/sci/ - Science & Math

ADHD is a lazy excuse. Seriously, the only reason why this fake "diagnosis" exists is because some people fear to admit "I am stupid".

>how do we deal with stigmatization of mental illnesses

by finding out where this epidemic of said illnesses comes from

>>5593398
wrong it has nothing to do with intelligence

The critical deficit associated with ADHD is the failure to develop this capacity for “self-control”, also referred to as “self-regulation”. He suggests that this results primarily for biological reasons, and not because of parenting.

As a result of this core deficit in self-regulation, specific and important psychological processes and functions subsequently fail to develop in an optimal way. These include the following:

>>5593398
>because some people fear to admit "I am lazy".
fixed

>>5593423
Lack of self-control is a symptom of retardation. A person who fails to develop self-control like every other normal human being is just deficient. There's no need to invent a fancy new name for this deficiency. It's called idiocy and we shouldn't give them unnecessary special treatment just to make them feel better.

>>5593443
Oh go away

>>5593423
I have ADHD
I can control myself
It is just somewhat difficult to at times, and depends on what needs to be controlled.

for example, responding to this post, just 2 seconds ago i was going to respond, now that I'm thinking it over, I'm going to sage while responding to prevent the page from being bumped, why? I had no reason at first, but no let me think.

Because everyone else is,
its not that great of a thread,
Because mental illness which involves diagnosing someone based off of their inability to shut their fucking mouths shouldn't be a illness at all, seeing as how i could simply choose to say nothing, or to not react to something, i just do based on impluse.

Regymon means

Now i've decided not to sage,

>people with ADHD suffer more stigma than people with ADD
I had the foresight to attach a camera unit to my sides, NASA's budget problem is solved.

I lived with a guy last year who had really severe ADHD, he'd been on multiple scripts since he was a child.
The guy was the most ADD motherfucker imaginable, it would take him 15 minutes to get out the door any time he went somewhere, fucker would literally put down a bowl halfway through smoking weed, leave it there and just completely forget about it for half an hour, he was really fucking smart too, one of the smartest people I've known once I really got to know him.
From then on whenever I come across some dumbfuck who doesn't believe ADD is real I stare at them like they are mentally retarded and do not bother trying to reason with them as they obviously have no fucking clue.

That said, yeah I do believe it's way overdiagnosed because there are a lot of dumb kids who don't have ADD but are just dumb and kids and their parents can't accept it and want a pill to fix it. But it is a very real thing and the people who have it legitimately do need treatment.

>>5593443

This.
What used to be a child who was a bit naughty and didn't concentrate properly is now suddenly "the most impairing mental illnesses besides schizophrenia or autism".

>>5593443
>if you have ADD, it's not a real illness it's just lack of self control
>people who lack self control are retarded
>but people with ADD don't have anything wrong with them
great logic there champ

>>5593567
well, it's a significant impairment in a society where the business cycle is increasingly defined by automation and offshoring. if you can't do symbolic manipulation for 12 hours a day, you are bound for the bottom of the heap, and that wasn't the case for the baby boomers.
>>5593568
I think this anon is trying in his imperfect way to say that people with ADHD have an illness of the soul, not the flesh. Maybe there's something to that, but brain science is so underdeveloped that it's foolish to make sweeping assertions about these things.

jew with adhd here, for me it just means i have a hard time concentrating. that's all.

>>5593597
perhaps you should be sent to some kind of concentration camp

>>5593599
yeah that appears to have been the joke.

>>5593562

>Smokes weed and forgets bowl
>On multiple scripts since childhood
>Wonders why he has attention problems.

lel

>>5593568
>>5593590
Full retards. Are you both illiterate? ADD is not a new diagnosis, it's just a fancy degenerate hugbox label for cognitive impairment aka retardation.

>>5593613
But you are literally saying that
>people with ADD are all retarded
>people with ADD deserve no sympathy whatsoever for their disorder because you're too fucking retarded to understand that it's real
Seriously, are you just trying to show off to /sci/ how edgy you can be or are you retarded yourself?

>>5593606
That's the thing, though, when he was on his meds he was a fully functional student, he had an IQ of like 135 and did fine in school, but then he'd have nothing to do one day and not take his meds and he'd accomplish nothing all day, even if your idiot ass believes he was only ADD because of the meds and weed, the meds completely transformed him into a productive person.

>>5593663
Retards deserve no sympathy in the academic context. One of the purposes of educational institutions is to weed out those who are cognitively unqualified. Giving their retardation a new lable in order to treat them differently instead of weeding them out only serves to watering down and polluting the academic environment.

why not use facts instead
that might get you somewhere
this applies to everyone
no one cares about your opinions

>>5593699

> giving retardation a new lable
> a new lable
> lable
>
> 2013
> shitting all over retarded people while being retarded

>>5593764
>oh no, a typo

>>5593699
Bet you think you know exactly who YOU'd let in if you had it your way. Ignorant tool

Grade, evaluate, and assess children constantly and publicly. Begin early. Make sure everyone knows his or her rank.

Honor the highly graded. Keep grading and real world accomplishment as strictly separate as possible so that a false meritocracy, dependent on the support of authority to continue, is created. Push the most independent kids to the margin; do not tolerate real argument.

Reward dependency in many forms. Call it "teamwork."

>>5593568

>>5593443
>>5593613
>>5593699

>>5593799
dont know what you really said but I think i get it

The behavioral treatment for ADHD is infective at best.

What we need to do is set people ADHD at higher standards and make them live under a constant threat so they will be forced to be motivated

Medication helps only if you have the right behavioral treatment methods

Medication+tougher love=no more ADHD

Personally I think everyone that can tolerate amphetamines relatively safely should take them.

>>5593613
Jesus even if you want to call all mental problems retardation surely you can accept that there are different kinds of retardation? Why just use one term to describe what in all likelihood is a collection of distinct disorders?

>>5593398
>>5593388

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

>>5593699

>implying effective treatment doesn't exist

>>5594327
This.
ADHD isn't a fucking disease, it's a human reality that some people have worse than others.
Snort Dexy Errday.

>>5593699
The purpose of pre-university education is twofold:
- identification of abilities and deficits
- satisfying the human right to education

The former leads to the diagnosis of ADD.
The latter demands that special effort is taken to ensure ADD kids have basic education so they can function in society.
Since the ADD group is large, and since it requires significantly different education from baseline people, ADD-unique facilities have to be created.

If you believe that your national government pays too little attention to baseline or to exceptionally skilled students in lower education, then you are right to demand more funds and attention to be paid to that, but demanding that attention to be taken from ADD facilities is as stupid as demanding budget cuts to NASA in order to pay more attention to clean energy research and implementation: you needlessly cause a division between people who want both, and people who want one significantly more than the other, weakening your message.

I know that feel; you see your national government as an immovable obstacle, or at least one which doesn't allow for discussion in this context, but since you still have an urge to speak for your cause, you lash out against weaker targets which are less insurmountable, not to mention easier to debate.

Might as well add my 2cents here.

Sayyou are really interested in something,
and you really wanna get down and read a book about it.

Brain says fuck no, you are actually interested in this useless shit instead.
And you are never able to do what really interests you.

>>5593434
So how the fuck do you cure laziness? It sure as hell isn't "not be lazy": because I've sure as hell tried02 that. I don't want to be lazy, I'm sickened by my own lack of motivation, it makes me horribly upset and depressed and I can barely live with myself yet even that doesn't motivate me to fix myself. Every time I try to improve myself it all falls apart miserably

>>5593799
That is a reallllly creepy way of putting the truth, my man.

>>5594666
This.
I can't play video games without dropping them after 20 minutes.
I can't read past 10-15 pages of a book.

The only thing that can keep me still is the internet, and that's cause having multiple discussion tabs open and the ability to jump to something like youtube keeps my brain tied down.
Usually I need to drink alcohol to slow down, otherwise I get antsy.

For the short time I was in post secondary, every time I tried to study I felt like my brain was in a vice grip and had no oxygen flow whenever I tried to focus, things would just fog up and stop making sense.
My attention would draw to other things instantly.

It's insane.

>>5594739
You just lack discipline and commitment.

>>5594743
You're an idiot and you don't know me.

>>5594764
>You're an idiot
Great argument. It really sounds like you just don't know how to commit to something.

>>5594743


How does one get discipline and commitment?

>>5593540
I'd be fucking ashamed to admit to having ADHD.
It just seems like a personality flaw, work towards getting rid of it and never admit to being sick like that.

>>5594739
Seriously you just need to focus, stop wasting your own time.

>>5593613
>cognitive impairment aka retardation.

There is no such thing as the mind, no such thing as mental illness and no such thing as "cognitive impairment".

Psychology is not science. Deal with it.

I have to agree with Thomas Szasz on this issue. It's nothing more than a social construct, until someone discovers some tangible evidence for its existence.

http://www.szasz.com/cchr.html

>>5594847
Go fuck yourself.

>>5594804
>you just don't know how to commit to something.

And how does one commit to something?

>>5594847
>There is no such thing as the mind, no such thing as mental illness and no such thing as "cognitive impairment".

What hippie drug crazed philosophy is this...

>>5594851

lel. butthurt psychology student detected

>>5594857

The "mind" is just a made up hypothetical construct that has no basis in physical reality, much like free will, qualia, dark matter and string theory.

Fucking retarded moralists, trying to turn neurology into a goddamn MORALITY PLAY.

For example this asshole right here
>>5594743

Yeah, because paleolithic hunter-gatherer physiologies exposed to meth analogues ala electronic stimulation at radically higher levels than at any time in human history are supposed to magically create the neurological networks that work as "sustained discipline and commitment".

Fuck you asshole. I'm not saying that practicing a behavior won't create and reinforce networks but that it's a lot harder for someone with ADHD to maintain that behavior to get the actual physical architecture in place unless they use stimulants.

>>5594860
So?

>>5594860
How else am I to explain to you what is seeing and understanding the world through my eyes that are stuck in my skull typing this to you. What not, if my mind is making it's thoughts known to you, another mind. The eyes are the windows to the mind.

You can't just abolish axioms like this.

>>5594848
>http://www.szasz.com/cchr.html

Fucking retarded false equivalence. ADHD is probably a mixture of personality and straight up chemical imbalances stuck in a feedback cycle. If you can't focus enough to study you don't reinforce studying behavior which makes it harder to focus to study.

I wish fucks like him would off themselves for patting themselves on the back like they managed to discredit those gosh darned hucksters (thousands of dedicated professionals who have studied and collected data) with a simple bit of historical analysis (oh no psychiatrists had social and moral biases as well).

Just fuck you and your kind. Eat my ass.

>>5594866
>>5594867

So it doesn't exist. So mental illnesses, i.e illnesses of the mind, don't exist either. And neither do cognitive impairments i.e impairments of the mind.

Thinking is a made-up term that refers to nothing. What is thinking? How do you measure and observe thinking? You can't.

The only thing that exists is brain activity, and nobody knows what brain activity even means. Correlation != causation.

>>5594867

Okay instead of mind use something like "neurology". Because it implies a testable system that has all the outputs of traditional "mind" but none of the metaphysical garbage and philo-historical baggage.

>>5594861
Until there is a pathological basis for ADHD, it doesn't exist and is nothing more than behaviour.
Social stigma is a nice excuse for people who don't want to change their behaviour. It fosters a relationship in which doctor and patient collude. The drug industry gets paid and the patient is excused for their shortcomings.

>>5594875
>Thinking is a made-up term that refers to nothing. What is thinking? How do you measure and observe thinking? You can't.

Haven't you seen CAT-scans of brain patterns being observed when the brain is sending synapses that are thoughts? Parts of the brain lights up, suggesting the mind at work which is your brain.
Of course it's not complete, we haven't gotten very far, though that does not mean you can override it, and you know this.
>>5594877
Mind=neurology
I don't see the point is disregarding an established well known word for something everyone knows what it is already.

>>5594875
Fuck off Tokiko. Nobody likes you.

>>5594884

Brain activity IS NOT thought. Brain activity exists. Thought doesn't. You can measure and observe brain activity. You can't measure or observe thought.

Read Voodoo Correlations in Social Neuroscience

>>5594886

Emotions detected.

>>5594868
You say 'probably' because you lack evidence. Welcome to reality, where things exist or they don't exist based on empirical evidence. What you are doing is expressing a biased opinion of the way you'd like to see reality.
The true nature of reality is however based on evidence rather than opinions.

Thousands of professionals are dedicated to making money and justifying a need for their existence. They base diagnoses on opinions. As they benefit from increasing numbers of 'ill' people, I think we can agree that their opinions are very susceptible to bias.

>>5594889
What's your reasoning that brain activity isn't thoughts? The CAT-scans should prove that brain activity are thoughts because they ask the subject to think of something, and the brain reacts.
What more proof would you need?

>>5594878

There are probably numerous basis for ADHD which manifest themselves as the behavior.

>Social stigma is a nice excuse for people who don't want to change their behaviour

It's hard to change behavior when one's neurochemistry is out of whack.

>the patient is excused for their shortcomings.

Or the patient gets better with medication and is able to function normally. Or the patient doesn't respond to treatment but considering that we are in the infancy of neuroscience relatively speaking, there are probably good chances for treatment in the future.

What complicates things is that first world neurologies are getting more meth-like stims at an increasing rate.

not science

>>5594901
Show me evidence of pathological or biochemical differences in ADHD subjects vs 'normal' subjects.
Nothing you say matters if it is not based on evidence.

>>5594891

Nice one there rhetorician but you seem to be abusing a natural and beneficial instinct ("humans are bastards") with the fact that modern society is probably feeding developing neurologies with more constant dopamine stims than at any time in history. And at an increasing rate as I must belabor.

Behavioral therapy does work but for the same reasons pills do (because it reinforces and creates physical connections in the neurology).

>>5594918
Would you please stop saying 'probably'?!
It's not a very scientific word. Has nothing to do with evidence, only the lack thereof.

You clearly have a bias and wish this concept to exist in order to benefit yourself. Maybe they'll give you the same grade as the kid getting straight A's just because you claim to have some imaginary illness.
If you're interested in this....go get a phd in the field. You'll soon see that your arguments will be taken apart if you don't show any evidence.

Psychiatry is a pseudoscience. They invent new diseases to fill the DSM by consensus. Science is not done by consensus.

>>5594891

And when I say "probably", it's because there isn't a golden 40 year study involving a bajillion people which has finally determined the genesis of ADHD. But there's a lot of good guess that have lead to treatments with better rates of success than acting like sanctimonious assholes who pretend that their ego is a magical being that self-created itself as opposed to being a physical entity subject to physics and chemistry.

It's just remarkable that after the 20th century and the vast human experimentation with psychotropic drugs, the moralists still insist on being retarded and chiding non-retarded folk for not calling upon an imaginary mechanic ("free will").

>>5594930

"probably" is probably (ha ha) the most scientific word to use when one is discussing an illness that has a bunch of clues but for which an authoritative pathology hasn't been established.

Calling psychiatry a "pseudoscience" is denying the reality of psychotropic drugs and the past two hundred years of vast experimentation with them. You can have squabbles with sloppy methodology and stuff but it'd be ridiculous to tell millions of people that the changes in their neurochemistry did not make a dint of difference in their behavior or in their ability to change their behavior.

I feel like I'm talking to someone who doesn't subscribe to plate tectonics or evolution.

>>5594959

I mean to explain how much of an asshole you sound like, imagine someone slipping you a blotter of LSD, demanding you do some responsibility which you are incapacitated for, and then ascribing your inability to do whatever task due to a "moral" failing. Instead of your neurochemistry being so out of wack that your executive functions can't work properly.

I suspect that your weird paranoia regarding psychiatry is because of the American magic pill complex. As if the pill is going to tuck you into bed, as opposed to enabling the executive functions to grow stronger connections.

Wow this is the edgiest I've seen /sci/ in a long time. Calling people with ADHD "retards" among other bullshit. Please stop talking about ADHD until you're not fucking stupid.

I have it. It means I get distracted a lot easier than other people. Not that I'm lazy or whatever other shit you heard on 4chan. I'm getting my masters in EE and worked really hard in school. Chances are I'm a lot smarter than you, child who calls people with ADHD "retards" on the internet.

You're as bad as the faggots from /pol/ who spend their days on 4chan telling everyone how much smarter white people are when there are successful black people who have achieved more than they ever will.

Is it true that Ritalin will help form the neural pathways that people with ADHD don't have?

>>5594823
Fuck off. I bet you're one of those faggots who's advice to a heroin addict would be "hey man just stop doing it it's not that hard all you gotta do is not do it anymore"

>>5594959
>"probably" is probably (ha ha) the most scientific word
"probably" is a weasel-word that has no meaning in science (nor mathematics, nor Statistics) and has little meaning outside those disciplines, other than not knowing what one is talking about, but unable to STFU,

>>5595051
>I bet
another bettor with no funds, "all hat and no cattle".

Who gives a shit?

I'm sure there are gentlemen here who have spent many years in a college or university.
Lets have a thread about effective study habits.

In definition and concept heavy courses such as biology or chem I would read the textbook and then write down the Important information in a bullied list. Sometimes the notes get pretty extensive but it's pretty fucking worth it when the test rolls around and you know your gonna bend it over and dry fuck it.
Also the notes are excellent for future reference when that concept or idea is eluding you.
So how do you study /sci/?

>>5595110
Whelp...

>>5594875
>hat has no basis in physical reality, much like free will, qualia, dark matter and string theory.

Away with your cheap pseudoscience, faggot. I have seen you already trolling other nice threads.

There's real ADHD and there's rich white person ADHD.
One is a disorder, one is parents paying for a diagnosis that enables them to fantasize that their child is actually a genius.

>>5595037
Raping the applause button.
I once interviewed a psychologist about AD and ADHD. The only clear answer I could get are:
''We look for lack of attention and impulsivity in order to diagnose these disorders.''
Seriously, that seems like full of shit.
I have also heard it all from psychologists and neurologists, claiming that AD/ADHD had different brain structures, smaller brains, different DNA, more/less memory than the average, higher/lower IQ than the average and even that they were more skilled in certain areas of the brain.
IMHO Too much mythification, too little real science.

>>5594847
Thanks for confirming that you are mentally deficient. Cognitive disabilities are physiological disorders, defects of the brain.

>>5595110

I study linguistics/CS (inb4 not a science, not claiming it is) and I've had extensive negative experience in assimilating various formats of knowledge.

Grammar tables, for instance, can be done by rote (read from book, write down what you've remembered, correct mistakes, rinse, repeat). For some reason I'm slow compared to peers but it works.

Vocabulary is best done by spaced repetition but it's still a god-awful clusterfuck with my methods, because as the numbers reach into the 5-6 hundreds the earliest data tends to evaporate. I also find this type of learning extremely time-consuming and inefficient (average of maybe 15 words per hour).

Studying mathematics (at my level, at least) is pretty straight-forward because you just train how to follow solving processes so I've found it the least frustrating.

My physics studying basically revolves around memorizing each and every problem verbatim, but that's probably due to a bad teacher.

If anyone knows of decent methods for improving intuitive knowledge (i.e. retaining snapshots of pages in your memory, getting the "hunch" effect more often), it would help immensely because studying apparently takes at least double the time necessary.

I'd also like to hear some thoughts regarding "flow state" - I've experienced it a couple of times and absolutely flew over coursework (6-8 hours of studying), but most of the time I get tired too fast (after only 4-5 hours), eyes hurt, frustrated over own inefficiency etc.

>>5595131
Well, yeah, all those traits are merely statistical and not deterministic, as is expected when a disease is defined from symptoms and not underlying cause, which leads to the only diagnosis being symptoms when there's not an actual budget for testing.

http://cogsci.stackexchange.com/questions/1886/how-well-defined-is-add-adhd/

>>5595171
First of all thanks for the info, yet it's something I had already seen and I'm still not too convinced with that since it can be applied to many people.
>-often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
>- often has difficulty awaiting turn
>- often interrupts or intrudes on others.

It is surprising the number of AD/ADHD people that you can find on any regular debate these days.
Damn retards who can't wait their turn!

Another of the trait the psychologist told me was ''excessive curiosity''. Am I the only one who finds those definitions laughable?

I'm not trying to prove that my dick is larger than anyone else's, I'm just pointing out that it's still a bit suspicious.

I have ADHD OP is a faggot I do fine in school, neuro major

The problem isn't your ADHD, the problem is you are a faggot with no real purpose in life and thus cannot focus because you have no real reason to.

Ims ummary, you are an inferior plebian, please kill yourself thanks.

>>5595056
Probably, derived from the word Probability, which is a term for the likelihood of an event happening in statistics, a branch of mathematics.

If something will 'probably happen' it means that probability favors an event, and there is a >50% chance of it happening.

Jesus fucking christ kids, your entire argument is about the definition of words like 'mind' and 'probability'. Neither of you are making any actual points or providing any support for your cause, you're just fucking arguing over the definition of words.

>>5595110
>>5595142
More discussion on study habits!

My study process goes a bit like this
>Go to lecture
>work a few examples
>read over the book material
>work a few examples
>read over anything I'm confused about or feel more information is needed on on wikipedia or other internet-sources
>read over notes to freshen up on things the prof will likely test on

>>5595398
Forgot to note that I generally do very well on concepts, but poorly on vocabulary

Not trolling, I have moderate adhd
> be 19
> good at basic college level biology
> can't even do 8th grade level math
> no friends at all
> lazy as fuck
> complicated somewhat smart mind, but not very vocal , appears if I'm a tard on the outside

>>5594668
You have to fucking try harder. It's hard and it sucks dick but it's just something you (and billions of people) just overcome through growing up. So many people don't create the willpower and determination to overcome everything and just fall into stagnation.

ADHD has alot to do with determination and/or maturity. A large portion of (Social) children are naturally often exposed to peer pressure, whether apparent or deep rooted (i.e feeling of necessity to appear fit) and thus develop that determination or motivation out of 'need.'

Thus, ADHD kids are often those with less/minimal social interaction, completely content with their mental/social state, never having the necessity to become determined or the willingness to "push through," in a sense.
Ritalin, adderal, etc. essentially -amines (similar to methamphetamine) provide that mental boost or determination (a fleeting determination) that wears off along with the drug. So yeah, kids with "ADHD" naturally don't get stuff done, and then GET stuff done while under the influence of the drug.
Some may see this as a solution, but all it does is prolong the subject's inability to naturally 'create determination.'

Current medication practices are indefinite solutions to just deal with the symptoms, rather than fit the root cause.

(I don't know a solution to the root cause)

>>5594847
what is schizophrenia?
what is autism?

>>5595756
>what is schizophrenia?
A genetic disease. Neurotransmitter production and usage in schizophrenics is defective.

>what is autism?
A made up faux diagnosis and a pathetic excuse for spoiled brats to misbehave without punishment.

>>5594848

Thomas Szasz

Mental Illness doesn't exists
Drug addiction doesn't exists

schizophrenics and heroin addicts are just cry babies?

>>5594910
>biochemical differences in ADHD

A new study at Örebro University in Sweden shows that children with ADHD have nearly 50 percent less of a protein that is important for attention and learning. The finding may mean that there are other biochemical disturbances in the brains of individuals with ADHD than was previously believed.-2011 Örebro University

>>5595765
>schizophrenics and heroin addicts are just cry babies?
Schizophrenics are suffering from a physiological disease and heroin addicts are in fact just cry babies. Just like you. The only disorder you're suffering from is cognitive impairment, no matter what apologetic neologisms you invent to cover it up.

>>5595761
>A made up faux diagnosis and a pathetic excuse for spoiled brats to misbehave without punishment.

Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication.

Mental illness is real their mr. i deny my own autism

>All this talk about ADHD

What about ADD?

>>5595770
>heroin addicts are in fact just cry babies
0/10

Physical dependence refers to a state resulting from chronic use of a drug that has produced tolerance and where negative physical symptoms of withdrawal result from abrupt discontinuation or dosage reduction.

>>5595775
Attention deficit disorder (ADD) is one of the three subtypes of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.-DSM-IV

>>5594858
Just telling an asshole to fuck off, geneus. You can take a suck on a tailpipe too, twinkie.

The evidence is overwhelming that ADHD is the result of neurological factors and that these problems with brain development and functioning can arise from difference in genes that construct and operate the brain, particularly the executive networks. But it is also possible for some ADHD to arise from neurological injuries especially during pre-natal and post-natal brain development, such as through exposure to toxins (like maternal smoking and alcohol use), exposure to prenatal infections, and to toxins such as lead after birth as well as head injury and other factors that can affect brain development. Genetic and environmental hazards can interact to increase risk for the disorder as well. There is no evidence that purely social factors can produce the disorder.-Dr. Barkley

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/02/24/revisiting-adhd-add-with-dr-russel-barkley-attention-deficit-disorder-or-executive-function-deficit-disorder/

Russell A. Barkley, Ph.D., is a Research Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the State University of New York Upstate Medical University

>>5595772
What a huge load of bullshit. Autism doesn't exist. It's not a real diagnosis. If those kids were taught how to socialize instead of being labeled "autistic", none of their "symptoms" would be observable anymore.

>>5595777
>Physical dependence
... has nothing to do with mental disorders, as you just explained.

>>5594867
Just tell him to go fuck himself. It's only a repetitive dick who keeps posting about how we're automatons. Don't reason with an asshole who rejects his own ability to perceive.

>>5593388
>So, /sci/ how do we deal with stigmatization of mental illnesses

By GTFO. Go to /soc/, they always have some pity.

>>5595786
Stop using that wrong label. People who are incapable of concentrating or learning are just cognitively impaired. That's intellectual disability and nothing else and they deserve no special treatment. That's what educational institutions are designed for: Weeding out those who are not qualified.

>>5595798
People who are incapable of seeing are just visually impaired. That's Blindness and nothing else and they deserve no special treatment. That's what educational institutions are designed for: Weeding out those who are not qualified.

>>5595805
Yes, very true. A blind person won't get a job which critically depends on visual perception. Just like a cognitively impaired person won't succeed in the academic context.

>>5594889
Go fuck yourself. With indifference.

>>5595809
>diagnosed ADHD since 8
>have good grades,
>shitty job for now, but hey, I'm studying
>normally one of the top 3 students
>graduating this year
Well, I guess I'll assume I have an intellectual disability and throw myself into a furnance so I can keep warm perfect people like you.
Or I could just tell you to learn a bit more about this topic before your own shit rains all over your roof.
Lack of empathy, lack of perspective and lack of information.

>>5595851
You just proved how nonsensical that faux "diagnosis" is. If it's meant to diagnose cognitive impairment, then the fact that you are capable of studying means that you were incorrectly diagnosed.

>>5595858
Nope.
I have most of these symptoms, but still I have attention bursts in which I obsessively focus on something.
I use these periods to do some intensive cramming while I work less the rest of the time.
My little bro has the same disorder, same behavior than I do and yet his grades are not too good, though. He just entered highschool so I guess that's the huge difference.
It's not as bad as it seems.

>>5595872
Why do you need that lazy excuse pseudo-diagnosis if you are capable of leaning? It doesn't make sense. Or are you lying?

I have ADD but honestly I find the side effects of medication unpleasant. I take it for important exams now since I had some left over but have since run out

Currently, I'm trying to discipline myself and get as organized as possible. It largely contrasts to my original view on life "LOL YOLO JUST MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG"

it worked for awhile, but ultimately turned out to hinder progress towards my goals.

going to bed early instead of staying up all night on the computer has proved effective

its still hard to resist doing that but i'm getting better

tl:dr all the comments, throwing in my 2 cents like a jerk:
Diagnosed with ADD, took meds for a couple years, decided it was an issue of learning to focus and control myself, stopped taking meds and wouldn't bother saying I have ADD of any sort now.

Am I distractable? Extremely, because I allow myself to be usually. Just because you don't know how to doesn't mean you can't, just have to exercise the brain to slow down and focus and block out distractions...that's how I feel anyway

>>5595879
I was diagnosed by a psychologist and so was my brother.
Several years later I did my own research, though and read a lot about this topic from many different perspectives. Some people claimed that ADHD were retarded and some others that they were special snowflakes and... here's the funny part: BOTH sides claimed to have a study in X university that proved their statements.
Why do you call it lazy excuse just because I'm capable of learning? Maybe the problem is not the diagnose, but the disorder itself.

>>5595805

Is anyone asking for special treatment? There is a difference between acknowledgement of a disability so that students and teachers can identify effective strategies to overcome it. You can teach a deaf person sigh language or a blind person braille. What can you teach to someone with ADHD to help them overcome their impulsiveness? What exercises can help with concentration?

>>5595798

>People who are incapable of concentrating or learning are just cognitively impaired

That's funny because the basal ganglia is implicated in inheritance studies, particularly dopamine receptors DAT1, DRD4, and DRD5 most commonly expressed in the substantia nigra, ventral tegument area, striatum, nucleus accumbens, and the limbic system. None of these areas are responsible for cognitive processes. In fact, the mesolimbic pathway feeds outputs into the medial prefrontal cortex, hippocampus, amygdala while the mesocortical has outputs in the dorsolateral pfc. This is why people with ADHD can have high cognative ability but still have problems learning. It's not laziness or stupidity; you have no conscious control over your basal ganglia.

>>5595805
You deserve no special treatment, you are inferior. As I said before, ADHD only affects you slightly if you are not an inferior popsci plebian who has no real goals in life and is not disciplined. If you are one, it it catastrophic, but who cares about you anyway, you aren't an important person anyways. People who are blind must spend years of their life learning braille and have to go to specific schools. You do not have it nearly as bad as them. You. Are. A. P-L-E-B-I-A-N. Do you understand that?

>>5595913
Fucking this.
Moreover, some meds have some really bad effects when you grow up. Don't fuck with the brain unless you really know what you're doing.

>>5595916
>conscious control

And now we got an /x/ dualist in here. Can't you just stay on your own board instead of shitting up /sci/?

>>5595922
>trolling
>on fucking /sci/
come on man get a life

>>5595928
Nigga go away, are you a bot that spams every time you detect the word conscious?

>>5595916
>None of these areas are responsible for cognitive processes
Are you seriously saying that concentration is not related to cognitive processes?

>>5595934
What he said is correct, you pleb.

>>5595934
I'm not, he actually disgusts me. I was in sped in highschool years ago and he reminds me of all the other people with add/adhd

>>5594889

>emotions detected

jokes on you, the emotional response system is infact integral to the decision making process for setting goals and satisfactory conclusions.

>>5595966

Define emotion.

>>5595983
Not him, but emotions are neurochemical reactions.

>>5593699
Fuck you.

The purpose of educational institutions isn't to weed out anybody, you fucking condescending motherfucker.

It's to give every human being the tools necessary to achieve as much as possible using their talents and efforts.

Fucking grow up, you little shit stain aspie. Arrogant motherfucker.

>>5596020
>The purpose of educational institutions isn't to weed out anybody

I guess you've never been to any kind of school, so let me tell you how it works. At the end of each semester students have to write exams. Those who are too stupid to understand the contents fail the exams.

>>5595984

So are lots of things.

>>5596020
if it were like that, university would be free.

>>5596029
I fail to see how this post is supposed to convey any meaningful insight.

>>5596031
University is free. But contrary to >>5596020's delusions
that doesn't mean that everyone can get a degree.

>>5596034

I'm sorry, did you mean to say that ALL neurochemical reactions are emotions? If so that's not very helpful.

>>5595928

Nope. From the 'pedia:

'Libet found that the unconscious brain activity leading up to the conscious decision by the subject to flick his or her wrist began approximately half a second before the subject consciously felt that she had decided to move. Libet's findings suggest that decisions made by a subject are first being made on a subconscious level and only afterward being translated into a "conscious decision", and that the subject's belief that it occurred at the behest of her will was only due to her retrospective perspective on the event.'

Experimental evidence of processes occur in our brains without our awareness that controls our choices.

>>5595936

fMRIs show more action potential in the frontal lobe when problem solving. This is where you're doing your thinking, or rather where the signaling from elsewhere is integrated and processed. fMRIs of people with ADHD show more non-localized brain activity meaning the stimuli aren't going to the right places (mpfc, dpfc). Concentration, motivation, novelty seeking etc. are controlled by areas of the basal ganglia/limbic system. If stimuli aren't even reaching the area's of the brain responsible for cognitive thinking then how can the frontal lobe be implicated? All the machinery of problem solving and reasoning can function normally but only if it actually gets used. Also, medication, particularly amphetamine, used for ADHD causes a manifold release of dopamine in the VTA and Nucleus Accumbens. More action potential means a stronger stimulus which means more activity in the frontal lobe. Now, if ADHD were really a cognitive deficiency, then increased signaling to the pfc would have no effect. The signal would get there but nothing would happen to it. The lights would be on but noone would be home. Yet this is the opposite of what we find.

>>5593540
I had a friend with really bad adhd, luckily though I got better.

>>5596039
Obviously reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. You failed at it just as hard as you failed at basic logic. Where did I say or imply "all"?

>>5596043

So how are emotions different from any other neurochemical reactions?

>>5596041
>Libet
Libet is a crackpot and full of shit. He doesn't even know the difference between scientific research and metaphysical babble. Please read up on neuroscience. Magical non-interacting ghosts are not subject of neuroscience. Your soul/consciousness garbage is not testable and can be dismissed for lack of evidence.

>Experimental evidence
Do you also think people believing in ghosts is "experimental evidence" for the existence of ghosts?

Please stay on >>>/x/. You are clearly lacking basic understanding of the scientific method.

>>5596045
They are not. Where did I ever imply they were? They are a special case of neurochemical responses defined in neuroscience.

>>5596041
>If stimuli aren't even reaching the area's of the brain responsible for cognitive thinking then how can the frontal lobe be implicated?

Obviously your conception of cognitive processes is plain wrong, if you consider concentration and learning not to be cognitive processes.

>>5596054

So how the fuck do you distinguish an emotion from any other neurochemical reaction? Doesn't that mean that any and all neurochemical reactions can be emotions?

Fuck you. I'm not playing this game anymore.

>>5596041
Novelty seeking is not required, you are not an animal.

Extrinsic motivation is not required, you are not an animal.

Concentration does take a hit, but can be stopped, just think of why you are doing what you are doing and you will go back to doing that thing. Eventually the moments of distraction will reduce in length (2 mins -> 10 secs -> 3 secs) and it will not be much of an effect.

You can nitpick certain functions and pathways of the brain and say they can stop you if you want to, but be prepared to stay in the foothills while the rest of us climb the mountain.

>>5596065
why are you trolling him poop head

he's just a guy

>>5596065
You're right. The terminology is arbitrary and outdated. Neuroscience is a clusterfuck of ill-defined concepts and often incorrectly mixed up with metaphysics and even spiritualism.

>>5596071
>implying I'm a guy

>>5596081
why the fuck does it matter asshole

>>5596086
What are you talking about?

>>5596094
>implgibnyn im penis hurf

>>5596097

>>>/r9k/

>>5596067
>Extrinsic motivation is not required, you are not an animal.

Remind me why we have a market economy again.

>>5596102
>>/cgl/

>>5596104
>Everyone else is a faggot, so i have to be one too

top lel <:^)

>>5596108

How do you acquire intrinsic motivation?

>>5596105
/cgl/ is pleb tier, full of people who are lagging behind in their mental development. I mean seriously, grown-ups who still play dress up games? Role playing as infantile cartoon characters?

>>5596115
none is required, stop trying to debate me fagit

>>5596104
What does a market economy have to do with the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic motivation?

>>5596121
hes an autismlord, market economies are based on what people are motivated to buy

>>5596115
>How do you acquire intrinsic motivation?

for example hunger

>>5595851
mahh nigga

As OP of this thread may I make it clear that people with ADHD can function normally and in some cases excel much like others with mental or physical illness that have been manged right.

I am not talking about lowering the standards for us but to recognize out illness not as an excuse but a treatable and manageable condition.

But as long as there is an ignorance of all mental illness which propagates by the means of the media, we will face not only ridicule but the worsening our mental illness

>>5596124
Hunger never motivated me to study or create.

>>5596136
>people with ADHD can function normally

You just invalidated the "diagnosis". If it doesn't mean any symptoms, it's meaningless and redundant.

>>5596137
You're grasping at straws.

>>5595858
>If it's meant to diagnose visual impairment, then the fact that you are capable of READING BRAILLE means that you were incorrectly diagnosed.

That's how ignorant you are of ADHD
asshole

>>5596145
I'm ignorant of something that doesn't really exist? Nice tautology.

>>5595916
I was just mocking the other poster's ignorance
I don't ADHD deserves special treatment in light of lowering standards

>>5596157
You're not in the position to mock anything, especially not a correct statement.

>>5596145
I like how you ignore my posts like a plebian so you can continue your retarded discourse. Society will not help you.

>>5596153
>>5596138
>>5596067
>>5596050
>>5595936
>>5596160
>>5596163
Oh BOUY this guy
seems like a legit scientist with an admirable Ph.d and defiantly not a troll or anything

Something can be a mental condition not neurologically but culturally.

The human mind is complex. Sometimes certain extraordinary (but still biologically 'fit') intellectual traits aren't necessarily a disorder in a neurologic sense, but rather within the context of our culture.

So, even if some people just have additional trouble paying attention in class than most doesn't mean there's something neurologically wrong; but their extraordinary lack of attention span may still have some neurological basis. And it may still be a disorder within the context of impairing one's ability to generally function in human society. You have to be able to function in the society in which you live. And if there is some deficit in one's ability to do so with some innate neurologic basis, then chemical intervention to rectify the issue can be warranted.

>>5596173
I am

>>5596163
>>5596067
>>5595922

and one of the posts before

I was diagnosed with ADHD. I overcame my diagnosis. You call me a troll because you disagree with me and cannot overcome your plebness. You do not have a degree, let alone a PHD. If you think I am trolling, refute my arguments.

>>5596173
Not all of these were made by the same poster. Sage is not a 4chan account, everyone can put sage in the email field and when posting in a shit thread like this one it's the recommended way of posting. Infantile insults to do not constitute an argument. Please stop posting below /b/ level comments.

>>5596050

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying consciousness is anything other than action potential. What I'm saying is that there are processes that occur without our knowledge because it's not biologically relevant for us to be aware of those processes. When you look at things, are you aware of the image being separated into components like motion, color, lines that point horizontally, then putting it all back together again? No, you see a coherent image of what you're seeing. We know these things are occurring because stroke victims have had their visual cortex's damaged and have become very aware of whats missing. No self face recognition, no seeing of continuous motion, the ability to say words but not the ability to form sentence structure with them. It's pretty clearly evident that we are not entirely conscious of everything that occurs in our brain and one need not interject a ghost to explain these phenomena.

>>5596060

Oh? Please instruct me? I'd especially like to know about how neuromodulation pathways function to produce cognition.

>>5596067

>you are not an animal

Kingdom: <span class="math">\mathbf{ANIMALIA}[/spoiler]
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens

Seems that way.

>You can nitpick certain functions and pathways of the brain

Yeah, it would seem that I'm interested in the mechanism of how this phenomenon comes to be. Not only to help those with the disorder but also to gain a more detailed understanding of how we can do the things we can do. You can climb all the mountains you want; I'll be researching in my cave...lab...whatever.

>>5596190
I don't care if it's called animalia, you're completely avoiding my point to win a pointless "argument" instead of taking my words and using them to help yourself. What you are doing is completely illogical and makes me glad that you won't get far in the field of science.

i gave you an easier solution than nitpicking, you're like a fat person who blames food being too tasty and an inability to control yourself for the reason for fatness. Just find the best solution instead of looking for the easiest one.

>>5596190
>You're putting words in my mouth.
No, I'm not. You said a soul/consciousness had "experimental evidence". Clearly it doesn't and the unscientific crackpot you cited didn't prove it but on the contrary circularly and baselessly assumed its existence without justification.

> I'm not saying consciousness is anything other than action potential.
Action potential has its own name and doesn't need to be renamed by using spiritualist vocabulary, you silly troll.

>and one need not interject a ghost to explain these phenomena.
Then why do you do it? Stop contradicting yourself.

>>5593388

ADHD is a rubber ducky AND I LOVE RUBBER DUCKIES

>>5596176

>doesn't mean there's something neurologically wrong

Actually, yes it does. Attention, alertness, and motivation allow animals to differentiate between stimuli and rank them on the basis of importance. It's not very surprising that sexy ladies are attention grabbing because a males ability to recognize opportunities for access to reproductively fertile females increases his fitness. Sexual reproduction, particularly in females, is costly; it incurs a caloric cost with little direct benefit to the individual (particularly in solitary organisms where the offspring won't be around in a while to help out hunting or what not). Yet, we are compelled to do it because it is paramount to our fitness and that is was the environment actually selects, those genes that are most fit, regardless of what they do to the individual. Presumably, a high threshold for attention would have been useful to our ancestors because devoting 25-40% of their basal metabolism to the brain, particularly when it is not needed for problem solving or communication is a waste of a limited resource.

Modern human lives in a different environment than our ancestors, thus different selective pressures are being applied to traits. Our society today values what you can do with your brain over how many calories you can store, particularly because of the abundance of food. We don't have to run and hunt for our food anymore so there is no reason to conserve. Individuals with a lower threshold for attention now have the advantage because they can be stimulated enough by extrinsic stimuli to perform complex mental tasks. People with ADHD have to expend a greater amount of effort because they require a greater amount of stimulation. Living right is subjective assumptions about how something should be, fitness is an objective measure of how many offspring a collection of genes can produce. Just because you're different doesn't mean you're fit.

>>5596210

I'm not you clown! Consciousness doesn't mean a soul or a ghost, its all of the stimuli that you are subjectively aware of. We are not our souls, we are our brains; all of it. We're still doing all of the processes whether we are aware they are occurring or not. What Libet demonstrated is that the processes that lead to us making a decision that we are aware of (push the buzzer) begin without our knowing it. Our experience of having free will stems from the fact that we are UNAWARE of the events that precede our making that decision. But on the contrary, the mechanisms in the brain are entirely deterministic, physical, and quantifiable. Our 'random choices' aren't random at all, they arise from the unique collection of action potential with a large but ultimately finite number of outcomes. Our potential to self regulate our decisions is limited by those outcomes, which neurons are connected to which. You can't control the muscular motion of your colon because there are no nerves that go there from your motor cortex. And how do you know that? Because your premotor area is innervated by the executive areas of the prefrontal cortex which in turn is able to perform executive calculations because stimuli from elsewhere innervate it. You can duck away from my fist when it comes through your monitor to punch you in the nose because that stimulus can find its way to your frontal cortex. But you didn't consciously choose to become aware, the combination of excitatory and inhibitory neurons selected my fist to be important enough a stimulus. You have limited control over what you pay attention to but the limbic system can and does bypass the frontal lobe in certain situations. Evidently, this is the function of the amygdala. Subjective consciousness and unconsciousness are real things; behaviorism does not adequately explain how the brain functions.

BLAH, tell me I'm not a hard determinist, hrrmmph!

>>5596186
>>5596187
memememememe

didn't read

>>5596340
>Consciousness doesn't mean a soul or a ghost
That's exactly what it means. It's an alleged unobservable and untestable metaphysical phenomenon that /x/tards believe to happen in our brains but without any measurable effects. It can be dismissed for irrelevance and lack of evidence or explanatory power.

>you are subjectively aware of
Untestable.

>We are not our souls, we are our brains
Yes. But one sentence earlier you stated the exact opposite. Stop contradicting yourself.

>the mechanisms in the brain are entirely deterministic, physical, and quantifiable
Yes. That's what I'm telling you and that's why you have to give up your magical soul/consciousness nonsense.

>Subjective consciousness and unconsciousness are real things
How retarded are you? Previously you correctly admitted that they are impossible.

>>5594327
>>5594619
YOu guys actually do this? As a maths undergrad I'm fascinated. Hell, if I'm more productive than when stoned... although creativity can help problem solving on occasion, for learning stuff, er... nope.

>>5596359
Do you know what epiphenomenalism is?

>>5596198

I don't even...

>>5596372
Untestable dualist hogwash. An "epiphenomenon" without testable, observable or measurable effects can be dismissed.

>>5596380
How is that different from any other application of inference in science?

>>5596402
Everything in science is based on observational evidence.

>>5596405
Not induction. You have no way of observationally showing a table arises from fundamental physics.

>>5596410
>problem of induction
>huehuehue

Epistemological anarchism is just eloquent edginess meant to (insufficiently) cover up your lack of factual science knowledge. gb2>>>/lit/

>>5596359

>Untestable.

fMRIs, EEG, and PET demonstrate changes in the activity of areas of the brain corresponding to varying levels of consciousness during the wake/sleep cycle. These changes aren't random, they occur in the same parts of the brain. Wakefulness produces one set of results, while unconsciousness produces another (or rather several).

>>5596415
>fMRIs, EEG, and PET demonstrate
fMRI, EEG and PET are physical measurements. A physical measurement cannot prove or justify the existence of metaphysical phenomena without effects. On the contrary they allow for purely physical explanations of neuronal activation and thus eliminate the need to resort to spiritual soul/consciousness nonsense.

>>5596341
>>5596375

Now I can see why the "digging a trench so deep you cant get out" argument is real. Instead of factually even TRYING to refute what i say, you put up inane images and responses.

Like, holy shit, are your skulls made of lead?

>>5596420

Plz go. No one likes you hear.

>>5596420

Bullshit. My MRI's look nothing like that.

Where is your Moses now?

>>5596454
Speak for yourself. If you don't like science, you're not obliged to stay on /sci/. How about you go back to >>>/b/?

>>5596415 (cont)

From the 'pedia:

'In medicine, consciousness is assessed as a combination of verbal behavior, arousal, brain activity and purposeful movement. The last three of these can be used as indicators of consciousness when verbal behavior is absent. The scientific literature regarding the neural bases of arousal and purposeful movement is very extensive.'

This picture is actually showing increased activity in the thalamus which is where external stimulus is actually blocked from reaching the cortex. Auditory, visual, and somatosensory neurons all terminate in the thalamus. I forget which nuclei are inhibitory and excitation but both are in the thalamus. This explains how people who are asleep demonstrate different levels of reactivity or lack there of.

>>5596454
>likes you hear

only niggers have adhd

What is consciousness?

>>5596475
A synonym for soul.

>>5596475

metaphysical magic ectoplasm?

>>5596475
Thalamocortical oscillations

>>5596475
Untestable dualist qualia magic.

>>5596480

that is just a theory, a geuss

>>5596483
>geuss

>>5596482

Then what do IQ tests measure?

>>5596488

That's the guy!

>>5595928
This is an old repetitive troll. Don't reply, just report.

>>5596489
A quantity called "intelligence".

>>5596410
What is a table?

>>5596492

quantity of WHAT?

>>5596491
>>>/global/rules/7

Submitting false reports can result in a ban.

>>5596495
I just answered your question.

>>5596496
Eliminativism isn't science. Enjoy your ban.

>>5596499
Invisible non-interacting spirits are not science. Go back to >>>/x/

>>5596498

No. You didn't. It must have some physical basis, or it isn't real.

>>5596505
Philosophy isn't science. Go back to /lit/.

>>5596507
IQ tests are physical.

>>5596507
him putting it in quotes means that he doesn't believe in in either, stop being such an asshat

>>5593540
I have ADHD and it's very difficult for me to control myself or to concentrate. When I take my medication I can learn so much more, retain more information, think more clearly and think logically. Although I do become more socially retarded when taking it, but I'd rather not be social at all.

>>5596509
If you don't even understand the scientific method, you don't belong here.

>>5596514
If you don't even understand that the scientific method is just an unstable epistemological ground, and doesn't enforce eliminativism, you don't belong here.

>>5596513
Really I just need to learn self control without the reliance of medication. Perhaps I'll take up meditation.

>>5596520
Refer to >>5596413

I have difficulty concentrating and memorizing stuff. Does that mean I have a mental disorder?

>>5596512

beliefs don't real

>>5596465 (cont cont)

Reaction to stimulus is proportional to the different levels of sleep. An EEG measures the sum of all action potential occurring wherever the suction cup is stuck to. The needle only moves when there is a change in the number of neurons firing, so the flatter the line, the more activity. Stage 1 shows that the large majority of neurons are being innervated all at once, meaning they are producing less coherent patterns of signaling. The more wavelike the EEG becomes corresponds rhythmic activation of voltage potential but not very complex patterns. REM and wakefulness are small choppy lines demonstrating the greatest amount of activity but not so much that it's just noise like in Stage 1. REM and wakefulness are also when we are conscious of stimuli. REM is generated internally (plenty of ideas floating around as to why dreams are the way they are) by the cortex while wakefulness the stimuli correspond to outside sources.

Finally, you've gotta get it out of your head that when I say consciousness I'm talking about your idea of what consciousness is. We're talking cross purposes because I'm using words that you have a rigid definition for. When I say consciousness, I'm not talking philosophy; I know very little about metaphysics and what not. I'm talking about observable phenomenon that arise from the physical properties of objects.

>>5596510

so are Astrological charts

>>5596549
So what?

>>5596548
There is no need to use spiritualist vocabulary. Serious neuroscientists avoid it. The only reason why you inisist in mixing that word into copypasted neuroscience studies is for the purpose of trolling.

>>5596552

Did you lose the thread of the argument?

why use a verbal test to measure brain function when we have established that PET scans and MRI's do that.

>>5596558
>Serious neuroscientists avoid it.
wrong

>>5596558

SERIOUS neuroscientists do this

SERIOUS

meaning that the vast majority of neuroscientists who have normal intellectual development and use it just the way everyone else does aren't SERIOUS...

I believe the name of your disorder is Narcissism.

>>5596562
Because before explaining the brain's functions by use of fMRI or EEG we need to define the function we want to examine. The function's definition has to include its observable effects. In this case the function is called "intelligence" and its observable effect consists of scoring high on IQ tests.

>>5596574

substitute any other psychological function for which there is a test,...
and notice what just happened.

..

>>5596582
>and notice what just happened.
Neuropsychology.

>>5596571
Nope, you are wrong.

>>5596573
>aren't SERIOUS...
Do you even into academic rigor? Someone who mixes up research with metaphysical or spiritual beliefs certainly cannot be considered a serious scientist.

>I believe the name of your disorder is Narcissism.
At least one point you got right. Although in my case it isn't a disorder because high intelligence and good education justify narcissism.

>>5596558

So, all of the information I've posted, you've found no inadequacy or disagreement with your own understanding of how the brain works? Particularly with the mechanisms of arousal and motivation and the consequent results?

Really the only thing you have argument with is that I'm using the word consciousness (which happens to have a medical definition apart from the philosophical one) instead of describing these mechanisms over and over?

You should do a better job of presenting evidence yourself instead of just saying 'you're wrong.' Peace out bud.

>>5596571
Let me tell you the legend of the mischievous lurker who wanders the threads of /sci/
If you speak about math or physics he may not see you, but if you mention consciousness even as an expression, the soulless fiend will fall upon you and burn the thread you are in with his flame wars. But do not try to speak with the beast. Providing solid arguments will only enrage him more, since the power of reason seems to have abandoned it forevermore!!

Now seriously, you can't punch that troll in the face and he won't listen to anything you say so fuck this guy and let's not ruin this otherwise decent thread.

>>5596589
>Victor Lamme
>not a serious neuroscientist
0/100

>>5596598

>you can't punch that troll in the face

OBJECTION!

>>5596435
>this mad

>>5596622
See? You can't reply with logic.

<:^)

>>5596037
Shit bro last time I checked university was costing me 20k a year.

>>5596471
Tsk.

>>5596141

top lel