/sci/ - Science & Math

Laughable, childish even.

Any and everything organic must one day die. This cannot be avoided, only prolonged.

If there is one thing science and mathematics has taught me, it is that death via either natural or unnatural (assuming humans actually could prevent any sort of breakdown of the body), will inevitably happen.

I will not get into details, but just to give you just one scenario from hundreds, if not thousands, let's say that we all become cyborgs in the future (highly unlikely as biologic upgrades are far superior and more acceptable in a humane sense) and that we have perfect bodies that do not die via age or disease or etc. Then one day a Super Volcano erupts....

Or a giant meteor strikes Earth.

Or an epic solar flare eradicates our electronic bodies.

Or heck, to toy with the idea even more, we live billions of years and then physics kicks in and the universe ceases to be.

I think you all get the picture.

TL; DR: You're going to die one day and then nothing you ever did in life or how long you lived no longer matters.

>>5615645
I'd be pretty ok with dying after living billions of years.

>>5615645
Get out, fag.

>>5615651
>refutes my point
>get out! fag!
>"this means i'm right again!"

You are everything that is wrong with this world. I hate you more than I have ever hated anyone.

>>5615645

Let's not forget human oriented causes of death. I do not think there is much point in immortality research right now if we are still making bombs that can essentially end our entire race in the blink of an eye.

I'm sure that if we make ways to make people live longer, we'll just make ten more ways to kill them.

Plus, it's not like any normal person could afford some sort of immortality rig anyways, it would be something only offered to the rich and/our famous.

It's pretty naive to think that you can actually escape death in the long run.

>>5615645
Perhaps I should clarify the concept of immortality then (or at least, my concept of it).

I'm not saying you can *never* die... yes there will always be something like a super volcano, or a super nova, or a gamma burst, or the big rip/heat death of the universe, or even just getting hit by a truck.

What I'm alluding to is more like life that can be extended indefinitely, for hundreds, thousands, billions of years even, through means biological or mechanically/electronically engineered or all of the above.

How do we achieve this plateau of everlasting life? Or is it a fools errand?

>>5615645
Stop feeding the fucking trolls.

>>5615649
If you're not fine with living 400% longer than your ancestors, then you won't be satisfied with living until the end of time.

>>5615633
Look, OP. We are going to die one day because entropy, but of course i would like to live as much time as possible like anybody else, but researching this is not possible. First, Earth is a tiny rock which can only handle a certain amount of population, which is reaching its peak right now. How can we give healthcare to all the useless old parasites who will be dwelling in the future? there will be no resources for the youth, the world will become more overpopulated, and even if we discover a solution to overpopulation, the world will be filled with only old people eventually.

Researching immortality will bring a lot of ethical issues, at first it will be only affordable by the few richest men on earth and more social inequalities will appear, causing some kind of revolution and social crisis in some point of the future.

I, myself would not like to research this because i am going to die without seeing the rewards of my work, i will help some other guy to achieve immortality while i sacrifice all my life in a dream that will never become real for me. I should better investigate how to give people a good death instead of making them live longer. The subject of study of medicine is health, not longevity, this means it tries to give people a nice life until they die.

>>5615667
Most evidence points to our human ancestors living well into their 70's and 80's.

AVERAGE death age was lower due to the relative greater number of children's deaths.

please review your information.

obligatory insult.

>>5615661
You're not even trying to make discussion of this, you just looked like a retard pessimist teenager there.

>HURR WER GONNA DEI OF SUMFIN EVENTULLEY

It's fucking obvious we're going to die, it is clear to me you lack reading comprehension since you try to look like an edgy faggot instead of giving a real elaborated answer to OP. You're the shit that makes /sci/ a shit board.

>>5615679

I don't believe I responded to the topic at all. Stay mad, true believer!

I believe a read an article once stating that it is only actually possible to keep extending life for about 150 years, as in that is your lifespans limit.

I cannot remember for the life of me though what it said would begin to happen to the body, even if it was youthful through science at that point.

I want to say it had something either to do with our metabolism or our brains. Then again, I guess it doesn't matter since we are decades or maybe centuries from being able to cure the countless issues that happen to our minds with time.

My best guess OP, I say we will push somewhere around the 150 age with relatively youthful bodies, but that's a really really best case scenario. Besides, they say that if we live long enough with our natural lifespans anyways we will eventually desire to pass-on regardless.

>>5615670
OP here.

Yes... I'm well aware of the ethical issues involved, as well as the societal, economic, environmental, etc. You're preaching to the choir there. Those answers aren't necessarily pertaining to my questions however.

Also, I never suggested that medicine was purely about longevity, but your assertions on the nature of medicine I find erroneous as well. The study of medicine has just as much to do with longevity as it does with quality of life in my opinion. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many medical procedures designed to extend someones life. Every doctor would be content with administering pain killers and then letting everyone die of a heart attack, stroke, etc.

>>5615690
OP here (again)

(and forgot to mention >>5615659 as well)

So what about life extending intervention via engineering? Replace portions of the brain with implants until the entire brain eventually becomes a Ship of Theseus as it were?

You may be correct in your suspicion that our biological bodies and brains have their limits. It may very well be that they cannot persist past a certain threshold without breaking down entirely. That doesn't necessarily rule out other means of immortality.

We have to become the reapers, it's the only way

>>5615706
OP here...

I giggled...

>>5615704
Hypothetically that already happens, with other cells. I think on some level we cannot consider ourselves as individuals, but perspectives with lack of knowledge. What would happen if two brains were connected slowly overtime? Are we considered the knowledge we hold? If so, then if this knowledge is replicable then there is no idividual. If your body is deconstructed and rebuilt, would it be you again? (Im talking on a atomic level)

>>5615715
You're never you. You're a bunch of cells with information, your consciousness it's a computer program that makes the trouble of finding someone to mate and staying alive until that happens easier.

It is not such a simple task nor an impossible one. Yes, it is true that our "universe" will end circa 10 trillion years... in our primitive perspective. Many say immortality has already been reached on the quantum level. We, as beings, are constantly dying and simultaneously avoiding death due to the fact that as that negative reality occurs a positive one is created and our very being is rerouted to that reality. Though every separate reality continues on, though that is a different matter. Our physical and knowing route to immortality is much closer than we know. We must fully learn how to upload minds into digital storage. The mind, however,is projected to be incredibly dense with data. our methods for data storage are bettering though. Recently we discovered that approx. 700 tb of data can be stored on a gram of DNA. So the storage may not be an issue. With up/down loading minds enabled and cloning available for only those who have the ability to up/download minds the clones can be stored by cryo and the minds downloaded to achieve biotic immortality. The mental immortality will essentially be in a highly advanced form of the internet which shall spread indefinitely and too much for me to convey now. This process will in due time enable better space travel and more successful human bound missions to mars to possibly colonize. As soon as we surpass our few billion year life span of earth, the human race will be inextinguishable. Also, in december a meteorite landed that had fossilized bacterium within it. Who is to say that that was not transmitted data from another race? We do not understand very much as of yet,but we are on the brink. technology will render dualistic though useless and the mundane issues of countries will halt once the terrain of space and time are opened.

>>5615704

The hardest thing about your questions sadly OP is that none of this are things we know for sure, mainly because we have yet to attempt (practically) something of the nature. Really all we can do is guess at this point.

>>5615715
Personally, I doubt we will ever be able to fully understand consciousness. All the research we've done up to this point only leads to more questions and more confusion.

Not saying it's a pointless science, it's just that it's hardly been rewarding thus far.

I think that the mythbuster route of immortality is most likely the closest idea conceivable to mankind at this moment, or more appropriately speaking the most recent idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QATc4cG2cF4

>>5615727
>The mental immortality will essentially be in a highly advanced form of the internet which shall spread indefinitely and too much for me to convey now

>Highly advanced form of the internet
>Wat

>>5615729
Also, the scientific method is not the best way of studying subjective phenomena like this. We will have to change the paradigm of science to study these topics easier.

Are not cells and tissues in our bodies the collective working together to understand themselves with every human action? The brain is not just electrical [which the universe runs on electricity... etc etc etc.more for later on that] it is chemical as well. You are and can be you. Cogito ergo sum.

>>5615715
OP here

As far as I'm (personally) concerned, the maintenance and continuity of one's own consciousness (whatever that may be) would be the essence the self.

I am well aware of the quandaries you pose however. Our constituent cells are constantly being replaced and regenerated. Every cell or atom that made you up some tens of years ago has already been replaced in some fashion, thus harkening the Ship of Theseus debate.

Also, related to your comment
>What would happen if two brains were connected slowly overtime?
I couldn't help but think of an article I saw the other day:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130228093823.htm

We are surprisingly close to uncovering consciousnesses secrets... But it is still heavily philosophy.

>>5615727

>>5615715
OP here

As far as I'm (personally) concerned, the maintenance and continuity of one's own consciousness (whatever that may be) would be the essence of the self.

I am well aware of the quandaries you pose however. Our constituent cells are constantly being replaced and regenerated. Every cell or atom that made you up some tens of years ago has already been replaced in some fashion, thus harkening the Ship of Theseus debate.

Also, related to your comment
>What would happen if two brains were connected slowly overtime?
I couldn't help but think of an article I saw the other day:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130228093823.htm

The higher rate and mass of intimate and intellectual collective thought and processing will ignite unfathomable progress for the human race, yes. The possibilities are endless. Morality birthed from thoughtful fear is the only boundary for the study and practice of any method honestly.

I mean by that term full, physically unhindered connection of reality, minds, and all of our human entity.

Do not attempt e-mail if you wish to speak. It is faux. Speak openly here.

Fuck off with this unscientific transhumanism futurist teenager drivel. Edgy mind-numbing bullshit goes to >>>/r/AdviceAnimals/

>>5615786
Lel, /r/equest.

The science ended when i said this shit wasn't possible because social implications.

>>5615754
Thanks for the read, i guess based on what i know (and the article information) you could consider the fact that we are indeed all one thing, life, and that as long as something lives we live (in a way). But that's hippy shit that we don't want. What we want to is to continually experience life in the same way we do now, which i guess means just passing the hayflick limit using some sort of "advanced molecular altering science" to get rid of "errors" in the genetic code from wear and tear.

>>5615795
How new are you? Your anti-intellectual asinine nonsense has nothing to do with science or mathematics. Please delete your infantile 12 year old escapism fantasy thread.

>>5615792
oh almost forgot, I thought about this solution once. I came up with the idea that we would correct the problems from wear and tear (as stated earlier) making our genetic code about equal to the prime of its life. Then we would have to dispose of all the cells that contain the old crappy genetic code, so i would say dump everything but the brain and regrow it. I think i read once that some scientist had injected some new genetic code into a cell and i successfully reproduced passing the genetic code on, which means that if someone was continually injected with new better genetic code, it would claim dominance over the old crap genetic code and replace it over time.

>>5615786
So do you have anything constructive to say? Or are you just going to continue being irrationally mad about a topic you obviously have no interest in discussing?

/sci/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy

This thread should not decay like this. Voice yourselves with thoughtful tongues! -laughs- WE can do better than this.

>>5615815
The board has no interest in discussing this "topic". If you're older than 13 and still engage in such pathetic and puerile roleplaying, you are mentally deficient. Your unintelligible tripe has nothing to do with science or math and off-topic threads are not allowed.

>>5615838
Right... I guess you'll just continue being mad then.

I would personally say that it's most likely that we come to develop complex enough androids that we can simulate minds, and that once one's biological functions cease, their mind can be simulated in an android and they can continue with their lives. Then if data from the android can be collected as to your mental state, you could achieve immortality for as long as you have wealth enough to sustain your body and for as long as your society continues to exist. As pointed out earlier, though, this wouldn't imply living infinitely long, but is probably what you mean.

>>5615846
How old are you? 12? Do you lack middle school reading comprehension? Please read the rules. Your thread violates them.

>>5615838
>2013
>talking on behalf of an entire internet community

>>5615879
Do you see the title of this board, you cognitively impaired teenager? You have to be over 18 to post here.

>>5615838
>>5615868
Wait a second, you were elected to represent "the board"? And, you make final decisions on what topics are relevant? Listen; if people are willing to post about it, and it isn't a meta-thread ("what is the most likely avenue of science through which a form of immortality, or significant life-lengthening, could occur" is actually science, you nitwit, but continue believing what you will) and it isn't cleaned up by janitors/mods then it's free to go. While >>5615846 might not be providing the most intelligent-sounding responses, your commentary is just inaccurate. Why would you post in a thread just to say that the thread is off-topic and shouldn't be here, and moreso why would you post in a lengthy thread saying that the board has no interest in the topic?
Your reasoning continues to baffle me.

I am actually very aware of methods for creating a dilated perception of time which would give the illusion of immortality. The method requires that your physical mind be redirected through a synthetic medium which has a faster processing speed than your decaying body. Within this medium you create another medium which has a processing speed faster than the previous rate of decay. By the time your original body decays you will be balls deep in a chain of synthetic realities. But the human condition is itself an illusion. Why should I fear for my human self when in actuality I am the whole of existence? Seasons don't fear the reaper, nor does the wind, sun, or rain. We can be like they are.

>>5615888
>>>/global/rules/3
>>>/global/rules/6
>>>/sci/rules/1
I am here to discuss science and mathematics. People come here to discuss science and mathematics. You are here for degenerate roleplaying.

>>5615888
It's a troll. Don't feed it.

>>5615888
>>5615894
>Listen; if people are willing to post about it, and it isn't a meta-thread ... and it isn't cleaned up by janitors/mods then it's free to go.
That's an incorrect assumption. If it violates the board rules, it isn't allowed, moron.

>"what is the most likely avenue of science through which a form of immortality, or significant life-lengthening, could occur" is actually science
It's not science at all. You have no idea what the word "science" even means.

>your commentary is just inaccurate
It's not at all.

>Why would you post in a thread just to say that the
Because you bump the real science and mathematics thread off the front page with your nonsensical transhumanism fantasies.

>>5615900
>If it violates the board rules, it isn't allowed, moron.
The rules say "All science and math related topics welcome.". While we can argue about whether this topic is science, it's clearly science RELATED. Hence, it's on-topic.

>>5615905
>While we can argue about whether this topic is science
YOUR shit isn't science. Do you have any science education at all? At least at the middle school level? Please learn what the scientific method is. "Hurr muh escapism fantasy" has nothing to do with science. Keep fiction out of /sci/.

>>5615911
Even fiction about science is science related, strictly speaking, and therefore on-topic.

>>5615914
Go look up the word "related", then.

>>5615913
Look up the word "science" in a dictionary, you illiterate uneducated cretin. Stop watching retarded sci fi shit and learn some real science. This board is not for your fantasy roleplaying.

>>5615916
>connected by reason of an established or discoverable
Science fiction does not follow the scientific method. It is not connected by reason at all. Under your retarded assumption philosophy is related to mathematics because it makes use intuitionistic logic. Escapism fantasies, roleplaying, opinions, beliefs and infantilism don't belong here. I suggest you lurk more, delete this thread, and find out yourself before you get a ban.

>>5615914
Fantasy role-playing is in essence what human existence is. Majority always wins. Right now you are losing friend, but if you choose to perceive yourself as King Autist Master of /Sci/, I'm not going to stop you.

>>5615924
>Fantasy role-playing is in essence what human existence is.
I don't care what your infantile beliefs are. It isn't science or mathematics. Off-topic garbage is not allowed here. Take it to /b/.

>>5615927
All things are science and mathematics... I was enjoying a chat about immortality, but now you've ruined it with your trolling.

>>5615940
I already told you to look up the definition of "science". You should now also look up the definition of "math", or just go back to middle school and relearn these basic things. /sci/ is not /b/ 2.0. I am not trolling, you are the troll posting off-topic crap on the science and math board. Immortality and similar transhumanism nonsense without basis in reality serves nothing but your infantile emotional need for dwelling in fantasies. Just leave. You are lacking the maturity, the intelligence and the education to post on this board.

>>5615948
No John, you are the trolls.

>>5615951
Argument by repetition won't work. We can keep going all day until a mod comes online and permabans you.