/sci/ - Science & Math

it might work over short distances

>>6591257
There is no choice in that image. On the left is power generation and on the right there is power transmission. Two different topics.

>>6591269
congrats anon, someone with critical thinking

>>6591267
>it might work over short distances
didn't read it did ya?

gonna be global

>>6591285
>gonna be global
I can tell from the link but I don't think it will be global

>>6591294
>I can tell from the link but I don't think it will be global

IC
>implying reading a link equates to understanding the article or the concepts involved

Sounds like a scam.

They are basically asking for money ($800,000) just to do some research.

>>6591343
you can insult me with any kind of pictures you want and I can keep telling you that it won't work
you can even call me an "anti-intellectual"

let me just have it my way this time

>>6591356
>let me just have it my way this time

the laws of physics do not concur

>>6591350
>They are basically asking for money ($800,000) just to do some research.

a few flaming dump trucks full for grant money should cover it.


I guess nobody is actually interested enough to read the material. Your ignorance is showing as is your bias

>>6591257
I think you should stop reposting this shit.

Gah, this is just as bad as the solar roadways shit.

>>6591384
>I think you should stop reposting this shit.

I think you should post your actual objections to the physics involved if you have any, instead of just grumbling and going on about "muh feels"

>>6591375
>>a few flaming dump trucks full for grant money should cover it.
then why didn't they write a grant and not an indiegogo?

And why the fuck are they doing application first then fundamental science? That's not how things work.

>>6591387
>application first then fundamental science?
to do the science you must have the equipment

>>6591385
How about this, why don't you link me to a peer reviewed journal article about the physics involved, then we'll talk.

>>6591397
here is one about the energy transfer process
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=field%20theory%20of%20traveling%20wave%20tubes%20chu%20jackson&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdspace.mit.edu%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F1721.1%2F5010%2FRLE-TR-038-08407035.pdf&ei=qBedU6KvHI-uyATbg4LQCA&usg=AFQjCNHqrQu3ePT-fG1FKt1JA8JPPGjUmg

when you understand this interaction we can talk

Dear retards:
>inverse square law
That is all

So what's the idea, create a giant fluctuating magnetic field so all metals get currents?
Because that sounds like an incredibly bad idea.

>>6591397
http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120000051_2011023798.pdf

http://elib.psuti.ru/ffon09_to12_no4/Davidovich.pdf

here are two more of the reference materials used in the article

>>6591375
>the laws of physics do not concur

their proposed frequency of resonance is still too high

>>6591419
>So what's the idea, create a giant fluctuating magnetic field so all metals get currents?
>Because that sounds like an incredibly bad idea.


read the article>>6591257
then make silly comments if you must

>>6591424
>their proposed frequency of resonance is still too high
and why do you say that?

the harmonic of the fundamental earth resonant frequency was chosen for many reasons that you cannot fathom because you choose to remain ignorant.

>>6591430
>cannot fathom because you choose to remain ignorant

bro, stop insulting me at every turn

>for many reasons

their reasons are unsound, they are sending the waves where there is no medium of transmission

>>6591257
I applaud any attempt to actually get out and do something instead of pontificate on the internet.

>>6591426
The article is TL;DR

>>6591464
basically it says the earth / ionosphere make up a giant resonant system that can be used to make energy available anywhere on the globe with very low transmission losses

the data is already there to corroborate this idea, what is radical is the possibility of extracting energy from the solar wind / ionosphere interactions

>>6591434
>their reasons are unsound, they are sending the waves where there is no medium of transmission

wtf?

>implying radio waves can't travel through space

>>6591434
>bro, stop insulting me at every turn

the true insult is your steadfast adherence to outmoded ideas about electricity

do you know what a "dispersion relation" is?
do you know what a TM mode wave's characteristics are?

>>6591434
>their reasons are unsound, they are sending the waves where there is no medium of transmission

But there is a medium. The aether.

>>6591487
yes i do, the mode they use can be used for telecommunication but not power

>>6591525
>the mode they use can be used for telecommunication but not power

>implying a microwave oven can't cook a hot-pocket

if you really understood half as much as you think you do you'd be dangerous

>>6591541
then you would need a rectenna to collect it but they didn't say that in their article thing

>>6591546
>then you would need a rectenna to collect it but they didn't say that in their article thing

I will say it again, you really don't get it do you.

the method of coupling a TM mode wave is electrostatic not electromagnetic

>>6591481
Wouldn't disturbing the ionosphere have some sort of undesirable results?

>>6591558
>electrostatic
frequency too high

>>6591561
>frequency too high
again you show your ignorance.

check out "velocity modulation" in a Klystron
>electrostatic interactions at Ghz freqs

>>6591559
>Wouldn't disturbing the ionosphere have some sort of undesirable results?

it might, but those would be very extreme cases

>implying solar flares don't already disturb the ionosphere to a much greater amount than mankind ever could

>>6591356
>let me have it my way
the universe probably wont

I'm pretty sure that Tesla's original idea of using the magnetosphere to transmit power like that wouldn't work as he described it, that we've since learned it either lacks the properties or would require a shit-ton of power or would turn every piece of contiguous metal into a charged hazard and make radio static.

Tesla was a giant of electrical engineering and physics but that doesn't confer some magical infallibility on the guy. Appreciate him for what he actually accomplished but accept that we've moved on a great deal since then.

And the Wardencliff tower was just a radio tower, not a deathray or magical generator.

>>6591481
>what is radical is the possibility of extracting energy from the solar wind / ionosphere interactions

go fly a kite ben, adults are talking here

>>6591649
>I'm pretty sure that

being "pretty sure" you are completely mistaken in several particulars

>>6591649
>Tesla's original idea of using the magnetosphere
wrong, he used the earth and the ionosphere together as a resonant cavity

>>6591649
>we've since learned it either lacks the properties
read this from nasa
>http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120000051_2011023798.pdf

or would require a shit-ton of power or would turn every piece of contiguous metal into a charged hazard and make radio static.

again wrong

http://globalenergytransmission.com/index.php/en/f-a-q
>>6591649

>And the Wardencliff tower was just a radio tower,
and once again wrong, Tesla intended the tower for wireless communication but it WAS NOT radio

>>6591257
>"just how bat-shit crazy was 'ol Nikola?"
he wasn't

>>6591419
No. Tesla's plans for wireless power transmission have ALWAYS required a specific receiver for the electricity to follow so that things like that don't happen.

Fucking read about this shit before posting, people. I'm not OP, by the way, I was just reading through the thread. I'm surprised by how little /sci/ knows about this stuff. Anybody who has built their own Tesla coil KNOWS that this stuff DOES work and that it takes a very small amount of input energy in comparison with the huge amount of energy you get out of it.

>>6592092
>I'm surprised by how little /sci/ knows about this stuff.

I am OP and I agree I've been totally blown away at otherwise educated people's opinions of Tesla's work.

I see this
>Tesla was a giant of electrical engineering and physics but that doesn't confer some magical infallibility on the guy.

type of condescending bullshit all the time from people who should know better. Of fucking course Tesla was not magically infallible. But as someone who was 1st introduced to Tesla's genius while studying electric motors I must say he knew a shit-tonne more than most modern scientists will admit. Anyone who will actually investigate will find out that his supposed "mad scientist ravings" about "wireless power" and "free energy" are founded in firm experimental fact.

I am very excited that these russian's are going to try this experiment this fall. The data will be VERY interesting.

btw. here's a quote from the NASA article>>6591423
>http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120000051_2011023798.pdf

>Summary Paragraph
The surface of the Earth and the lower edge of the ionosphere define a cavity in which
electromagnetic waves propagate. When the cavity is excited by broadband electromagnetic
sources, e.g., lightning, a resonant state can develop provided the average equatorial
circumference is approximately equal to an integral number of wavelengths of the
electromagnetic waves1.

>>6592116
I absolutely agree. I still remember building a Tesla coil with friends back in high school completely from scratch for a physics project. I'm the end, we were able to give it an electric current from a neon sign transformer which would usually not be enough to power more than one light, and after that current ran through the coil and came out of the toroid it was able to wirelessly power multiple fluorescent lights. There are people to this very day that didn't even know that was possible.

>>6591257

don't transmission losses increase drastically when you transmit energy wirelessly over long distances? Like, to the point where you would basically get no energy at all more than a few hundred feet away?

>>6592125
>There are people to this very day that didn't even know that was possible.

ya, they think the compact florescent light is a new invention.

I studied EE at purdue when a slide rule was a required item for an engineering student. I was taught that Tesla's wireless transmission could not work as he proposed. Then many years later I got a gig doing satellite uplink work and needed to learn how some "special" equipment actually works so I could troubleshoot and fix the stuff. I found the electrostatic / electromagnetic interactions in a "standing wave structure" are what microwave amps and oscillators are all about. And when you get that far and start with the concepts involved you very quickly find that Tesla's statements and experiments make a whole lot of sense.

The insistence that Wardenclyffe was going to transmit "hertzian" waves because that is all that exists still is common today even though it is completely and thoroughly wrong.

>>6592116

>free energy

0/10

>>6592141
>don't transmission losses increase drastically when you transmit energy wirelessly over long distances? Like, to the point where you would basically get no energy at all more than a few hundred feet away?

under "normal" circumstances yes, the power will fall off in direct relation to the distance squared. this is a property of transverse "hertzian" EM waves.

Tesla was NOT using that mode of EM propagation. The TM mode does not have the same attenuation with distance because it does not have a spherical wavefront. TM mode falls of with direct proportion to the distance NOT the distance squared for this reason.

The actual ohmic resistance of the Schumann cavity is an order of magnitude lower than ordinary wire transmission lines when it comes to transmitting power over long distances.

>>6592141
>The Earth can be regarded as a nearly conducting sphere, wrapped in a thin dielectric tmosphere that extends up to the ionosphere, for which the conductivity is also substantial. Atmospheric electric discharges generate broadband electromagnetic waves that propagate between the surface and the lower boundary of the ionosphere (~100 km). These two layers define the surface-ionosphere cavity, which supports both longitudinal and transverse electromagnetic modes. Lightning, most frequent over continents, particularly at low latitudes, induces the development of standing waves, whose wavelength is related to the radius of the cavity. For a thin, lossless cavity, the eigenfrequencies are approximately given by ωn = (c/R)(n(n+1))1/2, where c is the velocity of light, R is the Earth radius, and n=1,2,3,… is the corresponding eigenmode. When more realistic conditions are considered, namely losses in the cavity, variability of the upper boundary, and finite ionospheric conductivity, the eigenfrequencies are somewhat lower3. The average measured frequencies of the five lowest eigenmodes are, approximately, 7.8, 14.3, 20.8, 27.3, and 33.8 Hz[2], which fall in the Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) range. The Q-factor is commonly defined as the ratio of the accumulated field power to the power lost in the oscillation period. The Q-factors for Schumann resonances are ~5 and provide estimates of wave propagation conditions in the cavity. Schumann resonances have been used to investigate multiple phenomena related to the surface-ionosphere cavity, namely electromagnetic sources, properties of the medium, and boundary conditions. Since lightning is the major source of electromagnetic radiation in the ELF range, Schumann resonances are used to study the daily and seasonal variability of lightning in the cavity as well as other phenomena such as tropospheric water vapor, aerosol distributions, and solar flares and geomagnetic storms.

It's interesting how once people with an actual hands-on education in electricity provide proof that Tesla's ideas are actually quite viable and good, the opposing parties tend to stay quiet. Almost as if most of /sci/ is just people talking out of their asses...

>>6591575
The Earth is tethered to the sun magnetically, this is where it gets its magnetic spin. Electricity and magnetism are polarities;
if you supercharge the ionosphere then the magnetic poles will eventually shift.
This result will become the End of Days; for we will no longer be a part of the fourth dimension, our magnetic poles will leave us and we will be a part of the fifth dimension. The first sun will leave, as all three other suns leave, and in darkness will come the fifth sun. We are not long for This "World" of "Four Corners"

>>6592191
the part that gets me is IF the system works the way Tesla and these Russians propose there is no way big biz or governments can stop it because it's dirt simple to implement.

If the interaction of the ionosphere and the solar winds can be harnessed it will provide nearly free energy for all.

The analogy would be this system is "free energy" just like hydro-electric dams provide "free energy" with the major difference being that with the Tesla system we can make it rain to refill the reservoir on demand

>>6592195
>The Earth is tethered to the sun magnetically,
confirmed for idiot

>implying the sun didn't just flip magnetic poles in it's natural 11 year cycle

>>6592202
What happens to the molten magnetic core below the earth as the humid sky above the earth takes up a charge of its own? What is the charge of the very center of the earth? What is the charge of the ionosphere? How do they relate?
If you approach science and ideas with "you are idiot, me smarter than you", you will never learn anything of the Socratic Method.

>>6592207
>What happens to the molten magnetic core below the earth as the humid sky above the earth takes up a charge of its own?

it has a charge, inductively created by the charge on the ionosphere.

I have long wondered what the mechanism is for charge separation that causes the ionosphere to ALWAYS have the same charge when the solar wind is mostly neutral.

>>6592207
>If you approach science and ideas with "you are idiot, me smarter than you", you will never learn anything of the Socratic Method.

some from column A and a little from column B
people who say things like>>6592195
>for we will no longer be a part of the fourth dimension, our magnetic poles will leave us and we will be a part of the fifth dimension. The first sun will leave, as all three other suns leave, and in darkness will come the fifth sun.

leave me little choice in my estimation of their overall intelligence