/sci/ - Science & Math

Hippies.
Hippies.

>Where did the notion that GMOs cause cancer originate?
Go ask /pol/ they seem to be experts on claiming that GMO's cause cancer. And that 9/11 was an inside job, that jews pay hundreds of people to spread 'disinfo' on their board, and that god is provably real.

I hope this helps.

>>5712001
Uninformed people.

Mazon if that's you I swear I'm coming to bulgeria.

Wasn't there a fairly recent study which showed that rats who had been eating GMO's had a higher likelyhood of developing cancer than those who didn't?
I'm sure the claim that it could cause cancer was there long before that though.

>>5712026
It was a disgusting disgrace of a 'study' that the editors themselves were ashamed of publishing. You can read the study and find the 500 flaws in it with a high school education. Google 'maize gmo study'.

>>5712026

You're thinking of the Seralini study, which is fucking disgraceful. They didn't run any proper statistics and sample sizes were so insufficient, some of the control groups had higher tumor growth rates than GMO and Roundup groups because they used a rat strain that has a high genetic predisposition to mammary tumors as is.

>>5712036
>>5712029
This. You guys nailed that on the head. Not to mention that if you work with inbred stains of rats they'll just develop tumors regardless of treatments. I work in a lab and our rats are constantly growing tumors in weird places, like their faces and ears. Were not even changing their diets or exposing them to treatments until well after these tumors appear.

>>5712001
Genetic modification is unethical.
Whether or not it causes cancer.

Being in Canada, having a Canadian leaf on my flag, it will one day come to pass that we will have a flag with that very same maple leaf with a plastic shine to it and a Monsanto label right next to it.

>>5712072
>Genetic modification is unethical.
>Whether or not it causes cancer.

Please be a troll trying to start shit...

>>5712072
0/10

>>5712072
Tell mazon to quit sending his lackeys to /sci/ nutjob.

>>5712078
Well nobody wants to be forced into something.
Majority of corn products (Soda, cereal, drinks, chips, etc) are genetically modified; and there are non-corn products that are genetically modified. I learned that I couldn't escape it. I guess you could say that we could boycott those corn products; the reason why I protest is because we shouldn't have to boycott something that we are coerced into consuming. The market has gone too far. The fda can't turn down Monsanto, because Monsanto is supported by the federal government.

>>5712092
I know I'm going to regret responding to an obvious troll, but this is making me giggle...

>Majority of corn products ... are genetically modified, etc.
And... this is a bad thing why?

>>5712001
>Where did the notion that GMOs cause cancer originate?
That notion came from what happened to the animals during the efficacy studies.

Monsanto is purposely designing food that renders human populations completely sterile over the course of three or four generations. Sometimes it causes cancer. If you eat their poison, your grand children won't have any.

>>5712097
Where is the struggle in infinite amounts of food?
Last time I checked, a good life isn't complete without a good struggle.

I guess it's my fault for being a moralfag /pol/itician.

Before I get too far into my politics, I should just say that It's obvious to me that all animals were born to be deprived and struggle for existence; it's in human nature, and I know for fact that life is incomplete without pain.

>>5712102
/pol/ pls go

>>5712120
>People who don't believe what I believe should leave.

>>5712001
Better cancer detection and erroneously assumed causation.

>>5712102

What I don't understand is if it does this to rats so quickly why doesn't it do the same to people?

>>5712105
Nature genetically modifies itself all the damn time.

S'pose you'll be okay without medical science as well then. It's unnatural as hell.
So you're okay with promising you'll never use any antibiotics or pain killers, or medicine of any sorts? Promise me you'll have a good struggle.

In fact, throw away your fucking clothes too cause someone went and MADE those. out of OTHER THINGS that weren't there before. And don't get me started on modern materials like plastics and whatever the hell insulates your home. And the computer you're using right now.

Because all of that is "unnatural" by your half-assed definition, and it most certainly does take away from that "struggle" you're so in love with.

So get naked and fuck off to a hole in the ground in some woods or something.

Fear of GMOs smacks of the same shit my idiot coworker spouts about how "synthetic caffeine" is somehow different from caffeine from coffee.

>>5712010

fucking pol man

>>5712139
I don't hate genetic modification because it's unnatural; I don't like it because of the consequences of genetic modification. Cross pollination of commercial-noncommercial fields; that's a good argument. And what about the fact that all humans and animals share the same planet and breathe the same air; a small group of people can't decide shit like this. If they want to make a plant that can only grow in laboratories and then sell it to people, then I'm fine with that; or hey, maybe they are going to grow it on mars; I don't care; but what I do care about is this Earth. I don't think humans have a moral right to tamper with the greenery or the animals of the Earth.

>>5712105
So when was the last time you struggled to put food on the table? Or had a starve day or two for that matter?

Putting fish genes into tomatoes is something that nature could not do in tens of millions of years.
Fact is, Monsanto and all the other GMO companies have absolutely no idea what the effect of GMOs will be on the environment.
Plants exchange genes with each other all the time. Who's to say that the fish gene they put into tomatoes won't eventually migrate to kudzu? Then expect kudzu all over North America, not just in the warm places.

By the way, one of the most successful GMOs is "Roundup Ready Soy". It is called that because it is <span class="math">resistant[/spoiler] to the herbicide called Roundup, which means that farmers can spray <span class="math">more[/spoiler] Roundup on their Roundup Ready Soybeans.
In other words, it's a GMO that allows farmers to dump more herbicide into the environment and into our food supply without hurting their bottom line. Brilliant! (If you're an agribusiness megacorporation, that is. If you're just a consumer, tough luck.)

>>5712146
That's not what you said in your other post. The one I was responding to.
You think you can spout complete idiocy one moment and then somehow legitimize it by just glossing over it and posting something else?
Fuck no.
What you said was absolutely, completely retarded. Either defend your bullshit or own up to your mistake, or shut the fuck up while the adults talk.

>>5712148
Well I lived a sheltered life, same with Buddha (Not that I believe in him). Food simply existed for me to consume. I found myself taking pleasure in any amount of pain I could face. I would go outside in my t-shirt in the middle of winter to take walks for the shock factor, because I couldn't feel pleasure from normal things. I got really sick and was hospitalized. I keep doing these dangerous life-threatening things because I want to live. I understood then that pleasure was relative to the amount of pain one felt. I moved out, got a job, and I grind every day for my income; it's not easy, but I have NO problem doing it. A guy lost a finger only a week ago. Am I afraid? Yes, but at least I live. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

>>5712164
So you're saying you haven't gone hungry then.
Ok, thanks for confirming your ludicrous hypocrisy.

>>5712157
> In natural soybeans the glyphosate in the herbicide would inhibit 5-enolpyruvyl shikimate-3-phosphate synthetase, EPSPS, which is involved in the synthesis of aromatic metabolites. This would lead to death of the soybean plants along with the weeds the herbicide was intended for.
Wrong.
>>5712149
Fish and tomato share genes. Learn your biology.
>>5712146
Your environmental viewpoint is week. Humans have 'tampered' with flora and fauna since the dawn of humanity. Every species has 'tampered' with it's environment since existence.

>>5712162
I believe in the rights of all living things. I may have said that it was "unnatural", and it would have been one of my reasons for not supporting genetic modification; but my statement from here on is that animals and plants of Earth weren't asked if they wanted to be genetically modified; I think that if you want to continue genetic modification, then whatever's modified should never be compatible with Earth, and whatever's modified should be grown in laboratories, in Antarctica or on a different planet.

And the foods should be labelled, and they should stop monopolizing all of the food industries.

>>5712169
No, but I starved myself for several weeks. There was food on my table, but I did not eat it. Now there's only food on my table when I make money to put it there, and it feels a lot better to live latter-wise than to torture myself until i felt pleasure.

>>5712171
>Your environmental viewpoint is week. Humans have 'tampered' with flora and fauna since the dawn of humanity. Every species has 'tampered' with it's environment since existence.

At a genetic level?
If people want to buy gmo food, I am perfectly fine with that; I'm not fine with the risk of genetic contamination being imposed on those of us who don't want to consume those products. I guarantee you that one day someone's going to fuck up, Monsanto or someone is going to have a little accident, and there are going to be genetically modified death sentences out on shelves. Someone's going to get sick and die, and those companies will have nothing else to do but to apologize.

>>5712178
Right. Okay, well next time you are starving due to being utterly impoverished, and you're struggling for your life to scavenge for food (either from a dumpster or from foraging in the wild) come back to me and tell me that your life is better because you're struggling to eat that day.

Saging for obvious troll.

>>5712171
Spoken like a true Monsanto shill.

>>5712197
>he actually thinks there are Monsanto shills on /sci/

>>5712192
>I'm not fine with the risk of genetic contamination being imposed on those of us who don't want to consume those products.
There is no such thing as "genetic contamination".

>I guarantee you that one day someone's going to fuck up, Monsanto or someone is going to have a little accident, and there are going to be genetically modified death sentences out on shelves.
You do realize that inserting genes into plants is a very long and arduous process, right? You can't just go OOPS I PUT THE WRONG GENE IN THIS PLANT, it's not that easy. Any gene that we put into a plant is going to have exactly the same effect in that plant that it did in the original organism.

All we have to do to not make a GMO plant that's toxic is to not put genes that make them toxic into the plant. That's pretty trivial once you understand the genetics of the genes you're using.

>>5712192
>at a genetic level
So you draw an arbitrary line in the sand where non-molecular biology is permitted.
>i'm not fine with the genetic risk imposed
And jumping from that arbitrary line, are you okay with the risk of car crashes? With plane flights? With adverse reactions from drugs? Hope you don't drive cars, or ever take medication.
And there are going to be fuck ups, yes, like there are fuck ups with nuclear meltdowns, with car crashes, with space shuttle disasters.
None of them is a precedent to justify your rhetoric.

>>5712197
Get the fuck out mazon, your shit won't run on /x/ - much less on /sci/.

Are these people also against industrialized agriculture. It's called progress, people.

>>5712197
You know, it is possible for someone to disagree with you WITHOUT them being paid to do so.

nice try disinfo agent, get the fuck out

>>5712092
Why would they let the cancer progress to that point?! What reason could there possibly be not to destroy them when it became noticeable and tested positive?

>>5712102
Mass sterilization of humans would be an extremely beneficial thing, and I hope you are right.
>>5712105
>/pol/
>moral
Here we go.
>>5712122
Virtually nothing said by /pol/ is taken seriously. You are viewed as nothing more than a more violent, hateful /x/. Besides, your beliefs lose their value when contradicted by scientific fact.
>>5712135
Bcuz itz fayk, dawg

>>5712141
My mother is suspicious of E300, despite me repeatedly telling her what it is.
>mfw

>>5712105
> life is incomplete without pain.
That is not relevant. You already have access to virtually unlimited food. GMO's are needed to feed the tens if not hundreds of millions who suffer from malnutrition because they can't afford anything but rice.

>>5712102
But that was just one species of corn being studied. Do people really think all GMOs are the same?

>>5712146
>The crabs in my neckbeard have equal rights to humans'
You know this is /sci/, right?

>>5712192
>At a genetic level?
>Wat is selective breeding

GMO's are not bad, they have amazing potential and we should study them further to benefit mankind. But its the business practice of Monsanto and the like that is the bad part of it.

>>5713840
This. Thisthisthisthisthis.
Why do we allow privately owned companies to monopolize entire breeds of organisms? That's one of the most absurd things I've ever read. There should still be incentive to GM crops without genetic patents.

>>5713840
its not monsanto, its the laws they have to operate within. people always bitch about them patenting genes and suing people if seeds blow onto their land and such, but under USA and similar countries patent laws they HAVE to do it like that. if they dont patent it, other people can go and patent it, then monsanto must pay them to make their own product, on the other hand if they do patent it but dont enforce it (just to prevent other people from patenting it) then they automatically LOSE the rights to it and other people can patent it again. Its a shit law that forces companies to sue people they dont want to just to keep their own products.

>>5713956
>>5713956
They can patent it and then choose not to sue, though.

>>5713969
>then they automatically LOSE the rights to it and other people can patent it again.

>>5713980
Seriously? What the fuck?!

>>5713998
its also the reason companies HAVE to tell youtube to remove shows they own, even if they dont care/think its good advertisement.

>>5714014
>>5714014
Well, now I'm just questioning my whole perception of reality! Cats are dogs, red is blue, mayonnaise is food for humans!

>>5713980
[citation needed]

>>5712105
guize life isn't worth living without bad things!!!1

>>5713892

>Why do we allow privately owned companies to monopolize entire breeds of organisms?

Because the patents expire 20 years after original filing date. Monsantos monopoly on these things are temporary.

The agricultural world is most likely going to go through an absolutely epic revolution during the 21st century as more and more biological patents expire.

>>5714068
Sweet. All is well then.

>>5714093
The patent on RR1 GMO Soybeans is about to expire.

GMO soybeans make up 91% of the soybeans grown in the US.

Monsanto is getting ready to launch it's RR2 seed.

>>5714093
Yeah, it's awesome to have religion holding back half of society, and patents the other half. wooo.

>>5714148
Meh, twenty years isn't too long. It gives a great deal of incentive to develop GMO's, but still ensures the whole world will get to reap the benefits soon enough.
Conservative religion is a problem, though.

>>5712139
>S'pose

Regardless of their risk or any scientific validity in the criticisms of GMOs, the fact is that we do not need these to feed the world.

What the developing world needs now is investment in traditional agriculture. There s no point raising the genetic ceiling of crop yields etc, when most of these countries haven't even begun the first green revolution. With less money we could have a far greater effect on food production.

We'll need GMOs, but its not what we need now nor what the majority of aid should comprise of.

>>5714220
Yes, it's a political problem.

But political problems are difficult to solve and usually take several years if not decades to fix.

So shut up and eat your genetically modified semen ration.

FFS, you americunts can only complain instead trying to improve your situation. You have your guns and freedumbs, why not perform a decent, quick assault on Monsanto HQ? It's not rocket science.

I have no problem with GMOs. They get tested for impact on the environment and on us.

I sure as shit have a problem with Monsanto though. Feel free to grow your own strain of corn, but you can't possibly think it should be legal to wait till next year to sue the farmer down wind of your corn because he has your copy-written genes in his new batch of corn from his own seeds.
Sage cause my complaint isn't /sci/ related. . .

>>5714253
see>>5713956