/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6342738
Because these people at an early age realize that the only thing they have going for them is there brain, so they are more likely to test the outer limits of their brains in the highest fields possible

>>6342738

Because such people tend be on the introverted scale of human experience and as such pay less attention to social signaling and activities with a lot of humans.

But introversion also gives the time and motivation to create complex mental models and scenarios necessary to do such work.

There's also the western tradition of the denigration of bodily and mental experience. Where the "wrestler is made into a parody figure" paraphrasing someone else. Something like weight lifting would be perfect since it relies on measurable metrics and is oriented around individual progression as opposed to social competition. That's my two cents for now.

>>6342762

denigration of bodily experience for the sake of "mental" experience*

>>6342756
i dont have a degree yet and that pretty much describes me

They have no need to look like plastic slaves.

>>6342769

That's a matter of "excessive" social signaling. Being fit isn't being a "plastic slave", it's expanding a portion of your neurology to utilize kinesthetics as fodder for metaphoric and imagic processing, making you healthier, making every day physical tasks easier, increasing resistance to pain, and blah blah blah.

wouldn't someone with a healthy intelligent brain also be good at socializing? It seems like IQ just measures you're ability to think logically. One would think social, creativity, memory, etc would also be accounted into the category of someone having an "intelligent, fit, and healthy brain". It seems like those that tend to be successful have these characteristics. If you're an ugly nerd with no social skills you're brain is only expanded in one certain part of the brain while others are certainly lacking, so actually in some ways your brain is actually not healthy.

>>6342797

You're kinda right. But that's a construction of "healthy" that's designed to exclude those with valuable skills ("the ugly nerd with no social skills"). There's a bunch of relatively "healthy" people who are absolute schmucks, suck-up men, and downright cowards of the soul.

The introversion is also a vicious cycle. Doesn't have that "urge" to interact with people, doesn't get as much experience navigating social cues, is left "behind" further and further until the social beasts can tear him apart with no resistance, is further alienated from practicing social behavior...

I don't know about being ugly, but most of the academics I've met in these fields are actually at least reasonably skilled socially. I think it's largely a requirement of being an academic, as it tends to entail years of giving talks, interacting with new potential collaborators, working closely with grad students, etc.

>>6342797
You're generalizing the notions of IQ and intelligence beyond reasonable limits.

>>6342906
This guy actually thinks the score of one test determines all forms of human intelligence.

>>6342738
less vain.

>>6342797

There are plenty of high IQ people with good social skills, but many are abrasive and tactless. Creativity is required to push science and math in new directions with new solutions. Anyone with a high IQ can apply themselves toward becoming more social, but what does it gain them? Their successes in life will be based on their skillset, not their looks or ability to manipulate people.

>ugly
>ugliest, weakest

Ugly and weak can't be helped. If someone has a poor sense of fashion and grooming, that's not really ugly. If someone has never participated in sports or lifted weights before, that's not really weak.

Gowers is handsome.

>>6342738
I think it's because things might work like this:
All children, regardless of how they look, would be smart if it weren't for external factors.
What do I mean by external factors? Well, the more handsome/prettier a child is (insert pedophile joke) the more probable it is the kid will become """"popular"""", therefore going out a lot and becoming much more involved socially and having less time to focus on school.
Because of this, "ugly" kids are smarter as they can study and focus more on school.
Of course there are exceptions, such as intelligent and handsome people, or ugly and dumb people, but they are fewer.

>>6342950
humans are social beings. It is nearly a socially accepted fact that your conversations and social life corresponds with an individuals happiness. Money, successes, those are all limited to the feeling of emptiness or loneliness that occupies someone without social tact. The majority of people's happiest moments in life have been occupied with moments where they are surrounded and experienced around other people. So actually being able to enjoy and "manipulate" moments with other people will help others perceive you in a brighter light.

I think you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Being in physics I can see most people in my department are normal not like the caricature you paint at all. There are weirdos in all parts of society. I personally find the amount of odd balls is much higher in arts.

Most of them don't work out

>>6342738
the man on your pic isn't ugly, he just has a bit weird facial expression, crookedly sitting glasses and his hair look dirty

>>6343869
This, do you even lift

>>6343869
Because working out makes your face more attractive, right?

>>6342957
having low amounts of strength makes you weak

being unattractive makes you ugly overall

The ugly kids, the weird kids, they don't have many friends, they don't get invited to many parties.
It's either study or jerk it, and the latter can't fill ALL their free time.

>>6342738
I wouldn't say the actual geniuses aren't ugly

Most of them are pretty normal looking, talking about
Euler, Riemann, Einstein, Schrödinger, Newton, etc etc

Getting a PhD in STEM isn't that hard.. being on that list is

>>6342797
>>6342738
It's because in 'Murrica if you are ugly in school you get bullied and have no popularity, leaving you time to do your homework and work towards a PhD rather than hang out with friends getting wasted.

Remove America's school bullying world and you will have a linear increase in success with the "alpha" people being beautiful, smart, social and the ugly "beta" people being ugly dumb and lonely. That's what its like in other parts of the world.

>>6344008
this

look at riemann's facial aesthetics
very straight nose, high cheekbones, clear skin
he definitely has a lot of testosterone in his body as test is responsible for facial symmetry

the actual geniuses aren't ugly, plus look at the ancient greeks, they all worked out

How do I know if I am ugly?

>>6344018
Your face is asymmetrical

Before I say anything, I'll assume you know, and would like to point out the difference between equivalence and implication, i.e:
"All mathematicians are ugly." does not mean "All ugly people are mathematicians."
Also, without loss of generality, let us assume "All mathematicians are smart.". It's not an entirely correct assumption, but a well-based one which will simplify my thesis.
There are many reasons for why mathematicians are ugly. One being that at an early age, physically attractive people are picked out in their respective societies and invited to interacted with other members by those other members, who are hoping to establish physical contact with those physically attractive people, as their genetics and instincts command them.
Having no reason to say "No" to the "other members of society", often physically attractive people themselves, the physically attractive person accepts the other members' invitation to spend time with them. This way, they spend most of their time socializing instead of, say, doing math, and are at an early age encouraged to partake in social activities rather than scientific endeavors. This is fairly obvious and 99% of physically attractive people will react this way, due to the motive hierarchy (the social motive is higher up the ladder than the self-actualization motive).
I would like to point out, however, that this phenomenon does not entirely disable physically attractive people from doing science. Many physically attractive people who are from a scientific background, or are genuinely interested in science for whatever reason will sooner or later feel the need to fulfill their self-actualization motive and succumb to their need to do science, i.e. self-actualize.
TBC

>>6344035
and invited to INTERACT. Sorry for the Tarzan mistake, didn't proof-read.

>>6344008
tesla was kawaii~

>>6344035
you people still fail to realize that you have to draw a line between someone with a PhD in stem and an actual genius

almost anybody (who isn't retarded) can get a PhD in stem with enough work, and those who have the time to put in the work are those who don't get invited to social events, because they're ugly, true

but that does NOT imply the geniuses themselves are ugly, if anything, I'd even argue their physical appearance is above average, simply because of how the hormone system works. Testosterone plays a crucial part in this I think, not only does it make you more attractive (higher facial symmetry, more prone to pack on muscle mass, wider shoulders, smaller hips, taller, etc) it also is key for spacial awareness (reason why women suck so much at parking cars, they lack testosterone)

high testosterone definitely makes you a better mathematician/physicist. Also: the IQ distribution for men is much broader than it is for women, also because of testosterone.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that your statement, PhDs are ugly is only true, because getting a PhD is not exceptionally hard and people who aren't born geniuses can do it - and those are the ugly ones with much time, but there are a few who are not ugly and more prone to turn out geniuses

You guys make a mistake packing everybody into one category. I am of the second kind, the genius kind, so take my word for it. I always speak the truth.

Now, I'd like to analyze the effect mathematics has on a human's body, as well as the psychological profile of an average scientist, which nowadays includes the mathematician, although it is my personal opinion that a mathematician is not a scientist in the strict sense of the word.
Have you ever sat for hours in a very uncomfortable position, practicing your OCDs and pulling your hair because there was this problem that you knew you could solve, and the solution was at the tip of your tongue, but you just couldn't seem to produce it?
Of course you have. It's called stress, and it's the primary cause of skin deterioration and huge weight loss. In some other cases, people will stress-eat and the result will be morbid weight gain. My main point here, of course, that stress will lead to bodily asymmetry and overall yuckiness, and science is a huge stressor.
Also, looking good takes a lot of time, money and effort. Apart from money (relative to other professions), scientists simply do not have time to put in the time or effort to look good, and the odds are, they don't want to. The average scientist is a pragmatist. A functionalist. He(she) doesn't care about aesthetics, therefore he doesn't care how he looks. Of course he cares how he looks, but much less than other people, and when he sees a flaw on his face in the mirror, he'll think about it for 5 seconds, then be distracted by a problem and will completely forget about the whole thing until he looks at himself in the mirror again.
Therefore, many ugly people are not mathematicians because they are ugly, but are ugly BECAUSE they are mathematicians.

>>6344045
The OP wasn't talking about geniuses, he was talking about mathematicians and scientists in general.

>>6344048
>scientists in general

do you not realize geniuses are a proper subset of scientists in general or why are you wasting my time?

I consider your presumption flawed. As someone who actually studies math and interacts with mathematicians on a daily basis, the people here aren't more or less ugly than others of their age. They just take less pains to hide it.

My sage may be invisible but it still counts.

>>6344051
Geniuses are a minority in the scientific society.

You're overestimating genetics' contribution to attractiveness. The biggest part of looking good is putting effort into hygiene, fashion, and diet. I just googled phd math, and most of the people would look great with a makeover, and the ones that have flabby faces and skin conditions would look great after a diet or better hygiene.

The answer is they don't care enough.

I think Math Phds interact with few non-math people, while Engineering Phds interact with many non-engineering people.

>>6344056
you are not disagreeing so why are you responding?

something I've realized a long time ago: there are only two kinds of people on this earth:
time thieves and idea thieves

you are of the first kind

>>6344065
You said something irrelevant to the topic of discussion and I pointed it out to you. I don't see how that constitutes thievery.

>>6344045
This seems very close to the truth.

Quite a few people who don't fit in socially (including uglies) get into research to avoid the external world. And some genuinely smart people, but these are the execption.

>>6344072
nice logical fallacy

how much more of my time do you need in order for you to be happy?
just cut the bullshit out, tell me the actual number in minutes, look deep into you and tell me how much more of my time you need to waste so you can go on with your life

I wonder how much the social awkwardness comes from actual deficiency and how much from the fact that mathematicians in general have very different interests from other people and just stay silent out of politeness.

Because I know I've done that a lot. I've often observed how different I am when surrounded by different types of people. I don't think you get to judge how awkward a person is unless you are the same kind of person and have gotten intimate enough for them to share their interests, both intellectual and personal.

In fact that's such an obvious thing, sometimes people belong in very different worlds and see no need to chime in with an opinion on American Idols. Maybe there are mathematicians that have such broad interests, but mostly we don't, and we do not ask people to accommodate us with things we care about.

I'm gorgeous and brilliant.

>>6344128
Prove it.

>>6344132
How do I prove my brilliance?

>>6344140
by posting you're IQ

>>6344142
But I never took an IQ test.

>>6344148
Then how do you know that you're brilliant?

>>6344155
My coworkers tell me so. It's embarrassing.

>>6344157
How many coworkers?

>>6344164
Including boss, 7, although some are from different labs.

>>6344169
That's a lot. It must be true.

You owe me ugly mathematician pictures

What does society worship? Celebrities
Not intelligence. People who seek intelligence are outliers, which tend to be caused by social isolation, which correlates with ugly and physically weak people

>>6344173
Maybe. I can't tell if just they are retarded, or if everyone is retarded.

when it comes to self esteem people tend to use the measure in which they excel, deliberately downplaying any other factors. it's a downward self reinforcing spiral.

>>6342738
Yeah, this is not really true. Look at some pictures of groups of scientists, like from a physics or math conference, and you will see that most people look very normal. And being in physics, I have to say that most people are not socially awkward.

>>6344185
>a physicist
>in charge of judging someones social aptness

how would you know?

>>6344182
why is comp sci so different from math tho?

>>6344196
CS as a field of research is done by mathematicians but CS as an undergrad degree has nothing to do with math.

Now for explaining the statistic:
Half of the CS undergrad population are "muh video game" manchildren.
The other half are wannabe Zuckerberg jocks who dropped out of their business degree.

>>6344035
My theory is probably closer to the truth
>>6344174

Anyway. Me and my best friend are both good looking virgins. I'm definitely smarter, but he's the smartest person I know. When we first met in middle school, we kind of perpetuated our social isolation. Since the first day I talked to him, we basically left our respective group of friends. I'm positive he would be a normalfag if it weren't for me

You're completely wrong to define self actualization the pursuit of STEM. If we're talking any field of study, it would be finance (this is a capitalist society moreover one made of humans, made from evolution, perpetuated by the competition that arises when individuals express desire. The markets are an embodiment of this)
If we're talking life, self actualization is very social in nature. Social domination, both in regards to the evolutionary standpoint and simple existence. The point of life is to conquer

>>6344190
Because I'm rather normal when it comes to social interactions. And I also socialize with people not from science/engineering giving me some baseline for comparison.

>>6344182
Where is physics?

>>6344209
they had no scale for physics.

>>6344178
Post a picture and say something brilliant, because I get the feeling you're average and an idiot
Anyway I'm good looking and

>>6344210
but physics is scale invariant

>>6344209
off the charts

The guy in OP's picture doesn't even have a STEM degree. He is most likely a liberal arts / theatre / journalism major who intentionally dressed up as what he believe the "nerd" stereotype has to look like.

>>6344209
110%

>>6344218

>Attacking what is clearly a stock image instead of OP's point

Autism general

>>6344223
Was my argument 2deep4u? Take your time to re-read my post.

>>6344218
He's an actor posing for a stock photo.

>>6344225
You're a fucking idiot

>>6344230
actually, you are

>>6344228
That's what I said.

>>6344233
[autism intensifies]

>>6344232
Actually I'm not

>>6344240
Prove it. Post your IQ.

>>6344239
I'm sorry for triggering your autism. (no, not really)

>>6344244
I'm too smart to prove it

>>6344247
>warning: reading comprehension levels at zero percent

>>6344293
You have no reading comprehension? That's sad.

>>6344304
>danger: reading comprehension levels normalized at zero percent

>>6344310
Come on, reading isn't that hard. You can learn it.

>>6344331
>being this brain damaged

>>6344335
You are brain damaged? What happened?

>>6344337
>projections everywhere

>>6344345
Where? I don't see any projections.

>>6344348
>brain damage intensifies

>>6344365
I'm sorry. I didn't want to hurt your brain.