/sci/ - Science & Math

>natural consequence of logical thinking is nihilism

Go on.

>>5904624

well yeah, the fuck did you expect? a cosmic decleration of human rights coupled with social security for retirement?

>>5904627
What? Do you want me to elaborate?

>>5904624
I disagree. Existentialism is a likely and probable candidate.

Read Sarte's works.

>>5904624
that's about all there is to it really. I try not to dwell upon it because I get very depressed.

>>5904635

>I disagree. Existentialism is a likely and probable candidate.

Why though? I'm aware you suggested I read Sartre, but debates have to be more than referring to people who agree with us...

>>5904630
>>5904634
I had this attitude. When I was 16.

>>5904630
Nihilism is different because it's all true

>>5904637
Also
>implying science/math and philosophy are mutually exclusive

I am a math major yet I find philosophy interesting. Now what?

>>5904641
>I had this attitude. When I was 16.
You will have it again, once you got some science education.

>>5904643
>I find philosophy interesting. Now what?
Nobody cares. Go be anti-intellectual somewhere else. /sci/ is for science and math.

>>5904648
>ignoring the fact that a huge amount of great scientists/mathematicians were highly engaged in philosophy

Honestly, you're a joke who has never achieved anything and tries to feel superior by "scoffing" at those "inferior non scientific" disciplines. I bet you wear a fedora too because you are enlightened by your own scientific brilliance.

>>5904654
What part of "/sci/ - science & math" don't you understand? Your anti-intellectual teenager pseudo-philosophy does not belong here. Grow up and stop shitposting.

>>5904648
>implying you have a science education

>>5904641
I'm aware of what debates have to be about. That being said, you should read about other philosophical disciplines before you make blanket statements regarding one.

Anyway, existentialism is -- in my opinion -- the natural extension after logical thinking. It jumps forward from this:
>a form which renders us skeptical and lacking any form of meaning whatsoever in life.

The existentialist realizes this at the beginning, but what must he make of it? Does he simply descend into madness, plagued by his lack of Being? Should this lack of meaning coerce him to consider ending it all, i.e., suicide? What does Man do when he's faced with the conclusion that his life -- and all life, really -- is meaningless?

He provides meaning. He provides meaning through his actions, thoughts and processes. He makes his Being worthwhile, he means it worth something -- something that he defines himself. In many ways, he becomes a God of his own, for he makes the choice. Choice is of fundamental importance in existentialism, because it is the precursor to action.

What's intriguing about existentialism is that the atheist, as well as the most avowed Christian, can recognize it as a legitimate philosophy and absorb it.

>>5904663
>projecting

>>5904662
>>5904648
>>5904640
>>5904637
>>5904634
>>5904630

It's true that this board is for science and mathematics, but mathematics was apart of the ''natural philosophy'' curriculum before the 20th century. It was expected that one learn the basic tenets of philosophy, as well as mathematics, if they engaged in erudite activities. Clearly, if you were aware of this, you wouldn't throw philosophy under the bus.

The best of physicists and mathematicians normally read books on philosophy, discussed it independently with current philosophers/physicists/mathematicians, etc. Dirac is not the norm; he was the abnormal one, but accepted nonetheless.

>>5904671
Tell us of your scientific education then genius.

>>5904675
Scientists also need to take a shit sometimes. Does that mean we should discuss defecation on /sci/? You are retarded. What scienists do outside of their research is irrelevant to this board. Keep your edgy teenager circlejerk on /r9k/ or whatever containment board you came from.

>>5904679
My science education is better than yours.

>>5904680
>got one thread deleted
>gotta shit up more

>>5904683
>[citation needed]

Tell us then. What did you study and where.

>>5904684
The OP was shitposting by making an off-topic thread.

>>5904689
I'm a polymath.

>>5904692
>I'm a polymath.

So let me guess, you didn't graduate university and have achieved nothing other than act elitist on 4chan.

>>5904698
>projecting again

>>5904703
>claims to have a superior science education/be a polymath
>unwilling to elaborate
>surprised when people make assumptions

Anti intellectual leave now

>>5904703
>So let me guess,
>guessing is somehow projecting

>>5904675
>Dirac is not the norm

Argumentum ad populum

>>5904624

Logically, there isn't anything stopping me from making up my own meaning in life because it's my life and my thoughts and I don't give a fuck.

Wrong board, r9k is over thattaway <----

>>5904630
>>5904634

Philosophy is not something that can be taught in and of itself. It's mental masturbation that requires the underpinning experience of things that aren't philosophy.

>>5904751
>Reality

>>5904630
you can not know that you can not know nothing
a philosopher would see the stupidity on this phrase

>Nietzsche's relation to the problem of nihilism is a complex one. He approaches the problem of nihilism as deeply personal, stating that this predicament of the modern world is a problem that has "become conscious" in him.[34] Furthermore, he emphasises both the danger of nihilism and the possibilities it offers, as seen in his statement that "I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength!"[35] According to Nietzsche, it is only when nihilism is overcome that a culture can have a true foundation upon which to thrive. He wished to hasten its coming only so that he could also hasten its ultimate departure.[23]

>>5904769
Mathematics is not something that can be taught in and of itself. It's mental masturbation that requires the underpinning experience of things that aren't mathematics.

>>5904776

you cannot know that you cannot know that you cannot know nothing

>maths is all I need to build my character, 2000 years of philosophical investigations are completely useless
Jesus, I wonder why people outside of your echo chamber dont find you interesting
>2013
>not understanding what philosophy is about
>Philosophy, as I have so far understood and lived it, means living voluntarily among ice and high mountains—seeking out everything strange and questionable in existence, everything so far placed under a ban by morality. The ice is near, the solitude tremendous—but how calmly all things lie in the light! How freely one breathes! How much one feels beneath oneself!
>daily reminder that without a basic formation in philosophy scientists are at the level of a plumber in terms of intellectualism

Philosophy a shit. Despite the absolutes and limitations imposed on me by my fellow man, the world, and space itself, I can still see a bright tomorrow. Nihilists are weak.

>>5904772
you trust that shit?

>>5904863
>scientist
>why is this the way it is
>how can I make this happen
>what happens when I do this

>philosopher
>why am I alive
>why do people do mean things
>allow me to justify my circlejerking

>/sci/ - science and math

Philosophy belongs on >>>/lit/ >>>/x/ >>>/r9k/ >>>/pol/ >>>/b/ >>>/sp/ >>>/mlp/

>>5904874

>autism
>idolize science
Whereas the man of action binds his life to reason and its concepts so that he will not be swept away and lost, the scientific investigator builds his hut right next to the tower of science so that he will be able to work on it and to find shelter for himself beneath those bulwarks which presently exist.

>>5904889
philosophy is an application of logic, logic is math

therefore philosophy belongs on /sci/

>>5904901
Philosophy anti-intellectually denies logic. Belief in nihilism, qualia, consciousness, free will etc is an insult to logic.

>>5904890
>prefering to get shit done rather than sit around and think about getting shit done
>autism

>>5904905

>Philosophy anti-intellectually denies logic

So we're ignoring how all concepts of logic came from philosophy?

Alright then...

>>5904912
Unless you spend all your waking hours "getting shit done" with science and not spending any time on leisure or enjoyment, you're a hypocrite.

>>5904913
Logic and the scientific method made philosophy obsolete. You're not deep for questioning reality, you're just childish.

>>5904914

Nobody can be perfect therefore nobody should try.

>>5904905
>not believing in consciousness when it's the only thing we know for a fact exists
ok

>>5904915
Again, all ideas of logic came from philosophy.

>>5904914
Are you implying I have to constantly question why I need leisure time? What will that accomplish?

>>5904918
So what is wrong with philosophy then? Apart from "Stop liking what I don't like!"

>>5904923
The person I was quoting criticised philosophy for not "getting shit done" (whatever that means). I pointed out that criticising not "getting shit done" is hypocritical unless you spend all day working and not engaging in leisure.

>>5904925
You don't accomplish anything yet act like you're superior.

>>5904905
>an insult to logic
enlighten us

>>5904931
Philosophers mever get shit done, they just think about WHY they should get shit done.

>>5904933
>You don't accomplish anything yet act like you're superior.

[citation needed]

>>5904905

Stanford University Philosophy Courses.:

PHIL 23A: The Applicability of Mathematics in Natural Sciences: a Philosophical Problem

PHIL 152: Computability and Logic (PHIL 252)
'
PHIL 252: Computability and Logic (PHIL 152)

PHIL 255: General Interest Topics in Mathematical Logic (PHIL 155)

PHIL 258: Topics in Logic: Ten Problems in Deontic Logic (PHIL 158)


Do you just post bullshit for fun?

>>5904921

>>5904905
do you even know what nihilism is?
Any logical and rational minded human being will wind up accepting nihilism.

>>5904935
It seems as if you don't know anything about philosophy apart from stereotypes.

Using your logic of placing upmost importance on "getting shit done" (whatever that means) then surely music, literature etc. is also useless?

What is getting shit done exactly? Should we spend all waking hours "Getting shit done"?

>>5904940

Died of cancer

Isn't "is philosophy worth it?"A philosophical question?


Philosophy is cool, just not super praxical, you gotta apply for your self.

>>5904692
>I'm a polymath

My Fucking Sides

>>5904940
consciousness is self-evident. I'm experiencing it right now, so I know it must be there.

>>5904922
>appeal to tradition

>>5904934
Take a logic class.

>>5904938
The logic taught to philosophers is a dumbed down version of logic. Philosofags would fail even the most basic mathematical logic course. You guys don't even understand the semantics of an implication.

>>5904944
Go be an edgy teenager somewhere else.

>>5904940
Fuck off.

>>5904962
God is self evident. I can feel him right now, so I know he must be there.

>this is your logic

>>5904947
Industry takes importance if we want to consume more.

>>5904962
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Metaphysical hogwash is not "self-evident".

>>5904964
No u.

mmm...

consciousness.

let's 404 this thread!

>>5904963
I think this guy should be ignored. He doesn't even know science yet he praises it so much because it makes him feel superior.

Run along now, the educated people are talking.

>>5904970

if you washed hogs in metamucil, it would leave a lot of evidence..
are you feverish?

>>5904966
Wikipedia says:
"Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself."
Does this not fucking apply to you?

>>5904969
Extremely vague. What kind of industry? What do we want to consume?
Should EVERYBODY work in industry? Should creators of literature, music etc. be discouraged?

Would you call the likes of Beethoven useless because he didn't advance industry?

>>5904974
I am not a guy and I know more about science and math than you ever will.

>>5904981
>Does this not fucking apply to you?

No, it does not. It's meaningless and untestable garbage. Science is about phenomena with observable effects.

>>5904978
Everything. We need to grow more, and to do so we need to learn more. Material science. Physics. Robotics. All these have immediate impact on our ability to expand our operations, eventually off-planet.

>>5904990
>Everything. We need to grow more

More vagueness. Grow larger? Taller? GDP growth?

> Material science. Physics. Robotics. All these have immediate impact on our ability to expand our operations,

Does the impact need to be immediate? What do you mean operations?

And you never answered the other part of my post which was the most important.

>Should EVERYBODY work in industry? Should creators of literature, music etc. be discouraged?

>Would you call the likes of Beethoven useless because he didn't advance industry?

>>5904986
>observable effects
how do you observe without being conscious?

>>5904999
Observation is a physical process of measurement and does not require any metaphysical intervention. Stop believing in magic.

>>5904999
Ignore. She's here to shitpost and tell everyone how she's a grill who is an expert in science and math (without any evidence) and to try and stop people debating.

>>5905006
Are you seriously telling that poster to ignore science and logic? On a science board? What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>5905003
Consciousness is not magic. It's a product of the brain. I never claimed it was anything else. Why do you assume 'consciousness' has to have a metaphysical connotation?

>>5905003
>what is the measurement problem

>>5905013
The brain is a physical organ and its processes are physical. It is irrational, idiotic and anti-scientific to assume that it produces any dualistic byproducts without observable effects. Something without observable effects does simply not exist. Learn the scientific method and take your dualism shit to >>>/x/

>>5905017
She wouldn't know because the only thing she knows about science is pretending to be an expert on it. Again, she's not here to debate, just to tell everyone to stop debating (while mentioning how brilliant she is and how she is a grill ;) )

good troll ms. science, really got me riled up

>>5905020

that's immpossibru.
Gurls can't do logic. Their brains are too small.

>>5905017
Irrelevant philosophical nonsense. The mathematical models of quantum mechanics make testable predictions. That's all we need in science. Untestable philosophy hogwash about "interpretations" of QM are an unscientific waste of time and the only people who care are underaged pop sci retards who are too stupid to understand the actual science.

>>5904675
just because it was once expected of scientist to learn philosophy doesn't mean it's actually useful.

>>5905037
So basically measurement = magic pointless to understand

>>5905046
Useful for what?
Does something have to be "useful" (pending your explanation of how you define that) in order for people to do it?

Is posting on /sci/ useful? Is listening or creating music useful? Is reading/writing a non scientific book useful? Should we stop these activities?

>>5905049
It's beyond me why you're still replying, when all her posts take the same format
>sage
>insult
>you're wrong
>another insult
>i am great at science
>another insult

No reason to respond to such hogwash. Stop it now.

>>5905049
Do you seriously not understand the scientific method? Did you drop out of primary school or something?

>>5905053
What do you expect from a philososhitposting thread? Ask a science or math question and you might receive a helpful reply (if your question is not too fucking stupid).

>>5905055

observation is measurement

>>5905052
useful for scientists in their profession, can you show me any published papers citing philosophical papers or employing the advice of philosophers?

>>5905067
>useful for scientists in their profession
Is this the same thing as "useful"?

And again, should all things not useful in science be abandoned?

"Does something have to be "useful" (pending your explanation of how you define that) in order for people to do it?

Is posting on /sci/ useful? Is listening or creating music useful? Is reading/writing a non scientific book useful? Should we stop these activities?"

The whole premise of this argument is that philosophy is not "useful", so we're going to have to take a general definition as opposed to a specific one.

>>5904970
What evidence do you have that what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence?

>>5905071
instead of waxing on philosophically about the definition of "useful" maybe you should read the conversation. Just because Philosophy was once taught to scientists, doesn't mean it should be now, or that it belongs on this board.

I'm arguing that since (at least to my knowledge) no scientists need to use philosophy in their line of work it doesn't belong on this board. If someone can find a scientific paper that cites philosophical work or uses a philosopher as an expert that would be something.

>>5905092

It's not about needs. It's a about rights.
Scientists have the right to use Philosophy.
Your objection is overrulled.
Case dismissed.

>>5904648
>2deep4you

lost it

>>5905098
scientist also have the right to jack off, but porn doesn't belong on /sci/, unless it's porn used in a scientific study published in a paper.

>>5904624
Humans are not computers: they can live being hypocritical.

>>5905102

Scientific pr0n is allowed.

>>5905102
never tried spoilering on sci before, learned something new today.

>>5904664
So existentialism is basically happy nihilism?

>>5905324
What is existentialism?

>>5905349
happy nihilism sounded like a good description.
Existentialism is similar in that is accepts the lack of meaning in our lives, but existentialism basically says "who cares, just make your own meaning". It's a good way to live life if you don't mind living a lie, which I don't.

>>5905553
>if you don't mind living a lie, which I don't.
Why would you have to live a lie? I'm well aware that life doesn't have a meaning(very probably) but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy things. Why would I need a meaning?

Existentialism is just a reaction to 19 centuries of being told the world was created for you. To people who didn't care to begin with there is not issue.