/sci/ - Science & Math

where are the aliens?

They are at home.
There's nothing worth looking at here.

>>5740359
There's many reasons why there is no evidence of aliens despite there being "billions of habitable planets". The best one is time.

Intelligent life has existed on earth for just about 2 million years, which is a small percentage of how long Earth has been around, which is a small percentage of how long the universe has existed.

The entire existence of the human species is a speck on the universal time line, so what's to say hundreds of other intelligent life forms haven't evolved and gone extinct before us?

The aliens are doing the same things we're doing:

Fucking around on the planet, trying to make money, while the sudden plethora of fossil fuels hold out. And then those fuels run out, and technological civilization pretty much collapses, and the species remains planetbound forever after.

That's why the Silent Sky. The latter parts of the Drake Equation are a LOT smaller than Sagan et al would admit. Technological civilizations wipe themselves out, at least to the level when they become technologically insignificant. They can't sustain spaceflight, so they never expand to fill their solar systems. There are no Dyson Structuures (spheres, clouds, rings, cylinders or other Dyson topologies) in our galaxy, and given the sheer number of stars with long-lived habitable zones, there should have been many Dyson Structures visible to us by now.

This is the truth. And Humans can't admit it.

>>5740397
>This is the truth. And Humans can't admit it.

>>5740397
Drake equation is more of a pop culture pandering guess than a rigorous equation. And likewise for dyson structures. They're inefficient, require an abuse or resources, easily damaged, lack maintenance and more.
Stop watching discovery kids.

Also christians riddle me this, what if your god is actually an alien

How do you know we're not aliens? If other life forms existed out their we would be aliens to them
Also life just happens man try not to think too much about this you'll drive yourself mad

>>5740431
>How do you know we're not aliens?

>>5740431
>How do you know we're not aliens?
I was created in the image of God. If you want to think you're an alien or ape, that's fine with me.

>try not to think too much about this you'll drive yourself mad
anti-intellectualism goes to >>>/b/

That's not impossible.
But we wouldn't be able to meet them due to how fast galaxies are moving away from each other.
We can't even detect their presence because the lights of the stars in our sky are lights from the past.

>>5740397
Or maybe space is really vast and the likelihood of signals actually reaching here in any sort of coherent form is next to nil?

There could be vast civilizations out there and we wouldn't know.

>>5740428
>inefficient
Well, if it's a dyson swarm and not a sphere, I could see that, but otherwise, there's nothing more efficient than capturing 100% of a star's energy.
>abuse of resources
Sure, it would take a fuckload of stuff to make it.
>easily damaged
Yeah, if you made it with current materials, sure. The dyson sphere idea has always been predicated on the development of some sort of super strong carbon based composite. Think like graphene.
>lack maintenance
Well, something made of a super strong carbon composite wouldn't degrade very fast, and could easily be repaired at the nanoscale by an automated system. So what is your problem?

>>5740444
>created

you didn't have parents?

Science deals with things that are observable or measurable. Aliens, religion and similar fantasy hokum belong on >>>/x/

Btw evolution doesn't say anything about abiogenesis, you uneducated plebs.

Ah, the fermi paradox.

>>5740397 provides good details.

Radio signals will be heavily warped from travelling any considerable distance - we can see stars from the other side of the galaxy, but picking up a radio signal would be next to impossible, assuming aliens even use radio in the ways we expect.

What about a hunter scenario, whereby a race destroys all other intergalactic species to remain lord of the galaxy? Assuming such I case, it wouldn't be too hard to assume the hunters had FTL communication or acted in ways we couldn't even detect.

Hell, maybe we are the first, or part of an emerging 'group' of space flight capable races of which signals simply haven't traversed over to us yet.

>>5740455

Sorry, that explanation doesn't hold water. A vast civilization emits. And it exploits. All that is detectable to some degree. The Dyson Structures would be the most noticeable, and in terms of astronomy science, they would be VERY noticeable. Stellar occlusion is a very precise indicator of many things, so we collect a lot of data on those.

>>5740411

You're right. It does feel bad, man. But we really deserve it. We're the dumbest intelligent species that we know. The average White IQ in the First World is only 100. Know what that means? It means the average White person in North America and Europe is only capable of living as a subordinate worker and consumer, barely able to make it 80 years to merely replicate their socio-economic model in his children.

Humans need to become smarter. And there are many, many barriers to that. Smart people are really fairly isolated in all societies, so they end up fairly sociopathic, which is not the social model that works.

OP fails to grasp the distances that separate astronomical bodies.

Rectify your ignorance rather than trolling for conflict, sir.

>>5740532
>average IQ is only 100
IQ scores are adjusted so the average is 100

What makes you think aliens developed interstellar travel?
What if faster than light isn't possible?
Then we're stuck in our bubble forever, able only to reach the closest of stars with a few hundred to thousand of years distance between us.
And what would an advanced civilization have to gain in contact?
Minerals?
please, 3 other rocky planets, numerous dwarf planets. Heck an entire asteroid belt, not too mention the kupiter belt and the oort cloud.
Slaves?
robots don't eat, rebel, easier to maintain
And seriously, trying to be diplomatic to another species is, well... just look what happened to the native Americans.

If they're capable of interstellar travel, they're capable of a little forethought.

>>5740532

>average IQ is only 100

Thanks a ton, I burst out laughing. The worst thing is that someone like you suggests 'humans need to become smarter' and that 'smart people end up fairly sociopathic', which not only is false, the adjective you are looking for is 'intelligent', but even in that case people with a high 'social intelligence' actually manage to understand society and human interaction at a higher level than you ever could and therefore can easily partake.

>>5740590
>social intelligence
This belongs to >>>/x/ and has nothing to do with interstallar colonization unlike actual intelligence.

>where are the aliens?

Hidden in plain 4D sight, their business is Human Farming.

>>5740511
A dyson sphere would be a perfect blackbody and wouldn't emit anything. We wouldn't know it was there. Of course, you'd notice if one popped up- but one made many millions of years ago would not show any sign that it was created.

Additionally, as I said, due to the vast distances of space, all of those signals might be indistinguishable from the background radiation by the time they get here. The only way for us to receive a signal would for it to be directed at us in a concentrated beam- and we have received a few interesting signals that we thought might have been a sort of communication, but proved inconclusive.

Additionally, advanced civilizations may use some sort of particle based communication as opposed to radio waves. We're already exploring using neutrinos to communicate with submarines which radio waves can't reach, so who knows what an advanced civ might cook up for communication purposes.

what if we are in a computer program/simulation created to study whatever

>>5740359
A 0.5% difference in DNA makes us 'intelligent' and chimpanzees 'not intelligent' and not worthy of interest most of the time, and not of interest for the huge majority of activities you do with humans. You wouldn't bring your chimpanzee to the cinema, debate with him or contact a chimpanzee tribe.

Why do you think beings that have evolved separately to us would deem us interesting? They're probably not even based on the same DNA we are.

>>5740359
we are too unintelligent and aliens would eat us just like we eat cows if they wanted to

>>5740546
>>5740532
Well, just think how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of them are even stupider than that.

>>5740602

>>5740602

except that there aren't 4 macro spatial dimensions

>>5740601

How? Social intelligence just implies a basic understanding of human and group psychology, which clearly are sciences-

>>5740664
>what is time

>>5740723

spacetime =/= 4 spatial dimensions, if that's what you're implying

it's always called spacetime or (3+1) because there's 3 spatial dimensions and one time dimension that is spatial-like

>>5740607

I use the term Dyson S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E all the fucking time, and yet you retards never pay attention. There's no reason to assume that there's a pack of undetectable blackbodies out there, and that those anyway are the only form of S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E-S. There are many topologies for those, not all of which are blackbodies.

You people here on /sci/ have aliens and scifi on the brain. You can't THINK. You can't REASON. Aliens are your RELIGION.

>>5740396
This.

>>5740762

well, there was a UK group that searched for dyson structures, but if a civilization could construct one, there'd be a good chance that it was sufficiently close to blackbody as to be undetectable

>>5740590

Clearly you don't even understand you own society. You commonly consider your own leaders to be fairly bright, but they are sociopaths to the last man. In Violent Simian society, intelligence just selects for viciousness. And that's why nothing really gets done for this space expansion nonsense. Your intelligent, vicious leaders only end up choosing GENOCIDE as the leading option.

>>5740737
if there are positive dimensions then what are anti-dimensions or negative dimensions?
what is the 0th dimension?

The problem with Dyson sphere is that it postulates that advanced aliens wouldn't be able to draw vacuum energy or some other exotic form of energy we don't even know about in this day of age.

>>5740766

You aren't listening, AGAIN. There are many forms of Dyson STRUCTURES. Not just the single and classical model of a spherical blackbody. Incremental construction of HABITATS would automatically mean the formation of a Dyson CLOUD. This isn't a blackbody, you fucking RETARD.

The truth is as I've said: The billions of easily visible stars in our own galaxy should be showing signs of Dyson S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E-S. Different races would have different ideas of how to capture starlight. But nearly all of these structures would occlude the parent star in highly unusual ways. The data of all these exploitation systems would have been noted extensively by now.

But no, there's exactly ZERO signs of any such exploitations. For millions of well-catalogued stars, we have ZERO evidence of intelligent operations going on around them. Nothing visual. Nothing gravitational (wobbles, etc.). And certainly nothing otherwise in the EM range that could be called "signals".

The conclusion is unstoppable: Lifeforms just don't get off their planets much. And it probably has to do with overactive competitive instincts. It's always economic to crush a fellow's exoskeleton or skull or gasbag, just to get more stuff for yourself. Lifeforms are really DUMB.

>>5740783
>should be
All based on presumptions and conjecture. How do you even know technological advancement is the only form of advancement that this universe allows?

>>5740775

You mean you have some sort of view of science that is so stupid that it may as well be called RELIGION. You have no proof of your assertion whatsoever. Not even in the negative. And you can't explain why we don't see transitive forms of civilizations... LIKE OUR OWN.

This idea that all the aliens out there zipping through intragalactic space are doing so totally undetectably, and that their civilization centers are also totally undetectable, is a NERD RELIGION to make you Cheetos-eaters feel better. FUCK YOUR FEELS.

>>5740783
>ou aren't listening, AGAIN. There are many forms of Dyson STRUCTURES. Not just the single and classical model of a spherical blackbody. Incremental construction of HABITATS would automatically mean the formation of a Dyson CLOUD. This isn't a blackbody, you fucking RETARD.

based on what? your intution?

the fact is, there was a sweeping search for dyson structures of the type you're talking about and none were found

either
1. there aren't any civilazations using dyson structures where we looked

2. there are, and they're sufficiently advanced so that it's blackbody

3. there are no dyson structures

i listened to what you said, you're just mad and lack reading comprehension, apparently

>>5740792
>You mean you have some sort of view of science that is so stupid that it may as well be called RELIGION.
What? Seriously I can't even imagine how you reached that conclusion.

>You have no proof of your assertion whatsoever. Not even in the negative.
And you do?

>And you can't explain why we don't see transitive forms of civilizations... LIKE OUR OWN
I can't, but hey the universe is way bigger than anything you can possibly imagine. Additionally, there's the time component. The probability that two entirely different species would ever meet in this universe is close to zero in my assumption.

>This idea that all the aliens out there zipping through intragalactic space are doing so totally undetectably, and that their civilization centers are also totally undetectable, is a NERD RELIGION to make you Cheetos-eaters feel better
Please read this sentence several times because it reflects your ignorant arrogance perfectly.

>>5740789

Because of statistics. We see ZERO civilizational development going on, regardless of where we look in our galaxy. There's no reason to conclude that there's a monopath of civilizational expansion; different species can easily have different mating rituals, different means of allocating resource bases, different lifespans, different resistance to extremes of temperature, etc. BUT, the ease of exploitation of home stars is a well grounded reason for corralling methods of expansion; IT'S ENERGY.

>>5740802
You're just modelling the alleged alien race after humans. Do you really think this is a smart thing to do?

Aliens have this system off-limits because our species is so stupid and destructive we could only demoralize any visitors.

You take DMT, you meet aliens. It's that simple folks.

I can't help but think that even if there were aliens out there, the chance of encountering them would be incredibly small and both our and their fleeting presence in the universe is comparable to 2 men at random points in history, at a random position being given 1 pen each and drawing lines on a white sheet the same area as that of the surface of the earth (probably larger).

There is a miniscule chance their lines may meet, but its also quite likely the other has already passed away by the time the paths cross.

>>5740797

Then you're pretty much proving my point. Successful stellar travellers are so rare that they may as well not even exist. So there are REASONS why expansion into space is so inhibited. THAT'S MY POINT.

>>5740811

I STRESSED there would be differences. But what's NOT different is the need for energy that drives civilization.

Why do colleges and universities bother to train people to understand ENERGY, when it's readily apparent that most people so trained just can't even grasp it? The Western collective mind has been SOAKED in petroleum, so they came to believe that anything was possible.

>>5740794

That's exactly it: NONE WERE FOUND. No Dyson Structures of any sort. Occam's Razor immediately tells us that if you don't find something, then the best answer is that IT'S NOT THERE.

Drake's Equation

Assume life began on all planets at the same time. So, this means that the universe was in a state that allowed all life to begin at the exact same moment. So, the advancement of our race is equal to the advancement of all other races.

Why are you looking for aliens? You're the alien. Who says aliens are really aliens at all? Maybe they're just our neighbors!

>>5740871

again, occam's razor only applies to things that are already intuitive

>>5740871

also, the search for dyson structures didn't include the blackbody type, so it's not so much that none were found, but rather we didn't look for them

>>5740855
Or, you know, we could both be wrong and they could be all over the place. Or, they could have been all over the place billions of years ago or billions of years into the future. Why are we even discussing this.

>>5740762
I know you said structures, but as I said, any structure that doesn't capture 100% of the energy is inefficient, so who is to say that dyson structures are just never attempted unless they're perfect blackbodies?

Additionally, we're finding new earthlike worlds all the time. We used to think they were much rarer.There could be numerous dyson *structures* out there for use to detect that we just haven't found yet.

>>5740359
>The universe should be filled with a great number of alien civilizations that all "evolved" on one of the many planets.

Implying that's not the case.

>>5740768

What are you talking about? Did you quote the wrong post? I never said anything about our society's leaders, not a single world, this is all your projection and somehow you even manage to bring genocide in there when all I said was that the person I replied to was pretty delusional.

Space is bretty big.

>>5740359
Oh great, this shit again.

>>5740444
Take your religious shit to >>>/x/
>makes fun of anti-intellect
>is a religionfag
Oh, so how's it going studying about something that doesn't exist? Found any unicorns yet?

>>5740468
Take your Dyson shit to >>>/x/ they like sci-fi over there

>>5740762
Yeah, and take this to fucking >>>/x/ already.

Unless, you know, you've found one...

>>5740359
>Prime Directive
Checkmate OP

Man the Dyson fuckers are just as bad as the god fuckers. Both believe in shit that isn't there.

Okay, so we don't find Dyson legos. Doesn't mean shit. Aliens could be e-coli right now for all we know, and they'd be aliens. Big deal.

>>5741128

I'm not denying the existence of alien E.coli. I was clearly denying the existence of civilizations that have expanded off their home worlds. Expansion off of your home world automatically means you'll start exploiting the light of your home star. That inevitably leads to a Dyson Structure. You are CAPTURING sunlight, from the only fusion reactor in the universe that actually works: A STAR.

The 100% absence of Dyson Structures from our stellar surveys is essential proof that civilizations rarely if ever expand off their home worlds. PERIOD. It's physics. A civilization needs more and more energy to run itself, and once off the home world, you're inevitably going to trap the energy of your home star. INEVITABLY.

Sagan and the rest must have suspected this was the truth, but like most Westerners, they couldn't bring themselves to admit it to Humanity. It's quite simply the most devastating sort of news.

>>5741171
>implying the extent of what we can see is a significant portion of the entire universe

NO. It doesn't work that way. Just because you can't see a miniscule object in a multitude of universes doesn't mean they do or don't exist, and it doesn't even mean that any advanced civilization would have to have one. Just because we think it makes sense doesn't mean it does. If we're looking for something that no other intelligent species will ever develop, then yeah, we'll never find that thing.

>>5741171
>further implying that all aliens will think just like us and do things just like we think they ought to

Again, no. we don't even know if creatures must be based on DNA, or even Carbon. Deal with it.