/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6395338
just because an animal has pointed tteth, doesn't mean it only eats meat. you observational scientists always miss the obvious

1. No religion vs science threads on /sci/. It sucks that there's no /phi/losophy board for these things (the closest is /lit/ and they're overwhelmingly religious, surprisingly).

2. I read an article saying ham won not because he was right but because debates are limited-time sensationalist audience-pleaser events, and because he made tons of money for his shite museum.

Just watch a presidential debate. How often do they bring up projector screens and talk about facts? How often do they regurgitate platitudes and dodge each other's questions? Much more of the latter than the former.

3. It's really not a debate anymore. It's willful ignorance vs. educated people repeating themselves over and over again, but not being heard.

4. Creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive. While I'm not a creationist, it seems to me creation is more at odds with cosmology than biology. Only religion-specific creation myths are at odds with other fields. The vague idea of a God does not have to conflict with the universe as-we-know-it, except for the first few seconds of it.

5. I thought I'd toss you a bone before a mod inevitably deletes this.

>>6395342
That's not what I said or asked or implied. Thanks for replying though Ken.

>>6395351
Yeh, I agree, I'm not anti-god at all,but young-earth creationism strikes me as inherently stupid.

Would love to see a philosophy board, then maybe I wouldn't spend all my time on adult gif.

>>6395351

Is /lit/ overwhelmingly religious or overwhelmingly heavy agnostic atheist who identify as just agnostics? Actually curious because I know /lit/ reads a lot of philosophy.

>>6395351
>/lit/
>overwhelmingly religious
No.

>>6395398
They are one of the most religious boards, but still overall probably agnostic-atheist, witch 90% of self proclaim atheist and agnostics are anyway.
Although I do believe the most of "theist" on 4chan aren't really so and are just trying to not be like reddit.

The saddest thing about that debate was that you could tell 90% of the audience wasn't willing to hear a word Nye had to say and already made up their minds that Ham's views were correct.

Fucking creationist logic, it's a farce that they called it a real "debate".

>>6395359
a /phil/ or even something like a /hist/ would become /pol2/

>>6395434
To be fair he was often talking about things that went way over any of their poorly educated heads. Add that to the fact they're already AGAINST him equals a really shitty debate. I do not like how Nye debated in this particular event.

>>6395351
>>6395417

/lit/ is not any more religious than any other board, they just don't take kindly to le fedora'd edgy teenagers from other boards coming in to talk about their latest profound realization that not everything in the Bible is 100% true.

They tend to see the Bible more as literature (which it is) and when you see the Bible that way "debates" about its truthfulness are boring. We're sick of hearing about how le funDIES are dum. If you bring up the Bible or Christianity in /lit/, you should know something about its history, and you should know some of the contents, which most people don't.

>>6395435
Not if you get /lit/ cross-boarding from the get-go.

/pol/'s overextended as it is—you see their shit all over /int/ and /tv/. I mean how many devoted stormfags can there be?

>>6395351
>It's willful ignorance vs. educated people repeating themselves over and over again, but not being heard.

Basically this. It's pointless to use logic to try and sway someone who has already formed an opinion completely illogically and is insistent on it being right.

>>6395435
/pol/ comes in and shits up any new board, especially any that could have something to do with politics. It would be a cool idea, though we'd have to just tough out the zerg rush of stormfront until they got bored with it and went somewhere else.

>>6395509
I wish /pol/ wasn't made (well, brought backish). Having no reach was better than their current chokehold on all other boards with their shitposting. It's now a containment board simply because it created the populace it now must contain.

>>6395338
Think of anything and there's probably someone out there who believes in it

>>6395609
i have a big dick

>>6395434

Ham pre-sold tickets to his creationist chums. Over 90% of the audience was his creationist chums from Liberty Uni and supporters of AnswersInGenisis, that's why Bill got little applause and little to no audience participation while every time Ham mentioned the Bible he got a standing ovation.

>>6395735
Ham also got a massive donation to his museum as a direct result of the debate. What did Nye get?

Stupid fucker needs to go back to teaching kids science and leave politics to shrewder folk.

>>6395338
It struck me as a bit odd that they didn't at least do this on neutral ground.

That being said, I gotta respect Nye for going up against someone who is probably just going to spout a bunch of babble, especially in a place where everyone is probably going to agree with it .

>>6395641
I believe you.

>>6395338
>Bill
>debate at a creatuion museum
>expecting anything but to be booed out

And while we are on the topic - why bother? People who go to debates are either stubborn and prideful, meaning they will never admit they are wrong or they're savvy enough to realize that if they admit that the opponent has some good points they'll lose credibility.

I hope at least this time Bill tries to explain to his, mostly religious audience, that God and Science compliment each other.

>>6396212
>are either stubborn and prideful
>either
>and
Stopped reading there

Answers In Genesis got enough money from post-debate donations to build a theme park. Thus Ken Ham won.

>>6396552
>Answers in Genesis theme park

Please tell me this was just a comparison and they aren't actually doing this


All in all, I gotta prop Bill Nye for going up against someone whose answers are basically going to be "NUH-UH!!" in a place where most everyone will agree with that, but it seems a bit pointless.

Reminder, Mr. Ham actually presented this absolutely ridiculous picture in his presentation.

>>6396800
There's something I've always wondered: do Young Earth Creationists believe in Pangaea or other stuff like plate tectonics?

>>6396562
http://creationmuseum.org/

They already have it really, they're adding an ark section to it.

>>6396862
God made the earth as we see it today in six days.

>>6396871
Jesus

>>6396885
I knew this part, I just wanted to put SOME faith in them by hoping they still believed that pangea and all that happened in six days


I guess that was my mistake.

>>6396915
According to creationists god also made the stars in the heavens in one day. Thats the entire universe in one earth day.

>>6395338

To be fair, I thought Ham started off pretty strong. This is coming from a physical scientist who "believes" in evolution. Even if it was pretty much an "argument from ignorance", he did present a decent case for how there may have been "archetypal animals" that evolved different characteristics.

Where he went full fucking retard was trying to defend the entire bible as being literally true. That is literally indefensible.

Nye had a hard job.

He's in fucking KENTUCKY trying to convince people the bible is WRONG.

>>6397023
Not to mention in a museum dedicated to the thing he was debating against

>>6395338
Wait a second, what do they think killed the dinosaurs? It can't be a comet because then everything else would be dead, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYQC2JbKQf0

>>6396066
Unfortunately, Bill Nye said "any time, any place"

Ham never gave one solid answer the entire debate. He ungracefully dodged every real question and responded with something about god being an all powerful all mighty god. Trying to justify this thousands year old story with modern scientific method is ridiculous. No sane person can really believe the earth is only 6,000 years old.

>>6395641
How big?

>>6395338
Ham's physical appearance is a proof for Neanderthal's existence
srsly look at him, he looks like those wax model depictions of caeman in museums

>>6395587
I actually wanted to discuss politics on 4chan.
Instead, the board turned into a shitfest filled with "muh white superiority".
Hell, most of the people who support fascism are probably edgy 16-year olds.

>>6398837
>I actually wanted to discuss politics on 4chan.

You can do it on /b/.

>>6396552

>Answers In Genesis got enough money from post-debate donations to build a theme park.

A dozen Tea-party republicans who will never run for office.

>>6400148
I gave your mom an opportunity cost. Fucked in the butt or fucked in the mouth

>Seems Ham's responses and rebuttals were pretty weak

Unfortunately we can say the same about Bill Nye's responses.

>>6398453
bout tree fidy

> it amazed me that there are people out there who genuinely believe we came from Adam and Eve and that Noah's ark existed,

Only children and athiests read the bible literally.
This is just show business.
Just like all the crazy crap Rush Limbaugh says to get attention it's all about drawing a crowd.

You do realize both men's agents worked together to organize this event and they both agreeded to it because the money was right?

the thing about creationist is that they are SO CLOSE to being evolutionists but for some reason there's a certain distance that has to remain

>ham starts talking about "kinds"
>admits that some species come from the same ancestor
>can't say that maybe their ancestors also came from a common origin

JUST FUCKING SAY IT HAM AND WE CAN ALL GO HOME

>>6401879
They have to admit than some form of Evolution exists because they will look rather silly if they flat out deny that dog breeds can change, because in living memory people have been breeding them for various traits, and the evidence is undeniable.

Therefore they say that species are grouped into 'kinds', and that these kinds can not evolve into other kinds.

Weak and unscientific, but they have to do it. If they acknowledge that one part of the Bible is wrong then they would be forced to question all of it, and therefore question their entire world view and moral system. Very difficult for a person to do.

The belief that Adam and Eve existed it actually a crucial cornerstone in Christian doctrine. Without them there is no original sin, and there is therefore nothing that humanity needs to be 'saved' from, and therefore Jesus efforts on this Earth were redundant, if he even existed.

>>6395641
I have a very small dick, I wish I was you.

>>6397069
Noah's Ark was too small to fit the dinosaurs

>>6401956
Fair enough. I guess they didn't put any cavemen on the ark, either.

>>6401942
I don't believe you

>>6401987
Cavemen are kind of like unicorns, in that respect. They don't exist.

>>6401994
So the fossils were placed here to test us or something?

I digress. I'm trying to make sense of it and I don't want to derail this thread into any more science v. religion than it already is.

>>6401989
3" erect.

>>6402031
Have you ever considered being a bottom?

so how mad are you knowing that the greatest scientist that lived believed in GOD?

>>6403951
I don't believe in Newton

Being as I study Quantum Mechanics, I'm never too sure of anything.

I don't see how this debate was a bad thing. The only way to deal with mass ignorance/delusion is to confront it. If we leave it alone, everyone who believed it will feel invincible as "they're too afraid to fight it because they know they'll lose" whereas if we do confront it most will feel vindicated as they've already decided it's a victory for them...but a few will actually listen and hear the reason.

It's like natural erosion...it may take centuries or millenia, but eventually humanity will come out of the darkness of its own creation.

>>6403951
>Newton believed in GOD
... he also believed in alchemy, in particular the Philosopher's Stone, which is equally fictitious.

I don't get it. Ham sounds like an intelligent guy. All these scientists in his presentation seem intelligent too. Why are they believing such bullshit?

>>6403116
Yes.

I have been avoiding this thread, as I have the uncanny ability to make treads disappear.
However the thread has been up 5 days now, so I'm gonna start defending creationism.

>>6395338
>and it amazed me that there are people out there who genuinely believe we came from Adam and Eve
Science has confirmed all humans descend from one man, and one woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
This is not proof positive, but it is evidence to support the claim.

>and that Noah's ark existed
http://noahsarkfound.com/
http://www.squidoo.com/noahsarkfound
Again not proof positive, but evidence to support the claim.

>>6395351
>It's willful ignorance vs. educated people
I agree. So does the bible. see 2 Peter 3:3-5

>it seems to me creation is more at odds with cosmology than biology
http://www.reasons.org/articles/astronomical-evidences-for-the-god-of-the-bible
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtnHe8vvusE


>>6395434
> wasn't willing to hear a word Nye had to say
The same could be said of your hearing what creationists have to say.

>>6404187
>he also believed in alchemy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy
"Alchemists developed a structure of basic laboratory techniques, theory, terminology, and experimental method, some of which are still in use today."

>>6404000
it gave publicity to something that doesn't deserve it. Even though Ham lost the debate the fact that Nye even took the time to pretend that creationism is a valid idea strengthens creationism. Related:
http://nation.time.com/2014/02/28/bill-nye-inadvertently-rescued-creationist-noahs-ark/
>When private donations proved insufficient to complete the project construction stalled. But Ham announced Thursday that the Ark project was back on track and is expected to be finished by the summer of 2016
>Ham said a flurry of media attention stemming from his Feb. 4 debate with Nye helped nudge support for the project over the edge.

>>6395338

While Islam is far from perfect right now, in the past it actually merged well with Scientific Progress. For example, check out the Persians Al-Khwarizmi (without him there'd be no computers), Rhazes, Biruni, Avicenna, Omar Khayyam (my parents still read him), and etc.

There is something about the Christian worldview that prevents rapid progress in science. I am not Muslim, but I have more respect for it than Christianity. I think it has to do with Islam's simplicity in regards to God (i.e., God is absolute, created the world, and that's it - there is no Noah's Ark or anything like that).

Zoroastrianism also seemed to prevent rapid scientific progress. Christianity is basically a rip off of Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries

I think people need to be honest that it's impossible to separate Church and State. The best thing to do is adjust the religion and make it more secular. For example, follow a more Gnostic and Liberal form of Christianity rather than bullshit like Lutheranism or Baptism. The problem with the Middle East is the Sunni-Shiite conflict and stupid Sharia Law (which really didn't exist in the past in Persia) has made it more fundamentalist.

I think America should make fundamentalist Christianity illegal and move more towards a liberal, Universalist Christianity modeled after the Safavid's Sufism that was employed in courts.

>>6404399
>"I have become bait, the destroyer of threads."

>>6404399
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
That's not to what that means. There was still a significant population of humans before and during the time they would have existed.

Just leave /sci/ and never come back.

>>6404399
Leave. Don't come back.

>>6404399
Threads usually die when trolls or retards start shitposting in them.

>>6404477
>>6404481
>There was still a significant population of humans before and during the time they would have existed.
Why is it none of those people had any children that lived?
>>6404488
Nice arguments you guys have. Lave is not an argument.

I WILL NOT LEAVE.

>>6404530
Or when I sufficiently demonstrate the particular mod/janitor I am arguing with is an idiot.
PIC RELATED
(It won't let me post the entire thread)
The thread had been up for a day. It wasn't until Mr. "smoking is like religion" was shown to be a fool, was the thread deleted.

How is my explaining my views on any particular subject considered "shitposting"?

>>6404444
>There is something about the Christian worldview that prevents rapid progress in science.
What makes you say that?

Christians are the founders of science.
Pic related (Thanks /pol/)

Actually our worldview is the reason you can do science.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UXhuz764bI

>>6404554
>Why is it none of those people had any children that lived?
Confirmed for not understanding this topic.

Lets just stop posting guys and maybe it will go away.

>>6404588
If there were more people around, we would have multiple lines of relation.

We in fact do not.
Why is that?

Because all humans are descended from one man, and one woman.
If there were other humans they did not have any children that lived.

Perhaps you should go ask your mom about the birds and the bees.

>>6404582

Most of those scientists don't compare to Ancient Persian (E.g., Al-Khwarizmi, Avicenna, Omar Khayyam, Rhazes, etc.) or Indian scientists/mathematicians (e.g., Bhāskara II and plenty others).

And lol at adding Louis Pasteur. He was a fraud pushed my corporate interests.

Most of the people on there didn't really contribute much, but some of them do seem justified. I admit, the last 50-75 years has been a period of great growth for the West, but you have to realize countries like India and Persia/Iran had them too.

>>6397017

Cringefest 2014

>>6404592
>mitochondrial eve
>second paragraph
>last scentence

>y Adam page
>second paragraph
>last sentence

Learn to read, learn some basic genealogy.