/sci/ - Science & Math

Wait, I think I have it in my head.

There was a time where a gene that induced higher level of thought presented itself in a time where it was beneficial to the primate, and allowed him/her to survive against species of greater strength/reflexes, while those whos genes only allowed the necessary amount of cognition to use reflexes ended up being dominated?

Also, is there any known gene that contributes to sapience in some way?

>>5524666
>Are there or ever were other living organisms, mammal or not, that are/were sapient like us?

No, unless you believe /x/ bullshit in which case dinosaurs evolved into lizard people who live in the core of the earth or some fuck

>What evolutionary conditions caused sapience to flourish in primates, but not in any other mammal?

Possibly sexual selection, possibly diet if you believe the aquatic ape hypothesis ancestors of homo sapiens had high fish diets. Competition between species. Humans who evolved in africa didn't necessarily have trees to hide in so if you wanted to live longer than the time it takes to ejaculate knowing how to make tools so some huge ass whatever the fuck won't eat your face is pretty helpful.

>And how long is it going to last before we end up extinct and another species is sapient

We could be extinct next week worlds chaotic, another species could never become sapient. I don't think sapience will never be a negative trait. We're sapient and we're the dominant species on the planet.

>>5524686
why couldn't another species become sapient? is it only possible in primates?

About 5-7 million years ago, the African Jungle gave way to savannah in certain places and forced Australopithecus Afarensis to drop onto the ground and develop feet, giving rise to Homo Habilis. Habilis's brain was about the same size as Afarensis's, but he had rudimentary feet and hands capable of forming simple tools. Due to the mutability of the landscape and constant movement of prey animals, a selective pressure was exerted on Habilis that forced brain size and complexity to increase in order to develop more complex hunting and foraging patterns. This continued on to develop Homo Erectus, with a much, much larger brain than Habilis. Erectus was, from the neck down, almost exactly like modern humans but had an inability to rotate its shoulder, meaning it couldn't throw spears. Just a fun fact.

>>5524688

Well we haven't found a gene or more accurately a combination of genes for sapience yet. Personally I don't think so, many other species from dolphins to octopi show intelligence. Crows also show very high intelligence including the ability to make tools. Evolutionary pressures could result in these species gaining higher intelligence over time.

>>5524688
Several cephalopod species are quite intelligent, as well as many bird species.

As far as mammals go, dolphins are pretty fucking smart. Some people have even suggested that they be considered "non-human persons".

>>5524695
All along this time, the genus Homo's gut was getting smaller because of the increase in consumption of animal material. Animal material, specifically fat, is much more nutritionally dense than plant material. Animal material, and cooking of food, is what let us develop large brains and sapience.

Look up Expensive Tissue Hypothesis now.

After Erectus, it's assumed that social peacocking was the stimulus that caused brain size to increase further in Homo.

So there you have it, the reason for sapience in primates. We were in the right place at the right time, with the right precursors for dominance of the planet. Could another species do it? Certainly, if given the right selective pressures. Have other species gained sapience? Maybe dolphins, chimps, gorillas, and elephants. The last question, though, I can't answer. Hope I helped.

ITT: idiot dawkins believers

>sexual selection
give me a break

>>5524707
>shitposting
go to bed

>>5524707

>Peacocks
>Those tails

How could someone do that? Just go on the internet and shit post?

>>5524686
1: Yeah, no, it's fact that raptors had an ideal brain for cognitive reasoning skills

2: More likely the dominance factor led to the more inginuitive of the species winning the fights, anyone wanna go find the gene for inginuity? There's without a doubt a big market for it

3: Check the first arguement. Just because things can't as thuroughly minipulate the world around them doesnt mean they can't be engineered to acheive human potential- pic is case & point

Also- Dismissing anything because of one fallacy is ineptitude at it's finest and for the sake of a brighter humanity should be punishable by death

What would have happened if humanity had a hivemind system like bees, where we all worked together?

>>5524721
>peacocks apply to every other animal!
>things just don't happen in evolution!

MUH SELFISH GENE

if only genes knew of entropy huh? oh wait, if they aren't sentient beings then why do they want to replicate? OH WAIT

if genes want to replicate then they are viruses but they aren't therefore fuck dawkins

>anyone wanna go find the gene for inginuity? There's without a doubt a big market for it
ALSO got retards like this who think there has to be a gene for fucking everything

shove your genetic determinism up your ass

>>5524727
>1: Yeah, no, it's fact that raptors had an ideal brain for cognitive reasoning skills

There's no evidence to suggest they achieved sapience

>>5524727
>2: More likely the dominance factor led to the more inginuitive of the species winning the fights, anyone wanna go find the gene for inginuity? There's without a doubt a big market for it

No, I agree with these posters >>5524695 >>5524706


Prey and predator evolutionary pressures led to increased intelligence

>>5524727
>Just because things can't as thuroughly minipulate the world around them doesnt mean they can't be engineered to acheive human potential

Fuck your bullshit as if they put a fucking dog in a bioshock big daddy suit what a load of shit

Why don't you go engineer your mom to lick my sweaty ball sack faggot

>>5524731

>>5524731
genes don't have to be a direct cause, they just have to be a catalyst for the overall flourishing of the trait. Anyway, things like intelligence are due to a collection of thousands of genes.

Sapience is also very hard to define, and further complicating matters, is very difficult to measure. You can't ask an animal if it's sapient.

We know that our pets have memories and can learn simple tricks. However, they do not recognize themselves in a mirror, and fail other sentience tests as well. Birds of prey are able to solve simple puzzles to obtain food, but also fail the mirror test. Dolphins pass the mirror test, form memories, and can solve complex puzzles (complex for a non human). They brains are also larger than ours, if I remember correctly.

>>5524731

Genes aren't intelligent no one said that you fucking retarded spastic down syndrome fucking little shit faced faggot fucker

Fucking peacocks have these big ass fucking tails and we've already observed they use them to attract females and females fuck the peacock with the biggest tail. Displays are common in nature and having a big ass stupid fucking tail isn't exactly beneficial, it's a negative draws attention and makes you more likely to be seen by predators that'll fuck you up like a nigger in harlem. Yet natural selection hasn't killed all the stupid fucking peacocks with big tails because the dumb slut female peacocks want to ride that shit with their feathery vaginas.

Eat shit

>>5524739
thousands of genes up my ass! TAKE IT DAWKINS, TAKE IT

SPERMATODE GENES OH YEAH SPERMATODE GENES REPLICATE THAT REPLICATE THIS BOOM RIGHT UP MY ASS

>>5524749
sounds like peacocks are dumb as fuck

luckily humans are humans and we make choices and stuff UNLESS YOU'RE SOME SORT OF EVO PSYCH DETERMINIST HUR MUH SEXUAL SELECTION

OH YEAH BIG ALPHA MALES DAWKINS SUCH AN ALPHA MALE GIMMIE DEM GENES UP MY ASS REPLICATE REPLICATE REPLICATE!

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

REPLICAE

GO GENES GO

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

DAWKINS KNOWS!

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

GENES UP MY ASS

IF GENES WANTED TO LIVE FOREVER THEN WHY NOT MERGE INTO ONE SUPER GENE AND ONE SUPER ORGANISM TO CONQUER THE UNIVERSE AND EVENTUALLY TRANSCEND ENTROPY

BECAUSE

MUH PHYSICS
MUH LAWS OF PHYSICS

DAWKINS REPLICATE! SEXUAL SELECTION I DON'T HAVE A CHOICE BUT TO REPLICATE REPLICATE REPLICATE!

>>5524751

Sounds like your face is dumb as fuck

>>5524761
REPLICATE

REPLICATE

REPLICATE

GENES KNOW TO REPLICATE
GENES WANT TO REPLICATE
GENES GENES GENES!

SEX SEX SEX

SPERMATODES, BABY! GENES! BABY! SEX! BABY! GENES! BABY! REPLICATION!!!!!!!!!

>>5524764

How could someone do that?
Just go on the internet and shit all over a thread?

SEXUAL SELECTON LEL

GENES HAVE RIGHTS TOO!
SEX SEX SEX

REPLICATE
REPLICATE
REPLICATE
REPLICATE

IF GENES NOT ALIVE THEN WHY DO THEY REPLICATE?

MAYBE PHYSICS CAUSES THEM TOO

BUT HOW COME PHYSICS DO SUCH A THING?

MUST BE THE EVIL CHEMICALS
CHEMICAL REACTION, BABY! REPLICATE REPLICATE REPLICATE!

TRUST ME, I'M A BELIEVER OF DAWKINS AND I TAKE ALL HIS GENES UP MY ASS!

LAWS OF GRAVITY I TELL YA, PENIS GOES IN SPERMATODES COME OUT AND BOOM GENES! BABY! GENES! BABY!

GENES TURN INTO BABY TURN INTO SPERM TURN INTO GENES TURN INTO BABY

WHAT'S WITH THAT? MUH CHEMICAL REACTIONS! DAWKINS KNOWS! SELFISH GENES! EVIL GENES! PARASITES! VIRUSES! BUT THEN CELLS!

YES CELLS ARE THE TRUE EVIL! CELLS ARE A VEHICLE FOR GENES TO DRIVE!

KILL ALL THE CELLS! THEY WANT TO REPLICATE REPLICATE REPLICATE!

NUKE THE EARTH BEFORE THEY TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE!

>>5524779
>>5524773
>>5524770
>>5524764
>>5524759
>>5524756
>>5524751

HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF PSYCHOMETRICS WE HAVE GENEMETRICS!

GENEMETRICS
GENEMETRICS
GENEMETRICS

OH YEAH

GENEMETRICS
SING IT
GENEMETRICS
GENEMETRICS

THE STUDY OF THEIR REPLICATION OH YEAH BABY ORGASM BOOM SPERM BOOM GENES BOOM BABY BOOM

BONERS
WET VAGINAS

GENE HEAVEN! SEXUAL SELECTION! OH YEAH ONLY DAWKINS KNOWS!

>>5524736
>There's no evidence to suggest they achieved sapience
Err.. that is the evidence? what do you think sapience is?
Wiki definition is Wisdom, Cognitive reasoning is the birth of that, they had superior trates for it

>No, I agree with these posters >>5524695 >>5524706 - Prey and predator evolutionary pressures led to increased intelligence

Those were earlier, then later (the later did cave paintings of various things insinuating depth of thought on the matter), irrelivant to the discussion- but relevant to the definition ;o

>last
Still case & point and you're outlining my last point

>>5524731
Genes give rise to qualities of availability- so yes, to some extent there is a gene for it, my counter argument to that is there is no gene for retardation by your scenario ~_~

>>5524811

IF GENES WANTED JUST TO REPLICATE AND ONLY TO REPLICATE THEN WHY NOT ONLY HAVE ONE AVAILABILITY! THE AVAILABILITY TO REPLICATE AND REPLICATE AND REPLICATE!


BECAUSE ONLY DAWKINS KNOWS!

REPLICATE REPLICATE REPLICATE GENES CONTROL IT ALL! REPLICATE REPLICATE

CIRCULAR REPLICATION!

SAVE US, PHYSICS! UNIVERSE! SAVE US FROM BABY TO BABY AND SPERMATODE TO SPERMATODE

FILLED WITH GENES! YEAH

>>5524811
>that pic

oh man, just imagine some parent seeing that scene with their child

>sapience

Not a scientific concept. Not testable. Not properly defined. How about you learn some science before posting uneducated irrelevant drivel on /sci/?