/sci/ - Science & Math

>>5787760
bump. any help would be much appreciated.

>>5787760
just watch khan academy and maybe buy a university textbook

bump

Take codeacademy.com's python class if you are really a true beginner.

If you have a little more confidence in yourself, do
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/

>>5787798
I have literally no computer science knowledge so codeacademy it is

>>5787798
Also what I mentioned will teach you programming, but not necessarily computer science.

In my opinion, you should know a programming language before you learn computer science.

Technically you can learn comp sci without any programming, but the context that programming provides really helps you grasp what data structures and algorithms are really about.

After you feel comfortable with programming, start to work your way through a data structures and alogirthms book. Doesn't really matter which one, any of the popular ones are good.

>>5787760
>Terms of a book, what does /sci/ recommend.

Depends on what topics you want to see, a general foundation would be:

Programming:
C++ Primer Plus
C++ Primer
Data Abstraction & Problem Solving with C++
(The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference)
Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment
The C++ Programming Language

Hardware 101:
Digital Design: Principles and Practices
-------------
Electric Circuits by Nilsson & Riedel
Microelectronic Circuits by Sedra or Microelectronic Circuit Design by Jaeger

Math Background:
Linear Algebra and Its Applications by Strang
Ordinary Differential Equations by Tenenbaum
A Transition to Advanced Mathematics
Numerical Analysis by Burden
Probability and Stochastic Processes
(A First Course in Probability)
Linear Algebra by Shilov
Complex Variables by Fisher
Signals and Systems by Oppenheim
-----------------------
Discrete-Time Signal Processing by Oppenheim
Partial Differential Equations by Strauss

Architecture, OS, Networking:
Computer Organization and Design: The Hardware/Software Interface
(Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective )
Operating System Concepts
Unix Network Programming, Volume 1: The Sockets Networking API
An Introduction to Parallel Programming
Linux Kernel Development
--------------------------
Linux Device Drivers
Understanding the Linux Kernel

Theoretical CS:
Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest, Stein
Programming Languages by Tucker
Engineering a Compiler
Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools
Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach
Introduction to the Theory of Computation, by Sipser
Theory of Computation by Kozen

Physics:
Introduction to Electrodynamics, Griffiths
---------------------------
Shankar's Principles of Quantum Mechanics
An Introduction to Thermal Physics
Elementary Solid State Physics, Omar
Introduction to Solid State Physics, Kittel
Solid State Physics, Ashcroft

Ruby's probably the easiest language out there, with tons of easy tutorials online via googlesearch. Would save you money, considering you're bio, like I said, Ruby is by far the /easiest/ language out there and would at least introduce you to the basic/fundamental concepts of programming before jumping into some of the other ones.

>>5788856
Couldn't find at the time of the post, but I suggest this one, probably the 'funnest' way to learn it.

http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/book/chapter-1.html

>>5788856
Couldn't find at the time of the post, but I suggest this one, probably the 'funnest' way to learn it, also simplifying some of the more complex problems and functions, making it far easier in understanding.

http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/book/chapter-1.html

>>5787769
> Khan Academy
Have you even seen their "Computer Science" topics:
> Drawing
> Animation
> User Interaction
> Programming Basics

That's fine if you just want to learn how to code some simple stuff, but there's a lot more to CS than that.

If you want to learn Computer Science, I would recommend you to visit http://www.aduni.org/courses/ and take their "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs", "Theory of Computation", "Algorithms" and "Discrete Maths" courses. Your code will be way better.

>>5787965
The majority of this ain't CS.

I can recommend http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/ . Formerly titled "how to think like a computer scientist", it's a good introduction to the fundamental craft of computer science -- programming -- for those wanting to seriously study computer science and the casually interested alike.

>>5789576
yeah where's
Introduction to GUI Design in Java
UML handbook
Theory of Cock Sucking
Easy Math
Intermediate Videogaming pew pew pew

>>5787965


wow thats so helpful cheers mate!

>>5789594
I don't think you know what CS is.
I think you think that programmers are computer scientists, which is very silly.

>>5789603
computer science is what exactly ?

>>5789604
It's more theoretical. Programming is important but it's not the most important part of CS. It's just one, albeit big, application. Computer Science is mostly abstract math.

>>5789604
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science
Computer science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes

>>5789594
don't forget "CP database hiding for beginners", "IT: how to make money fixing their computers", and "How to claim multiplication is NP-complete for idiots"

>>5789607
>Computer Science is mostly abstract math.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

>>5789632
...but it is

>>5789632
You don't know what you're talking about and as a result you've just boasted your own ignorance.

>>5789632
retard / 10

>>5789576
Why not? There's

Programing
Data Structures
Networking
Digital Logic/Circuits/Baby Physics
Computer Architecture
OS Design
Linux Fundamentals
Probability
Discrete Math
Calculus, Linear Algebra, DEs
Fourier Analysis
Numerical Methods
Algorithms Analysis
Programming Languages
Compilers
Automata, Computability, and Complexity Theories
AI
Parallel/Distributed Systems

The only things missing are Website design, IT, SQL, UML, GUI design and other crap like that hardly counts as "CS"

>>5789635
No, it isn't.

>>5789638
Please take a real math course.

>>5789642
>projecting

>>5789661
so enlighten us, what is CS

>>5789638
He's a troll. Don't feed him.

>>5789642
>>5789638
>>5789635
>implying fucking around with sets, induction, "the pigeon hole principal", and diagonalization proofs makes CS abstract math.

Let me guess, you probably also think Sipser's book counts as a math text.

>>5789632
>HAHAHAHAHAHA, no.
So let me get this straight. Studying, say, the formal system of lambda calculus does NOT count as abstract math? If so, what does?

>>5789669
The way CS is taught at almost all universities it is a business monkey degree. The only reason to go for it is to quickly receive a piece of paper that allows you to enter a low salary job.

>>5789672
No trolling in here. I'm not her but what she said was correct. In CS you do not learn any kind of math going beyond high school basics.

>>5789682
>In CS you do not learn any kind of math going beyond high school basics.
Then you're doing it wrong. Other people do learn stuff like that.

>>5789682
>The way CS is taught at almost all universities it is a business monkey degree.
Perhaps, but we were discussing CS, not what passes for it in crap-tier universities.

>>5789681
If you have to ask, you are beyond redemption. Please lurk more.

>>5789686
Can you answer the question first, then?

>>5789684
Stuff like what? Tell me what "higher" math you learned.

>>5789687
We're discussing the ignorant statement of an anon who claimed it was "abstract math". Clearly it isn't.

>>5789693
>We're discussing the ignorant statement of an anon who claimed it was "abstract math". Clearly it isn't.
What passes for computer science in crap-tier universities is not. Actual computer science is. If you dispute that last part, why did you bring up the code-money universities in the first place?

>>5789697
Show me what "actual computer science" is.

>>5789681
>the formal system of lambda calculus
Which is just an obfuscated way of describing a Turing machine which doesn't count as math (fucking around with graphs all day doesn't make you a graph theorist either).

>>5789687
All undergrad cs programs are crap-tier

>>5787965
why would you ever want a beginner to learn C++
just why.
OP stick with languages like Python, Java, C#, stay away from C++. for your purposes there is no need to learn it at the moment. don't lsiten to this fool.

>>5789723
>why would you ever want a beginner to learn C++
>just why.

Why not? Just because it has a lot of depth to it doesn't make it harder than others. It's faster, cleaner, and the most widely used.

On the other hand, why the fuck would you ever recommend the abomination of Java (and to a less extent C#) to permanently ruin someone with?

>>5789723
>Java

>>>/g/ t f o!

>>5787965

>Giving Griffiths to a guy who's never seen EM before
>Giving Griffiths to a bio major

The fuck are you doing?

>>5789787
Griffiths is an introductory book for freshman. WTF is wrong with you?

>>5789787
being a bio major its safe to assume he had already had the equivalent of Gen Physics I&II and Calc since that's the standard premed requirements so he should be ready for it. Griffiths isn't that hard anyway, it's not like he recommend Jackson

>>5789760
so lisp is the best?

>>5789824
It's really awesome to fuck around with but in the end you're just fucking around with it.

>>5789682
Most of my CS professors have PhD's in mathematics. You are wrong

>>5790334
How does that prove me wrong? It only proves my point. Mathematicians can become CS professors but not the other way round. You will never know as much as your professors.

>>5790334
And what does that have to do with the undeniable shittiness of undergrad CS? If fact it proves that CSers are too stupid to contribute to their own field...

>>5790348
>le implying implications

>>5790366
What she said is true though. The field of CS was founded and is researched by mathematicians, physicists, engineers etc, but hardly ever by people who graduated with a degree in CS. A degree in CS does neither prepare nor qualify you to contribute to the field of CS because the programs at almost all universities are designed solely to make students become business tier "software engineering" monkeys. The curricula are catering to anti-intellectuals who despise math and who want nothing but a quick diploma in order to get a job.

>>5790375
Wow... you just went full retard

>founded by mathematicians, physicists, engineers

Fucking obviously! How could computer science majors found something before computer science ever existed?

CS majors who choose to stay in academia are the biggest contributors to the field. But the fact is most choose to go into industry. You guys are negative fucks

What language do you want to learn? I started with thenewboston videos but after some time it didnt go into detail, but was ok as a start.

>>5790392
>CS majors who choose to stay in academia are the biggest contributors to the field.

By publish paper perhaps but take a look at papers published in CS. They're nearly all just an inconsequential improvements to an actual breakthrough made a decade ago. Very little work in CS is actually done in academia.

>ITT: Guy who can't into computer science is mad
probably had to witch to liberal arts, the poor bastard.

>>5790375
CS education isnt bad, it just tends to attract some people who dont nderstand what it is about

>>5790392
CS majors are not prepared to stay in academia or to contribute anything to research. With babby's first java enterprise GUI programming and babby's first "let's draw a DFA" they are no better prepared for theoretical stuff than a high schooler who picked up a book once.

>>5790417
I cannot take a degree serious, where it's possible to pass its allegedly "hardest" courses with straight A's by simply skimming through power point presentations one day before the exam.

>>5787760
>literally not knowing what CS is
>literally thinking CS is programming
My /sci/des!

>>5790439
Did you do a degree in CS that you now feel is worthless?

>>5790449
I almost did. I'm glad I realized just in time how worthless it is.

>>5790439
Ok at your shit tier school maybe.

Go to a legitimate computer science program like I do.

It is the 3rd hardest major at my school behind physics and mathematics.

Your shitty state school or no name private school probably just hired some java programmers and called it a computer science department.

>>5790493
>behind physics and mathematics.

You are confirming my point.

>>5790402
>http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hinton/absps/tics.pdf
> inconsequential improvements to an actual breakthrough made a decade ago
Lol'd heartily, thank you!
By the way, I hope you realize nearly all math and physics contribution are just an inconsequential improvement on actual breakthroughs made decades ago.

>>5790439
>>5790456
>>5790515

>I'm a dumb murrikan dropout form a community college, therefore everyone else is, as well!

>>5790516
I am studying at a european elite university. Stop projecting, plebeian.

>>5790515
>not the absolute hardest
fucking CS plebs

>>5790515
You just changed your point.

>I win le arguements

>>5790525
link to you cs department webpage

>>5790526
I did not change my point. Way to expose your lack of reading comprehension.

>>5790493
>Go to a legitimate computer science program like I do.

There is no such thing.

>>5790543
lol no. I'm not gonna reveal personal data on 4chan.

>>5790525
>european elite university
>european university

pls... staph. Euro universities just rehash what us american's pioneer.

>>5790535
So... because CS is not the hardest major.

That means CS majors are incompetent and cannot contribute to their own field?

You're just trolling now surely.

>>5790547
So there is a total of one person in you cs department?

>>5790554
top kek

>>5790558
I am stating observations.

>>5790573
My geographical location is none of your business.

>>5790577
Fine, then what make your cs dept so hardcore? Is it the babies first probability/algorithms/compilers/computability?

Everything CS majors study is trivial as fuck.

jesus fucking christ stop responding to this retard

>>5790595
That's exactly my point. Are you addressing the wrong poster? Throughout the thread I explained why CS is trivial and non-academic.

>>5790611
nobody cares. shut the fuck up and go jerk yourself off with a math textbook.

>>5790611
My bad, I thought you were the same guy claiming <span class="math">[/spoiler]>It is the 3rd hardest major at my school behind physics and mathematics.

>>5787965

>>5789677
>"the pigeon hole principal"
There's a principal that pigeon holes people? That's not very professional, he shouldn't be allowed to continue as a educational administrator.

>>5790977
>>>/lit/

>>5789573
wrong section m8
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/computer-science

also the all around consensus for best starting point in programming is:
>The C Programming Language
>Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

>>5790539

So what the fuck did you major in then? CS is an awesome major right now. Projected to have a ton of jobs not filled in 5 years from now.

I'm going to wisconsin next year, tied in CS rank by US news as tied with caltech for 11th globally. I will be swimming in jobs if I maintain a decent GPA and do some side projects.

In general, I recommend learning from a couple of books simultaneously. They will explain things from different perspectives, and reinforce what you learned from the other.

If you're serious about learning, I'd recommend learning with SICP and Concrete Abstractions (both free). SICP is the better book, but CA fleshes out the concepts more, and gives you more chances to practice. You may also want to look into HTDP.

Regardless, I absolutely recommend that you watch the SICP lectures religiously until you understand everything they have to teach. All of it is vital.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Op3QLzMgSY&feature=share&list=PL8FE88AA54363BC46

>>5789698
The formalization of problem solving.

>>5789771
/g/ hates java. They get hard over C and Lisp.

>>5789824
It's the best at what it does, and what it does is totally different than C and the languages that build on C.

People say it's useless, and that's because they've convinced themselves that C and Java are the only things it's possible to program in. You don't judge a submarine by its maneuverability on the highway, and Lisp is very, very good at what it's for.

>>5790375
Quit looking at shit universities. Of course Ivy Tech is going to churn out a monkey degree, it's what they do.

>>5791118
Everyone hates java. Putting it on your resume is a one way ticket to the paper shredder.

>>5791049
>I'm going to wisconsin next year

For undergrad? A belief look at the course syllabi shows that standard pathetically easy and pitiful courses up until the 700 level (which seems to be the start of their graduate program.) The Major barely requires any math. Like I said, all undergrad cs programs are a joke.

Major in ECE and only take graduate 7xx CS courses instead.

read sicp

>>5791174
You're never going to have the required mathematical background by going ECE, contrary to going CS, which has actual math unless you're going to one of those US dumbfuck concentration camps I keep hearing about.

>>5793139
ECE does far more math than CS majors. Hell that program (wisconsin) only requires Calc II and nothing more.

>>5793712
That's because that program is complete shit. Every CS worth anything requires at the very, very least up to calc 3, lin. alg., discrete maths, prob & stats. As for classes that use maths, many offer or require operational research classes to be completed (introductory classes usually deal with different forms of convex optimization problems), theoretical informatics, data structures and algorithmic. Rest are elective. On the other hand, ECE only needs up to calc 3 and discreet maths.

>>5787760
Algorithms in C

If you can't handle this book, you'll know that programming is not for you; if that happens to be the case, I hear IT is a burgeoning field right now.

If C++ weenies had their way, every cook would also be a farmer, a truck driver, a truck repairman, a construction worker, a butcher, a baker, a metallurgist, a blacksmith, and furthermore every cook (-farmer-truck-driver-repairman-construction-worker-butcher-baker-metallurgist-blacksmith) would use just one massive toolbox for every problem.

Then the lisp weenie writes a recipe and hires someone else to do it, who writes their instructions and hires someone else to do it, who...

>>5794837
If C babby-ducks had their ways, Leonardo da Vinci would have been the prime kill-on-sight target.

>>5789677
But CS is abstract math
Taking pure math is even more hardcore and I assume you are either a mathematician or a physicist, but this doesnt mean all CS is babby shit

>>5794777
>On the other hand, ECE only needs up to calc 3 and discreet maths
The fuck are you smoking? Probability plays a far more important role in EE/CompE than it does in cs curricula. To be ABET accredited a ECE program needs at least Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra, ODEs, PDEs, Fourier Analysis, Linear systems/signals, Probability, and Discrete Math + more math electives.

>>5795942
>but this doesnt mean all CS is babby shit
yeah, it does.

>>5795968
ODEs and PDEs are implicit parts of calc 1 and 2 respectively in any non-turd country. Likewise, vector calculus is part of lin. alg., and fourier analysis is part calc 3 and a high-school physics class. That is to say, unless you're in murrika, land of the free lack of education, all of those are 100% required for CS. On the other hand, probs, discreet maths, and linear systems are not required in ECE, and signal processing is not required in compE.

>>5795987
I do invite you to examine complexity theory, genus.
Oh, what's that? You want something slightly more practical? How about you try and architect a meaningful peace of software?

> Muh elitism
go get a job.

>>5794828

> C is all
> C is everything
Give me a fucking break.

>>5795990
>probability not required
No.
>signals not required in CompE
Any program worth its salt makes CompE majors take a signals class.

I'm not saying that engineers will evre cover as much theory as actual math/physics majors. But les jus be real kay?

>fourier analysis is part calc 3 and a high-school physics class

Learning how to take a Fourier transform isn't fourier analysis retard.

>ODEs and PDEs are implicit parts of calc 1 and 2

Please shut up if you don't know anything. (If troll, 7/10)

>>5796012
>Any program worth its salt makes CompE majors take a signals class.
And any program worth its salt makes CS majors go through at least Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra, ODEs, PDEs, Linear systems, Probability, and Discrete Math + more math electives.

>>5796021
>I live in a country of retards, therefore anyone that's not retarded is trolling!

>>5796000
There's a C++ version of the book too

>>5796029
>Covering all of the theory of ODEs in a week or 2
>Covering all of the theory of PDEs in a week or 2
>My country must be awesome and I must know everything there is in PDEs/ODEs

CS in a nutshell:
>Learn about basic cryptography in class
>Knows everything about abstract algebra and algebraic geometry

>>5796045
>literally confirming you're retarded
>2013

>>5796072
Why so jealous of real scientists?

>>5795990
>On the other hand, probs, discreet maths, and linear systems are not required in ECE
>>5796027
>CS majors go through at least PDEs, Linear systems
Why would CS majors need to know Linear systems? Are you sure you don't live in one of those countries that swap the CS and CompE titles around.

Just to be very clear:
EE = Electronics Engineering not what everyone else calls "Electrical" Engineering (though if you really want you can go into power systems, etc)
CompE = EE focused on computer hardware and related low level stuff + algorithms and coding/networking/etc
CS==SE: code monkeying with a complexity theory class if you're lucky and 2-3 handwaving watered down baby tier math courses. inb4:<span class="math">[/spoiler]>implying you study any interesting graduate CS topics in undergrad CS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering#Electronics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_Engineering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_engineering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering

>>5796092
>CompE
>algorithms
>CS == SE
10/10 would laugh my ass off again!

>>5796092
>why would CS majors need to know linear systems

..

here we go

...

hi

>>5796125
So why would CS majors need to know linear systems?

>>5789632
lol this mathfag thinks hes edgy

go home nobody likes you

>>5796160

>>5789596
It's people like YOU that make the world a better place

>>5789596
>think
>python

pick one