/sci/ - Science & Math

YOUR major. Yes, YOURS, the reader.

>>5869907
Jokes on you! I don't have a major!

>>5869899
>Computer Science
>Computer Science
>Computer Science
>Computer Science
>Computer Science

>maths

only 300k starting

>>5869899
5. Mechanical Engineering
4. Theoretical Physics
3. Biology
2. Computer "Science"
1. Anti-racist Mathematics

all activity is "useless", unless you stray from a materialist deterministic view of the universe and into magical thinking

>>5869945
Being determined isn't the same as being useless.

>>5869949
value judgements have no meaning unless we have free will.

>>5869962
Utility is not a value judgement.

>>5869931
>>5869922
Why do people hate compsci?

You can get a high-paying job almost immediately, and yes, it is very much a science.

>>5869964
Of course it is. What "use" does an impersonal universe have for anything?

>>5869969
The same use an internal combustion engine engine has for gasoline.

>>5869972
Exactly, an internal combustion engine cares not whether it is running or idle.

>>5869965
Name me an experiment performed in a lab by a computer "scientist." Explain how they use the scientific method.

>inb4 debugging is called experimenting

>>5869972
Why to you presume an engine wishes to be powered? Perhaps it prefers to rust? See how our values are creeping in?

>>5869980
Software testing is pretty much an experiment.

>>5869965
I suppose you think political science is a science as well.

>>5869975
I didn't say it CARED. I said it had a USE. Utility is not a value judgement. Processes that cannot make judgements can have uses for things.

>>5869988
>guise when my shitty java applet doesn't work i have to keep trying it's pretty like experimenting pls let me be science

>>5869981
I didn't. I said it can use gasoline. As a fuel. Internal combustion engines don't wish or care about anything. They have no process to do so.

>>5869899
Architecture? I only know 4 architects but they all got jobs straight out of college. People build shit all the time, architects have it good.

>commercial art & graphic design
Saying this in a time when more money goes to marketing than research is stupid.

>>5869980
E.g. my team and I did various tests to see which ML algorithm would perform better in a given situation, gathered our results and wrote a paper.

It's almost as if you didn't know what you were talking about.

>>5869993
10/10 le epikk ruse :DDDD

>>5870009
LOL I KNOW. XD XD XD
COMPUTER SCIENCE IS SO LAME LOL OLO LO L OL O LO L OO FAGGOT

Not to mention how compsci is probably the most relevant science for our civilization.

Stay mad I guess.

>>5870000
>(invented) anecdote as evidence

very scientific bro.

most undergrads in any field don't do real science. the scientific method can be applied to almost anything. a lot of comp sci at academia level is maths, which isn't a science. comp eng will often use field results, which is messy, but scientific (as in testable, repeatable)

but if you want to have a sophomoric pissing competition over your chosen major, be my guest and don't let facts stop you.

>>5869999
utility presupposes a desired end result silly.

keyword: desired.

>>5870002
it can also use air so as to rust. or a vacuum so as to stay unchanged.

STEM majors are the opposite of 'useless'

>>5870028
except computer "science"

>>5869922
get a load of this fag

>>5870030
I would rather call it 'software engineering'

>>5870040
>>5870016
>>5870009
>>5869965

>>5870028
architecture is an STEM major

i'm surprised to find it on there.
sure, it's not exactly civil engineering but it still requires significant technical skill and it's still something in demand, right?

>>5870047
computer science and software engineering aren't the same.
and they're both in demand.

>>5870022
No it doesn't. I love how every person trying to defend this can't do it without anthropomorphizing chemical reactions. Fire uses oxygen, although other oxidizers can also be used. Fire doesn't have a desired result. It's a chain reaction. It can happen spontaneously. It STILL has a USE for oxygen.

>>5870024
Yes, yes it can. Those are USES. Utility is not a value judgement.

>>5870059

The only prerequisite is knowing how to draw ugly and impractical buildings without thinking of the consequences

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39403349/ns/travel-news/t/death-ray-vegas-hotel-pool-heats-guests/

>>5870058
Would be better for you to lose your virginity than hate on CompSci.

>>5870074
Too bad only Computer Science majors are virgins.

>>5870024
Actually it uses the moisture in the air. And staying unchanged means no process happens, therefore nothing was USED. Although other process use vacuums, such as adherence through suction.

>>5870071
I think you are using the word 'utility' in an entirely different way than basically everyone else.

>>5870059
Hey, I am a civil engineer. Since day 1 in my 5 years in my major, I figured out how useless architecture engineering is.

In my first year, we took a single course to help us understand how to draw and read architectural drawings in order to work with them later on.

It's a joke, a child could draw a floor plan with the bedrooms and the kitchen.

The only 'science' they learn is a tad of sound and temprature physics in order to pick the correct dimensions and covering finish to ensure proper heat and sound isolation.

>>5870082
Yes, they are anthropomorphizing chemical processes. It's funny. They are confusing USE with USEFUL.

>>5870072
>scientific use of anecdote

Most architects design everyday stable safe buildings based mostly on utility. For instance the building you are currently in.

>>5870009
>my team and I did various tests to see which ML algorithm would perform better
>which ML algorithm would perform better
>algorithm perform better

It's called mathematics.

>>5869899
Marine biology or other stupid fields of biology where you're supposed to go study animals or whatever, which in practice means hunger unless you can find a underpaid job in a museum or actually go live and research the field actively, which again means no money and no way to form a life unless you are specifically into that and your dream is spending weeks in the dirt to take footage of wild animals.

>>5870059
>architecture is an STEM major
nope.

>>5870089
Although to be fair I shouldn't have said "utility is not a value judgement," as utility requires a desired end product. It is use that has no value judgement.

>>5870077
People that need an imaginary superiorty complex are virgins, like yourself. The reality is, you will never achieve what Computer Sciences achieves, you probably don't even understand how the computer works you are typing this on.

I don't care what your major is, or what shitty uni you study at, but you're a frustrated loser.

Non premed/graduate track biology

If science is trying to describe the world in relation to math, and computers are completely described by math, then what kind of "science" can you do on something that has no need for it.

I know computer science is hard, but its' not a science.

>>5870094
I am pretty sure it's called CS. Go and ask your uni about Machine Learning. You're just an ignorant retard who has no idea about maths or CS.

0/10

>>5870105
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_science

>>5869980
CS is to math what engineering is to physics.

You don't discover, you invent.
You don't experiment, you test.
You don't ask for money, you make them.

But any actual computer science is just math.

I decided to major in chemistry and get a PharmD.

>>5870101
Oh, so I have an imaginary superiority complex. I can really tell you don't have an imaginary superiority complex in telling me that I have a problem, telling me I'm too dumb to understand computers, and resorting becoming so frustrated yourself.

You are acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum.

You guys know not everyone majoring in computer science aspires to be a faceless Java/.Net drone developing "enterprise" software for a corporation, yes?

>>5870120
>frustrated

use of harsh language != frustration

>>5870138
Harsh language?
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

Nah, you're pretty cool bro. I like you.

>>5869931
>Mechanical Engineering
>useless
u srs?

>>5870161
Exactly.

>most versatile engineering degree
>useless
pick one

>>5870161
What's with /sci/'s hate for Mechanical Engineering?

>>5870111
>>5870112

>implying P vs. NP isn't pure mathematics
>implying every algorithm ever made for computing wasn't designed by a number theorist
>implying CS kiddies know how to prove an algorithm will terminate/do what it's intended to do

A fine arts degree from Harvard is better than a stem degree from crappy state university.

Keep in mind the entire entertainment industry is run by people with 'shit tier' majors. CBS TV is run by a Spanish major and ABC TV Division by a Portuguese major. How long would a stem dork ever last in the tv/movie business?

Boeing is run by a Yale American Studies major.

>>5870202

http://www.businessinsider.com/ceos-majored-in-engineering-2011-3?op=1

And 33% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies have engineering degrees. See how you list extraordinary exceptions whereas I have a trend? So go ahead and major in American Studies if you believe you'll end up like the CEO or hell drop out and end up like Bill Gates...right?

Exceptions to a general rule.

>>5870202

This shit again? These people are the exceptionally rare exception to the rule. The odds of becoming a CEO are much higher with business or STEM degrees.

>>5870111
It should be mathematically possible to prove which algorithm will perform better and this has no connection to any experiment. Running a test to see which is better is easier than proving one is definitively better, but the fact that it is possible to absolutely prove the thing removes it from the natural sciences which are inherently lacking in the absolute proof possible in CS. To this end, CS is an extension of mathematics which has become sufficiently specialized to warrant its own field, but with heavy crossover remaining.

>>5870202
That may explain some of Boeing's "recent" policy decision problems.

>>5870191

They couldn't complete the basic mechanical engineering classes and had to change to something like environmental engineering to finish their degree. Basically the fox and the grapes.

>not having at least a BA in a scienctific discipline
I pity humanities students

>Computer Science
>Comp Sci
>CS
>IT
>Biology

architects are very well paid...

>>5870219
Actually not so sure. Once you are hitting Ivy League in many cases the actual subject doesn't matter. An english major can sell their soul to the city for mega bucks just as easily as a maths major. Obviously there are fields that each major can't access that the other can, but an undergrad degree is pretty much just a badge saying "I am reasonably intelligent and capable of doing something worthwhile".

I would employ an Ivy arts student over a state engineer any day of the week.

>>5869899

>>5870016
That's computer engineering

>>5870136
>You guys know not everyone majoring in computer science aspires to be a faceless Java/.Net drone developing "enterprise" software for a corporation, yes?

Then they are retarded because whatever they wanted from CS, its not there at the undergrad level.

>>5870254
Uh, you mean Big Three (Harvard, Yale, Princeton). Not Ivy League in its entirety.
Well, maybe UPenn for Wharton, but apart from that, do you really think some guy from Cornell or Brown will have the same chances as someone from HYP? Not quite. The networks there aren't the same, the reputation isn't the same...

What's the best major to get into (STEM, not Buisness bullshit) to become a startup founder/entrepreneur?
Or is it not important in any way?

>>5870274
Any degree from Cornell is better tan a stem degree from North Dakota St.

>>5870285
I don't know if it's as valuable than a degree from HYP though... I think there are different "tiers" in the Ivy, HYP being the top, UPenn/Columbia being the mid, and Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell being the low.
Surprisingly, Brown is very famous though, at least as much as Yale. I don't know why.

Also, recognition depends on the states. Cornell will not have the same "wow factor" in California than it does in the East Coast. A guy with a degree from UCLA or even UCSD will get the job over the Cornell guy. It's about perspective.

>>5870285
Yea I'm sure english majors from harvard applying to mechanical engineering positions get them over all those low-tier state schoolers who majored in ME right? That's about as much sense as you're making. Going to a higher ranked school means you are more competitive
>in your field
>in your field
>in your field

which is why an engineer from Georgia Tech or RPI could get jobs over an engineer from URochester or Columbia even though those schools are ranked higher.

You realize Harvard ranked as #1 school doesn't mean all it's departments are ranked #1 or that non-stem disciplines can walk into stem jobs because omgharvardletmesuckyourdick

>>5870191
jelly

>>5870317
>Harvard ranked as #1
Stanford would be number one, now. MIT and Caltech (maybe Cal) are first for STEM.
Even in terms of reputation, other schools are catching up with Harvard.

I wonder, though - is a Master's, an MBA or a PhD from HYP as valuable as a bachelor's?

Since when is it cool to be an engineer now?

>>5870327
Only on /sci/. Not in the real world of course...

>>5870327
well the gays have been gaining a lot of acceptance in recent decades.

>>5870317
The top jobs for new engineers are in business, not engineering. The better the school the more this is true. Many engineering majors have no interest in the subject they just do it for back up.

If you work at say Credit Suisse in NYC your boss will likely be an Amherst history major with a Top 10 MBA. Big business is where dork stem majors have to compete with very social people.

>>5870325
>not based Cambridge
But anon is broadly correct. Ivies aren't all equal. And there are non-Ivy schools equivalent or better. Any degree from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Oxford or Cambridge is better than a STEM degree from a lesser institution.

You don't need a diploma to be an engineer.

captcha unconscious newscum

>>5869899
>pic

Why is Architecture on there? I mean, we make fun of and all, but it doesn't deserve to be called more useless than women's studies.

>>5869899 ONLY CORRECT ANSWER
>top five "useless" STEM majors?
1. Psychology
2. Anthropology
3. Environmental science
4. Ecology
5. Bachelors degree in any research intensive Physical Science (since you won't get a job until you finish grad).

>>5870059
>STEM major
Closer to art than a tech major.

>>5870351
>>Cambridge
Sorry, I only considered the US. But yes, Cambridge is probably on par with HYP. And better in STEM than all of the Ivies (except maybe Princeton).

Oxford isn't really that recognized for STEM. It's better at humanities and social sciences stuff.
Oxford is like Yale, while Cambridge is more like Princeton.

>Ivies aren't all equal
Yes. Well it depends on the subject, if we're talking about social sciences, for example, I think Brown = Yale = Harvard > *

>Caltech
It's an awesome school but it hasn't got a lot of recognition. And its prestige internationally is nonexistent.

>>5870233
>Basically the fox and the grapes.
loled heartily

Does it really matter where you study STEM as long as it's a good school?
I mean, why should, say, Yale (which is said to be less brilliant with science) be less prestigious than MIT if both have the same acceptance rate? It's all down to the networking and connections

Also don't forget LACs
Williams, Amherst, Reed, to name a few

>>5870249
If they are employed at all, which most of them aren't.

>>5870275
>What's the best major to get into (STEM, not Buisness bullshit) to become a startup founder/entrepreneur?
>Or is it not important in any way?
Mechanical-, Electrical- or Chemical Engineering. Since you obviously don't have capital or any novel idea, you're only hope is to get some established company to invest in your unique product, anything else will get crushed instantly in an established economy. The likelihood of you inventing/developing some useful product or process will only be increased by the aforementioned majors.


One of my professor used to say. You study Engineering with the hope of creating wonderful things, instead all you get is the ability to do the Math that shows why your ideas are impossible.

>>5870262

the difference between the two degrees vary in like 20-30 units.


but then again people here seem to think ba econ degrees are god tier so what do I know

>>5870327
>Since when is it cool to be an engineer now?
Always? Only in US' anti-intellectual culture will idiot teenagers think it's not one of the most respectable professions.

>>5870390
All kinds of engineering? Or only these three?
>Chemical
How can ChemE be useful if I'm willing to found a tech startup? Think Silicon Valley, etc.
CS would be the most logical thing to do but I don't want to, it sounds like some kind of easier math for future code monkeys.
>established company
What about venture capitalists and all?
I guess that's why going to a good school is important, because VCs will be more likely to invest, no?
Furthermore, if I'm going a tech startup, there's no worries to have about getting "crushed" - web services and all that shit usually don't work like that, do they?

That's a cool albeit depressing quote. Isn't it also true with Physics, Cosmology, etc?

why is everyone hating on biology :(

>>5870397
In the U.S. doctor's and lawyers are respected most.

>>5870327
Recent legislation mandates it

>>5870396
> tech startup? Think Silicon Valley, etc.
You didn't say that, don't blame me for your lack of commutation's skills.

Anyway ChemEs have traditionally been the biggest job creators. Aside from being the biggest inventors in terms of Industrial processes and equipment etc. It's probably the easiest to establish a small company with a ChemE knowledge be, in developing economies almost every ChemE eventually owns his own company.

>CS
Only if you do it at a proper uni, I don't think it's possible to break into the current market though.

>venture capitalists
Basically a myth, the success rates for these is so low, I can tell you it won't happen for you as sure as I can tell you gravity won't be turned off any time soon.

You need a really, really, REALLY good product and then you also need to be competent enough to run a business.
>I guess that's why going to a good school is important, because VCs will be more likely to invest, no?
Sure, and because most of your ideas are stupid and impractical, as you will discover during undergrad.
>Furthermore, if I'm going a tech startup, there's no worries to have about getting "crushed" - web services and all that shit usually don't work like that, do they?
I don't know tbh, I'm not familiar enough with the industry.

>Physics, Cosmology, etc?
Every 1st year thinks he's going to win nobel prize, it's pathetic.

Have to go to bed now, I still recommend you get a degree in the fields I mentioned, maybe electronics/computer too, it's the only things that will mildly help you towards your specific goal, every other degree is waste of time for you or you could learn what you need from it in a few hour's long webcourse

>>5870411
>In the U.S. doctor's and lawyers are respected most.
>respected most.
>>5870397
>one of the most respectable professions.
>one of the most
>one

I wish /sci/ would learn to read. Also last time I heard the job market for your lawyers was hopelessly over-saturated.

>>5870403
>hating
Why do people keep abusing this word.

We don't hate any of you. We just don't respect you.

>>5870431
>respect
even if I'm in the honors division of my university and performing research?

I'm not trying to come off as pompous, I'm genuinely curious if it changes anything.
Plus my majors biochemistry and not biology so

>>5870431
>implying my cambridge genetics BA isn't more valuable than your community college maths degree

>>5870450
>implying you have a cambridge genetics degree

>>5870450
>BA

>>5870453
As of Thursday, yes

>>5870465
All undergraduate courses at the University of Cambridge lead to a single degree, the Bachelor of Arts. When you graduate, providing you pass the necessary examinations, you will be awarded a BA Hons. (Cantab.).