/sci/ - Science & Math

yeah some episodes of cosmos by carl sagan should be required high school videos. just to get the spirit sparked and the passion going and also explain a bunch of general science.

problem solved

and then they bust out some grass and hotbox the classroom. just to seal in that science interest. just like whoa dude science.

Yeah, that's really one of the main challenges of scientific outreach. The heart of scientific inquiry is not believing something until you've tested it to find out, but it's inefficient to try and get every single scientist, let alone every person, to witness and fully understand all scientific results.

Peer review is meant to address this. Scientists assume that other scientists are acting in good conscience and not totally falsifying data, and incorrect conclusions are continually being refined or corrected. This is a good check; one can assume that the results in a published scientific work are at least somewhat well-tested. Results that have been extensively cited are probably true, or at least very useful.

As a physicist, when I explain quantum mechanics I understand that there is a degree of trust involved. What I always try to underscore is that all of it is strongly rooted in phenomenology. The reason we had to come up with a quantum explanation is because we see all kinds of things in the world that don't make sense in classical physics, and these differences are the important things to discuss when explaining to laymen.

>>5962958
Are there videos out there between 'scientists' waving their hands around talking about quantum phyiscs like its magic and university lectures that require you to know a large deal of the theory behind it?

>>5962997
The point of university lectures is not that you know the theory, it's so you learn the theory. If you are really really interested in it, why not learn the theory? All you need to get a basic understanding is elementary calculus.

Really, the best middle ground is to have a conversation with a physicist or someone who really understands it, where you can ask questions and clarify misunderstandings.

>>5962967
> Peer review is meant to address this. Scientists assume that other scientists are acting in good conscience and not totally falsifying data, and incorrect conclusions are continually being refined or corrected.
Let's say you run into a church, if you can endure the atmosphere, they are all happy, enlightened or some sort. They review stories from each other as if god is the savior. Can you trust them? No.
> This is a good check
For physicists? Sorry i am not a physicist. Teenagers are definitely not physicists. Random people on the street are likely not physicists. See the problem? You live in a world of physicists for too long.
> I understand that there is a degree of trust involved.
The drawback is that you leave the young vulnerable to those metaphysical nonsense.
I don't think you understand how much scientists left off before you read this post.

>>5963010
I don't think you understand how much science scientists left off before you read this post.

>>5963010
The one thing that laypeople CAN easily understand about science is the scientific method. This is something that clearly differentiates science from faith, and is an extremely simple concept: before believing that something is true, try it and see.

This is a very powerful idea, and is the reason science has flourished. It is appealing and convincing to just about anybody, not just scientists. If you are confident that someone has applied the scientific method correctly, you can be confident that their conclusions are valid, barring some serious systematic error. And so I think that a layperson trusting science over faith is not irrational, because by understanding the simple system that underlies each epistemology, which anybody can, you can decide which results are more convincing.

>>5962958
>the science we teach today are just as funny as bible.

This, although I am theist I agree. Even though science and religion should be separate when it comes to school, just like English and Math class, they still work in cohorts.

Don't be ridiculous. Sure, learning the concepts of QM can be hard; no one's going to learn it over night. But if there wasn't any shred of truth in QM, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Lasers, microwaves, the shape of the periodic table, transistors, the helix structure of DNA, communications, chemical kinetics, and many fairly esoteric things rely on quantum mechanics giving a fairly reliable description of reality in order to exist. Whether QM is 100% true or not is something scientists are working on, but it's a hell of a lot better model than we had before.

If someone seriously says you need faith to believe in QM, shine a laser in their fucking eyes and ask them about their "blind faith".

Explaining scientific concepts to laypersons is all about finding the right balance between hard science and analogy.

The majority of people don't understand linear algebra/differential equations/vector calculus and don't have any need to, so you need to find ways of explaining things without resorting to that kind of level of mathematics. That still leaves a host of other things people can comprehend though.

It's been my experience that people can surprise you, and that many laypersons can understand a lot more about science than a lot of scientists are willing to give them credit for.

>>5963815
>It's been my experience that people can surprise you, and that many laypersons can understand a lot more about science than a lot of scientists are willing to give them credit for.

This, most scientists who think that way are pretentious and are looking for a way to separate themselves in hopes of being better than their fellow man

>>5962958

>implying anybody on /sci/ understands quantum mechanics

>>5964840
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics.
Richard Feynman

>>5964833
I agree. It's just that many people are really opposed to all things nerdy.
They'd probably be smart enough to understand it, they're just conditioned that numbers are scary.

>>5963815
>many laypersons can understand a lot more about science than a lot of scientists are willing to give them credit for.

mfw this is what pop sci fags actually want to believe

>>5964844
>1965

>>5963815
While this is true, I can understand how it's very hard for scientists to explain things well to laypersons.
I always find the biggest hurdle when trying to explain something to somebody with sufficiently less knowledge in something is that I am so used to certain things being intuitive that it's hard to tell when I'm going to lose them. This is often the reason that some of the best scientists are not always the best teachers.

>>5965413
>implying anything changed in these 48 years

>>5963779
You are a theist and you agree that shit like bible is funny. I guess you think that kids are funny too! Education is funny, well, not so funny i guess.
>Even though science and religion should be separate when it comes to school
If we have the luxury to pull in shit like religion (like, Jesus is your god..) when it comes to school, then i am sure that we can "teach" all sort of things like pop music, porn, cartoons or whatever you like.
>>5965404
this.
>>5963032
Meh. I think my previous post(>>5963010) explained pretty well, if you can explain science well to average people, then they would have agreed that quantum mechanics is not (yet) a science on their eyes.
>>5965428
>While this is true, I can understand how it's very hard for scientists to explain things well to laypersons.
then don't. You could just say, "it is not a science. Challenge me when you are mighty enough to experiment in laboratory."
If you are physicist, then consider inventing/exploring accessible phenomenon similar to double-slit experiment.

>>5962958
michio kaku is such a bitch, I hate him.

>>5965475

>>5962963
TOPEST KEK

>>5963010
The difference between science and church is that there are tested things based on them. People test and retest to make sure something is true. We even do a little testing ourselves in highschool.

>>5962958
Thread hijack - what's with the Kaku hate? Hyperspace or whatever wasn't THAT bad.

I think the main problem here (aside from people being idiotic, that is) is the quality of a school education. I am positive in America and Europe there are quite a few good books on every subjects, it's just a matter of teaching. And here's a problem. Teachers are mostly dilettantes, who know nothing about science and have stereotypical thinking. How good can they teach? Can they teach to think instead of using learned alrorithms? No.
And I'm talking about school material specifically because, really, that's all you need in order to understand basics of modern science and for use in life in general.

2.3 million electron volts is very little energy.

>>5967538
Ever since I saw him talk about real life aliens and star wars on discovery I lost faith in him. And something about him is intrinsically annoying.

>>5967450
>>5962967
You people are missing OP's point.
He's not making a point about the problem of knowledge in general, but about scientific vulgarization.

I agree with him. That's why when it comes to children, children's books full of easy experiments to make about the mundane world around them are a hundred times more valuable than books about SPEEEEEYYYSS.

Of course when it comes to adults, it's more of a problem since they are probably not interested in doing children's experiments anymore. I guess you can focus on the technological applications.

>>5962967
Can't be assed to read the whole thread but this sums it up pretty well.

>>5962963
The shit heads in our high schools have their heads too far up there own ass holes to appreciate something like it.

>>5965391
this

>>5965428
they lack emotional intelligence, really, they do

>>5965459
You're an idiot and here's why

>You are a theist and you agree that shit like bible is funny.

Every religion is a little bit funny because it has been tainted by man and science just as well with the spontaneous generation proposed by aristotle or plato, one of the two. But there is a little bit truth regardless.

Also, religion can be taught in social studies, ya know, the subject you probably failed seeing as your social skills are horribly lacking when it comes to communicating.

Pop music is taught in music class as a style
Cartoons in art class.

The list goes on.

Those are the reasons that you are an idiot and back to >>>/b/ with you.