/sci/ - Science & Math

Ants don't have metal detectors. Sorry.

>>6128911

You want to deal with enough ants to move the amount of rock and soil necessary to mine a significant amount of gold?

I recommend you try termites. Trade them whatever food they like best for gold.

>>6128930

Will consider. Do they communicate the same way as ants?

They already exist in areas of high gold concentration (Australia mostly).

I was just thinking (if you) once you understand how ants communicate and scout over land wiuth their scent trails it seems feasible that you could chemically tell them to do something.

Or perhaps genetically engineer them to desire to find and concentrate gold. It could be done in a number of ways *theoretically* (mentioned a few in OP*.

I know a lot about ants, but not much about termites aside that hey are generally somewhat similar to ants in a lot of ways.

>>6128921
I hypothesize that they could differentiate gold from something else based on their chemical receptors that they use for communication, and the way the spread about/scout an area. Imagine setting up a colony and a machine that contains food in an area. Leaving it for a year and coming back with concentrated spots of gold. 'Green' sustainable mining if I've ever heard of it.

>>6128911
>using ants to dig up gold
>not using kelating algae in the oceans
step up your game.

>>6128949

All you need to know is that termites are primarily vegetarians. Ants will eat you.

Bumping for SCIENCE!

why try training ants which is first of all retarded ass all hell, when you can just make robot ants designed to search for gold with a spectrometer Robots are the future man...

>>6129427

Not a terrible concept either, I just figured they're already biologically efficient. Have a huge swarm of robots powered by a solar field mine an area. I like it.

Set it up, have it automate for a year, collect gold. When an area is mined have it move to a new area.

I only really know bacterial genetics, but here are some thoughts.

Ants are not a commonly used organism in genetics. This leads to two problems. First, as best as I can tell, this means that reliable methods for transforming them haven't really been developed. You could try altering the techniques used to mess with Drosophila to fit ants, but that would be a hell of a lot of work. Finding something akin to the P-element transposon that works in ants would probably be easiest.

Second, even if you have the techniques to genetically engineer ants, how do you figure out what genes you're actually going to stick in there? With Drosophila, you've got a whole library of different known promoter systems to work with, that can express genes at varying levels, in different temporal/spatial patterns, and interact with known transcription factors, enhancers, etc.. A lot of that probably won't work in an ant system, so you're left in the dark.

We know that ants can communicate by use of chemical signals. I'm sure someone somewhere has even identified what exactly many of those chemical are, and what information they relay. However, do you really think that there's a chemical signal for "bring me gold"? Do ants even have the physical ability to differentiate between gold and not-gold? Are you ready do engineer a new gold receptor, and figure out how to properly express that in ants, and have it appropriately trigger into the ants nervous system? While theoretically possible, it would be a nightmare to do.

Also, are ants even capable of digging through and breaking rock? Because if not, they're going to have a hell of a hard time actually finding gold.

Bottom line: interesting idea, but the groundwork to get started simply isn't there. You'd be far better off engineering ant-inspired robots.

>>6129471

This is the /sci/ I love, ty fr the input.

I have other ideas I'd like to test, I have somewhat of a knack for odd ideas like this. I write them all down, you never know.

>>6129471
>>6128911
I agree with this. Additionally OP, have you considered the ant's work ethic? What happens if they begin to value gold more than food? If ants were able mine all the gold wouldn't the basis of the global economy be at stake?

>>6129494
No because the global economy is ties to the Market not gold anymore silly. Although a bunch of gold chain wearing ants would be terrifying.

>>6129471
this is some grade A help OP. If you don't mind a bit of drudge work yourself, creating a drosophila fly that can smell out gold veins would be better, although you'd then have to get someone done there to actually get it.

if you're going to go to all that trouble there is probably something better than gold you could be having them do, and easier. like farming a particularly useful kind of fungus, or develop them into an alternative crop fertilization mechanism to replace vanishing bees.

really ants are too small, too prone to mutation, too totally unaccountable-for and uncontrollable to fuck with. i had considered something like OP but with crows trained to gather trash (it's been done on a small scale). this would of course be much easier than genetic modification. but the problem is they would also be smart enough to inevitably break the reward mechanism in any number of ways.

fuck organics and fuck self-replicating machines. not worth the risk or the hassle.

Herodotus would approve, OP. Have you considered using marmots instead of ants, though?

also, remember that gold doesn't have a "smell" in the sense that it isn't a particle wafting through the air that an olfactory receptor could attach too. I'm trying to think of an animal that actively searches for a mineral for nutritional reasons.

>>6129516
Try butterflies, they land on the sides of mud/silt puddles looking for something, im guessing it has to be mineral

>>6129494

No, the mining company would just be immensely massive and profitable. It would ADD to the global economy.

>>6129496
I'd imagine a colony of ants/termites 1m+ strong could do some serious scouting/digging/collecting collectively.

>>6129512
will consider

>>6129513
Interesting angle to it.

As far as the crop pollination thing with the bees. I was thinking about a theoretical system of 'robotic bees' that are charged wirelessly via a Tesla coil like system constantly feed computer guided bees to pollinate a field.

I think some scientists just came up with a bee like robot so this isnt far off.

>>6129515
I'll give that a quick browse. I'm glad some ancient pondered similar thoughts haha.

>>6129516
Ants burrow, i figure they're natures miners. That's why I selected them. Now I must figure out the feasibility and possible mechanisms to change their behavior appropriately.

I'm on a quest here. At least to theoretically understand.

>>6129520
Perhaps.

I'm sure a number of insects may have varying interesting properties. They've came up with remote controlled cockroaches. Google it you'll find it.


Thx for input so far guys keep it coming.

check this vid about ant tunnels, its pretty cool
http://www.dump.com/biggestant/

Incredible idea, I didn't realise they let you do this kind of thing. Best of luck and maybe you'll invent a new species!

>>6129529
I don't see ants as being particularly good at moving materials, especially gold. Ants are great at locating X and have a complex method of proliferating this information to their colony. I can imagine using ant colonies to locate the gold, yet (I am ignorant on modern mining methods) I assume humans are very efficient at reaching gold when they know where it is.
>>6128911
You are going to need to change the behavior of members of a colony to search for gold. To do this you are going to have a lot of work on your plate. First off you need to understand the neuronal network of an ant and the genetic basis for the network's structure. Then you need to figure out how to alter this complex system to output the behavior you have decided upon. Finally, you need to apply this knowledge in the lab which will need to be state of the art in the year 2020.

You could engineer them to need gold as part of their digestive process. While loads will starve to death initially some may develop a genetic mutation that causes them to seek out and eat gold. Maybe.

The will all die. Arthropods are very susceptible to heavy metal bio-accumulation and poisoning. Plus they need to eat, obviously.

Fuck your idea OP, try this
>>6129427
And give them wings, and huge claws, and scorpion tails and shit

>>6129560
Unlikely, a huge change like diet would probably result in complete death of the subjects, given that they starve before they reproduce. >>6129602
>making flying scorpion-like robot ants
>pic related

>>6128911
Get a fuckload of antfarms..
Kill all of the queens not attracted to shiny/particulate associated with gold ore in gold rich environments
Keep repeating constantly..

>>6130282
Or just do robuts like anon said...
Make an perforated induction charger/router
Have ants perform predefined roles:
i.e. networking ants/testing ants/survey ants/carry ants/corrosive ants(for dissolving/testing for gold) have it interface with a suped up laptop
If the microchips are compact enough, servos strong enough, you can fit an induction cable/radio in, have a "call function" (router acts as"queen" to call back for nutrients/keep for pickup/help other ants through networking ants and their added computing capability)

You might be on to something
Biologically, it would take a fuckload of time..

>>6129471
>With Drosophila, you've got a whole library of different known promoter systems to work with, that can express genes at varying levels, in different temporal/spatial patterns, and interact with known transcription factors, enhancers, etc..

What if I/we invented machine that automates checking of symptons of each phenotype/allele (whatever the correct word is cba to check) of the library, machine that would test each of the gene to millions of ants (place whatever organism here) simultaneously?

>>6129488
>I have other ideas I'd like to test, I have somewhat of a knack for odd ideas like this. I write them all down, you never know.

you are VISIONER bro and be "proud"(happy) of it.

>>6130319

I hope that guy in your pic isn't a visioner as well, lol.

>>6130292
Yeah, This is what I was thinking with the wireless charging/tesla coil powering a recharge field that powers all the robots. Since they're robots the size can be scaled to really anything we'd want. Perhaps larger automated robots may be better here. loryle carried

>>6128911

maybe you can splice ants with magpies

>>6128911
>lright /sci/ how do I go about genetically engineering ants to want to go out and collect and dig up gold, or at least concentrate it in one area.

Not sure if it's true but I heard a story; They have long used trained baboons to harvest figs in india.
One day someone got the bright idea to train them to collect scrap copper for recycling. The baboons learned to recognize copper and collected a lot. The problem was it's hard for a baboon to look at a piece of copper and tell if it already belongs to someone. They jusst stole any copper they saw.
How are your ants going to know that this gold is someone elses wedding band?

>>6130781
Euro/sci/ detected.
Here in N. America we have a small mammal, the packrat, with similar behaviour. If they are already carrying something and see something they like more they will drop the first thing to get the new one. So sometimes you can set down a diamond ring and later find a foil gum wrapper there. Other times you might drop a foil gum wrapper and a packrat will leave a diamond ring in it's place.

Sounds like a job for natural selection, mix gold and foodstuffs and pick the ants that pick the gold (but not some other kind of decoys). Problem: ants come in colonies and are going to be real hard to natural select.

>>6130882
magpies live here too.
I'm pretty sure I saw some in Death Valley

The guy earlier mentioned a "Visioneer"

What type of profession is good for such people aside from general entrepreneurship. Advice on this is more important to me than you could imagine.

Your best bet is with minerals that are typically associated with gold lodes and engineer a plant so that the particular mineral signals the transcription of a certain gene that generates a morphological change.

>>6131137
>aside from general entrepreneurship.
That's the only real answer, with a profession you're expected to be someone's employee other than your own, being an entrepreneur and starting your own business is the only way your ideas can be fully implemented with your sole control over them. Hence why a lot of scientists go into industry later on after academia (and a lot fail too).

>>6131137

im afraid this is a question you have to find out yourself.


I myself meditate, express myself and try to fulfill my "dream", my purpose. As a researcher of medicine. (medical university). If I had to give advice; understand your potential, aim as high as you can, break it into steps, do it, you fail but try again until you can do it. Make your own destiny -> no depression.

i actually fucking edited this post maybe 20 times (or rewrited, whatever)

dunno how to do this part of this post but i am anyways same person as i am: >>6130319 aka "35889898 104"

>>6131199

Genuine good advice, ty.

>>6131154

I figured. I have a list of things I'm about to potentially try to go to some VC's with. I live in NY so I can get access to many NYC firms.

>>6131152

Yeah, theres a few ways I think I could execute this. As far as researching goes maybe I'll try to convince my school to hire me to research it when I graduate if I write great grant letters backed by a number of professors.

Who knows.

>>6128911
We king Solomon now.

>>6129471
>>6129427
>>6130766
>>6129436

OP, if you make a self-replicating mining robot, you don't need to mine gold, you can sell high value parts from robots.

Now one thing that makes self-replicating robots a lot easier is the ability to 'grow' a microprocessor. We have already used DNA based self-assembly to assemble nanotransistors from carbon nanotubes and someone was able to use genetically engineered yeast prions to make conductive nanowires from gold and silver nanoparticles.


Now if you could just find a way to make nanotransistors without the carbon nanotubes...

>>6131318

Somewhat, I love gold. But I also LOVE science.

>>6131329

Elaborate further. I must learn more.

>>6131329
DNA origami can bind carbon nanotubes, DNA will only bind to certain DNA sequence, so one can use DNA origami to bind two nanotubes together in a shape that forms a nanoswitch.

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=13470.php

But it is difficult to produce carbon nanotubes biologically.