/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6066587
>CS

>>>/g/aylords

>>6066587
Software engineers, indeed, are shitwads.

However, computer scientists are different. They're mathematicians that study computability, which is interesting as any other subject in math.

i took my data structures exam today. waiting outside the room, not only were they all stupid during their last minute studying, the autism was profound. too bad i like the subject.

Yes.
Computer science majors who lack introspection

>>6066587
CS major here. The real CS majors are math geeks who also like computers/algorithims/data structures/logic and obviously math. You are thinking about software developers/engineers.

>>6066906
>They're mathematicians
>>6066932
>math geeks

No they are not and stop spreading that filthy libel

lol, itt engineers mad they are too stupid to think on a higher playing field like comp sci master race

>>6066906
mathematicians that are interested in computability study mathematical logic, not cs

no matter how many times its said, computer scientists aren't mathematicians

>tfw computer science majors are the business majors of people who aren't clinically retarded
anyone get what im talking about?

>>6067129
yup, assholes talking about how much bank they're going to make, and will only do anything with a picture in the back of their minds about how it come up during job interviews

>>6067132
>yup, assholes talking about how much bank they're going to make, and will only do anything with a picture in the back of their minds about how it come up during job interviews
what?

Most programmers I've seen are fucking chill-but I have heard of early comp sci majors being dickholes. Maybe computer science attracts terrible people, and they all get weeded out by the end? Or maybe computer science just makes you a better person, I dunno.

>>6067129
Yeah, it's ironic when people study business to make money, but in so doing they're only teaching themselves how to market the unique skills they aren't learning.
Comp sci majors go straight for a marketable skill. Shitty job security though

>>6067527
>and they all get weeded out by the end
Not always.
The annoying ones aren't always incompetent.

>>6066906

>software "engineers"

2muchautism4me, I'm out

>CS
>app

Instead of making a thread I'll ask here. What could a CS "scientist" has to research that is more intriguing that physics, biology or any other well-established real science?

I'm not trolling, it just seems that most of the CS students want to build web apps or software to make a buck instead of rigorous research.

>>6066587
>CS
>programming
HAHAHAHA! What's the matter? CS too hard for you?
CS is for people too smart to do nothing with their lives in math, or to do pointless menial tasks like in engineering.

>>6067527
>Starting comp sci at uni
>Few people wearing Bazinga! shirts
>One person decided that a lecture on databases was the perfect time to launch an attack on organised religion.
>Worryingly high number of people bringing macbooks to lectures.

>>6067869
You don't learn math. You don't learn programming. You don't learn hardware. You don't learn management or social skills. What DO you even learn as a CS student?

Seriously, with a CS degree alone and without further qualifications you are unemployable. No employer needs someone who barely learned to make babby's first java GUI or how to draw finite automata. If we're going only with the qualifications you acquire in a BSc in computer science, you'll be easily outperformed by any high school nerd who invested some of his free time into learning the basics of hacking.

A CS degree is only worthwhile for people who already have a job in computer related industry and want a legal reason to demand higher salary.

>>6067860
>most of the CS students want to build web apps
That's not CS. That's programming. The thing is, CS as a degree has only existed since halfway through the 60's. Universities still don't know how to split CS into a set of meaningful degrees. Real CS is about complexity, cryptography, machine learning, computational fields, computability, constructive logic, game theory, quantum computing, and so on.
CS as a science is much better established as a real science than, say, biology. Before CS degrees, people who worked in CS were strictly math people. A real degree (not a programming degree disguised as a CS degree) will always have a math minor because you can't do shit without it, and several courses will be math courses with a focus on computability rather than application as is the case of math. Even then, the REAL CS courses are really only available at the master's level, because one needs a lot of knowledge from diverse fields for CS research.
CS is the one science closest to mathematics:
anything that is ever proven will always be true. It's not about discovery, it's about reasoning. Just like in math.

Also,
>computer science scientist

>>6067860
AI & Robotics

>>6067883
>computer science scientist

This is literally taken from a guy who claimed in his own exact words what he is after graduating. No bs.

>>6067883
>anything that is ever proven will always be true

I'm game.

>>6067881
U wot m8?
You get a math minor. Furthermore, all the real courses are math with focus on computation theory.
You learn programming as programming is the tool of choice in CS (the same way math people HAVE to learn fortran, statisticians HAVE to learn R, and so on).
Basic hardware classes are also mandatory (because in part of reasoning on circuits), including VHDL and CPU design.
Management and social are not in any way part of CS, that's SE.

>Seriously, with a CS degree alone and without further qualifications you are unemployable.
That is the opposite of truth. With a CS degree alone, you get a minimum $50k job as a code monkey and there's no shortage of job in the next 100 years. You can't do non-university research on a BSc in any field. This point is moot.

>A CS degree is only worthwhile for people who already have a job in computer related industry and want a legal reason to demand higher salary.
Not at all. You don't get a code monkey job without either an SE degree or a CS degree (or connections). SE leads you into management, CS into development.

Furthermore, CS research is the only meaningful technology-related area of research.

>>6067895
>Furthermore, all the real courses are math with focus on computation theory.
CS students do not learn enough math to go deeper into computation theory than a shallow intro on high school level.

>You learn programming
CS students do not learn much programming. They get an intro to java. Any kid who programmed a project for fun knows more than a CS student who only took his programming courses.

>Basic hardware classes are also mandatory
The emphasis lies on "basic". They are short intros and do not qualify you to design new hardware. That would be EE.

>Management and social are not in any way part of CS
"Project management" or "software engineering" are part of any CS curriculum.

>With a CS degree alone, you get a minimum $50k job as a code monkey
How can you work as a code monkey without having acquired any proper programming skills? You can only get such a job, if you already gained the qualifications somewhere else. In a CS curriculum you won't learn much programming. In the words of some of the delusional CS majors in this thread: "CS is not programming".

>You don't get a code monkey job without either an SE degree or a CS degree
That doesn't mean the CS degree qualifies you for a code monkey job. It is only a formal requirement, but the actual qualifications, i.e. the programming skills, are not learned in CS classes.

>CS research is the only meaningful technology-related area of research.
No, that would be EE.

>>6067908
>CS students do not learn enough math to go deeper into computation theory than a shallow intro on high school level.
You just proved you don't even have the slightest clue about the content of CS degrees.

>CS students do not learn much programming. They get an intro to java
And further...

>"Project management" or "software engineering" are part of any CS curriculum.
And further, because there is no more than 2 SE classes in any CS curriculum, unlike SE curriculums, and those do not touch social at all while barely touching project management, and again, they're not part of CS as you've noted yourself

The next two arguments derive from your lack of knowledge of anything at all

>No, that would be EE.
And yet again.

You have effectively beaten your own argument on your own.

Hehe. As an EE major, I'm eating popcorn and watching the drama unfold.

>>6067908
>CS students do not learn enough math to go deeper into computation theory than a shallow intro on high school level.
maybe if you go to a shit school. I may as well just say where I went to school, so there is context: NYU. My friends in CS are all at Ivy league schools for CS, NLP, etc. due to their undergrad research in computation, i.e. not for being code monkeys. CS is in the math department, and kids often take Analysis I & II and at least one Algebra beyond linear as part of a CS major.

>CS students do not learn much programming. They get an intro to java.
most people do a research project with a professor their senior year, which will include programming in a variety of languages depending on the use. So, if you are working for an academic, you will do functional programming, not java.

>"Project management" or "software engineering" are part of any CS curriculum.
These are electives. Most people who want to do applied CS do probability. I minored in Math, and I know this is true, my class was full of them. And this was theory of probability with the big wigs, not stats BS.

>With a CS degree alone, you get a minimum $50k job as a code monkey
don't know about this one, not looking for a job in CS

I'm not even in CS. Just don't make blanket statements that are patently not true.

>>6067918
Very cool projection, Mr Delusional Freshman. I went through the entire curriculum. The math is ridiculous high school shit and the programming is babby crap. Enjoy your lack of qualifications.

>>6067928
>So, if you are working for an academic, you will do functional programming, not java.
Not even just that but a CS curriculum has mandatory
-programming 1 & 2
-data structures
-algorithms
-programming language concepts
classes. There's pretty much a grand total of 3 additional courses that can be taken related to programming itself: compilers, functional languages, and stochastic algorithms. Those are all available as electives. Any further course related to programming is available at the master's level and is meant to be taken solely by people interested at language theory, this is way beyond the scope of programming jobs in industry.

>>6067933
Community college dropouts like yourself need not apply. Also, I have a master's and I'm moving on to a PhD so you didn't take the right guy to try an appeal to authority fallacy on.

>>6066587

CS has a lower skill bracket because there are a thousand different universities with a thousand different courses available and the vast majority of them are complete shit. You usually get obese retards with fedoras whining on about Half Life 3 and how difficult Ruby on Rails is.

A proper CS course at a proper university is a perfectly valid mix of physics, maths, electrical and software engineering and is consequently as difficult and rewarding as any one of them. There are a select group of us that actually push the actual science forward and the other 99% make terrible Android apps.

>>6067953
This is 100% correct.

>>6067892
Have fun.
http://htdp.org/
http://racket-lang.org/download/

>>6067892
Oh, you're asking for examples?
The computational lower bound on comparison-based search.
The computational power of a d-pieces 2-unit maxout network with and its equivalence to a k-unit MLP.
The fact that any piecewise linear function can be expressed as the difference of two convex piecewise linear function.
The unsolvability of the halting problem.
The unsolvability of the K set, and the fact deciding whether an integer is recursive is a strictly harder problem, that is equivalent to the jump of the jump of K (note, I don't know the correct term for jump in English. It's called 'saut' in French, though).

>>6067892
Did you know that the most important advancements of the 20th century in mathematics were advances in computer science?
See information theory, computability theory, complexity theory, operations research, etc.

>>6067860
>it just seems that most of the CS students want to build web apps or software to make a buck instead of rigorous research

It's not that it seems to be that way, it is that way. Undergraduate CS is completely disjoint from any type of graduate education in CS. Undergrad CS is purely daycare for overgrown manchildren retards. Those that want to study CS in graduate school are math or engineering majors.

>>6067883
>Universities still don't know how to split CS into a set of meaningful degrees
>CS as a degree has only existed since halfway through the 60's

Hasn't stopped University from establishing a rigorous and respected program of study for the computer engineering sibling field.

>Even then, the REAL CS courses are really only available at the master's level, because one needs a lot of knowledge from diverse fields for CS research.

100% agree. Undergrad CS programs should completely die off. The only topics that can be covered are either enterprise java code-monkeying or extremely pathetic waterdown CS concepts which majors still fail to understand.

>CS is the one science closest to mathematics

No, that is without a doubt Theoretical Physics. CS doesn't come close to the sheer breath and depth of mathematics that appears in the study of real physics.

>>6067978

Nice joke.

>>6067985
>Hasn't stopped University from establishing a rigorous and respected program of study for the computer engineering sibling field.
That's because it's an engineering discipline and not science.

Are there honestly people who can say "software engineering" without laughing?

>>6067881
>You don't learn math. You don't learn programming. You don't learn hardware. You don't learn management or social skills. What DO you even learn as a CS student?
>Seriously, with a CS degree alone and without further qualifications you are unemployable. No employer needs someone who barely learned to make babby's first java GUI or how to draw finite automata. If we're going only with the qualifications you acquire in a BSc in computer science, you'll be easily outperformed by any high school nerd who invested some of his free time into learning the basics of hacking.

100% this

>A CS degree is only worthwhile for people who already have a job in computer related industry and want a legal reason to demand higher salary.

Only happens in web/app development, IT, or similar <span class="math">lightly[/spoiler] computer related industries.

>>6067895
>Furthermore, all the real courses are math with focus on computation theory

The baby version of computation theory in undergrad does not count as doing math.

>the same way math people HAVE to learn fortran

Not at all true.

>you get a minimum $50k job as a code monkey

The point is, you can do code monkeying jobs with a CS degree since they don't require any real skills or education.

>>6067985
>CS doesn't come close to the sheer breath and depth of mathematics that appears in the study of real physics.
That is irrelevant to the point, though. If I take a picture that contains 100 paintings, is it any more art than a picture of 10 paintings?

The reason why theoretical physics is not as close to math as theoretical CS is because CS and math share the exact same spirit while physics is about discovering and classifying what exists. Because of this, it is inherently an experimental science, even in its theoretical domains, especially compared to CS.

Also, [citation needed] on the depth and breadth of math in th. phys. being higher than in th. CS.

>100% agree. Undergrad CS programs should completely die off.
I disagree. I think it should be better classified. Split CS between "programming", "CS", "computational science" at the undergrad level. Someone majoring in CS would basically take a math degree with some programming courses and computer engineering courses, someone who majors in programming would be the typical code monkey or web dev that CS churns out today, and computational science is computational science as always.

>>6068016
>Not at all true.
Enjoy your unemployment. It is mandatory for any real mathematician to know fortran.

>>6068015
Yes. """ "Software" "Engineers" """

>>6067990
Rest of the world disagrees with you, but that's fine. I'm sure your high horse is perfectly comfortable.

>>6067953
Oh look, it's yet another "CS is crap only at shit schools, at my unnamed school it's super 31337!" straw-man! Let ignore all the countless naysayers and only trust those who think CS is god gift to man.

>A proper CS course at a proper university is a perfectly valid mix of physics, maths, electrical and software engineering and is consequently as difficult and rewarding as any one of them. There are a select group of us that actually push the actual science forward and the other 99% make terrible Android apps.

These don't exist. The closest degree like that is CSE or EECS which is far more like a Computer Engineering degree than a CS one.

>>6068020

I know several mathematicians that don't.

>>6068028
>so retarded he doesn't even know what a strawman is while using the word!

Computer scientists are just brash because they have the ability to make a computer do anything they want

>>6068030
I know the Queen of England. She's my mother. Also she's a unicorn.

>>6068026

Interesting considering you're the first faggot I've ever heard claiming that.

Let's do this.

>yfw cs majors think they're smart

>>6068015
To be fair, the word engineering has cheapened in value ever since we let business school dropout call themselves "industrial engineers". That being said, I still shake my head at codemonkeys calling themselves engineers.

>>6068028

Please learn what a discipline encompasses before using it to demonstrate your own ignorance.

CSE and EECS overlap CS but each branches into its own territory.

>>6066622
>Real science
I don't know about you guys but I found my chemistry be it organic or inorganic and biology classes much easier than my computer science classes. I had to work two times more or computer science courses just to get 85 percent or higher like with biology and chemistry.

>>6068042
>I found it hard therefore it's a real science

>yfw a cs major is learning more about math in their free time than a math major is learning in class

>>6068039

It depends which country you go to. The UK has no formal qualifications to call yourself an engineer besides a few specifics. I could call myself a 'Trolling /pol/ engineer' if I wanted.

>>6068019
>while physics is about discovering and classifying what exists

No, that's more applied physics/chemistry. Theoretical physics starts with established(/new) postulates/axioms and derives the consequences of that systems. Fairly identical to what mathematicians do.

>Also, [citation needed] on the depth and breadth of math in th. phys. being higher than in th. CS.

It's nearly impossible to find a decently sized sub-field of math that isn't applicable in physics

>people disrepectin da ability to automate anything

>>6068042
>organic chem
>biology
>a science

pick exactly one

>>6068044
I didn't say it was hard or a science. Chemistry at least is considered a real science[/spoiler] some trolls say biology isn't one [/spoiler]. I am saying it was harder than chemistry which gets more respect. I don't know maybe I have a natural aptitude for chemistry. Anyone else found their chemistry classes easier?

>>6068047
>It's nearly impossible to find a decently sized sub-field of math that isn't applicable in physics
No citation yet.
You would also have to demonstrate the statement as applied to CS is not true.

>>6068047
Oh, also,
>Fairly identical to what mathematicians do.
Until the theory is disproven. It can even be taken as granted for thousands of years before being proven incorrect. That's not the case with CS or mathematics.

>>6068015

The Software Engineering department at NASA are consistently ranked the best in the world because of the rigorous testing involved in making aerospace software.

Probably them.

>>6068050
Not just organic. I am taking almost all the courses from chemistry department at my university.

>>6068047

This is very true. I only took intro mechanics in undergrad but many years later ended up connecting with theoretical physics purely through math because of reasearch on Kahler manifolds.

>>6068053
Chemistry: trivial.
Biology: trivial.
Programming: trivial.
Calculus: easy to medium.
Analysis: easy.
(real) Algebra: hard.
CS: hard.
Theoretical CS: hard as balls.

>>6068066
Too bad the average CS major only studies calculus and programming.

engineers are worse than cs fags. everyone knows computers these days, so there's only so much bullshit they can sell. dare i say, there's a little bit of humility involved. now engie fags are basically the same illiterate ignorant shits, but what make them worse is that they run totally unchecked.

still non of these are as bad as biologists. muh MD, muh competitiveness.

>>6068069
It really, seriously is. Real theoretical CS is fun as balls. So are the other "hard" CS classes.

>>6068074
Most bio majors I met didn't even care about biology or science for that matter. They just wanted to get into med school to make money or impress their parents.

>>6068066

> cs harder than analysis or algebra

At least try to say something believable if you want to troll properly.

>>6068081
Not my fault you dropped out when you couldn't pass programming 101 so you never got to experience CS.

>>6068081

He probably just took a retardedly watered down calculus with proofs class (that didn't even use baby Rudin) and a babies first vector spaces and/or group theory class meant for math majors going into high school education.

>>6068087
>I'm dumb
>that means nobody can find easy classes easy

>>6068084

Nah, I did pass programming 101, it was the easiest of the dumb requirements you could take to join the math major in undegrad. After that I was just too focused with math to care.

But please enlighten me, what do you see in a "hard" cs class that's harder than any topic in analysis or algebra? Or with analysis and algebra you mean intro real analysis and intro algebra, respectively?

>>6068090
The fact you called it analysis without a quantifier of Real, Complex, Fourier, Functional, etc shows you don't know shit about shit

>>6068099
Analysis 1, analysis 2, matrix analysis and real analysis.

>>6068099
Without a quantifier, it's usually assumed to be real analysis. You don't know shit about shit

Wow what a bunch of nerds why don't you just nerd it up in your nerdotron eight billion and one eights while sucking each others' nerds.

Nerds.

>>6068047
>It's nearly impossible to find a decently sized sub-field of math that isn't applicable in physics
uh set theory? mathematical logic?

>>6068099
you mean qualifier

>generalizing fields of study
cmon, that's not scientific

>>6067985
>No, that is without a doubt Theoretical Physics. CS doesn't come close to the sheer breath and depth of mathematics that appears in the study of real physics.
CS is math.

>not being a brogrammer
>sitting in EOS labs smoking weed wearing sunglasses coding shitty java apps for kids

>shitter at math then mathematicians
>shittier at everything else than EE/comp E
>good at developing apps and html websites

nice fucking field

>>6068237

what exactly do you think mathematicians do?

>nice fucking field

Not even a troll here, 99% or cs graduates wouldn't understand grad level cs because lack of rigorous math in most curriculums. I can post some examples if you are really interested, these books are extremely math heavy.

>>6068246
my university requires up to calc 2 for CS bachelors

but that's not to say i think math is the hardest part of programming. its definitively the logic. 2000+ lines of code gets so fucking confusing

>>6068245
errrr
math? what are you getting at

>>6068253

Not like calc 2 means anything. Also, that's not really logic, at least in the sense a logician would use it.

>>6067944
What is your research about?

>>6068257
bro do you even curry-howard isomorphism

>>6068258
Generative stochastic networks applied to face identification by pose analysis.

>>6067883
>anything that is ever proven will always be true

CS confirmed for can't into science.

>>6068270
>I am retarded therefore facts are fiction!

>>6067928
>maybe if you go to a shit school.
CS curricula are equally shitty at almost all schools.

>kids often take Analysis I & II and at least one Algebra beyond linear as part of a CS major.
So they only take first semester math courses? How is that supposed to support your point?

>So, if you are working for an academic, you will do functional programming, not java.
Functional programming is an academic joke, nothing more. It's not extensively used in the real world.

>Most people who want to do applied CS do probability. I minored in Math, and I know this is true, my class was full of them. And this was theory of probability with the big wigs, not stats BS.
What kind of probability theory? A babby intro doesn't count.

>I'm not even in CS. Just don't make blanket statements that are patently not true.
Everything I said was substantiated.

>>6068253

random page in a book about optimization. I didn't cherry pick this page either, the majority of cs majors could not understand this.

>>6068277
Most uninformed post on /sci/! Congrats, considering most of /sci/ is really /x/, this is quite the achievement!

>>6068213
>set theory

Infinite dimensional complete vectors spaces need their fair share of set theory and logic to define and work with rigorously.

>>6068280
ya i admit i have no idea what the fuck that is. but that's kind of a strange arguement, you could show someone whos never done trig a random page from a trig book and he'd also be confused

>>6068280
So... it's grid-search based optimization?

>>6068292

The point is that taking calc 2 + linear algebra + discrete math does not qualify you as a "mathematician". Your too retarded to do grad level work in your own field, so it's done by EE's/compE's and mathematicians instead.

I realize that there are proper schools that make you take analysis and etc, but how fucking rare are those. This is why you guys will never be respected, the difference in curriculums is too much.

>>6068298
You're so hilarious. Everytime you try to say something I laugh my ass off for at least a minute. You got any more jokes like that one?

>>6068270
Science is empirical shit. Enjoy your induction, faggot.

>>6068302

what's so funny? it's the harsh truth.

>>6068298
well ya, if i wanted to be a respected mathematician i would have gotten a 300k/y (lel) math degree and a research grant.

i think the arguement is more that CS uses high levels of math, maybe not the HIGHEST, but probably more than most other STEM degrees

>>6068298
software engineering drop out reporting in. this thread is making me feel like shit.

dropped out because of ubber laziness. Got into bussiness school because of easy courses. Business has been the shittiest academic experience I have ever had.
I want back into software. This thread is making me feel like studying software engineering is the pinnacle of retardation.

So, general consensus is that you should do undergrad math and then do grad CS?

>>6068315
no you do undergrad math and then grad math

>>6068315
yes or do EE/comp E, and then decide if you even want to do grad school.

>>6068309
Are you a professional comedian? Serious question.

>>6068318
and where do you leave the programming?

>>6068315
You can't do grad CS with undergrad math.
You CAN do grad math with undergrad CS.
Doing grad CS is trivial with undergrad CS if you're not from a community college.

Choose wisely.

>>6068277
>Functional programming is an academic joke, nothing more. It's not extensively used in the real world.
>He can't into declarative programming.
Go back to mutating state, faggot.

>>6068325
>You CAN do grad math with undergrad CS.

0/10

>>6068336
You're such a riot, m8. Where can I see your shows?

>>6068315
if you want to fucking get back into software then do it. don't even have to switch to CS. don't even have to switch to math. CS and math are respected majors but if youre going to flip flop you will never get anywhere. best thing to do is just to learn programming, go to workshops to learn from pros, network, etc.

>>6068281
>oh no, the post shattered my illusions
>use ad hominem!!

Too predictable. But keep it up. Show us how immature you are.

Computer Science is the bastard child of mathematics. Enough said.

Alan Turing, Alonzo Church, Jon Von Neumann, and many others who contributed to the foundations of CS where mathematicians.

pic very related Princeton University Professor Alonzo Church

>>6068325
>You CAN do grad math with undergrad CS
such as

>>6068302
>no reasonable response
>spam insults!!!!

You forgot your /b/ reaction image, kid.

does /sci/ get off on calling out logical fallacies?

>>6068325

>You CAN do grad math with undergrad CS.

>>6068325
>You CAN do grad math with undergrad CS.

maximum overb8

>>6068346
>where mathematicians.
Only because there was no CS degree before the latter half of the 60's. Daily reminder.

>>6068348
>>6068347
>>6068343
>>6068344
>>6068341
>>6068336
Typical basement dwelling /x/ -- I mean /sci/ -- retards with delusions of grandeur who would rather live in their mutually enabled illusion than the real world. How typical!

>>6068356
A "CS degree" should have never been invented. CS had its place as an interdisciplinary field, distributed between maths and physics. That was fine and lead to a lot of progress thanks to a lot of intelligent people looking at it with a real educational background. A "CS degree" only degraded the field to business monkey shit and video game wannabe nerd anti-intellectualism.

>>6068362
lol I just asked a question
all you had to do was answer it

>>6068356
guys like church, von neumann, kleene were all definitely far more interested in mathematics than computer science

>>6068362
Nice projection.

>>6068366
>taking a dump on what people like to do for a living for no apparent reason.

>>6068369
>were all definitely far more interested in mathematics than computer science
>all their meaningful work is 100% computer science

>>6068382
>all their meaningful work is 100% mathematical logic

ftfy

>>6068366
Yup.

>>6068389
also forgot to say that von neumann did a ton more stuff than mathematical logic too

>>6068269
>Generative stochastic networks applied to face identification by pose analysis.
so your a math major cs minor?

>>6068390
CS major math minor.

>>6068446
What higher math classes did you take? Don't even bother listing high school shit like calculus.

As a pure mathematician I think that compsci should get more love. It has applications in any given area of science.

>>6068269
sounds like some bullshit sponsored by darpa

>>6068463
We are not talking about the field of comp sci, we are talking about the undergrad students, which happen to be largely anti-math.

>>6067908
Hahaha. This thread is dead. This nigga thinks that CS majors don't learn to program. Enjoy the rest of high school buddy. If you put your mind to it you might even get into your local community college!

>>6068030
YAH BUT THEY ARENT REALLLLLLLLLL

>>6068253
That would be for a BA in CS. Not a BS. Much more math is required.

>>6068505
A shitty java intro doesn't make you a programmer. If you didn't already teach yourself programming on your own, you won't learn real programming in CS.

First, CS is a pretty respectable field. Who can deny how much advancement has occurred due to CS in the past century? Yes, there are some insufferable CS majors who probably only majored in CS because they wanted to program video games, but there are a lot of bright students who really excel and take away a lot from a good program.

Also, why all the knock on CS majors going into industry? There's a lot of tough problems out there in the "real world" for a lot of businesses - I don't see how working in industry seems so terrible to some people. There's people that go into industry with CS degrees, and there's people that remain in academia. What's the big deal? Ok, maybe you don't get the most amazing job out of college with a CS degree. Maybe you're just another junior Java developer. But that's not degrading... there are a lot of challenges with writing good software in industry.

>>6068458
Math courses I took as an undergrad as far as I recall:
Calculus 1-3, analysis 1 and 2, complex variables, numerical analysis, stochastic processes, probability, algebra 1, lin alg, discrete maths, prob & stats, statistical methods and concepts.

Relevant CS:
Optimization, operations research, AI, ML, theoretical CS (intro + real), bio-informatic, numerical algorithms, 2 internships. Rest were mandatory classes and not very relevant (programming and stuff).

>>6068472
>mathematician contradicts what I said? Fuck, I'm not a mathematician myself, so what do I do? I know! Move the goal posts and hope no one sees!

>>6068539
Thanks for confirming the stereotype that CS majors have bad reading comprehension. Now read the OP again.

>>6068537
>Thinking that CS majors take an intro class and are done.

Where do I sign up for this degree? Sounds fucking cash.

>>6068542
0/10
keep trying broski. If you can dream it, you can do it!

>>6068544
The mandatory programming classes in a normal CS curriculum consists of a shallo intro to java. May I remind you of what your fellow neckbears said? They said "CS is not programming".

>>6068537
Programming 1 and 2, algorithms, data structures, programming language concepts, databases, human-machine interfaces, 2 SE courses and informatics systems are all mandatory to CS majors. Checkmate.

>>6068542
It's funny because your post proves you have no reading comprehension whatsoever.

>>6068548
Oh, at your local community college? Yeah, they only require an intro class before transferring to a real university because most unis won't take those transferred credits. Keep studying, bucko, I'm sure you'll be able to transfer into Redneck State.

>>6068540
So you took additional math courses on your own? That's your personal choice but it does not represent a standard CS curriculum.

>>6068550
You are confirming my point. A lot of shallow intros but nothing going deeper.

>>6068546
And another stereotype confirmed: mental immaturity. Keep it going. Perhaps next you should post a picture of yourself to confirm you have a neckbeard.

>>6068552
Please ask your mom to read the OP post to you. You are making yourself look incredibly stupid by failing to understand what this thread is about.

>>6068553
I think you should cry more. It really furthers your argument.

>>6068554
I am studying at an elite university. Stay jelly.

>>6068558
Go back to >>>/v/. Go play some video games with the other children.

>>6068553
>So you took additional math courses on your own?
Yes and no. I started going into a CS degree where I intended to get $50k starting and leave it at that, and then I realized after the first internship that research was more my thing so I took the math courses as electives, granting me a math minor and CS major with a CS baccalaureate. Would have been a pretty useless pebble without those.
>That's your personal choice but it does not represent a standard CS curriculum.
That's like saying math is retarded because ~vortex math~.

>>6068553
>A lot of shallow intros but nothing going deeper.
You literally cannot go further without going grad-level studies in language theory. Nobody in the industry has more programming qualification than CS people even though CS is no more about programming than astrophysics is about telescopes.

>>6068563
>Would have been a pretty useless pebble without those.
So you agree that CS alone didn't give you any qualifications.

>That's like saying math is retarded because ~vortex math~.
No, it's more like saying sociology is the purest form of math because you know one sociology major who read a math book in his free time.

>>6068560
> Laughably bloated sense of superiority, comes to 4tran to try and make others feel bad for no other reason other than small dickedness and anger towards a frigid mom.

Super, super jelly, bro. I will keep making my post graduate bank. Keep fighting the good fight at your "elite" college, and telling everyone you are better than them!

>>6068570
>So you agree that CS alone didn't give you any qualifications.
EE alone doesn't give the qualifications to carry on in academia.
CE alone doesn't give the qualifications to carry on in academia.
Even physics alone doesn't give the qualifications to carry on in academia.

>>6068567
You are saying that CS is not about programming. In the same post you say that most CS majors are going for a code monkey job in the industry. That means you agree CS is a failed degree because it does not properly prepare its students for their jobs.

>>6068570
The degree is good enough for operations research, theoretical cs, cryptography, and language theory, and almost good enough for quantum computing.

I just want to do soft computing (._. )

>>6068576
Astrophysics is about telescopes.
Math is about fortran.
Physics is about particle accelerators.
Chemistry is about Bunsen burners.

>>6068574
Thanks to people like you I don't need to demonstrate any superiority. You are already doing a good enough job in showing everyone your own inferiority. I don't know what masochistic pleasure you derive from entering a thread for the sole purpose of screaming "I am retarded!!!! Look at me!!! I behave like a toddler!!!" Do you crave other people's contempt? I could care less about your pathetic life, but I will give you the following advice nonetheless: Go see a psychiatrist, for you are seriously mentally ill.

>>6068576
Math is a failed degree because it does not prepare its students for their jobs!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhBymLCRIU8

>>6068583
See, I knew you could cry more. =) Sweet, sweet, tears. They taste so good. Oh, and don't worry about getting a job after college. I'm sure there will be plenty of people paying good money for mediocre math majors. It wont be hard at all to get a grant from a large tech corp built from and based on products developed in the CS world.

>>6068315
Really dude, don't listen to these niggers. If you want to do something, do it. It means you enjoy it and can probably do it well. ITT: butthurt math majors/grads who have a degrees equivalent to psychology: Lots of theory, and bickering. Unlike psych, they don't actually ever make money.

>>6068592
>impying I'm a math major

Tell me more about your insecurities. The psychodynamics of your illness are fascinating.

>>6068613
duly noted :D

>>6068619
>Implying that I care what major you are.
>Implying that I would care if you ate shit and died.

Enjoy your life. It must be really fulfilling if you're on the tran tying to hurt people's feelings. There is a whole world outside of the tiny slice of academia you think you need rule over. Good luck out there, broski. You need it.

>>6068652
Where did I hurt your feelings? What part of my post was the most hurtful to you? You need to tell me, so I know how to respect your feelings in the future.

ITT: Math majors who don't do anything useful try to fuel their sense of self worth.

How nice of an idea is it to major in EE.

How're the job prospects?

>>6068020
As a professor who just got his Ph.D a couple of years ago, I've never come across a situation in which Fortran would have been helpful.

>>6068935
as the Queen of England, I say fuck you.

>>6068942
As the Prime Minister of Canada, I say sorry.

>>6068959
As obongo, I say jihad!

>>6066587
/sci/ posters

>>6068968
bukra bukra jihad boko HARAM

>>6067881

I got a job straight out college with a 3.1 GPA and a competent but not exemplary knowledge of programming

My friends did as well

please shut up with your baseless speculation

>>6068099

>quantifier

>>6068026
you're an idiot. do you know anything about real math?

>>6069033
Watch out, you almost fell right there! Wouldn't want that, would we, mister master of calculus (lol)?

>>6068277
>>6068281
no really, your post was completely uninformed. In just about every school Analysis I/II and any algebra after linear are 2nd or 3rd year courses. Unless you are a math major, it is almost inconceivable to do linear algebra and analysis and abstract algebra at the same time.

If that is really gonna be your criterion: most physics majors don't take almost any advance math. At MIT, physics majors only have to take 1 course beyond Calc/ODE. This MIGHT include linear algebra, or analysis.

Theory of probability with Srinivasa Varadhan is an intro, but not a babby one. Are you trying to suggest that all CS need to do borel algebras to be legit?

Also, functional programming is the main kind of programming used in my field, and in many NLP labs.

Pretty much your claim is kind of specious as it would necessitate more math than pretty much any undergraduate science major period.

>>6069055
>no really, your post was completely uninformed
Do you even know what the word "uninformed" means? You might want to look that up in a dictionary. Or did you redefine it in your private autism language to have a different meaning?

>In just about every school Analysis I/II and any algebra after linear are 2nd or 3rd year courses
This is what americans actually believe. I feel honestly sorry for you fucked up education system where high school shit like calculus takes up years of university courses.

>Unless you are a math major, it is almost inconceivable to do linear algebra and analysis and abstract algebra at the same time.
That's why CS students get the dumbed down version of abstract and linear algebra as "discrete math". A cute little course where they are stumped by having to use mathy notation for sets.

>Are you trying to suggest that all CS need to do borel algebras to be legit?
Your probability course does not even define measure spaces? My lels are in orbit. What do you even do in that course?

I'm currently Taking Math and CS. So many things i hate about CS:
>The Fedora wearing assholes
>The Macbook hipster assholes
>The amount of faggit eastern europeans who think they're the next Alan Turing
>etc
CS is a fun subject to learn actualy. Its just that 90% of people who take it are severley deluded individuals who all think they'll work for google or apple, making big bucks. Im glad im droping it next year to concentrate solely on Math.

also;
earlier posts talking about how pretentious and 'almightier than thou' SE students are? Completely agree. Those guys are the fucking worst. Wearing fedoras, leather trenchcoats and doc martins like theyre Neo from the matrix.

>Take computer science at U of T
>1 half year course in programming in first year
>The rest for the next 4 years is theory and maths with one or two courses that require building software and focus on your ability to work with other people and teach industry convention
>Programming and language proficiency is expected to be learned in spare time
>Have to be able to read logical expressions and symbols like its your first language
>Every maths major that goes in because they want to make money with their degree gets railroaded by real CS concepts because all they're used to is memorizing integral formulas.

Unless you go to a shitty college, I don't understand how you think CS is for retards. Even the minor program requires that you go through at least 2 full year equivalent theory courses.

>>6067879
>A+ Cert class
>computer at each desk
>LoL streams, LoL streams everywhere

>>6069076

>math majors
>used to is memorizing integral formulas.

Say whatever you want about cs, but you haven't met a math major. Or do you think engineers are math majors?

>>6069076
>>Have to be able to read logical expressions and symbols like its your first language

>>6069076
Oh no, how dare they make you learn mathy notation. That's unfair! Where do you ever need all that hard math when all you want to do is programming video games?

>>6069076
>having to memorise integral formulas
my sides

>>6069085
All I'm saying is that its not

>hurr, make a calculator and submit it to your TA

>>6069087
You'll fit right in. As someone who is struggling hard with elementary symbolic logic you're the perfect stereotypical CS major. Tell us more about how you don't understand all these weird implication symbols and existence quantifiers.

In case you're trolling, 10/10. Perfect and 100% convincing impersonation. Exactly like I remember the typical CS anti-intellectualism.

>>6069076
>>Have to be able to read logical expressions and symbols like its your first language

implying that is an accomplishment of any kind

>>Every maths major that goes in because they want to make money with their degree gets railroaded by real CS concepts because all they're used to is memorizing integral formulas.
>all they're used to is memorizing integral formulas.

...

>>6069064
Wtf? I just chose the word to mirror what the other person was saying to make it clear it was a continuation of their criticism. How are you getting on about someone going ad hominem when you turn around and call me autistic for literally no fucking reason?

What semester these courses are is not just what I believe, fucking google it, it's what it is at most American universities, even the top STEM ones. Calculus takes up about a semester to a year, especially if you haven't taken it, although you can test out, obviously longer if you consider PDE+ as calculus. This is seriously the most butthurt post I have seen in a long time. Unless the kinds of things you are coding for will involve specific kinds of tools from probability, why would you waste your time doing it? If what you are doing requires large amounts of algebra, you will probably focus on that. Of course if you are going to be using a lot of probability you will go on to study measure spaces; don't be an idiot.

By uninformed, I mean you obviously have no sense of how courses are laid out in most schools, or what math criteria are standard in non-math science majors, computer science or otherwise.

Do people in your department know you're a dick, or is this just expected if you do CS?

>>6069091
>>6069092
Where did I say that it was hard or an accomplishment?

All I said is that it's required at the same level that its required in maths.

>>6069097
You mention it hence you think it requires some effort.

You're a pathetic failure in life

>>6069097
>>The rest for the next 4 years is theory and maths with one or two courses that require building software and focus on your ability to work with other people and teach industry convention

implying you do actual math

>Have to be able to read logical expressions and symbols like its your first language

...

>>6069102
>>6069101
I mentioned it because people think we don't.

>this one booty-blasted cs major itt

>>6069103
>I mentioned it because people think we don't.

Don't what? People think you're retards for claiming knowing notation and DeMorgan's law is the same a knowing mathematical logic

>>6069103
Measuring how fast a sorting algorithm sorts an array does not count as math

>>6069112
>DeMorgans

top lel

We learn that in grade 11

>>6069115
>Its not maths unless it fits what I studied

HAHAHA, when did /sci/ get so fucking autistic?

>>6069116
congratulations?

>>6069116
That means in grade 11 you have reached almost the same level of math education a BSc in CS will have.

>>6069117
>My degree is useful and worthwhile please believe me!

>>6069118
>>6069120
>A BSc learns demorgans and that's basically it

Formal logic is contained almost entirely withing the CS stream here. Do you actually think that CS at your shitty state university or community college resembles CS at the school where P=NP? was posed?

>>6069125
>Useful and worthwhile

I don't even need to argue that point a priori, just look at the employment statistics.

>>6069127
>Formal logic is contained almost entirely withing the CS stream here.

No, it isn't. "Babby's first quantifiers" does not qualify as mathematical logic. You are lacking the math background to understand anything that goes beyond simplistic symbolic representations of intuitively obvious logical connections like they are asked in any IQ test.

>>6069127
>"CS only sucks at shitty school; at unname good school it's god tier" straw-man

0/10

>>6069127
>state university
>inherently shitty

>>6069137
>>6069136
You can look up the school and see for yourself, I mentioned it.

The professor emeritus is the most well respected person in CS today

>>6069140
The man/men who posited N vs NP are primarily Mathematicians. Dont kid yourself on and think that they have any respect for CS.

>>6069140
Posing the question P≟NP or NP≟AP or AP≟BQP isn't impressive in the slightest and I have looked up most of the CS programs in the top ranking schools and they're all equally shitty [or merged in with EE or CE].

>>6069143
>>6069144
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Cook
>Fields: Computer Science

>"B-B-B-BUT MUH AUTISM. I CANNOT BE WRONG EVER"

>>6069150
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Cook
>a positive answer to the "P vs. NP" question would likely have profound practical and philosophical consequences

What a pile of crap

>>6069150

As someone who finds this whole argument stupid, I do have to say I laughed when I read the biography paragraph.

>He joined the University of California, Berkeley, mathematics department in 1966 as an Assistant Professor, and stayed there until 1970 when he was denied reappointment.

>>6069150

He's also a mathematician, I don't know what you're supposed to be showing us with this. Or do you think he would have been able to do what he did with only the cs portion?

Also, you're still the on who thinks math majors are used to memorizing integral formulas, so you're still a faggot.

>>6069152
You have to be clinically retarded not to understand the scope of the implications of P=NP.

Sorry, I can't hear you over all this money.

>>6069136
>type theory
>lambda calculus
>lel

>>6069202
You have to not know the slightest bit about complexity theory to think P=NP would change much of anything.

>>6069214
I have no word to describe how wrong this statement is. 100/10, master troll material.

>>6069226
A n^4 algorithm for SAT would be FAR too slow for most practical problems.

>>6069204
Monetary systems are based on unsound axioms that too easily lead to contradictions.

What does /sci/ think of computer engineers?

http://www.engf.canterbury.ac.nz/behons/comp.shtml

Computer Science outcomes: 150k starting at Google, Facebook, Amazon. Designing breakthrough algorithms like deep belief networks, studying rich subject areas like probabilistic programming and graphical models, advancing the frontiers of science.

Mathematics outcomes: 20k a year, proving obscure property of mathematical by hand, job is automated when machine learning algorithm is created for learning proofs from data. Mathematician will simply be a (semi)skilled technician working under a computer scientist who understands the inner workings of the automated theorem proving system.

>>6069407
We didn't fire astrophysicists or lower their pay once we automated orbital mechanics and solved problems infeasible for a human to solve.

There is a certain element of creativity that an effective scientist has to have that computers probably won't posses until we figure out AI.

>>6069407
why are cs majors this insecure

(and deluded while we're at it)

>>6069413

I thought we did lower the astrophysics salaries

>>6069407

3/10, at least type something you yourself belief. I did laugh at what you wrote though, hence the 3.

Oh yeah, another great thread.

>>6066906
>which is interesting as any other subject in math.
This is the saddest, boringest thing I have ever read.

holy shit I don't care
Do you know what it's like to be a chemical engineering major and hear about why *insert major that isn't the person talking*'s sucks all day?
Fuck
Every day with this shit
We get it, you're a fucking GENIUS and everyone who isn't you is retarded for taking classes that you aren't taking.
Fucking clearly everyone else dun fucked up when they were singing up

Man I should've majored in a non-science. At least then I wouldn't have to take classes with egotistical pieces of shit who think they're academia's gift to man.
Why is STEM a dick measuring contest
WOW

I went into CS for the sole purpose of avoiding a required speech class from the original field I intended to major in. I enjoyed it, but the extense of the coding itself is what set me to fail. There wasn't any autistic people in my programming course in which you guys describe, some made it through, some were just unfortunate.

I'm not interested in computer science, but I am interested in network administration.

Problem is, I don't know how to get into the industry... There are some accreditation programs around here that'll give certifications from Microsoft, CompTIA, Cisco, etc.

But like fuck is a $16,000 course for 9 months going to land a decent paying job. I can hardly believe that when I have to spend 2-4 years for anything else. "Oh yeah, we'll hire a dude with these certificate and zero prior work experience in the IT industry" roll eyes.

I don't understand how people actually get into these fields and do this shit without half a decade in college, and nepotism for their first job.

>>6069470

>Implying french and english literature majors aren't hating on each other.

>>6069440
>going on /sci/ for quality threads
I shiggity you don't diggity

>>6067953
I'm applying for CS next term and I want to avoid the plague gamer CS schools and try to get into one that actually provides good knowledge for the one interested in learning.

What courses should I focus on as a CS major. What should I skip etc

>not studying the humanities
>not studying the arts

>studying a technical field of computer manipulation and networking
>most research universities have very strong emphasis on mathematics in computer science departments
>very difficult field to achieve in without immense study, experience and understanding

>still rip on them for not being 1337 enough

You people are overwhelmingly intolerable.

Also, before you ask, Doctor of Philosophy in Mechanical Engineering and code is a major part of my career to complete projects.

>>6069500
You know, I kind of want to do mechanical engineering.

But I really don't think I've got what it takes for that shit. I'm lucky to get a 60% in calculus, and fuck 60hr/week dedicated just to school. How the fuck are you supposed to have a life outside of that?

Why the hell don't we have apprenticeship programs anymore?

>>6069500
Why are rockets so phallic?
They should be more like flying vaginas

>>6069470
You must be a civil engineer or a fucking math major or something retarded.

You're prolly retarded.

>>6069510
>How the fuck are you supposed to have a life outside of that?

You don't.

>Why the hell don't we have apprenticeship programs anymore?

You can't be an apprentice and learn this level of education. But, once you do achieve a degree, there are machining and journeyman engineer positions in aerospace shops throughout the United States. You apply everything you know to the process and owners are usually very happy to have you there.

I started off NC programming using Mastercam and would implement the process using various machinery.

Watching your part come to life with incredible precision is akin watching your baby be born.

Now I'm on to 'larger' things.

>Why are rockets so phallic?

Hypersonic flow.

bumping most autistic thread on /sc/ right now

>>6069498
>try to get into one that actually provides good knowledge for the one interested in learning

Then get into the school's EE, CompE, and/or Math departments. There's little actual learning done in slow moving and watered down undergrad CS.

>What courses should I focus on as a CS major. What should I skip etc

Skip <span class="math">all[/spoiler] 1st and 2nd year courses and anything in Java; the EE/CompE department should have better versions of them that you'll benefit far more from. Focus on Compilers, Operating Systems, Complexity and Computability Theory, <span class="math"> \bf{ \underline{ Graduate } } [/spoiler] Algorithms and Data Structures Analysis, Graduate (or the Math department's) Numerical Analysis, and any other <span class="math">Graduate[/spoiler] courses that catches your interest.

>>6069470
>holy shit I don't care
You cared enough to write a very emotional reply.

>Do you know what it's like to be a chemical engineering major and hear about why *insert major that isn't the person talking*'s sucks all day?
Is this some subtle qualia troll?

>We get it, you're a fucking GENIUS and everyone who isn't you is retarded
This is true.

>for taking classes that you aren't taking.
I took almost all the classes and I can confirm they are trivial babby level.

>Fucking clearly everyone else dun fucked up when they were singing up
No, they were fucked long before they signed up. They were fucked when they were born with lower intelligence and less talent.

>Man I should've majored in a non-science.
Do it. We won't miss you.

>Why is STEM a dick measuring contest
All of academia is very competitive. Welcome to the real world. Science is not "le funny stoner journey with Neil Tyson", science is a hard and very seriuos business. Sorry for shattering your illusions, kid.

>>6066587

I wonder if the denizens of this thread are aware of them being the exact same stereotyping dickwads they accuse CS students of being.


Anyways there are dicks everywhere OP. There are psychology and sociology students who think they are gods gift to the earth.

>>6069066
>The amount of faggit eastern europeans who think they're the next Alan Turing
Don't shit on my dream, Anon. I wasn't even born in eastern Europe.

>>6069076
>Every maths major that goes in because they want to make money with their degree gets railroaded by real CS concepts because all they're used to is memorizing integral formulas.
lol

>>6069079
Professor is late. Everyone starts playing LoL.

>>6069115
But it is.

>>6069152
>P = NP
>cryptography falls apart

>>6069413
Don't worry. Some philosophers don't event think true AI is possible.

>>6070087
The concept of "true AI" is sci fi nonsense and completely irrelevant to academic research. AI research doesn't care about your childish misconceptions. Please grow up, take an actual course or read a book on the topic and stop talking out of your ass on the sole basis of having watched a retarded hollywood movie with talking robots.

>>6069513
The men kept stealing the designs.

Why does everyone think computer engineering is better? They take the easy CS courses, the easy EE courses, and then take a few "lets play with circuits!" classes. At my uni it was EE > CS > CE > "infurmation systems"

>>6070095
Russel and Norvig's book mentioned that a branch of philosophy is concerned with proving that AI is impossible, but we do have AI, so what else could the philosophers be talking about?

>The concept of "true AI" is sci fi nonsense and completely irrelevant to academic research.
hur dur, what are expert systems

>AI research doesn't care about your childish misconceptions.
But you care, so you're not part of AI research. So I don't care.

>Please grow up, take an actual course or read a book on the topic and stop talking out of your ass on the sole basis of having watched a retarded hollywood movie with talking robots.
Projecting pretty hard.

>>6070155
>Russel and Norvig's book mentioned that a branch of philosophy is concerned with proving that AI is impossible, but we do have AI, so what else could the philosophers be talking about?
Just like you, philosophers don't understand what AI means. AI does NOT mean "muh conscious robots" or any similarly untestable and unscientific childrens' fantasies. Russel and Norvig also emphasized that metaphysical nonsense arguments are of no importance to actual research.

>hur dur, what are expert systems
Another concept you don't understand.

>But you care, so you're not part of AI research. So I don't care.
Where did I care? I merely told you that you're retarded. You wish I'd care, don't you?

>Projecting pretty hard.
lol nope. Unlike you I'm educated.

>>6070194
>Just like you, philosophers don't understand what AI means.
I do understand what AI means. I'm just not so autistic that when someone uses a term that it isn't big in academia, but still communicates a meaning, I don't have a hissy fit online.

>AI does NOT mean "muh conscious robots" or any similarly untestable and unscientific childrens' fantasies.
A good thing we weren't talking about conscious robots.

>Russel and Norvig also emphasized that metaphysical nonsense arguments are of no importance to actual research.
No shit, that's why my original statement was a joke meant to give the person I was replying to a sense of false hope.

>Where did I care? I merely told you that you're retarded. You wish I'd care, don't you?
Taking the effort to respond means you care enough to respond.

>lol nope. Unlike you I'm educated.
I'm sure your Java classes were very profound. Did you have to write your own linked list?

they are poo heads.

>>6070252
>I do understand what AI means.
Tell me what you think it means.

>I'm just not so autistic that when someone uses a term that it isn't big in academia, but still communicates a meaning, I don't have a hissy fit online.
Precision and accuracy are of utmost importance in science. This is not unnecessary pedantry. On a science and math board we use scientific terminology. Don't like it? Then stay on facebook. If everyone started talking out of their uneducated ass and inventing their own terminology, we'd have a big communicational problem.

>No shit, that's why my original statement was a joke
It was not funny and it was inappropriate. You were actively spreading anti-intellectualism and you encouraged an anti-scientific attitude. Do you also happen to sabotage the research projects at your university?

>I'm sure your Java classes were very profound.
They were very profound.

>Did you have to write your own linked list?
I did.

>>6070281
>Tell me what you think it means.
I would, but I can't decide which I'd rather hear. You yelling at me for "obviously looking it up" or you yelling at me for "dodging the question like an unscientific pleb".
>Precision and accuracy are of utmost importance in science. This is not unnecessary pedantry. On a science and math board we use scientific terminology. Don't like it? Then stay on facebook. If everyone started talking out of their uneducated ass and inventing their own terminology, we'd have a big communicational problem.
You understood what I meant. You're just sperging like an autist.
>It was not funny
Opinions. I showed it to my cat and he smiled.
>and it was inappropriate.
yYou're a nigger cunt.
>You were actively spreading anti-intellectualism and you encouraged an anti-scientific attitude.
Deary me, how many decades do you think I sent scientific progress back?
>Do you also happen to sabotage the research projects at your university?
Yes, I change the numbers on the footnotes and mix around the citations. Nobody has noticed yet. Probably because they don't care as long as the data supports their findings or lets them get funding.
>They were very profound.
Do tell.
>I did.
Cool.

You undergrads are adorable.

>tfw getting a joint honours math and cs degree from a reputable school
>laughing at mad csfags who cant do math
>laughing at mad mathfags who wont have a job after university

Although I have to agree most cs majors fucking stupid when it comes to math. I recall in second year it took the prof an entire lecture to explain mathematical induction. don't even get me started on recursion

>>6070334
Did you learn the secret to cdr's recursive farts?

>>6070338
no

Computer Science degrees aren't what they used to be.

>>6070082
>cryptography falls apart

see >>6069235

Lets consider that we have a n^4 SAT solver:

Example (public key): Assuming a simple guess and check factoring algorithm that takes ~ NTIME(n^2)
To factor a 4096bit RSA key, it takes ((n^2)^3*2*log(n))^4 = (((2^12)^2)^3*24)^4 ~= 2^306 which is beyond hopeless

Example (private key): Assuming a NTIME(n) decryption algorithm
The time complexity is (n^3*log(n))^4 so to break Threefish's 1024bit key, it takes 10^4*2^120 ~= 2^133 which is beyond hopeless

The modern encryption algorithm are safe. Notice how CS majors don't even know the most basic concepts of their OWN field and just parrot things they've heard with no understanding of them.

>>6070148
In America, accredited CE is EE with different 4th year electives. In the 3rd world, CE is prone to be swapped with CS or SE.

>>6070345
>Computer Science degrees aren't what they used to be.

CS degrees have been shit for over 25 years