/sci/ - Science & Math

equally fit, because they have survived

>>5660261
because political correctness and that the differences in actual capability isn't too different.
the differences we see today isn't because of actual hardware differences but because of cultural differences

they aren't.

>it's just cultural difference

>>5660264
Agreed, human mental function is quite plastic and the development of knowledge/state of mental function in an individual is mostly dependent on the environment that the individual developed in. You don't want an human orgainism developing along a certain path, a more efficient development of the brain to preforms functions would be to respond to your environment.

>>5660277
>implying cultures without interest in going to the moon can't live happier, more fulfilling, planet undestroying styles of life with huts

>>5660295
>yet in the Middle Ages they were the world leaders in science and culture.

It's all in the upbringing.
You probably think Muslims are subhuman too, yet in the Middle Ages they were the world leaders in science and culture.
And, everyone who rejects the Western ideal of overproduction, resource depletion and the neverending growth, isn't necessarily wrong in the long run.

>>5660261
Because claiming otherwise would be impolite.

>>5660265
humans and bacteria are equaly intelligent because both have survived?

If you ever walked through a black neighborhood, you would understand that we are not equal mentally

>>5660320
Yes.
I'll gladly do it every single day than go outside in my town once at night.

>>5660316

Have you ever walked through a trailer park in Arkansas?

>humans and bacteria

humans and humans

>>5660320
I would feel 100% safe while walking through a trailer park in Arkansas at night.

>>5660261
i think it has more to do with one's environment, influences, and stimuli than we realize.

i believe that all races have equal mental capacity, but not all individuals within that race, of course

>>5660320
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
>no Arkansas city even on the list
yeah, sure, why not.

>>5660316
as a black person raised in a black family who used to wear FUBU and Phat Farm, i must say you need to get out more.

maybe if you weren't such an obvious shut in you'd be exposed to the elasticity of a human being and wouldn't be so bigoted

The biological basis behind behaviour and intelligence will be elucidated in the next decade or so. This will partly explain why different races act differently. Culture does of course play a part, and there is large overlap between the races, but when the scientists have some more definite markers to point at on the biological side of things, those who claim that it is all culture will finally have to shut up.
It'll be the Chinese who get the information first, though. No big team in the West would get the required funding for a project that might have un-PC outcome.

>>5660261
what do we call race?

skin color rigth?

but skin color is just one phenotype, is like putting the people who are 6 feet tall in a single race, or natural bald people on another race.

>>5660334
ooga booga where da wite wimminz at

> why is it that it is claimed all races are mentally
It isn't claimed.

We have insufficient evidence to speak with authority either way on this issue.

>>5660337

>my fantasies about what will happen in the not too distant future are science

I'm sure the Chinese will find that they are genetically superior.

>>5660339
we white now

>>5660343
hwww.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1093674/The-tragic-story-white-girl-born-black-tore-family-apart.html

>>5660337
based asian xenophobes and their lack of political correctness

>If we have evolved differently and manages to get different physical features why is it that it is claimed all races are mentally equal?
Flawed premise. Humans are quite astonishingly homogenous on a genetic level.

>>5660316
It's mostly due to a disgusting popular culture shared by blacks and latinos in urban environments that promotes aggression, discourages higher education, believes in the illusion that minimal work can lead to wealth, ignores personal responsibility, and shifts blame for their condition onto others. I don't see these racial groups as any less capable of success, but I do see them as unproductive blights on society. There's a social problem based in poverty, that can be further broken down into a racial problem that no one wants to talk about.

The religion of political correctness has given rise to secular creationism.

>>5660338
see
>>5660329
>>5660295
>>5660279

if you begin at a disadvantage,(there was never a point in US history when african americans were not at a disadvantage) then that disadvantage perpetuates within itself as those who were raised shitty raise their children shitty.

thats why ignorance exists in clumps; ghettos, "black neighborhoods", trailer parks, near the mexican border, etc.

i can't believe were actually talking race here

>>5660357

Racists have to race.

There's remains of humans outside of Africa 40-50,000+ years ago.
You can't tell me we didn't change mentally at least a tiny fucking bit over 50,000 years.

>>5660342
Meh, they're studying the genes behind intelligence now at the largest genetic research lab in the world, and they are using a sample set of basically all East Asians and European academics.

>>5660362
>You can't tell me we didn't change mentally at least a tiny fucking bit over 50,000 years.
50,000 years is a trivial timespan in evolutionary terms.

>>5660279
>mental function in an individual is mostly dependent on the environment that the individual developed in
IQ is 75% heritable at age 17, this figure increases into adulthood.

>>5660366
Didn't we diverge only 160,000 years ago or something?

>>5660357
http://www.amren.com/opinion/2012/07/those-unmentionable-asians

>>5660366
yeah, but evolution has nothing to do with cognitive learning in this case

we shouldn't have to evolve to another level to see the obvious flaw in that claim

>>5660330
Birmingham, Alabama. Over 73% black. Has the 10th highest crime rate in the country, 2nd highest obesity rate, 1st in diabetes rate.

>>5660357
Just keep blaming white people about how disadvantaged you negros are in the year of our Lord, 2013. It sure will help you succeed sometime in the next 500 years

Redpill

>define race
>define intelligence
But I only ask: If we whites have evolved differently from the lactose intolerant, why is that it is claimed all races are mentally equal.
Enjoy your water subhumans

>>5660386
I fucking love milk.

>>5660373
Anatomically modern humans arose 200,000 years ago. The human and chimpanzee lineages diverged 4-8 million years ago. The earliest stone tool users were 2.3 million years ago. The spread of Homo Erectus throughout Eurasia occurred 500,000 years ago.

>>5660373
There was also a cataclysmic event that reduced the human population nearly to extinction, and significantly reduced our genetic diversity.

>>5660389
So what you're saying is, Africans and Asians separated 500,000 years ago?

>>5660386
>getting attacked by blacks and mexicans in a ghetto
>hurl milk at them
>they melt

>implying asians and europeans didn't evolve from Italian swamp monkeys

go on, try to prove me wrong. We can't prove either right at this point.

>>5660357
So you're saying that it is a racial problem then?

>>5660392
No. Homo Erectus spawned several daughter species throughout Eurasia, but humans all evolved from common precursors in Africa.

>>5660397
Some Chinese in school are even taught that the Chinese evolved in China, and have nothing to do with African. Wrong obviously, but good luck changing that opinion. It's scary to consider a superpower that doesn't believe it's related to the rest of the world.

>>5660400
no, just a social problem

i think that if we took 10 infantile specimens of each race and raised them all together in a school, being careful to make sure that they don't naturally group themselves into their corresponding races, they would all have very similar results

>>5660409
They just dont want to accept that their ancestors evolved from negroid apes a hundred thousand years ago. I dont see anything wrong with that

>>5660415
You'd be wrong.
But if it makes you feel better about the world, go on believing that.
I could give you plenty of links to information disproving your extremely naive hypothesis, but you don't seem to want to read it and wouldn't be better off for knowing it, if you wanted to get redpilled you'd be on /pol/ but your beliefs are based on naivete and wishful thinking rather than evidence.

>>5660429
>You'd be wrong.
That guy is only wrong by a very narrow, biased reading of the scientific literature.

Notice how it's never the people who actually know what they're talking about who agree with you.

>>5660357
I was going to write the same thing, I wish /sci/ could end these shitty /pol/-worthy discussions.

>>5660429
>You'd be wrong.
show me.
>But if it makes you feel better about the world, go on believing that.
i don't base my beliefs on feeling and not once did i indicate any sort of emotion on the matter
>I could give you plenty of links to information...
please do
>...disproving your extremely naive hypothesis
extremely naive? the city i live in is used as a testing grounds by corporations who want to see how their new ideas fare on a small scale due to our extremely diverse demographic. i have seen every shade of human being.
>but you don't seem to want to read it...
or maybe you're just hoping i don't
>...and wouldn't be better off for knowing it
is this even /sci/ anymore?
> if you wanted to get redpilled you'd be on /pol/ but your beliefs are based on naivete and wishful thinking rather than evidence.

pull your head out of your ass and post.

>>5660445
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study
I'm starting you off with that, if you approach it with an open mind I'll give you some more, if you reject it and treat it like a debate where you're arguing against me I'm not going to waste my time.

>>5660456
>mfw people always fall back on the MTAS
Even the authors of that study themselves have stated that interpretation of the data is difficult due to many confounding factors and that they were in error in not being more agnostic in the original paper.

The only real use of the MTAS is in showcasing the bias of the person citing it.

>>5660456
Waldman, Weinberg, and Scarr (1994) responded to Levin (1994) and Lynn (1994).[7] They noted that the data taken of adoption placement effects can explain the observed differences; but that they cannot make that claim firmly because the pre-adoption factors confounded racial ancestry, preventing an unambiguous interpretation of the results. They also note that Asian data fit that hypothesis while being omitted by both Levin and Lynn. They argued that,"contrary to Levin's and Lynn's assertions, results from the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study provide little or no conclusive evidence for genetic influences underlying racial differences in intelligence and achievement," and note that "We think that it is exceedingly implausible that these differences are either entirely genetically based or entirely environmentally based. The true causes of racial-group differences in IQ, or in any other characteristic, are likely to be too complex to be captured by locating them on a single hereditarianism-environmentalism dimension."

>>5660464
But wouldn't the IQs of the blacks have at least changed a little?

>>5660474
how*

>>5660471
who do you feel being an white subhuman compared to asian masterrace??

>>5660464
Lol. Okay buddy, have fun with your beliefs. Do you at least see why I'm not wasting any time on you or do you really, honestly believe you have a completely open mind and I'm being unreasonable by not getting in a flamewar here?
I mean, you aren't even going to read my link you're just going to insult me, and you're still pretending you're open-minded and unbiased and will be swayed by evidence?

>>5660476
I have an IQ of 143.

>>5660479

i'm not >>5660464

i'm >>5660472

you were talking to me, not him

>>5660479
I'm not that other guy. I just popped into the thread.

>>5660472
>read an article about a study
>decide everything in the article itself is completely false, the evidence in the study says and means nothing and the criticism of the article must be totally valid (except for the part where the people offering criticism don't believe IQ to be entirely environmentally based, obviously he just became a hateful bigot when he said that)
>still think you have an open mind
lel

>>5660490
>>5660479
Not him but why are you ignoring that fact the fact that the people who conducted the test themselves said its not conclusive?

You're the ones who are irrefutably believing something just because it aligns with your belief.

>you're closed minded if you don't agree with me!!!!!
>you're only open minded if you come to the same conclusion as me!!!!!
none of you understand what it means to be "open-minded"

>>5660415
I think you misunderstood me, but a lot of that's my fault. I agree with you on your point about raising children, but when I say it's a racial problem I'm referring to the fact that high crime and incarceration rates, high abortion rates, low graduation rates...etc are more common among blacks and latinos by a large measure. Not because of race itself, but you do see those trends in these particular races. Most of the problems stem from poverty, but why are so many blacks and latinos poor in the first place? Racism can only go so far, and I think it boils down to a social issue that is primarily due to a detrimental popular culture shared by these groups in urban settings.

>>5660482
> iq of 143

Implying thats true, you are proving my point, the skin color has nothing to do with iq.

and implying iq is that important.

>>5660474
Feels fine, I'm much smarter than the vast majority of Asians as well as whites and personal worth has nothing to do with what group you happen to belong to. And my experience with white people has shown them to be for the most part complete dumbfucks while Asians tend to be less fucking retarded, much like how my experience with black people has shown them to be for the most part mildly retarded and significantly dumber than even most lower-class whites.

>>5660499
>anecdotal evidence on a science board

lel.

>>5660496
Created by poverty
Created by slavery.

>>5660429
Even twin studies show nothing. You can never remove the environmental factor in an ethical experiment.

>>5660502
That's just blaming the white man, and shifting personal responsibility. Black people will always be in a bad condition if they continue to do this.

>>5660507
Yes but to ignore the fact that it caused a problem is retarded.

Yes they should try to move on but shit isnt easy and it will take time.

>/pol/ pretending there aren't black people smarter than them

>>5660507
>Black people will always be in a bad condition if they continue to do this.
Yeah, they should unliterally decide that white people shouldn't be racist!

That's BOUND to work!

>>5660490
don't tell me what i'm thinking.
don't act like you know what's going on.
this is a two way discussion, and every time you act like you're interpreting or reiterating my actions, you come out obnoxiously wrong.
just stop.

yes, i read the whole article and acknowledge its data, thank you for asking.
but i also have to acknowledge the racial tension and segregation still prevalent in the pre-2000's i have to acknowledge the 5 or 6 disagreements and criticisms, and i have to acknowledge the italicized disclaimer stating the high level of diversity and inconsistencies within the test group

but this discussion has comet to an end.
not because neither of us are going to change each other's opinion,
not because of my lack of interest in the topic
i'm not even admitting defeat

you are just damn annoying

>>5660507
well how much time has the african american race had to recuperate after extreme racial tensions? if MLK jr wasn't assassinated he'd still be alive today. there was never a point in american history until like fucking yesterday when black people weren't at a disadvantage

>>5660527
Martin Luther King would be 84 well beyond the average lifespan for a black man born in 1929

>>5660534
my black grandpa is 81 and still doing fine

but that's beside the point, which was it wasn't very long ago by any means

>>5660494
>Not him but why are you ignoring that fact the fact that the people who conducted the test themselves said its not conclusive?
Because it doesn't affect the results of the study. It's absolutely unacceptable in academia today to come up with an official opinion that race and intelligence are linked, obviously one study is by far insufficient evidence to scientifically prove a major difference. To come out with that conclusion based on one study as a scientist would open one up to an enormous degree of criticism, including a large amount of personal attacks, and could quite likely end one's career.

Regardless, I'm done trying to discuss this as you're obviously not willing to listen. You've decided your own belief, based in ignorance, a public school education and naively optimistic liberal beliefs, is right, and you're defending it and arguing against alternate viewpoints. I am not going to be able to convince you of the truth over 4chan, you already think you're right and I'm wrong.

There are two rationally consistent viewpoints on race and intelligence. One, that intelligence is both heritable, to some degree, and environmentally influenced, to some degree, with both of these influences having a significant effect. If you accept this as being true, as the majority of evidence indicates, then to be logically consistent you must acknowledge that people of African descent have lower average intelligence almost universally across national, cultural, linguistic, educational and socioeconomic lines, that this lower average intelligence persists through attempts to counteract it and that it must be innate on some level. Alternatively, you can ignore all evidence indicating that heritability plays a role in determining intelligence and conclude that there is no genetic factor at all, that cultural and socioeconomic differences explain differences in intelligence entirely. To me, the choice between the two seems obvious.

>>5660509
How much time is it going to take? We've gone 50 years since the civil rights movement. Blacks are still drastically overrepresented in poverty and crime, dramatically underrepresented in education and a standard deviation below whites in mean IQ. When is it supposed to change?

>>5660547
well no shit, it was only 50 years.
it's literally the same fuckin people and their kids

>>5660547
>50 years


That is nothing. You think social attitudes are going to change in one generation?

>>5660547
>Implying 50 years is a lot

>>5660547
>50 years
Wow it's fucking nothing

I just want to say that I live in a small homogenous nation and that many people come here from Ghana and mostly study medicine and chemistry, don't know why they like those fields but they seem completely normal to me.
I will never understand racism.

>>5660547
if it makes you feel any better, my grandpa was part of the civil rights movement and his children are substantially better educated(my uncle just received his master's in education) and the third generation (i can only really speak for myself) is much more intelligent than the last. my test scores, mental abilities, and cognition seems substantially higher than my father's. that's 3 generations.

>inb4 anecdotal evidence

i know, just sayin

>>5660568
because in the past whites needed and excuse to not feel bad about slaving other cultures.

and because some people have no talent, and feel inferior, but they have white skin so "muh heritage" makes them feel a little bit better.

>>5660542
>If you accept this as being true, as the majority of evidence indicates, then to be logically consistent you must acknowledge that people of African descent have lower average intelligence almost universally across national, cultural, linguistic, educational and socioeconomic lines, that this lower average intelligence persists through attempts to counteract it and that it must be innate on some level.
This is an unfounded leap in logic.

The fact that a portion of intelligence is heritable is NOT evidence that the IQ gap is heritable.

>>5660542
>If you accept this as being true, as the majority of evidence indicates, then to be logically consistent you must acknowledge that people of African descent have lower average intelligence almost universally across national, cultural, linguistic, educational and socioeconomic lines, that this lower average intelligence persists through attempts to counteract it and that it must be innate on some level.

Source?

>>5660447
All these threads are is /pol/ scrambling for any legitimacy they can find for their theories, and /sci/ is half-filled with teenagers who don't know any better.

>mentally equal?

no two individuals are mentally equal

Because as soon as you identify people with different mental capabilities, the human instinct is to assume that there are some people who are inferior to each other. People then develop an excuse to say these different people are a burden to society....usually resulting in execution, persecution, discrimination, and mass extermination.

>>5660600
not to mention being affiliated with a "superior race" makes the intellectually deficient feel entitled

>>5660568
Thats because those blacks from africa pride themselves in education. The negroid apes here in america only blame white people for their problems and do nothing about it