only want to make Creationism look more valid for the sake of self-assured buttpats.
Most creationist sources don't even have any data besides the bible (sometimes. Many sites I have visited they seem too squeamish to even mention god in the worry they would be shunned) or simply back Evolution.
Creationism, as far as I have read into it, is not a theory. At best, it is a hypothesis, but a silly one at that.

The sad thing is that part of their argument is that we should be 'skeptic' about what we learn. In terms of real skepticism, FUCK YES. Of course we need to compare and contrast any sources and actually think to find truth within data, but it's not what Creationists want. They just want you to doubt Evolution.

Yes. I am mildly aggravated.

How else can a rose so beautiful? Surely it must been created by a diving being?

>>6615857
why pick a rose? why not malaria or rape or something.

>>6615466
>200,000 years and not a single evolution

we can observe evolution very clearly in what man has wrought unto dogs. you don't think that helpless fucks like pugs could survive in the wild without men breeding them into what we want.

>>6615029
>blindfold victims so no observe train
>pull lever withot look at train
>all dies
>nobody dies
>ZOMBIES REAL
>go home
>fart in hand
>sniff hand
>cry

>>6615155
Some people just need to be forcibly removed from the gene pool. Tell me she hadn't already reproduced.

>>6615386
yeah, just an hero now. You're like people on /g/ that use VIA CPUs

>>6615386
If you're theistic but recognize that science takes precedence over your belief you're okay in my book.