/sci/ - Science & Math

If you say a lot of shit you're bound to say something right from time to time. See also Nostradamus, et al.

Note, also, that civilizations had their hells shaped by the conditions they lived in. The Vikings had frozen 'hell', because it's fucking cold in Scandinavia. Christians had hot hell because it's fucking hot in the Middle East.

There can be found a grain of truth in anything if your shovel is big enough.

>>5495525
>>5495531
You're missing the point. Their statements didn't come from nothing. They must've had previous information to say such a thing.

>>5495659
Troll thread
Abandon ship

>>5495659

In volcanoes in the Mediterranean? Thera, Vesuvius?

Its like saying i guessed my post number after guessing 100 post numbers.

In order to call my guess a miracle i would have to convince someone i knew the number before it happened. Which i could do but normally i would be called an idiot.

>>5495682
Point taken.

>>5495682
This, I think I even saw a documentary about it, mentioning volcanoes

>>5495525
What is Californian hell?

>>5495525

>Christians had hot hell because it's fucking hot in the Middle East.

No they didn't. That's a medieval invention. Biblical hell is just a place apart from God.

Google the dancing wu li masters

sure OP i can explain it. There was no Jonah and he was not swallowed by any mythical dragon. so there ya go

>>5495515
Because it was no secret that the Earth gets hotter the deeper you dig.

So the logical conclusion was that there must be some source of this heat I.E hell.

They made thousands of bullshit claims and one of them turned out to be half-right (if you kind of squint at it).

Coincidence.

>>5495515
heart ≠ center

>>5495515
Dude, gravity made sense, it's only logical that that combined with "when I rub my hands together I feel fire ant fart" means that it's obviously filled with a highly compacted gas that's constantly pushing atoms in severe lack of lectrons to its rim which subsequently adding to the molten which is gassing into the center

Seriously, Volcanos are from the very bowls of earth

That all being obvious we can now conclude milk and cookies are better than just cookies or milk.

Not OP, but a guy I know just sent me this link. Thought I'd share with the rest of you. It's good for a laugh.

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/imageofgod.html

>>5496019
word

>How did Christianity get it right that the center of the earth is basically a lake of fire?
Except it isn't.
The center is a solid iron-nickel core.

And how do you get "lake of fire" from that quote?

Yeah, by that same reasoning Democritus was right about atoms.

But Jesus is still awesome. And not a fucking pedo like Mohammad or a dude who abandoned his wife and kids like Buddha.

>>5496387
I'm wondering that too. How is the inside of a whale like a lake of fire? They're talking about Jesus post-death, pre-rez.

Maybe he's conflating it with the Nicene or Apostle's Creed or something

>>5496019
No "Biblical hell" is rarely mentioned, but it is mentioned. Ditto Satan, aside from Job.

And yes, the modern conception is more medieval than Biblical, even if sin emerges as aconcept in ancient/late biblical times.

>>5496402

Jesus was a jew con-man who let things get out of hand and paid for it.

>>5496387
>>5496403
I told you guys hours ago

>>5495672
this is pretty obviously a troll thread

>>5496014
Texas

>>5496014
Kansas City during the summer.

>>5496014
traffic

>>5496472
>>5496454
>>5496439
What is Jewish hell?

>>5496480
a Palestinian State

>>5496480
Gehenna

>>5496526
Actually, the majority of Jews reject Gehenna as an afterlife. Mentions of it in that respect don't even appear until the New Testament.

>>5495525
Actually, i believe the christian hell is based on a cult that lived somewhere near some of the people in the bible
this cult worshiped a god of fire, and everything they did was seen as "evil" by the christians

>>5496547
That would be Moloch, a Canaanite deity whose followers would sacrifice children to him via throwing them in furnaces. The most notable instances of such took place in the valley of Gehenna/Gehinnom, later known as the valley of fire for that very reason. Later Christian theologians adopted it as a sort of "punishment afterlife," borrowing the name "hell" from the Norse Hel/Helheim, a location at the roots of Yggdrasil, the world tree, and substituting that word in place of the previously used Hades and Tartarus. Those two were borrowed from the Greek language and substituted in place of the Hebrew/Aramaic Sheol and Gehenna respectively, eventually evolving in to the hell we know today.

Oh absolutely.

By the way, I think Jesus' descent into the center of the Earth was figurative and not literal.

Have some Helaman 14:22, Book of Mormon

>Yea, they shall be rent in twain, and shall ever after be found in seams and in cracks, and in broken fragments upon the face of the whole earth, yea, both above the earth and beneath.

Sound like Plate Tectonics to you? Sounds like Plate Tectonics to me

>>5496580
Would you like to go down the rabbit hole? Let's go down the rabbit hole.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/3?lang=eng

This shit gets nutty, talking about the reckoning of time and time dilation the closer you get to large objects.

For more crazy shit read Doctrine and Covenants 76
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng

There's some incredible philosophy in Mormonism that gets wholeheartedly ignored by people trying to pick fights about how much the gold plates weighed and other worthless shit.

sure is science around here

Because ancient people knew a metric fuckton more than we give them credit for, and most of that can be calculated with the use of mathematics and astronomy.

People still think the ancient greeks thought that earth was flat and that the whole round idea is fairly modern.

Ancient civilizations knew a lot, and many of our modern discoveries are re-discoveries of knowledge lost during the period between the fall of rome and the beginning of the renaissance

>>5496658
You know what's really cool? We still have no idea how the Romans cured their concrete underwater

>>5496663
Oh, in before someone says

'but we know how to cure concrete underwater'

sure, but we still don't really know how THEY did it

>>5496658
so, what if, say there's some worldwide catastrophe that makes everything stored virtually be deleted
would that mean we'd lose everything we know again?

>>5495515
>"three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
>"How did Christianity get it right that the center of the earth is basically a lake of fire?"
wat? that wasnt even mentioned in the quote.

also, even back then people knew about volcanoes...they're kinda hard to miss. so if you see it spewing ash, lava and fire out into the air it's kinda a given that it came from underground.

also, fuck off with your shitty religion trolls on my /sci/

>>5496669

Who cares? It was some reaction, almost certainly one we already know. It's not as if curing concrete underwater is some mystical art.

>>5496698

>>5496810

>>5496863
nice! fucking saved

>>5496869
>infantile cartoon

>>5495515

buddhism talked of quantum mechanics, and islam talked of relativity and the orbits of the moon and planets.

and the norse? the norse spoke of trolls...

>>5496863
agnosticism = not claiming to know about something without evidence

ie, science

>>5496873
>agnostic detected

>>5496878
agnostics are so edgy

>>5496863
>irrelevant
i'm an agnostic atheist

i don't *know* whether god exists, but i *believe* he doesn't

your confusion is between knowledge and belief.

>>5496885
>>5496885
>agnostic atheist

>>5496873
ah, the 'computer-games-are-anti-intellectual' guy
welcome back
:D

>>5496412

no, he was a talented conman who refused to relinquish his con, and was murdered for it, and then thousands of dickwads decided to make the trolling EPIC about 60 years after he died

i respect jesus. its his followers i cant stand.

>>5496887
>selection bias

>>5496888
>i respect jesus. its his followers i cant stand.
and that statement remains true if you substitute the word 'jesus' for 'justin bieber'

fucking bieber fans piss me right off

>>5496889

>>5496893
troll harder faggot

>>5496894
no troll here

they were all atheists

>>5496894

>>5496897
>selection bias

don't make me say it again

>>5496898
>the best modern video games revolve around religion

ok, i'm convinced. where do i get baptised?

>>5496899

>>5496905

>>5496904
>more selection bias

i don't think you know what this means

>>5496897
>some atheists were murderers, therefore all atheists are bad
yeah, nah

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division

i can turn that shit around: religious crusades, jihads, witchhunts.
even fucking irishfags killing each other over which fucking version of christianity is right (spoiler: neither!)

some humans are murderers, regardless of religion, or lack thereof.
(except jains and buddas. they're cool)

>>5496904
assuming (inevitably wrongly) that you are not trolling, it would be easy to find mass killers whose killing was centrally motivated by their religion.

>>5496909

>>5496909
actually, this one might be more accurate:
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

>>5496912

>>5496909
atheist body-count is higher

>>5496914
hitler liked dogs, are dogs now bad?

>>5496914
that picture might be false.
anything else to back it up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

>>5496919
see
>>5496909

>>5496919
Yes, dogs are bad.

>>5496918
>that fucking image
all of my wat

and wtf has sam harris got to do with that? he's not even quoted in that.

>>5496923

>>5496918
>citation needed

>>5496930
he is a douche. did you see him on Bill Mahr's show?

>>5495515
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/buddhism_and_the_brain/

Sorry Christfags, I can't hear you over the neuroscience and Buddhism relation.

Buddhists: 1
Christshits: 0

>>5496946

>>5496951
fuck dawkins

>>5496948
Someone doesn't know what a theory in science is, and ironic shitposting is still shitposting

gb2
>>>/b/

>>5496939
>he is a douche
fuck you, i like him

>>5496956
but atheism is it's own religion

>>5496953
Oh yeah, does Varg burn down Buddhist temples and expose them as the filthy Arab-in-denial religion is it?

Didn't think so
Buddhism: 2
Christniggers: 0

>Also
>2013
>still using le funny rage faces xD
>>>/r/funny

>>5496955

>>5496956
You are a douch too.

>>5496960
varg's real name is Christian, your argument is invalid

checkmate atheists

>>5496960
Buddhists were responsible for the genocide against the Tamils in Sri Lanka

>>5496958
>atheism is it's own religion
and 'off' is a tv channel? and 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby?
fuck off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPWMvKH3tQ

>>5496968
look at this rabid fundamentalist atheists emblazon his flesh with the symbol of his religion

>>5496964
>religiontroll.jpg
hah, these are actually pretty funny

>>5496965
>not embracing Vikernes as your lord and savior
>20.13 * 10^2

>>5496968
If atheism is like "not stamp collecting", then why do people waste their life making hours and hours of youtube videos telling us how they don't collect stamps and how stamp collectors are stupid?

Check-fucking-mate

>>5496975
because stamp collectors are so annoying

>>5496976
and furthermore, those that worship at the alter of science can not be troubled to use the most up to date atomic model

>>5496978
And that's why you think it makes you look clever if you try to be more annoying than them?

>>5496976
Wow that guy sucks, he doesn't even have any S, P or D shell orbitals in his tattoo
1/10
wouldn't associate with

>>5496981
>you
u wot m8?

>>5496981
i don't think anything like that.

why do you make shit up, religiotard>

I'm going to dump a load of the anti-atheism ones on /r/atheism when i have finished creating an account, anyone care to join me?

>>5496987
I'm no religiontard, faggit. Thanks for showing us how atheists need fallacies to defend themselves.

>>5496988
>typical atheist

>>5496990
i'm no atheist, moron. thanks for showing us how non-religiotards need to respond to posts

>>5496992
5/5 burdy gud

>>5497001

>>5497003

>>5497004

>>5497005

>>5496998
>atheists got told.jpg
wrong caption, seeing as he sentiment in that quote is the same as in: >>5496956

also, saved

>>5497011

>>5497012

>>5497028
>tolerance
George Bush snr said atheists cannot be patriotic citizens. I guess he was going against Christ.

alllriiiigt shit on atheists general

>>5497044

>>5495525

Actually, hell wasn't mentioned until Jesus' appearance. Evangelists and apologists will contort the text to make it seem like it's mentioned earlier, but the facts aren't on their sides.

Hell, in Jesus' sermons, was said to be Gehenna. Now, whether he was talking about a literal or a figurative hell, I personally am not sure. But Gehenna was a trash heap outside of Bethlehem where refuse was burned.

I think that indicates that he was being metaphorical or allegorical as he usually was, but that's just me.

>>5497050
was he being metaphorical when he said "God"?

Study: Atheists distrusted as much as rapists

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-10/religion-atheism/51777612/1

you mad gaythiests?

>>5496402

>like Buddha

Eh. Gautama isn't really supposed to be portrayed as a great man, the way Mohammad and Jesus were. Not to mention that, but he wasn't divine. So, his abandonment of his family really doesn't mean so much, since the only thing that he said or did that's worth mentioning is his pathway to enlightenment and how we're supposed to attain it.

>>5497054
nope, he referred to a prime mover

>>5497056
supposedly rained tea when he was born

sounds divine to me

>>5496876

>buddhism talked of quantum mechanics,

What

>>5496883

I don't think I've seen an agnostic actually post any of that.

atheism is a tool jews use to control western civilization

>>5497060
well, i'm ok with this, as a prime mover could be almost anything.

>>5497060
But how do we know if that was a metaphor or not?

>>5497066
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

>>5497064

>>5497067
>interpretation

that's what i thought.

>>5496975

Edward Current, stop using 4chan.

>>5497021

How can so much work be put into such an obvious lie? So perfectly written, it should be considered an act of terrorism.

"[The Geologic column] is not found intact on the geologic strata anywhere on Earth, and is often contradicted in sequence by actual field studies"

No, it's not.
No, It is not.
Where did you get that idea from?
Site a source, please.

I know you didn't write it, OP. And I know you've posted it as a joke. I'm just talking to the author of this slander.

>>5497071
the pope is god's vicar on earth

he speaks with his voice

>>5497075
carbon dating is a sham as well

>>5497070

>>5497076
how do we know this?

even if Jesus explicitly said it was true, it might have been one of his metaphors

>>5497054

Probably not. By all indications, he really was a deeply religious person. But then again, the text has been put through so many different committees, written, rewritten and has seen so many different translations over the years that you basically have to pick up a degree in order to guess at what the original text said.

And even THEN you don't really know, because the first gospel was written thirty years after Jesus was supposedly killed.

>>5497079

>>5497061

Yeah, you're a troll, but for other people's benefit:

Gautama Buddha is revered simply as a great teacher. The word 'Buddha' refers to someone who discovered the path to enlightenment without instruction. Buddhism saw religious elements come into it when it cross-bred with Hinduism, which took Gautama Buddha as one of the incarnations of Vishnu.

>>5497083

>>5497084
keep moving those goalposts

>>5497086

>>5497080

Aaaaactually...

If you read the text, without any interpretation or anything like that, there's nothing to indicate that a) Jesus appointed Peter as the pope or b) that the pope has a direct line to god.

Of course, the Catholics still believe both of those things, but neither of them has any textual evidence backing it up.

>>5497076
fuck yea, battlepope

when he's not saying mass, he's out kicking ass

>>5497089
Matthew 18:18

Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

>>5497088

>>5497094
sick burn

>>5497094

John 11:35

>>5497099
>John 11:35

2/10
made me look it up

>>5497101

>>5497094
what does this have to do with appointing a pope

I should´ve never turned my back on jesus, welcome back in my life christianity, these /sci/enceautists don´t even lift....

>>5497108
on this rock i shall build my church

>>5497125

That phrase doesn't appear in the citation you gave, and it still doesn't prove anything. Only by a very strained interpretation can it mean that Peter was to become the Pope, and only through sheer invention can it then be said that Peter has a direct line to God.

>>5496918

>>5497128
>only through sheer invention can it then be said that Peter has a direct line to God


perhaps you should read it in context

>>5497132

I have.

>>5497130
holodomor

unintentional

>atheists in charge of facts

also see>>5496904

>>5497133
the you obviously know jesus was talking to peter, the first pope. peter had the power to make these decisions on behalf of god

>>5497130
pol pot, jim jones etc

>>5497137

Well. That just makes sense.

Can't argue with that.

>>5497130
>implying Stalin even got to 30 million
>implying you should leave it as Chirstians, and not count every religion ever

>>5497138
>>5497136
Chirstianity alone is still highger.

Stay mad.

>>5497139
you really can't. these thing have been interpreted this way for a very long time

>>5497144
>Stay mad.

>>5497144

>>5497152
Yeah, because I totally defended North Korea or communism there. As the other guy said, I picked the higher estimate possible of deaths for communism. One religion still outclasses them.

>>5497144
>still highger

>highger.

>>5497154
please show me the data relating to deaths from the muslim instigated crusades

>>5497157
>Arguing semantics

I take it as you being ok with the rest.

>>5497159
They're in the pic, if you look closely.

>>5497130

>Hitler was a christian, and therefore his genocides were clearly motivated by religion
>Native Americans were motivated purely by relgion

>>5497161
how closely?

if religion is so great, why is Jesus such a dick?

Checkmate, Christians.

>>5497166

atheism is the most anti-intellectual phenomenom of the modern age

>>5497174
There are three possibilities for the the existence of the universe:

1. It is Uncaused
2. Self-caused
3. Caused

The universe cannot be uncaused since it exists.

It cannot be self-caused since it would have to first "not exist" in order to need causing.

Yet, it would have to exist in order to have the ability to cause.

It's absurd to conclude that the universe was in a state of existence and non-existence in order to cause it's own existence.

Therefore, the universe must have had a cause by another source.

I once heard a scientist say that he believed the universe was uncaused, and has always existed. My question is that is if it's acceptable to have an uncaused universe, why would it not be acceptable to have a creator that is uncaused? When a member of the scientific community argues for the eternal existence of the universe, do they not commit the same fallacy as the theologian who agues for the eternal existence of God?

>>5497163
scumoftheearth.jpg

>>5497180
Then he cause of the universe has three possibilities:

1. It is Uncaused
2. Self-caused
3. Caused

The universe cannot be uncaused since it exists....

etc etc....

See, your conclusions can apply to any cause of the cause ad infinitum, so your conclusions about 1 or 2 must be wrong, and if they're wrong, then there's no reason to apply them to the cause of the universe rather than the universe itself.

>>5497036
lol

>>5497196
so causality has broken down?

>someone inform the president

>>5497196

read the last paragraph, troglodyte

>>5497201
Causality is an aspect of time. Before the big bang, time did not exist, and hence need not be causal. We live in a zero energy universe, which means technically, in the grand scheme of things, we don't exist, we're only the temporary creation of negative and positive energy, but on the whole we are nothing.

>>5497203
lol

>>5497203

Anyone who believes a word of Zeitgeist isn't worth responding to.

>>5497207
whatever you say, Nietzsche

>>5497210

Your quotes wrong.

Dostoevsky said, "Without God everything is permitted."

>>5497213
meh

translation, watdya gonna do?

>>5497214

The translation in your picture doesn't actually mean anything, when what Dostoevsky was talking about was his belief that God is the source and reason for human morality.

Look. This entire discussion is rendered moot. We all know that God does not exist, because Pepsi Vanilla has been discontinued and isn't likely to be brought back.

It's pointless to even argue.

>>5497210
>stalin is example of atheism
In that case, the pedopriests and the inquisition are a great example of the power of christ.

>>5497216
it's in a novel, wtf you smokin

>>5497216

Yeah and Smerdyakov is the moral idiot of The Brothers Karamazov.

Theists confirmed for using nuanced criticism of their stupidity as ammunition because they think the criticism is actually support.

>>5495515
I ain't reading the whole thread. But I think it is worth menttioning that those hindus/buddhist scriptures, the vranas,vanas or somethin glike that described quantum mechanics and string theory. They were also used by tesla to aid developing his theories.

>>5497225

It's really frustrating when it comes to the great authors. I mean, you can accept flawed thinking when it comes from someone like CS Lewis, but when it comes from Tolstoy and Dostoevsky...

Fortunately, it doesn't hamper the quality of their work. Despite the fact that Crime and Punishment hinges on a deeply flawed understanding of morality, it's still one of the greatest novels ever written.

And damn. I still need to pick up a copy of the Brothers Karamazov.

>>5497235

>>5497233

Buddhism is not interchangeable with Hinduism, the Vedas have no impact on Buddhism, and Buddhism also has absolutely nothing to do with either Quantum Mechanics or String Theory, despite what snake oil salesmen like Depak Chopra say.

>>5497238

Dammit. I lost my magnifying lens.

>>5497241
dropped my monocle in my tea cup
would troll with it again 7/10

>>5497238
Fuck. I used to like that guy.

>>5497238

Embiggened.

>>5497281

His 'refutation' of Hume's argument about miracles really sucked ass.

>>5497261

>>5497288

He's just not a very deep thinker in general.

I mean, Mere Christianity is much better written, and a lot less intellectually insulting than other apologetics out there, but it's still really...poor.

I just don't see how he's such a well respected figure when it comes to his apologetics.

>>5497269
it's ok maybe when you graduate high school you will realize how incredibly narrow-minded that sounds

>>5497213
>>5497216
both of you are missing the point. did you actually read bros. karamazov? that quote is not just some deuce dropped on the reader, it's one side of a rather heated argument.

>character a: "i think this is true"
>character b: "i think this is false"

"i think this is false" -dostoyevsky

that is what you morons are doing

>>5497296

I actually haven't read Karamazov. It's the next book I plan to buy, but I've resolved to not buy any more books until I've finished the books that I currently own.

I do think the quote is totally inaccurate, and I think his understanding of morality is very flawed from my reading of Crime and Punishment, but...what is the context of the quote?