/sci/ - Science & Math

20 years is several orders of magnitude too short.

Shit, tons of it. Ship all the shit in the world. Dookey everywhere.

Think about what this would do, and say I am crazy. It would work.

LOADS AND LOADS OF SHIT.

I pay all the sciencist to come up with ideas.

10/10 op

If you're serious, doing something like this isn't possible in 20 years. It would take thousands and even then mars doesn't have the mass to sustain such an atmosphere. Mars will never be terraformed, even with infinite funds and access to the technology required, it would make sense.
>lets build hundreds of mass drivers, get them into space and harvest ice chunks in the kuiper belt, then lets fly those mass drivers all the way back to mars and de orbit them.

Lol

>>6079867
Tons of methane heating up the atmosphere and melting the ice forming seas, lakes, rivers etc. Moisture in the atmosphere and cycles of evaporation and weather.

MY GOD. IT WOULD WORK.

LOADAS AND LOADS OF SHIT.

>>6079857

Mars isn't massive enough to keep a dense atmosphere like Earth's. There's no hope of fixing that.

>>6079863
>>6079871
>>6079892
op didn't ask for excuses. you fucks don't get to come to new earth. where kasia clones are a vermin problem

>>6079892
Atmosphere bleedoff would occur over such a long time frame that any group that could create an atmosphere in the first place could maintain it.

Nuke it from orbit.
Nuke it until it starts behaving.
Nuke it some more.
Introduce radiation loving bacteria that fart CO2
Introduce CO2 loving algae that fart O2
Find benign gas to replace N2.

>>6079857
Can't be done

I'd send out 100s of mass-produced spacecraft from the newly-built Lunar Manufacturing Zone, aka "Selenia". The ships and their crews would be launched via several mass drivers that follow the lunar equator. Their mission: Scout and intercept comets and carbonaceous asteroids, based upon updated calculations, and then build simple mass drivers or ion thrusters on those bodies. The goal: Redirect enough of them to impact Mars and thicken its atmosphere via outgassing and ejecta. Pure brute force approach.

Name of the project: Air-ez. LOL!

>>6079857
>>6079871
PHASE:1

before you garden, you must have tools. Nuke-powered automated factories are a must, as a robotic work force will speed up this process immensely. The heavy elements needed(iron ,cobalt,copper,etc) are definitely present to some degree, anything wacky could probably be brought from earth/moon/asteroids. Phase one should consist only of scouting/mining/building:factories/robot excavators, etc

Phase:2
Your basic issues are: Too cold, Too thin an atmosphere, Too much CO2, Too much radiation.
The first and easiest step is plant life. Introducing simple algae and lichens will begin the process and building processing plants will give you additional control and support for atmospheric transformation. Biophorming will turn all the CO2 into oxygen as well as reinforcing the atmosphere. Over time more complex plant life can be added so as to to speed up the process. This also helps stabilize the terraforming effort. On the mechanical side thanks to mars's stabilized Tectonic activity, drilling Mo-holes into the crust(kilometer deep holes) will release heat and help warm the atmosphere as well as power geothermal plants to provide more power.

PHASE: 3
though the addition of ice asteroids from the belt would help, the melting of mars's poles will already contribute oxygen and water, constructing mirror apparatus could help deflect more sun towards the atmosphere and warm it as well. by this point the biosphere should have extensive plant life and begin to introduce animal life to help balance it. Additional steps could include breaking down H20 for the hydrogen, or importing needed elements from elsewhere.

This is a basic plan but some things to note:
Mars will need constant maintenance to regulate it's climate, it will never be fully automatic.

20 years is definitely not doable, at best maybe 2-500 years, depending on conditions.

Certain areas will never be habitable, Olympus Mons will always be too tall.

>20 years

UUUH lots of sulfur hexafluroide?

>>6079892
'sup

>>6079857
unlimited funds you say? geodesic biodome the entire planet. fin.

>>6079975
At this point you might as well build your own planet from scratch

>>6079871

>mars doesn't have the mass to sustain such an atmosphere

Current knowledge dictates, near lack of atmosphere on mars has nothing to do with it's mass. Mars's atmosphere would be more or less like earth's, if it had not lost it's magnetic field, allowing solar wind to slowly break up the atmosphere. Earth would be like mars, if it's magnetic field had died in it's early history like did on mars.

This process took hundreds of millions of years in mars, so there's plenty of time to replenish the atmosphere once it has been reintroduced.

>>6079871

>mars doesn't have the mass to sustain such an atmosphere

Current knowledge dictates, near lack of atmosphere on mars has nothing to do with it's mass. Mars's atmosphere would be more or less like earth's, if it had not lost it's magnetic field, allowing solar wind to slowly break up the atmosphere. Earth would be like mars, if it's magnetic field had died in it's early history like it did on mars.

This process took hundreds of millions of years in mars, so there's plenty of time to replenish the atmosphere once it has been reintroduced.

>>6079857
Wouldn't unlimited funds simply inflate whatever fucking currency you'd be using?
Even precious metals, the price of which is based on their scarcity?
Economy is a science, r-right g-guys?

>>6079995
Actually it has everything to do with its mass. The reason the magnetic filed was lost was due to the core having solidified, so no flowing metals so no magnetic field. This was due to the surface area of the planet being too close to its volume as a ratio.

Alternate plan: Using same Lunar Manufacturing Zone, send out construction crews and material into Martian orbit and build what mirror system that's needed, to increase insolation upon Mars. Increasing heat input should cause Martian surface to outgas. This scheme might actually work within the 20-year limit.

>>6080019
>>6079995
I was under the impression it was because a catastrophic event happened on Earth. Adding a shit ton of energy to the Earth and fracturing off a good chunk that became the moon.

>>6079857
put it in a bottle then put water and trees in it
done, mars is habitable

>>6080117
actually, this is most plausible.

I thought of a system where you would build subterranean system of underground vaults and giant bunkers with a terraformed space inside. You can use giant solar power fields above for artificial light and fiber optic solar collectors for light. It would be self contained. Many little bottles with trees on mars under ground.

It would work even better on the moon. Avoid radiation by being underground. No shit domes to build either. Just digging.

>>6079946
Why is it so yellow?

Is there sulfur in there?

>>6080169
methane

>>6079946
bullshit. It doesn't compare to Earth's atmosphere. It's fucking FREEZING on titan. If it was closer to the sun, the atmosphere would be stripped off.

Titan is cool though. Send robots.

>>6080019
although true, I believe the person you were replying to was intending to mean that the gravitational field of mars, which is dictated by its mass, is such that it could hold an atmosphere barring the erosive forces of the solar wind.

>>6079931

Did somebody say Olympus Mons? Electric Universe Theory inbound.

I build a habitable planet.

Find a large comet, smash it into the thing then start splitting up the water and nitrogen compounds to make a workable atmosphere. This is my best guess. Use multiple comets if you don't have enough of something.

>>6080263
>harnessing a comet and steering it

Yeah, imagine an exploding missile flying at thousands of miles per hour only worse than that/

How would you do this exactly?

>>6080275
You just have to get it to hit. Pick a comet that already will have a close approach and deflect it sufficiently. The biggest problem would be the time scale involved more so than the comet problem.

>>6080282

>implying Newtonian gravitation mechanics

When will you stupid /sci/ faggots realize that The Electric Universe Theory is the only way.

>>6080282
ceres is much closer to mars. Mars, like most planets is full of volatiles (like water, and especially water). It might just need a big impact to liquify the surface and start over.

It might work. It worked for Earth. Comparatively, you need very little water on the surface of a planet to sustain life. If Mars ever had water, then it's still there- just locked in the crust and mantle.

>>6080282
>>6080275
>implying comets wouldn't just "steer" themselves as gasses explode off of them in an unpredictable manner.

>>6080299

lol

>implying those jets we see on comets are gasses

Deep Impact never found water or ice

>>6080390
So if comets aren't made of water, why are we going through the trouble of smashing it into mars again?

>>6080230
I wish they would put up Symbols of an Alien Sky 2 on youtube already. They put up ep 1 and 3 and I don't understand why they are holding back on #2. I've watched it but I wish more people could see it.

>>6079908
Why not produce a thicker ozone layer? Like, 100 feet thick? Would that be able to keep the atmosphere from blowing away?

>>6079931
Fuck your mirrors, let's put a giant microwave dish in orbit of Mars, and just heat it up with gamma radiation.

>>6080208
They wanted to send a ship there, once. A ship. On a moon. With seas made of liquid methane. A SHIP.

Too bad the money went to the already bloated budget of another silly Mars rover

>>6079857
>You have unlimited funds
Money is not the issue, assuming you could utilize all 7 billion people on earth who are all magically upscaled to high tech skills, without the need to eat, drink, sleep or for leisure. I doubt you could do it. Maybe if you could also magically manage the project perfectly then it might be possible

>>6080510
I heard titan was covered in a tar-like substance. What would that do to instruments and cameras??

>>6080524
Still wouldn't be. R&D takes time, and living organisms take time to grow.

With truly unlimited funds and all of Earth's resources at my disposal, I bet I could do it in a century and a half, maybe two centuries. If all you want is an atmosphere you need an oxygen mask for, but not a pressure suit, and some living organisms on the surface (lichen), it could maybe be done in 50.

>>6080466
> microwave
> gamma wave
choose one

>>6080016
>Wouldn't unlimited funds simply inflate whatever fucking currency you'd be using?

huehuehue

You're being an asshole.

Money is not a problem. Energy is. To generate an atmosphere for Mars in 20 years it will be of great benefit to maximize your energy handling capacity to the max. Every single drop of energy you can scrape together will be important.

That said. I suggest a fuckhuge space based magnifying glass to begin blasting parts of the Martian surface with hot beams. It's not going to be hugely useful in itself but it's passive and gets the ball rolling.

>>6079931
>Nuke-powered automated factories are a must, as a robotic work force will speed up this process immensely

You're going to design and deploy a nuclear powered automated factories within 20 years?

>>6080612
hey slaves built the pyramids in 20 years with shitty technology

>>6080169
literally lakes of methane on its surface

>>6079872
And it would fertilize the ground for farming and likely bring along important microorganisms and some active planet seeds that use it as a growth vector.

>>6080425

It's there.

>>6080398

Because people think they're made of water and ice.

>>6079857
The main thing you need to do before you even think about terraforming Mars is regenerating its magnetic field in some manner. The best method (if possible) would be to restart the core of the planet, which has mostly solidified. Once that's done, you can terraform it.

>>6080723
Why would we need to do that? Won't just increasing the atmosphere's density provide considerable shielding from space radiation?

And yes, the lack of magnetosphere will cause solar wind to slowly strip off the atmosphere, but this process is SLOW. A Terraformed Mars with no magnetic field would hold on to its atmosphere for over a million years.

>>6080726
I was thinking in terms of a more permanent solution. We would have to continually re-generate the atmosphere as it's sheared off. This may be the easiest solution but not a cost effective one. We would also need to prepare for changes in intensity of the solar winds and CMEs. A good hit from a CME could cause quite a bit of atmospheric damage.

>>6080744
Serious question: Then why is Venus' atmosphere so dense? It's much closer to the Sun that Mars is, and it has no magnetic field.

>>6080598
I'll take gamma, more energy.

>>6080398
It is a very simple and efficient way to heat the surface to melt the frozen water and CO2 to make a nicer environment.

>>6079857
>You have unlimited funds and 20 years give mars a breathable atmosphere. How do you do it?
I send a rocket to mars with a scuba tank of air.
>didn't say the atmosphere had to be available to all of the planet

>>6080019
But would mars' gravity be able to hold a habitable atmosphere, disregarding the very slow process of it being stripped away by solar wind?

>>6079995
If what you say was true, Venus wouldn't have an atmosphere.

>>6081106
Venus does have significantly higher gravity than Mars, though.

Then again, it's also about the same gravity as Earth, AND much hotter (which facilitates thermal atmosphere escape), but it has no magnetosphere and its atmosphere STILL manages to be actually denser than ours.

>>6081106
And remember, Earth's magnetic field has shifted directions several times in the past, and during those periods the magnetosphere almost completely collapsed - but life on Earth remains present. A livably thick atmosphere might provide enough radiation shielding that a magnetosphere isn't 100% necessary.

>>6079871
What if we were to redirect asteroids to Mars? It's near the Asteroid belt, and all we'd need to do is slow the rocks down a bit or otherwise fuck with their orbit, then just sit back and let The Sun and Mars do the rest of the work.
How much heavier does Mars need to be?

>>6081121
>The total mass of the asteroid belt is estimated to be 2.8×1021 to 3.2×1021 kilograms, which is just 4% of the mass of the Moon

You'll never be able to terraform a planet, planet's are too big. You've yet to populate the whole of Earth, it will take thousands of years to make a planet habitable. Stop dreaming and wasting while you dream, and start thinking more on this planet before you break it for good you deranged overpowered nerds.

years 1-2: use unlimited funds to gain power in human civilization and eventually implement a totalitarian state to effectively gather its resources for our efforts, mainly scientific, there will be a global program of education to find the finest minds, educate them and use them to develop any technology that might help achieve OP's objectives

The following ideas may not be ideal but I believe they are pretty feasible given what I understand

years 3+: ease of transportation to mars is an obvious hurdle to be overcome, many one way trips with a single rocket might be the most cheap and effective, another alternative is for 3 stages, cargo is rocketed out of the earth's atmosphere, connected to a transporter which takes it to mars, disconnected from the transporter and dropped on mars, the transporter then returns to earth to receive more fuel and transport another load of cargo

years 5+: Build giant mirrors that orbit mars. Introduce tolerable levels of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere mix later.

http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/2002/06/e/index.htm

years 6+: Begin building the colony in the deepest part of mars, every 1000 meters lower, means millions less cubic kilometers of gas is needed to cover the rest of mars in order to achieve the necessary pressure at the colony. Excavating even deeper might be an idea.

years 8+: By far the biggest challenge is producing the gas. Industrial facilities on mars supported by nuclear fuel and other supplies from earth would begin producing nitrogen and oxygen on a massive scale using resources available on mars.

>>6081145
I know right. We know there is oil in antarctica yet despite how much we obviously love oil we haven't even begun to colonize it, just built a few cabins here and there.

>>6081176
why would you ever "colonize" antarctica? Theres plenty of room in places that are not shitholes.

>>6081176
The reason we haven't colonized Antarctica is actually very similar to the reason we haven't colonized space: By international treaty, nobody is allowed to own any part of Antarctica as private property, and no nation is allowed to claim territory there. I guarantee you, Antarctica would be seeing far more exploitation if people were actually allowed to own things there.

>>6081182
Also, by international treaty, we're not allowed to drill for oil there.

>>6080510
They sent a probe once, I think it was attached to cassini. Lakes of methane behaving like water. Ice frozen as hard as rock, being eroded by the rivers of methane. Volcanoes of slushy ice.

It probably smells horrible.

There is a way.
First you need to place Arnie in the Total recall machine and make him book a vacation to mars.
Then he will loose his mind and within weeks Mars will be terraformed. Don't need 20 years just arnie and a total recall device.

>>6080466

Are you implying that the gamma irradiation of Mars will make it bigger and green?

>>6079857
Use Beastmen knowledge of biology to breed superior terraforming plants and "Martian" knowledge of electromagnetism to generate artifiecial magnetic field as strong as Earth's to keep atmosphere from escaping to space. Fully terraform the planet in less that one year.

Juts like in Afterlight...

Alright noobs. Listen up because I have an original solution. Lets assume we want to replicate Earths magnetic field on Mars.
>>minimum magnetic field on earths surface B=25uT.
>>distance from sun Earth divided by distance Mars
>>150 Giga meters / 228 Giga meters.
Lets assume that Mars is smaller so it needs a proportionately smaller field.
>>radius Mars divided by radius Earth
>>3.4 Mega meters / 6.4 Mega meters
B field required so far=
(150/228)(3.4/6.4)25uT=8.7uT
Mars geosynchronous orbit minus radius =13.6 Mega meters
Now this next step I might be wrong, even if I am, the solution is only easier.
B field in orbit requires less than surface.
>>3.4/17=.2 exactly lel
>>8.7uT(.2)=1.7uT
Apply Amperes Law.
r=distance between satellites in network
N=turns in solenoid
current=BN(2pir)/u
>>1.7uT(10)(2pi)(100)/4pix10-7=85 Amps
Satellite solar panels must supply 85 Amps.
Satellite parts: solar panels+solenoid
>>HERES THE CATCH
area Mars orbit=36.3 TERA meters (sphere)
area that one satellite will cover= 31.42 kilo meters (circle)
(36.3T/31.42k)=115.5 Million satellites.

>>6081785
Extra bonus solution because I'm an engineering genius...
All this material can be moved efficiently and cheaply with terestrial magnetic guns. Current designs are retarded. Take a solenoid and make it big. Put the satellite inside instead of a plunger. I wont post the math I did, but I 100 meter tall solenoid made of 345kV transmission wire will require ~1350 amps for a couple seconds to give a 10 kg projectile escape velocity. This method should be used to produce factories in orbit and the shoot them again to mars. The answer to so much is SOLENOIDS WHOOOO!

>>6081318
oh my god
WHAT IF THIS ACTUALLY WORKED.

>>6081139
The solution is a moon.
Take a moon of Jupiter's, get it to escape velocity, and time it so it hits Mars.

And if that don't work, use more moon.
Send out probes to every moon in the solar system, timing them to hit Mars. The surface becomes molten. We get huge rockets attached to mars, get it on an orbit taking it waaaay out of the sun to cool it, and then return its orbit to what it was once it comes around again.

Boom, Mars is now more massive. And it has water. And then we take a space ship and get two of every animal (fuck sustainable breeding populations, we inbread now) and put them on Mars and watch the planet evolve itself.

Unlimited funds are irrelevant. We won't be able to terraform another planet before our civilization becomes a Type I on the Kardashev scale.

>>6081801
The problem is that once you leave the gun, you're going to be going at escape velocity - but you're going to run head-first into the atmosphere. You need MUCH more energy to not only reach escape velocity, but to punch through the atmosphere in the process - it'd literally have to me a meteorite in reverse, leaving a plasma trail of superheated air behind it. And then there's the problem of having the payload survive both the G-force of acceleration AND of the sudden deceleration when it hits the atmosphere at many, many times terminal velocity, which is going to be difficult even if the projectile is just a solid block of metal.

>>6079857
Just send up continuous, never-ending nuclear missiles into orbit to produce a new Van Allen belt.

build that 8000000ton orion they proposed and smash it into one of the poles at like 1psl lol

>>6081111
That's a lie though.

>>6081785
I'd hashed out an idea like that before, but it's been a while since I've done any electromag so I couldn't think of the details, but you did a good job.

I like you

>>6082053
THANKS BRO! You made my unemployed day a little brighter.
I made a mistake earlier. Mars orbit area is 3.63 PETA meters. So I would need 11.5 TRILLION satellites.
So continuing on. Since 115T satellites might be hard to make, what about a ground based artificial field? Lets take the original answer and use Mars surface area.
>>Area=4(pi)(3.4M)^2 = 145.3 Tera meters
>>(145.3T/31.42k)=4.6 Billion stations.
Surface area of Mars= 36.3 Trillion meters cubed
station distribution:
>>One station every 7.9 KILO meters.
>>station is about the size of a small house.

>>6080164
Well, it's a plan of NASA. One of the more plausible ones for a longterm marsexpedition.

>>6081823

Pulling away one of Jupiter's moons would be a formidable energy expenditure. How do you propose to power the mass launchers, ion drives and whatnot that you setup on the moon's surface for propulsion?

I just did a few calculations, and found that the force holding Luna to Earth is 1.958x10^20 N, but the force holding Europa (a juicy watery target) to Jupiter is 1.108x10^22 N... about 57 times larger.