/sci/ - Science & Math

fear.

If I was motivated, I wouldn't be on /sci/ right now.

>>6226154
This, mainly.

I live in the middle of the fucking Amazon. My father is a drunk idiot and I also suspect the poor bastard might be doing some illegal business in order to feed me, which makes me feel guilty and immoral. I spend all of my time on /b/ except for those rare occasions in which I read some novel or pop science book. My life is crap.


What is it like to study at UC Berkeley, OP?

>>6226150
are you indian?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH0nP4NzS9M

>>6226150
Hey OP

How much did you know before entering Berkeley. I live in Brazil and here you have to take a test on the basics of math, physics, chemistry, biology, grammar, literature, Brazilian history, world history, philosophy, Brazilian geography, world geography, English and essay writing if you want to enter the uni. I think this is too much. How is it at UCB?

>>6226481
International kids pay full price. It's going to be expensive.

Nice, I'm good friends with some senior mathematics undergrads at Berkeley. They dont seem too motivated either.

>>6226481
You get tested on English, mathematics, grammar, and essay writing when you apply. The UC system expects you to take 3 years of mathematics, 2 of science, 4 of English (writing, literature, grammar), two years of not english language, one year of visual or preforming arts, and one additional elective during your high school curriculum. Those are the minimum requirements to even be considered, most students do more.

>>6226468
I.. I can't take this seriously. But I'm trying.

>>6226542
oh and two of history (usually world history, then american history/governemt)

drugs
motivational quotes don't work if you're smart because it's ultimately all bs that can be argued against easily

Personally, I'm genuinely interested in knowing how the world works. That's the only motivation I need. I like to learn.

>>6226453
>I live in the middle of the fucking Amazon.
How does this not motivate you to feel awesome?

Little successes.

Every time I finally understand something or figure something out I get excited and next time I learn, study or revise I feel like Stan Smith from American dad, a character in a 1950s public service announcement or out of the world in fallout, all positive and upbeat. Good wholesome booklearning.

Sometimes I feel a tingling sensation in my balls.

Granted, people are different, this would probably require some kind of psychological conditioning on your part.

>>6226453
not OP, but it's pretty rigorous for some of their more popular programs, like engineering, CS, pre-med, pre-Haas (their undergrad business program). They call it the University of Competitive Bastards for a reason.
Sophomore studying CS at Berkeley, by the way. Sometimes I wonder if coming here was the right choice. Maybe I'm just a pansy.

>>6226618 here

I forgot to mention, when I learn something, I feel as though I have unraveled something in the real world. Every time I study or revise I feel as though I am committing this knowledge to memory, such that I could recite it at any time and impress someone with it.

Do you get what I mean? As in, before I didn't know shit, now I know what the fuck is going on. How to do this thing. If I ever need it I know what the fuck I'm doing. Do you see? Can you at least imagine how this might make me hard?

>>6226619
>Sophomore studying CS at Berkeley

Find professors Papadimitriou and Vazirani and tell them they are bloody retards that should have their PhD's revoked.

>>6226626
Vazirani's one of my current professors, actually. Very bright guy, although his teaching abilities may have some room for growth.
Dunno if I agree with you, though. I'm willing to take his word over some anon's when it comes to topics as complex as P=NP.

>>6226628
> P = NP
> N = P/P
> n = 1

Damn i need to get my PhD already.

>>6226632
oh bery gud heres ur 1millions dollurs

amphetamines

>>6226628
>topics as complex as P=NP

But it's not that complex and his book trains CS majors to use complexity theory as an "ally ally oxen free" out of any difficult conversation. His coverage of the theory is vague at best and horribly incorrect most of the time.

Just read the bullshit he wrote in the image claiming NP=RE (Recursively enumerable language aka Turing-acceptable aka every program ever written)

>>6226646
I would, but alas, I should be studying right now for his final.

>>6226653
Are spoilers broken or am I just stupid?

>>6226619
Find professor John Searle (philosopher) and tell him he is an extremely intelligent man.

>>6226656
/sci/ has no spoilers you /v/tard.

>>6226656
what board are you from? Spoilers aren't on /sci/

>>6226653
I hope this comment makes you see how retarded spoilers are when used in bad taste.

>>6226656
<span class="math">~~~~%spoilers work just fine dude[/spoiler]

Narcissism forcing me to find ways to justify my superiority over everyone else. It'd be hard to do without any practical successes.

>>6226666

>>6226662
I lurk and post on multiple boards, but I never really posted on this one until now. Forgive my retardedness.

>>6226666
>6666
nice quads!!

>>6226688
>6688
dubdubs checking quads, impressive!!

>>6226666
Makes me feel less dead inside?

>>6226681
Is hubris your only pleasure?

>>6226481
brasilian highschool final exams are too easy. If you cant adquire that amount of knowledge forget about going to highschool anyway.

>português
>saber o que se passa nas colónias

fear of failure is good motivation. kept me going all through undergrad

It's because you don't see the point in it. Face it if you don't truly want something you'll do it half assed just like all the things you did poorly as a child you just knew that "it wasn't for you" it's simple as that.

Seeing the point in things requires intelligence, fear, responsibility, disciplines and/or loyalty. Fuck I don't know.

>>6226681
I used to be like this, then I said fuck. I'm currently living as a hedonist.

I'm not motivated. I Don't even know why I chose to study this.
The fear of failing and friends in class is the only thing that motivates me.
Humiliating to fail.

>>6226612
It might make for a nice holiday when you have the wealth of the West backing you, but I'm sure living there is not fantastic.

>>6227300
That's what you get for swearing.

shmump

>>6226150
my linguistic research grew from an ocd (i fixed it into something useful) - obsession needs no motivation you see.
my medical research, on the other hand, lacks motivation, so i do my best to delegate my ideas to those who are already specialists in the field - i also have to "whip" myself into learning here with images of what i can develop if i'm playing my cards right.

fear of failure
i genuinely hate mathematics more and more with every year. its stopped being funny long time ago, i fucking hate this bullshit

im so much more talented in drawing, but i realised it too late.

>>6229432
it's never too late. you only live once, so you've to do it right.
or, if it was fun, maybe you're taught in a wrong way & the way for you to study it is only known by you.

Well for starters if you want to be great you don't go to Berkeley. You go to HYP/MIT/Oxbridge

>>6229443
Retard has no idea how Berkeley is ranked in mathematics.

>>6229443
You bitch. The best mathematicians of all time were fucking trained in barns and shit. Fuck off.

>>6229432
Then stop being a bitch and get on a computer and fucking draw some shit that nobody has ever drawn before because you are a fucking mathematician and a fucking artist stop being a self loathing slut

>>6226150
You're all pathetic. I'm motivated to pump out baller science every day because Its fucking interesting and I like making shit. I like thinking about shit and I like solving shit. WTF is wrong with all of you.

>>6229452
>Berkeley better than Cambridge for maths
my sides

>>Berkeley better than Cambridge for maths
It's obscenely retarded that anyone trained in mathematics would even say this type of horse shit. BY WHAT METRIC? I thought math was about, I don't know, verifiable statements at least? This one however, is...well, stupid as fuck. Both of those schools suck, how about that.

BEATING OTHER PEOPLE WITH MY SCIENCE DICK

not really but it's common

The motivation mainly comes from a love of physics, and also having a good career as a scientific researcher later on in life. I stopped caring about getting good grades in high school, although I do realize that getting good grades will make it easier to get into a good university for a masters/PhD which will affect my career. #yolo.

>Be medfag
>Can't motivate myself to study
>Physiology final this day at 4:00pm
>I haven't studied at all
I don't know if I'm depressed or if this shit isn't form be. But after all the bullshit I had to do to get in and being in my third year now I don't want to feel I did everything for nothing.

>>6229496
i can't see how anyone would actually enjoy learning medicine.

>>6229443
>Yale
>good at anything

>>6229500
it's the only key to immortality yet to be forged though, so it's incredibly fascinating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa1A0pPc-ik

>>6227269
I agree, I didn't even study and got in the (free) college I wanted.
Se voce nao e retardado o ENEM e moleza.

>>6229524
wat.
do you as a medical student honestly believe in immortality?

What does a pretty scandinavian athlete have to do with mathematics? Not that I'm complaining.

>>6229603
I consider life an all-time adaptation syndrome, aka stress. If we put human into embryogenesis again (with wi-fi & manipulated machines this time) he might be able to survive (if he controls as many processes as he has to reach. over his blood & other liquids, over rhythms & frequencies, over turning into something else)
Though i hope it's clear we're talking about biological immortality only (for the absolute one is only an image, an aim, a goal asymptote)

>>6226150
Don't worry, brah. We'll all make it. Cambridge mathmo here - I just motivate myself as thinking how I don't want to waste some of my best years procrastinating. And try to take work in slightly larger chunks every day after starting small.

>>6226632
You forgot the P = 0, N = anything solutions.

TLDR: You suck.

>>6229617
did they not teach you about telomeres and chromosome shortening or something? how is going back into a womb supposed to help that?

>>6230311
i'm pretty sure the telomerase-related handling of the problem is the question of a decade at most.

>>6226646
>NP=RE (Recursively enumerable

dafuq

is he trying to push CS into string theory territory

>>6230311

get your genome sequenced

save it to RAID, burn to blu-ray, print to punch card, put in bunker and mothball.

never worry about losing information again

>>6229496

pretty much seems normal to me. school is depressing. its depressing because you have no freedom, its basically like a dog trainer teaching you how to do certain tricks and throwing you a treat when you complete them. you have no freedom to explore science for yourself

>>6230500
>no freedom to explore science for yourself
exactly. something is deeeply wrong here.

>>6230522
As a freshman and sophomore, I loved science and thought of math a tool to be sharpened. I got my BS in Physics and Mathematics, with a minor in Chem. Being a good student, I naturally got loads of internships and REUs in various fields. They taught me that I loved an outdated (or naive) definition of science. Thus, I chose to pursue math in grad school since I loved proofs like I used to love science.

Math (applied) gave me connections to industry, including business and financial sectors. Needless to say, I became driven by money in the first year of grad school, and it is still my only motivation. I'm doing well now, and I'm about to take advantage of an opportunity that roughly doubles my current six-figure salary. (None of that >300k starting bullshit)

I've been hanging out with former classmates, and they are fucking zombies. All of the passion... drained. All of my sympathy towards them though, there is something noble about their (and your) pursuit. I knew before making my decision that my parentless, friendless, and overall cold upbringing would manifest a monster during stressful/lonely periods, inducing a terrible suicidal depression. I guess that's why money motivates me: it fills the void.

Just know that if you are struggling/regretting/depressed with whatever in academia, there is at least one man who respects and envies you for your ability to persevere in academia.

>>6229500
Medfag Anon you replied.
Well in my first year I was so exited to understand how our body works, how is it formed, how it can break down and how you could fix it.
Shit is amazing but currently I have lose my motivation and I'm just going on just by fear of failing.
Also I just did my final, It was alright.

>Guy on my physics course is super super motivated.
>He asks the lecturer something at the end of every single lecture.l
>I assumed he was discussing material beyond the scope of the course.
>Once I get to know him I realise they're super basic simple questions the lecturer either already went over or are so simple they're assumed knowledge.
>Me and some others often answer his questions after lectures, but he goes to see the lecturer anyway "to be sure", only to return and relay back to us that it was "pretty much what you said".

>He will study months in advance for tests, like several months inadvance. Even if its only one test.

>He still gets lower scores than me.

Kinda feel bad for him. He's fallen in love with one of our babby-tier classes that's basically Chemistry 101 shit, and he runs from anything vaguely mathematical or interesting.

I envy dat enthusiasm, dunno where it comes from. I love mathematical physics, but if I have an evening off with nothing to do I don't break out a textbook. I do other shit. I only break out textbooks when its absolutely necessary (ie test next week).

>>6226150
>go into college wanting to be an engineer
>get to college
>"oh shit, science and math is fucking hard"
>realize I've been tricked by the cozening american education system
>realize that they purposely leave out the technicality and difficulty in order to trick people into going into a STEM field
>switch major to economics
>start going out more
>less depression because I'm not stressing as much
>realize I'll end up getting paid more than any engineer
Don't be a fool. If you can't handle it, get out. In the real world, no one is going to ridicule you.

>>6231016
>>realize that they purposely leave out the technicality and difficulty in order to trick people into going into a STEM field

I hate this shit.

>Taking first year physics.
>Finally, I'm at university, I finally get to study real physics

>Nope
>They leave out all the maths and interesting stuff because they don't want to frighten people off taking physics
>Material is dry as fuck and all memorising. No maths

>Doesn't work
>All the idiots that thought physics was about looking at pretty pictures of space still fail and drop out
>Rest of us bored as fuck.

>Think this will get better later
>Nope, 2nd and 3rd years also dry and boring because they have to now appease the morons they got in the door who hate maths

Only interesting classes are ones I take myself. The ones I'm required to take as all physicists take them are boring as fuck.


If I'd known I would have just taken Mathematics instead, although I bet they have a similar system with certain topics they make compulsary and spend most of their time on that most people find boring.

>>6231031
I wish I could trade physics classes with you. Mine was very rigorous with math out the ass and nothing else. I knew that I was never going to use the physics I was learning anywhere, and it was difficult to study for. My GPA got #rekt and it ruined my career.

If only it was some bullshit looking at pretty pictures class. Instead of practicing solving equations I would never actually need to use over and over I could go and learn things related to the career I wanted to have. And I could have been at the top of that career, instead of settling for mid range because of all the Cs on my transcript.

>>6231031
>>6231046
you act like it was Math 55 or something, calm down. I'm sure it wasn't nearly as hard or boring as you make it out to be.

>>6231050
Well, obviously a bunch of people got As, so it I "could" have studied harder and done better.

But the point is, it was a useless hoop for me to jump through (4 years into a PhD program, I have still never needed to use any of the physics I learned even once) and it had a very serious impact on my life for no reason.

Imagine if you wanted to be a programmer, studied CS, was very good at it, but then somebody decided all your As will be converted to Cs unless you beat the swimming team at the end of the year. Sure, you could probably train very hard and do it (genetics aside), and being a great swimmer on top of being a good programmer would probably make you a better person overall in some sense, but it would be very annoying.

>>6231031
What College/University is that? By second year you should already be at Maxwell Equations and know Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus. So it's probably a super shitty college. If that is so, then it should be easy and in your own time you can learn the actual stuff on your own or even get more courses of math to do a double major. To learn stuff on your own look at the MIT OCW physics and math syllabus.

>>6231063
>What College/University is that? By second year you should already be at Maxwell Equations and know Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus.

We do. But the material was covered very slowly compared my classes that were actually interesting.

There was repeated "Ok guys I know this seems like maths but trust me it will pay off. Stick with it!"

I don't know why we're so afraid of maths.Our EM class was half pure vector-calculus. It was glorious and easy, but everyone I've spoken to either absolutely loathed that part of the class or was theoretical physics like me and found it kinda slow and easy (ie. dull).

All the Mathematical Physics students didn't take the vector-calculus half. They only did the EM half and did their own mathematics department run vector calculus class. I should have been in there.

>>6231079
What university is it?

>>6231031
>not going to a uni that has a Calculus based Physics course as a first year weed-out class
After the first one, only the people with ability are able to take the succeeding two/three.

>>6231050

>thinking math 55 is hard.
>hahahaha

babbee never took grad math classes @ a top5 school.

>>6231360
>The Harvard math department claims, "This is probably the most difficult undergraduate math class in the country."
>In the class of 1970, only 20 of the 75 students who began the class finished it due to its difficulty.[3] Similar drop-out rates were true for the class of 1976: "Seventy started it, 20 finished it, and only 10 understood it." and for the class of 2009: "51 students the first day, 31 students the second day, 24 for the next four days, 23 for two more weeks, and then 21 for the rest of the first semester.
>Problem sets are expected to take from 24 to 60 hours per week to complete.[1] Of those students who could handle the workload, some became math or physics professors

>>6230457
What? Those retarded professors are saying that any problem that can be answered/checked is in NP but those are the ones in RE.

>>6226566
i would like to hear about your experiences with drugs being motivational for you

>>6231432
LSD

>>6231394
Sounds like a bullshit class.

>Math 56
>there's a quiz every week
>the final grade is average of 12 quizzes
>the quiz is always only one question: "2+2=?"
>acceptable answers include 4, 2*2, 2*(1+1), 8/2, sqrt(16), "four", 3.9, 4.2
>when grading the quiz I flip a coin, if it comes up heads, you automatically fail the class
Welcome to the hardest math class in the country, even for genius students, only 1 in 4096 students can pass on average.

>>6231360
as someone who used to have to same mentality you have about your intelligence:

you will live a lot happier and more fulfilling life if you destroy your ego and all its needs and replace it with a love and appreciation for life and the universe

>>6231445
i'm talking specifics anon

the first (and only) time i did shrooms literally changed my life. i realized how trivial so many things are and decided the only thing i truly cared about was connecting with people and spreading love. i changed my career path from something that would just make me rich (patent law) to something i am actually passionate about

how did LSD motivate you? i plan on trying it hopefully sometime in the near future

>>6231031

Nobody stops you from doing problems by yourself. Every great physicist was going through every textbook of their time to understand their field. I don't really see how you can be great if you aren't reading and understanding the works of your peers around you in the same field.

>>6231394
>Harvard undergraduate
>difficult

>most common grade given at Harvard is an A and the median grade is A-
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-mode-a/
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/03/harvard-professor-raises-concerns-about-grade-inflation/McZHfRZ2RxpoP5Xvwged1N/story.html

>number of students on the Dean's list is ~90% and has been steadily rising for decades
http://www.thecrimson.com/image/2001/4/23/2375/

>>6230988
>tfw thats basically me, minus the asking simple questions part

oh god now im depressed, I wish I was naturally smart or talented

>>6231463
Native american cultures would turn to psychedelics when someone wanted guidance.

This should be a thing in current culture too.

>>6231567

I do, when I have the motivation.

You know my physics course doesn't do Lagrangian Mechanics as standard? It was an optional extra we had to take, and only about 20-30 people were in the class

There are a good 80-120 other students out there that will call themselves "physics graduates" in a year, and they don't know how the principle of least action is entwined into literally every area of physics. They'll graduate thinking a Hamiltonian is some random thing specific to Quantum Mechanics.

It's ridiculous.

>>6229456
this

>>6226150
You eighter have the need to be absolutely better than everyone else, but that only gets you so far.

Other way is you get on a trail of some discovery, a method, a design or a theory, that on which each step of the way you feel like just one step before finishing or a breakthrough. Also you'd need to be lucky enough to be educated and trained in just a way to comprehend each step and widen your understanding and not get overwhelmed by the difficulty of it. In a metaphore: you need to feel like a hunting wolf on a trail of bloody prey, the fact that you feel it fuels you, but you feel like the prey is within your grasp and that's why you persue.

>>6229417
I'm confused, is the picture an example of what you can develop if you're playing your cards right?

>>6231906
I'm confused. Your language ("some random thing specific to Quantum Mechanics") seems to imply that people can be physics graduates without ever having taken a QM course.

>>6231567
This is nonsense.

Sure, it would be great if I could read every textbook in physics. I'd even take every textbook in my field.

Add to that the backlog of papers from the last 60 years, keeping up with current publications.

And then trying to actually understand all that, and be able to follow all of the maths....

It is not going to happen.

There is simply too much to do.

And doing problems by yourself? are you kidding me? the average textbook problem can require several hours of thought and research to solve, so ~20 problems per chapter, ~10 chapters per book. ~ 100 books per sub field.

20 000 hours of time, thats a full time job for a decade, per field. NOT INCLUDING the time to read it and get to the point that you can even do the problems.

This isnt even inclusing reading papers and keeping up to date.

you are looking at more than a lifetime to truly understand anything more than an tiny sub slice of a narrow field.

I'm only motivated because now i've started, I might as well finish and get the PhD.

>>6231706


>most common grade given at Harvard is an A and the median grade is A-
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-mode-a/
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/03/harvard-professor-raises-concerns-about-grade-inflation/McZHfRZ2RxpoP5Xvwged1N/story.html

>number of students on the Dean's list is ~90% and has been steadily rising for decades
http://www.thecrimson.com/image/2001/4/23/2375/

2013, not buying yourself into diplomas...

geez christ... this is straight out retarded

>Going to college

Just drop out while you can. I'm not a dollar in debt and already years ahead of you in the workplace. Sure, your little paper looks nice, but I'm the one making the money with no stress.

So I am fucking failing Mathematical analysis.
I don't understand.
Do I not understand due to forgotten calculus knowledge?
I can still study if I have at least ten points, so it's easy to get by, so I could try to relearn calculus until next year.
So, what do you think?

no fucking idea. I'm guessing it has to do with neuron concentration in the prefrontal/frontal cortex and more dopaminergic activity than others. The only way I'm motivated on stuff like science and math is when I'm on amphetamine, and yeah failing the class/fear is a big factor for me as well

>>6234856
I don't do physics, but I do research in a math-heavy field of /sci/ence. I just started PhD, and I will say that once you start doing this ALL THE TIME, and you have lots of practice doing it yourself, it gets a lot easier to just "read" some of this mathy & technical stuff more like normal reading. It just takes extensive familiarity with the patterns, but most papers centering around a field are usually variations on like 5 methods, and you learn to predict what they are gonna say and how the math techniques are contributing.

It has nothing to do with genius, just breadth of what you've seen and have gotten under your fingers.

>>6226150
My philosophy is that you're pretty much a waste of life if you're not a scientist
So, there's that I guess

>>6234980
I agree, except I also include engineering (not HTML/JavaScript) into the mix as well.

>>6234980
*engineering and programming (not HTML ya dad yada)

>>6234916
>paying for college

>>6235014