/sci/ - Science & Math

>>5685670
imaginary numbers are just a name, they exist.

>>5685670
well in elementary algebra, the equation itself is made up and cannot exist so we have to have "imaginary" solutions to it.

But keep in mind the same conclusion cannot be made when you get into differential theory and all of Euler's work really, if you decide to go that far.

I think you are completely wrong simply because the concept of imaginary numbers is not incorporated in every part of mathematics, and even if it was our imaginary numbers are well-defined. No one every "made up" the the concept, they just gave it a name.

I will say that I still have a problem with a function having an infinite domain, being all positive, and having a finite integral from a number to infinity. That seemed logical to me. You are wrong though. /thread

> too retarded to comprehend math
> infantile cartoons
I wonder why those two always go head to head

>>5685670
>I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of imaginary numbers.

Imaginary (actually complex) numbers are just a generalization of the real numbers to include the concept of direction. Real numbers only have two directions, forward (+) and backwards (-). Complex numbers generalize this to any direction.

Being a mathemtically illiterate, verbal-only person, you are incapable of grasping such simple concepts apparently.

Complex numbers have proven invaluable in many areas including physics, the flow of heat and energy, periodical functions and electricity, and they also make many aspects of the mathematics of real numbers more regular and simpler.

>Math
>Human construct

lel

High school math too tough for you?

>>5685688
Off topic but
I dont understand how it can be logical but you still have a problem with it.

What about some function like 1/(x^2 + C), with C being any constant?
That happens to fit your criteria while always having a finite integral.

>>5685670
> Math is too hard
> I think I'll become a stripper

>>5685705
Real numbers are also complex.

>>5685708
That's the problem with today's society. People too stupid to live and living and making hundreds of dollars and passing on their stupid genes onto the next generation.

>imaginary numbers dont exist
>everytime you use alternate current you are using imaginary numbers
yolo, my mind thinks that the existance of a number means that if I cant use it to count apples it doesnt exist

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of irrational numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of math deity, then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed.

>>5685718
What's your point?

Yeah, fuck math. Nevermind that, without it, there wouldn't be an internet.

Go back to watching your insipid cartoons, you clueless manchild.

>>5685740
>manchild

He's complaining about stuff you learn in High school algebra; he's probably just a child

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of variables. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that don't exist yet, like you're some kind of math prophet, then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed.

>>5685727
So did he really kill that dude for talking about the square root of 2?

>>5685740
>being this mad over an obvious troll thread

Real Numbers a subset of Complex Numbers. That is, they just have a 0 imaginary part. You probably didn't know that though.

>>5685808
I'm not trolling, dude. Laplace transforms are fucking stupid.

If I have to make up a fake number to solve a differential equation then that equation is fucking wrong.

>>5685993
>implying that I give a shit about being algebraically closed

>>5685670
>working over fields that aren't algebraically closed

>>5685803
not him but it's just said that the cult of mathnuts took him and "never returned"

>>5685995
Not him, but obviously you don't know shit about differential equations. Are you an engineer?

>>5685670
There are no such thing as a complex number.

<span class="math">\mathbb{C}[/spoiler] is actually <span class="math">\mathbb{R}^2[/spoiler].

>>5686048
I meant imaginary number.
<span class="math">\sqrt{-1}[/spoiler] does not exist.

But <span class="math">(0, 1)\in \mathbb{R}^2[/spoiler], and it is very, very useful.

>>5686027
No, but I know how to convolve a Laplace transform straight up your ass, faggot.

>>5686065
>Laplace transform

It's Fourier

dumbshit

Typical GuP fan.

>>5686756
You don't solve differential equations with fourier transforms... it's done with laplace transforms.

>>5686056
>implying the square root of -1 being the imaginary unit doesn't follow after extending the square root function to complex numbers

>>5685670
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

>>5685689
>infantile cartoons
Look around buddy. This is 4chan.
That's like going to blizzcon dressed as your favorite dota hero and calling all the WoW players nerds.

>invent imaginary numbers to square root useless negative numbers
>still can't divide by zero

Are you math guys even trying?

The complex numbers can be constructed using 2x2 matrices of real numbers. This is part of what was used to convince people to adopt them in the first place, since early mathematicians had the same doubts.

>>5686896
I don't know what any of those things are.

I don't understand what your troubles with equivalence classes of polynomials are, OP.

>>5686829

well, it can be done with both

>>5687023
The square root yields at most, finitely many answers and can be restricted to a principal square root to yield a unique answer.

Trying to undo division by zero yields infinitely many answers.

>>5687192
multiplication by zero*

>>5685670
electrical engineering wouldn't be that fun without complex numbers, fuck you OP

Pfft. Im numers are what makes fun. You can take like two randon functions and couple them with i. PenisLength + i * Friends = NumberOfImaginaryFriends

Complex numbers are the shit.
exp(ix) is the mother-load for trig identities.

exp(i*pi)-1=0

>>5687275
>pi
>not tau

>>5687275
If you're going to quote Euler's identity at least do it right. It's +1 not -1.

I stopped caring about maths when I realized how fucking boring it is.

>>5687275
actually thinking this is true

I think U shouldnt think that much.

>>5685727
I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of irrational numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't be reasoned with, like some kind of math psychopath, then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed.

OP is such a faggot. Maths is nothing more or less than a box of tools that let you solve physical problems. Imaginary numbers were introduced because they were useful. Does anything more need to be said?

>>5685670
Yes imaginary number may not make a lot of sense at first, but they are useful. They simplify some calculations a lot.
A long time ago I thought the same thing about prime numbers. I thought that it's just an useless human construct, but I was wrong. All public key secure connections on the internet use them to keep your information hidden along the path.
It would be too much to say that they are REAL (more than just a human construct), but it certainly seems so.

>>5687358
>thought prime numbers were just made up

Is this what they teach in special ed?

>>5687325
I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of numbers. What a crock of shit. If your problem can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't be reasoned with like some kind of math, then you are fucking wrong and math is too hard.

Big T trolling these nerds into the stratosphere

Anyways, >>5685670, please listen to me. That it's really related to this thread.
I went to Yoshinoya a while ago; you know, Yoshinoya?
Well anyways there was an insane number of people there, and I couldn't get in.
Then, I looked at the banner hanging from the ceiling, and it had "150 yen off" written on it.
Oh, the stupidity. Those idiots.
You, don't come to Yoshinoya just because it's 150 yen off, fool.
It's only 150 yen, 1-5-0 YEN for crying out loud.
There're even entire families here. Family of 4, all out for some Yoshinoya, huh? How fucking nice.
"Alright, daddy's gonna order the extra-large." God I can't bear to watch.
You people, I'll give you 150 yen if you get out of those seats.
Yosinoya should be a bloody place.
That tense atmosphere, where two guys on opposite sides of the U-shaped table can start a fight at any time, the stab-or-be-stabbed
mentality, that's what's great about this place.
Women and children should screw off and stay home.
Anyways, I was about to start eating, and then the bastard beside me goes "extra-large, with extra sauce."
Who in the world orders extra sauce nowadays, you moron?
I want to ask him, "do you REALLY want to eat it with extra sauce?"
I want to interrogate him. I want to interrogate him for roughly an hour.
Are you sure you don't just want to try saying "extra sauce"?
Coming from a Yoshinoya veteran such as myself, the latest trend among us vets is this, extra green onion.
That's right, extra green onion. This is the vet's way of eating.
Extra green onion means more green onion than sauce. But on the other hand the price is a tad higher. This is the key.
And then, it's delicious. This is unbeatable.
However, if you order this then there is danger that you'll be marked by the employees from next time on; it's a double-edged sword.
I can't recommend it to amateurs.
What this all really means, though, is that you, >>5685670, should just stick with today's special.

>>5685803
>So did he really kill that dude for talking about the square root of 2?
There is only weak anecdotal evidence. The discoverer of sqrt(2)'s irrationality was likely killed for a completely unrelated reason.
The history of math is riddled with blatant lies, falsehood and claims without any basis.
There is also no reason to believe that Gauss derived how to sum arithmetic progression as a child. Or that there is no Nobel prize for mathematics, because his wife cheated on him with a mathematician. Or that the Pytagoreans killed people for constructing Dodecahedrons. Or basically any anecdote you were told by your math teacher.

>>5687397

>>5687501

FACT

Complex numbers don't exist and are unnecessary.

EVERY SINGLE bit of maths involving imaginary numbers can instead be done using power series and trigonometric functions.

Step down, bitch

>responding to obvious troll thread

>>5687504

>>5687511

>>5687531

>>5685689
ITT: anime fag cannot into math

(sadly I see this on a daily basis at my uni.)

>all this bashing on the animefags
Pretty understandable.

>mfw most of the math and comp sci tutors at my uni have decent powerlevels
>mfw I'm one of them
>mfw I frequent /a/ too much for my own good despite doing 3 majors
>mfw I have no face
Sometimes I really like you, /sci/, it's a shame that it isn't that frequent.

Nice thread, OP.

>>5687826
> going to /a/

>>5687831
Anime and Manga is my hobby plus it's really the only board that I go to almost every day. There's a lot of shit, but that isn't something uncommon here.

>>5685670
How can you not like this?
exp(ix) = cos(x) +isin(x)

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of imaginary numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed

>>5687826
>actually watching infantile cartoons

Holy shit, are you serious? That's pretty sad, man.

>>5687367
Prime numbers are just a convention. In ancient times some people had autistic fun finding these numbers. That's the only reason they exist. No applications whatsoever.

>>5687826
What level of math or comp sci are you tutoring?

>>5687882
Are you using the word infantile implying that the majority of humans watching anime are children?

>>5686024
But... but... p-adic numbers! Rational numbers! Arithmetic geometry! What's wrong with non-algebraically-closed fields? ;___;

>>5687882
I'm a day late, but it's relaxing when I turn my brain off and enjoy the ride. Besides, old habits die hard, I've been watching this shit since forever.

>>5689531
Everything from basic Math to, Calculus I,II, and III, Differential Equations(ODE), and Linear Algebra. Most of the people are from basic to Calculus I, it's rare getting the others since there aren't many physicists or engineers in my uni. I haven't tutored any comp sci, maybe I'll go for it next semester for a change of pace.

>>5689743
Shit, I shouldn't have bumped this thread.

>>5685717
>hundreds of dollars
confirmed for the high school dropout that makes me food for $8 an hour

>>5685670
>I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of negative numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exis...

>I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of irrational numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exis...

>I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of rational numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exis...

>I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of zero. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exis...

lol

you want freedom from the normal rehtoric of math?
g2 literature, where the sky is blue because the author wants to meet his aborted siblings

I cant wait till science finally abandons this dead-end physicalist (if it isn't a material thing then it isn't real/objective!) bullshit.

Come on, pure mathematics and philosophy is already there. Theoretical physics is nearing as well.

>>5689869
it's those goddamn neuroscientists

fucking marvin minsky

>>5689869
You clearly don't understand how science works. If something cannot be observed or tested, it cannot be subject of science.

>>5689877
go back to /x/ you fucking nutcase

take your "science" with you

>>5689877
Many things can be observed and tested, but aren't objective.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of numbers. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing labels that don't have anything to do with algebra, like some kind of math deity, then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of real numbers. What a crock of shit. If your problem can only be solved by inventing numbers that you can't give any examples of, unless you're some kind of math deity, then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of axioms. What a crock of shit. If your theorem can only be proved by deferring to the unquestionable truth of unintelligible first-order logic gobbledygook, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the proof is flawed.

Math is logical and axioms never lie my ass. ZFC is just as flawed as any other human construct.

>>5685670

Guise, obvious troll is obvious.

>>5687509

This. This. This. Stop wasting time on troll thread.

>>5687505

No. Do you even math?

<span class="math">\mathbb{C} \cong \mathbb{R} [X] / (X^2 + 1)[/spoiler]

The only numbers that exist are the computable numbers. The rest is made up shit.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of 0.999.. = 1 . What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed.

>>5691175

I'm going to use your implicit definition of numbers.

Numbers don't exist.
Only the representation of numbers exists.

>>5685689
>on anime site
>complain about infantile cartoons
I think you're the one who's autistic.

>>5691198
> implicit definition of numbers.

What's that?

>>5691212
> anime site
why don't you do some science and give me the ratio of anime boards to non-anime boards

>>5691820
>muh 2channel derivative

>>5691841
What's a derivative? I never learned higher math.

>>5685670
Imaginary numbers were created in order to solve equation that couldn't be solved otherwise by providing a real number as an answer.
Imaginary numbers are a tool and it fucking works, if you are too stubborn to understand how, well too fucking bad, but it still does.

>>5687505
FACT

Real numbers don't exist and are unnecessary.

EVERY SINGLE bit of maths involving real numbers can instead be done using sets and/or sequences of rationals.

Step down, bitch

>>5685670
I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of zero. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed. Same for algebra solutions that basically say "the correct answer is whatever the correct answer is". Thats what the math said transcribed to words but god forbid if i wrote in down in english instead of the ancient math runes the teacher word mark me wrong.

Math is logical and numbers never lie my ass. Math is just as flawed as any other human construct.

>>5691905
> people still think zero exists
> can't even divide by it

>>5691853

Surely one could just /define/ real numbers to be certain sequences or sets of rationals ...

>>5691905

negative numbers don't exist either, you should have quit a long time ago OP, that's why I think you're a troll

>>5689877
>electrons
>observable
>implying modern physics isn't science

Scientific anti-realist detected.

>>5691913
>not recognizing satire
>thinking you're responding to the OP
>being this new

This is why I stopped coming to /sci/.

>>5691921

can't tell what ironic shitposting is

doesn't call me out for doing it

never change 4chan

>>5691923
>I was only pretending to be retarded!

>>5691917
Electrons have observable effects. Go back to high school, idiot.

>>5691943
You can see the "effects" of the electron, but you never observe the electron itself. There are an infinite number of empirically equivalent theories that can account for those effects.

E.g., invisible gremlins could be responsible for all the things we claim electrons to do.

Of course, that's ridiculous, and we select between competing theories based on other values (simplicity, explanatory power, non ad-hoc -ness, etc.). But that doesn't make electrons any less unobservable.

I stopped caring about meth when I was introduced to the concept of imaginary trips. What a crock of shit. If your dreamtrip can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of meth deity , then you are fucking wrong and the meth is flawed

>>5691909
It's a moot point because rationals don't exist; only pairs of integers do.

>>5692003
> implying integers aren't just pairs of naturals

>>5692008
There are no naturals, only sets. Which contain sets which contain sets.

{}, {{}}, {{},{{}}}, {{},{{}},{{},{{}}}}, ...

Everything is sets. (Unless they're proper classes, but those don't really exist.) They obey the ZFC set axioms given to us by the set deity who reigns over the Platonic realm of sets.

In b4 hippie category/type theorists. Heretics aren't allowed into Cantor's paradise.

>>5692031
>there are no naturals
>{}, {{}}, {{},{{}}}, {{},{{}},{{},{{}}}}, ...
pick one

>implying category theory and set theory are mutually exclusive

so much meme arrows to choose from, so few time.

>>5692031
Do you even 0?

The thing entirely makes them and is ({beyond*}) entirely being their bitch, makes Cantor suck harry overthought system nuts while missing a critical axiom

Type/Category Theory are compliant in saying that a whole system is a 0

>>5692043
Is that a homotopy type theory thing?

>>5692062
My 1 is your 0.0!01 bro

>>5692031
Sets are just a constrained circumstance of categories.

>>5692031
No, God created the naturals. All else is the work of man.

>infinite sets
>ishygddt

>>5692097
>2012+1
>not doing balance
>

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of induction. What a crock of shit. If your theorem can only be proved by invoking your own theorem, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed. Same for recursive definitions that basically say "the correct answer is a function of the correct answer". Thats what the math said transcribed to words but god forbid if i wrote in down in english instead of the ancient math runes the teacher word mark me wrong.

Math is logical and numbers never lie my ass. Arithmetic is just as flawed as any other human construct.

>>5692112
> x = 6+5x4

B-B-B-But our elementary school doesnt show it like that, how does it equal it before it's made QQQQQ

>>5685727
Wildberger pls go

>your doublro

Even though OP might be a troll, he raises a valid point. Complex numbers are merely a convention. We could do all of math without complex numbers.

Not accepting complex numbers is just like not accepting:
a) irrational numbers which were "invented" as the solutions of equations such as:
x^2 - 2 = 0
b) rational numbers which were "invented" as the solutions of equations such as:
2x - 1 = 0
c) negative integers which were "invented" as the solutions of equations such as:
x + 1 = 0.

So applying your point of view you should "accept" only naturals.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of finite fields. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed. Same for free algebras that basically say "the correct answer is whatever the correct answer is". Thats what the math said transcribed to words but god forbid if i wrote in down in english instead of the ancient math runes the teacher word mark me wrong.

Math is logical and numbers never lie my ass. Math is just as flawed as any other human construct.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to the concept of quotients. What a crock of shit. If your equation can only be solved by inventing numbers that can't exist, like some kind of math deity , then you are fucking wrong and the math is flawed. Same for algebra solutions that basically say "the correct answer is whatever the correct answer is". Thats what the math said transcribed to words but god forbid if i wrote in down in english instead of the ancient math runes the teacher word mark me wrong.

Math is logical and numbers never lie my ass. Math is just as flawed as any other human construct.

>>5692125
>Wildber
I actually asked the dude and he was fine with them. And that makes sense, since his problem is with non-computablity I think. And imaginary numbers are many times perfectly computable.

>>5692091
Who said this quote?

>>5692097
Infinite sets are only hypothetical. Of course they don't exist in nature.

>>5695186
>trolling and shitbumping

>>5685670
>"Oh, someone posts on /sci/ that he hates math. This troll will probably get no rep-
>126 posts and 26 image replies omitted. Click here to view.

I stopped caring about math when I was introduced to meth