/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6200492
Stay a while and listen!
computer science is where you learn (Fill in the blank programming language) by yourself. you then proceed to take a class on a similar language where you call all the kids retards and then laugh at them, and then cry when you get a 40 on your tests because you do a different syntax or name your variables retarded things or because you made a more cleaver solution that the TA is too lazy to grade. you then end up hating programming and slog through 4 years of torture.

>>6200492
>Anybody here studying computer science?
Yes
>What is it like?
Like a class back in Primary/Elementary School
>How clever are the people that get in?
They are without a doubt the dumbest kids in University

<span class="math">~//inb4 some CS major deflects by claiming I must go to a shit school[/spoiler]

>>6200492
>Anybody here studying computer science?
Yes
>What is it like?
Like a class back in Primary/Elementary School
>How clever are the people that get in?
They are without a doubt the dumbest kids in University

<span class="math">~%inb4 some CS major deflects by claiming I must go to a shit school[/spoiler]

>>6201418
So why are you studying it?

>>6200492
sucks ass
it isn't computer science as much as it is "skim through the lesson, copy paste code, change variable names and call it your own" class.

>>6200492
Yes. Math. Not very. The former in the latter, the latter in the 2 former.

>inb4 computer science is not a science
"inb4 computer science is not a science"?
Hey, OP it sounds like you are giving too much shit on Computer Science.

Computer Science is much less a science than psychology/social science. Computer Science is the study of belief, math and logic, one does not conduct a physical experiment to prove/disprove P=NP.

Computer Science has NO HOPE to become science, while psychology and social science are just very hard to be scientific, but still possible.

we have a shitload of math, 3 calc courses + differential equations + linear alg, analytical geometry + some other stuff.
sounds like a minor in math to me.

I'm new to the programme, but It's considered a pretty challenging one here

>>6202317
>we have a shitload of math
What school are you in? We only had three pure math courses and some logic, AI classes

>>6202323
I go to Tomsk University in Russia.
But honestly, computer sciences programmes differ drasticly.
My friend also does Comp Sci and has barely anything complicated, while I'm struggling here.

>>6202317
>shitload of math
> 3 calc courses + differential equations + linear alg, analytical geometry + some other stuff.

>>6202358
All is relative, of course.

>>6200492
Assuming you're talking about doing Computer Science and your pic is related, it's nothing like any of these guys claimed it is.

>How clever are the people that get in?

Stopped reading there. Just another troll thread resulting in an endless flamewar.

>>6202378
Assume im not going to Oxford but that im interested to know more about Computer Science before i choose a programme

>>6202365

That's less than what just about any engineering major takes. Which is funny, since you guys are always going on about how "CS is really a math degree".

>>6202399
That's exactly why i didnt go for a Computer Engineering degree, it's only physics and math

Operating systems was widely regarded at my old school as the course with the hardest project you'll ever undertake. I loved it, especially since I was doing distributed systems at the same time, and I managed to work that into my OS. Networking was boring. Crypto was okay but was probably not as much fun for those who didn't have a lot of number theory. Hardware was sweet because I secretly built support for synchronization primitives right into my ALU.

Automata theory was my favourite topic, followed by theory of computation. Lambda calculus ftw, and Floyd-Hoare proofs, and continuation semantics.... Anyone who claims that this stuff doesn't deserve a spot in the scientific world at least on par with pure maths is full of shit.

How clever are the people? Some devilishly so, others not so much. Just like any other degree program.

imo math majors are much smarter than computer science majors

computer science guys are smarter than the average guy on the street, but not by much.

>>6202501
>math
>job
Pick one, it's a well known fact that there's no need for people with a major in math

>>6202515
>being so butthurt you start projecting

>>6200492
>What is it like?
At my university, it is more about software engineering than mathematics. It is not what I was expecting. Therefore I decided to also major in mathematics.

>How clever are the people that get in?
The majority are neck beards, weebs, and bronies thinking they are going to work for Blizzard while pretending to hate all games made by Blizzard. They have no respect for their professors, play games on their laptops during lecture, disrupt class, do poorly on homework/exams and then complain the professor is unfair. A handful of people are very clever and knowledgeable, but unfortunately most of these people have inflated egos. The rest are average university students.

>>6202530
>hurr i have no argument so let's throw in some bait

>>6202535
>my argument is buttpain

>>6202515

Don't be daft. Practically every single cutting edge technology that comes out these days is made by possible by something created by at least one math PhD.

Computer science at its highest levels is just math. Computer science majors, unless they're doing a PhD, will never reach the level where it is possible to make breakthroughs.

>>6202982

Computer programs really shine through in their ability to emulate predictive realities AKA simulation. This is where they make their value.

Every scientist could benefit by learning how to program simulations. But that also would require high-brow skill in mathematics in order for the simulations to be useful.

>>6200492
>Anybody here studying computer science?
Yes, but as a minor so that I can possibly get into the field of photonic computing systems.

>What is it like?
It's not as bad as the neckbeards would have you believe. I haven't done much programming, but I just finished (just got out of the final exam in fact) a course on Computer Logic & Organization, which was a really interesting course. Processors were probably my favorite section.

>How clever are the people that get in?
It's a mixed bag, but there is a disproportionate amount of neckbeards, bronies, and a few gamer grills who are 5/10 at best. They're a smarter bunch than your average business/economics/sociology/etc major, but I'd place the group as a whole mid-to-low on the STEM cleverness power-rankings.

bump

>>6202431
> Lambda calculus ftw, and Floyd-Hoare proofs, and continuation semantics.... Anyone who claims that this stuff doesn't deserve a spot in the scientific world at least on par with pure maths is full of shit.
>on par with pure maths
There, you said it, it is not fucking pure math, remember that.

>muh algorithms

>>6200534
LOL I am in my first programming class (c++ programming) and this is literally 100% true. You have to know syntax and other bullshit for the tests and theres just no way to really study. It sucks cock

>>6204722
also tests are not on the computer since the compiler just tells you where you're wrong. so have fun memorizing how to write programs that are complete bull shit while knowing other random syntax rules and gay shit. LOL

>>6202431
Pff, sounds like fun courses. They don't have an os course or a hardware course at my uni. Never got anything on compilers, math, theory of computation, lambda calculus, continuation semantics, automata...
Only learned c# and xml, html, css and javascript. I hope computer engineering is more interesting!

>>6204749
>>6204722
>learning syntax is hard

>>6204723
>>6204722
>learning syntax is hard

>>6204749
>learned c# and xml, html, css and javascript.
>computer science
WHAT FUCKING SHIT SCHOOL DID YOU GO TO?

>>6204749
>They don't have an os course or a hardware course at my uni.
Nah, that's nothing, CompSci is not a science anyway.
>Never got anything on compilers, math, theory of computation, lambda calculus, continuation semantics, automata...
Now that's interesting, not even "discrete math"?
>>6204820
He probably just did some gay web thing, but these artificial stuff is largely irrelevant on CompSci anyway.

I'm in my first year of computer science engineering. I haven't had any courses directly related to my major. What should I expect? How is the job field? Any information on CSE would be appreciated.

>>6204951
>computer science engineering
I still don't get why some colleges tack on "engineering" to everything. It's either "computer science", which deal with more high-level stuff, or "computer engineering", which is similar to electrical engineering but more focused on computers/networking and the actual hardware.

Course material is different for every college, are you in the US or Britain or somewhere else?

>>6204951
Sweden? That's the only place i know of where they have such weird degrees

>>6204957
I am in the US currently going to a community college then transferring to a UC. I originally wanted to major in computer hardware engineering, but they only have CSE.

>>6204722
>>6204723
it's like you guys are literally first year

>>6200492
>computer science
that's not how it works, retard

here we have en entire section called "systemes de communication" should deal with network security.(among many other thigns)

cryptography is more of a maths course :DDDD

>>6200534
maths guy here, what you're describing is programmation classes (mandatory for me), and it's way more complex than that (although I do agree about calling them tards/laughing at them and ending up with bad grades (for different reasons))

I actually also take real (dumbed down) uni-specific CS classes on the side, It's more about algorithmical complexity, entropy (shannon fano), and extremely interesting as a whole.

>>6202515
top fucking lol
Pure maths can only become teachers, but applied maths do everything from finance, actual CS, to other kinds of engineering.

I've recently had a meeting with some alumni, most of them are working for top companies, and some 50+ years old alumni earn the equivalent of 500k$/year (europe)

>>6204722
dumbass

>>6204969
I confirm, they most likely are

>>6204723
also enjoy going to a shitty uni

why do people associate CS with learning a certain programming language? being proficient in a programming language is like being able to do basic mathematical operations and knowing how to symbolically differentiate/integrate.

In theoretical CS you could be studying algorithms, which have applications to biology/chemistry, and psychology if you are looking into machine learning.

you would do more interesting and worth while work if you did electrical engineering instead, and get paid more after...

>>6205071
>muh physics that have no real world application

>>6205071
>implying EE gets paid anything compared to software developers.
Here in Scandinavia people working as software developers have the highest pay after graduation. The market for developing electronic components is not big at all

>>6205057
>being proficient in a programming language is like being able to do basic mathematical operations and knowing how to symbolically differentiate/integrate
>being proficient in a programming language
you sounded like we know what to do with programming language
>is like being able to do basic mathematical operations and knowing how to symbolically differentiate/integrate
yea right, i don't understand what are you talking about.

>>6205057
>why do people associate CS with learning a certain programming language?
Who said that? It's about learning how to express yourself in e.g. programming

So are all CE students try-hards(hurr harder than CS), or are there people who actually study it because they enjoy the topic? Will I have to deal with these retards all the time, or is this just mainly limited to /g/ and /sci/?

>>6205202
I dont understand why anyone would like to study CE. They wont hire you to develop electronics or low level stuff since EE's are better at that, they wont hire you as a high level software developer either since CS people are better at algorithms and problem solving

>>6205219
>computer engineers don't get jobs
Are you aving a giggle, m8?

>>6202327
>>6202323
>>6202317
CS here
>pure math
2 infinitesimal calculus courses
algebra remix
linear algebra
vector calculus
differential equations
discrete math

>not so pure math
2 statistics
operations research
numerical methods

>>6202317
>>6205258
You have to take high school math? How impressive!

>>6205057
they are retards, just look at the way this (>>6205089) guy speaks... it doesn't even make sense at all.

>>6205125
>computer science
>express yourself
No, retard. And what you said potentially gives you out as a humanities shitpig. What are you even doing on this board? It's not like you're fit to contribute anyways.

>>6205258
where is muh computational theory?
all I see is high school and not so high-school maths as was pointed out.

>>6205295
>No, retard. And what you said potentially gives you out as a humanities shitpig. What are you even doing on this board? It's not like you're fit to contribute anyways.
>doesnt know what programming is
>fucking retard
How the fuck do you define computer science?!?! Of course it is about expressing problems and calculations so that they can be handled by a computer

>>6205342

That's not what he post he was replying to said.

> It's about learning how to express yourself in e.g. programming

If this guy was trying to say what you just said, he left half the sentence out. What he actually said isn't even coherent, really.

>>6205361
Just because you lack basic reading comprehension and rhetoric doesnt mean it's coherent

It's very math heavy. Sometimes they force us to use letters instead of numbers.

Do you play video games? Do you want to do "something with computers"? Do you dream of being the next Mark Zuckerberg? Are you bad at math? Do you hate learning?

Then CS is the perfect major for you.

I study theoretical computer sciences, basically what we do is logic and maths. We learn a few things about programming, compilation, stuff like that but it's for culture and it's the boring classes anyway.

The main subjects are Logic (ZFC, models, category theory), computer-assisted proofs (Lambda calculus / type theory), Formal languages, Complexity theory, Game semantics.
We are also encouraged to follow some math courses, i personnally do algebra where we do Galois theory mostly

>>6205367

The smarter you try to sound, the worse your posts actually get. Just stop.

>>6205367
I don't know about your reading comprehension but this post sure isn't the first one where you prove your own lack of basic rhetoric.

>>6205386
>>6205388
>samefagging this hard
Damn, you gotta be butthurt just because you cant read

>>6205383
>Do you play video games?
No

>Do you want to do "something with computers"?
Yes

>Do you dream of being the next Mark Zuckerberg?
Of course

>Are you bad at math?
No but i find it boring

>Do you hate learning?
Depends on the subject

>>6205342
What you described is programming.
Programming isn't what CS is all about.

>>6205393
are you retarded or just pretending to be retarded? also read your posts again

>>6205385
> i personnally do algebra where we do Galois theory mostly
That's good. You will appreciate it.
>The main subjects are Logic (ZFC, models, category theory), computer-assisted proofs (Lambda calculus / type theory),
most of these are delusional and artificial (or useless...), i hope you wake the fuck up someday.

>>6205403
>what is photoshop

>>6205403 here, I think you just proved your lack of reading comprehension by that last post of yours I quoted.

Notice how >>6205361 speaks in the 3hd person.

What are you even graduating in?

>>6205408
Actually i don't do any of it because it's useful or whatever, it's just fun. I like it more than most mathematical fields i've studied

>>6205342

Computer Science involves the analytics behind computer architecture, information theory as it relates to such architectures, the mathematical principles behind computation and information processing, and so on.

You seem to have a very hazy notion of the discipline as a big web of "calculations and programming and shit" that indicates your grasp of the field is poor.

>>6205219
>since CS people are better at algorithms and problem solving

You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about

>>6205407
>using photoshop to do things like this

If you want to create interesting projects in uni, it's on you.
You're going to have to find other people who are interested in whatever you are and design/implement something.

>>6200492
There are a few variable to consider such as whether the class was taken at a community college or university or if it is an introductory course and stuff like that. I will just give you my experience:

So far I've ony taken "intro" course that teach programming (c++ & Java) and those are pretty easy. I spend more time studying and working in my math and english class. However, it could be the fact that I taught myself how to program and did a few projects on my own. Mainly web stuff in PHP & Javascript, still I did not find classes hard. The most challenging stuff was the new syntax.

As far as kids go, in the intro courses you will always get all the neckbeards, social retards, and feodoras that think I do not know what the fuck. All the typical "I wanna make muh game" wow players too. And yes, many are retards that copy code from the web, but you know what, all those people will drop out sooner or later.

Next semester I will start taking more advance stuff such as data structures and even a "software enginnering" class where I've told very clearly that I will not be taught any programming. I am expected to know how to code. So we'll see. Hopefully the upper division courses will be more challenging and they'll be less smelly retards.

>>6205421
but it makes no fun to mathematicians, you can read "The Continuum" by Hermann Weyl, "Intuition and logic in mathematics" by Poincare to get a bit of idea why logic sucks.
Kleene used to call it metamathematics which is fairly accurate, but for some reason he starts calling it mathematical logic..

>>6205555
The "logic" Poincare speaks about and the modern logic have nothing in common. Logic used to suck until the 20th century cause people kept using Aristotelician logic, which was crap. Nowadays a lot of mathematicians still have some stereotypes about logic being bad, but that trend is starting to fade away

>>6205607
That makes your opinion, if you are a logician and trust trend analysis, then you are not a logician.

>>6205799
>implying anyone cant be a logician

>>6205547
where did you get this

i took this picture/video

>>6206756
on /b/

3rd year comp sci student at RIT here. I chose it because I like building cool things. Not because I wanted to know as much math as possible. So the criticism "hurr durr high school math" doesn't mean anything to me. If I wanted a math major I would have chosen that. Anyway the math related courses I've taken so far are:

1 + 1/3 years calc
2/3 year discrete
1/2 year linear algebra
1/2 year prob & stats
1/2 year cs theory

And that's it I guess. It does come in useful. Right now for a side project I need to track the 3d position of a wiimote using 3 infra red leds. It's one of those times where I'm happy I took those courses. But I'm also happy I took the programming courses.

As for the comp sci classes, the intro sequence went Python > Java > C++ > MIPS assembly / hardware. The way they work is you go in, listen to the lecturer go "babble babble C++ syntax babble C++11 babble" and you have no idea what the fuck he's talking about. Then you actually do the lab and it makes perfect sense. The labs are where you learn, you learn by doing. If you weren't such a lazy fuck you wouldn't need a class to push you along. But the same can be said for any academic subject. I can and do learn math on Khan Academy for example.

In CS you better enjoy programming otherwise you will go insane. You should want to apply the knowledge. The courses are just too specialized and time consuming to be worth it otherwise. Just this weekend I had to write 700 lines of MIPS assembly. 700... god damn it. Do you know how painful it is to debug that? I kept my sanity because I know that having this understanding of how computers works will help me in one of my own projects in the distant future. If I didn't have that love of building things I would have dropped out by now.

>>6206815
Im really struggling between whether i should go for CE or CS. I dont like physics but i do enjoy building small robots and programming. When i checked the courses for a CE programme it was mostly math and physics, barely any programming but still people tell me CE is hardware related

>>6206847
CE will probably give you an edge but you can make robots either way. Flip a coin and you can always change your major later if you change your mind. I imagine the first couple semesters are awfully similar.

>>6206847
CE is about 1/2 EE 1/4 CE specific 1/4 CS. You have to know a lot of EE but also a bit of CS to make it useful. So you have to know quite a bit cross discipline which makes CE one of the more difficult engineering subjects for undergrad.

CS is pretty much CE stripped of any EE or engineering classes and replaced with further software oriented classes.

>>6200492
>inb4 computer science is not a science
But it isnt

>>6207274
and nobody cares

>>6207796
Thanks for keeping this thread alive for 3 days

>>6207047

You are such a fucking fool

CS majors take a wide variety of classes outside of CE, including discrete math, logic, algorithms

unless you go to some shit tier school

>>6207822

I'm doing CE and we do discrete math, logic and algorithms.

>tfw you do compsci to learn about artificial intelligence and they just turn you into a braindead codemonkey
(._. )

>>6207844
I want to do robotics. Which major? Applied Maths or Comp. Eng?

>>6207844
>artificial intelligence

The "AI" studied at the undergrad level in CS is incredibly pathetic.

>>6207865

mechatronics maybe

if your uni has it

>>6207822
>CE major
>took discrete math, logic, algorithms
>software engineering, data structures
>physics, math, EE

There's nothing you need to do for CS that CE doesn't. At my Uni (top 10 for CE) you basically do all the lower div stuff for both CS and EE, a few required UD courses for both, then it's all technical electives, so you can choose where to specialize.

>>6207865
EE - control and signal processing
CS - AI: path planning

>>6205393
>being able to post in the same minute
it's like you don't even know theres a limit to the amount of times you can respond to a single topic in any given time bro

>>6207844
Learn that shit in your spare time. There are SO many good books and videos to teach you that stuff. You'll find at least your experience will help you.

>>6207890
CS major here. Yeah the difference between CS and CE here is basically that we get more electives, while they have to take EE classes. Aside from a few things like CS Theory that aren't all that bad anyway.

Computer science basically turns you into a calculator.

You will like it, when you are a calculator, fully calcutized, foreverially loving it.

I know I do.

>>6208403
Obey
Obey
Obey

Really though I love this major, I feel like a ninja. But okay.

>>6207822
You misread my post. Instead of taking the buttload of EE shit CE people take you take more CS shit. All I was saying.

>>6208409
That only proves that CE programmes are a patchwork of the basic EE and CS

>>6200492
>Anybody here studying computer science?
probably
> What is it like?
lots of coding and reading
>How clever are the people that get in?
the people that couldnt get into engineering school

>>6200492
bump, 5th day

>>6208403
Only if you're a shit tier computer scientist. And there is plenty of work for shit tier CS grads.

Better ones need to be creative and smrt. Last weekend I created and applied an algorithm that will solve any sudoku problem just for fun.

>>6210043
>Last weekend I created and applied an algorithm that will solve any sudoku problem just for fun.

That's not impressive at all. Hell that was a homework assignment for freshmen Engineers in a Intro to Matlab course with very little coding knowledge.

>>6202531
On my first day, some obese brony made fun of me for using a macbook. Of course, he had a windows laptop. I tried to explain to him that OSX is based on Unix, which is why it is a better operating system, and how the shell is much better than windows and it is a pleasure to use, and he mumbled something about me pretending to be a hacker and the book/movie "the girl with the dragon tattoo", and started laughing.

He dropped out after the first year.

I don't understand. The professor primarily uses OSX, Eric Grimson uses OSX, John Guttag uses OSX, quite a few notable Defcon speakers use OSX (though, most of them use Linux, but barely any of them use windows).

>>6210043
>Writing a Sudoku solver distinguishes you from shit-tier CS grads

>>6210043
You cunning bastard, you made me take the bait.

>>6210072
>>6210075
>>6210078
please tell me more about you babbies programming microcontrollers

>>6210043
>applied an algorithm

Really? Last weekend I created a mathematical equation for a problem and applied a formula I've formulated for a generalized abstracted version. It solves any function that is a sum of monomials of a single variable of integral degree up to two for the points where it equals any other such function!

>>6205005
Are you studying in france ?
what school are you in ?

>>6210084
>all these buzzwords

>>6211490
Welcome to the world of CS

>>6211508
But the person he replied to was talking about math.

what's the difference between comp sci, comp engineering and software engineering?
i want to write software, which one do i take?

>>6211770
He was mocking the cs major for proclaiming that making and then coding up an "algorithm" was the least bit impressive.

>>6211786
>i

>>6211795
nigga pls, answer my question

Depends on your uni. It's generally average intelligence (mid ground between sci/humanities) but most people are unsociable as fuck.

Most of what you learn is the first 2 years is theory. Last two depend on your focus, and can be any mix of projects and theory.

Related to OP. This is what a Math/CS double major would look like (rougly) at a university I am considering. Does it appear to be worth my time? Keep in mind that requirements may change and some things are out of place.

pastebin/3ZY8vjET

>>6211822
Are you that's not a CE programme? A lot of physics and math

>>6211862

There is a lot of overlap between the Mathematics and CS majors (For example, Numerical Analysis and Numerical Algebra). The set of classes I selected is the most efficient way to fulfill the requirements of both, requiring only 2 extra classes. That means there will obviously be a lot of math.

>>6200492
>Anybody here studying computer science?
Yes me.
>What is it like?
It's awesome.
>How clever are the people that get in?
It depends on the University. Some of them are smarter than the Math majors and other times you get some stinking cheats that have crawled their way through undergrad.

>About all those network security, cryptography and operating system courses, do you actually create any projects there or do you only learn the theory behind the stuff?
You do both. Boring stuffy colleges will still be pure theory for CS. Crappy schools will do almost all practical knowledge and tends to not quality. Modern Uni's do a mix of both.

You do practical projects by yourself, with teams, and also with actual businesses. But you also study hard classical undergrad math and science.

>>6205383
Are you interested in participating in a fast-paced, high-learning environment? Do you have a passion for games? Do your friends and family describe you as "good with computers"?

Computer Science is the perfect degree for you!

At the end of your 2 year undergraduate EXPRESS degree you'll be familiar with Java, HTML, Javascript, and UnrealScript

Computer Science - The Degree of the Future

>>6211786
classically, computer science was pretty much a direct subset of Math academically. Modern CS degrees integrate Software Engineering into classical studies.

if you want to write general purpose software you would study CS or pure SE.

>>6211809
I thought CS majors would be smarter then S and T majors with the exception of Physics majors.

>>6208408
What's she doing in that gif? Does that bitch think its windows 8?

>>6200492

>>6211924
>I posted it again!

>>6211902
employers really don't care as long as you have a degree to show to HR, they just wont get a job at Bungie

>>6211933
The smaller firms you would be hired by probably don't have HR....

>>6200492
I found out that undergrad means absolutely nothing because they barely scratch the surface of most topics. just do something vaguely related to what you want to do, then get a masters in what you are actually interested in because you will prob end up retaking all the classes you took at the graduate level. You could do IT in undergrad and still get a masters in cryptography, and employers would only look at what you got your masters in. If you did CS you would take a crappy undergrad crypto and operating systems classes, then retake them again for masters.

>>6212355
What schools offer masters in cryptography?

>>6213210
wwhat did u say about me u little faggot

>>6211793
Oh. That makes sense.

>>6207871
Like what