/sci/ - Science & Math

>>5438864
Are you hoping she'll die from her cancer for some reason?

>>5438864
Chemotherapy is so far the only treatment with valid scientific evidence.

>>5438868

Check this shit out OP

http://www.cannabisinternational.org/articles.php

>>5438864

>mfw americlaps willing to eat donkey shit to try to cure cancer instead of paying for chemo

>friends cousin
how about you let her and her family fucking decide for themselves?
You're not even family, how can you say something like
>I really don't want her to go through chemo
I mean how arrogant are you?
she's not your daughter, hell, she isn't even in your friends' familiar nucleus.

Why don't Dr.'s pull together 100 grand from donations and Naturopathic Universities and get willing participates from different countries, bring them to america, confirm they have cancer from multiple clinics and then begin Gerson Therapy like treatments. Start doing Double blind test and publish them and bam! Now we know for sure if it works.

Is this really so hard?

A cancerous cell begins as a mutation in the genetic sequence of a healthy cell, that causes it to express in an unhealthy way or go out of control. Many cancers form tumors, results of these cells dividing rapidly and massing, these can be benign, staying in one place in the body, or malignant, with cells that are capable of splitting from the main source and continuing to divide.

As a mutation in the genetic code, this is impossible to correct through conventional means, cancer is not a "sickness" in the normal sense, but rather a development of the body.

With this in mind, chemotherapy, which stops all cell production in the body through careful use of poisons, is the only effective known treatment for cancers.
The hope is that the quickly dividing cancer cells will take more damage than your slowly dividing normal cells, and recede.

However, other quickly dividing cells will die as well, such as those in the immune system and hair, so it is very important to keep someone undergoing chemotherapy as healthy as possible. The body will also recognize their is a foreign contaminate in it's system, and will constantly try to evict it, this results in sickness for the patient.

At any rate, \i wish her good luck.

>>5438878

I meant to clarify!
It's not just me, it's my friend, his mom(victims sister) his dad and I.

Also we are just exploring other ways of treatment dick!

>>5438875

Gerson therapy isn't even legal in the US. Lots of people that do Gerson like cancer treaments are in different countries.

What's important is that everything possible is done to kill her cancer. If you want to experiment with alternative medicines do so carefully and in addition to what her doctors tell her to do. Not instead of what the doctors recommend.

If the doctors say she needs chemo, then she needs chemo. Keeping her away from chemo could kill her. Chemo is no fun, but if it's the best chance you have to save her life then take it.

Remember, Steve Jobs had a form of cancer that when detected early, as it was, is highly treatable. If he had gone with conventional medicine he'd almost certainly have survived. Instead he did some internet research and decided he knew more then the entire established medical profession and he treated himself with alternative medicines... it didn't go so well.

>>5438880
Then the tests show no link and these guys loose all the money their making off ignorant people.

What do you guys think of Dr. Burzynski?

Does anyone have any experience with his clinic?

>>5438887
>his mom(victims sister)
so the victim is your aunt and not your cousin?

>>5438893
yeah this.

Do eet.
If she was an old lady I'd understand.

>>5438901

The Gerson Institute is a non profit organization...

>>5438906

No sorry.

The one who has the cancer is his moms sisters daughter so my friends cousin.

>>5438866
10/10

>>5438875
America is one of the most "alternative cure"-resisting countries on earth

Why don't you want her to have chemo?

>>5438928

Well not just chemo but the radiation combo. It just sucks man, even with chemo and radiation she still has a 1/3 chance to die within the next 5 years. She's going to begin the treatment soon. Usually people are really slow and get into that "chemo brain" thing.

I know chemo is the only thing that can help that we know of, but fuck man.

Here are some alternative medicines that we are investigating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_cancer_treatments#Under_investigation

>>5438942
It sucks. but life isn't fair.
lend her support.
if you feel bad, it's nothing compared to what she does.

>>5438875
>Amerifags are slaves to big pharma
>Amerifags eat up alternative medicines
At least get you're stereotypes some consistency.

Immediately make her get rid of her microwave, it won't cure her cancer but it'll stop it from getting exacerbated.

>>5438948

>>5438952

>tfw when watching this on netflix right now

>>5438952
>le reddit gold XD

>>5438948

>that picture

fake and gay

You know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

>>5438948
Did they heat the control water using a stove for comparison and did they not tell the person tending to the plants which was from which? It wouldn't surprise me if they dumped hot water from the microwave onto the plant to 'prove' their insane idea.

>>5438948
>>5438948
http://www.snopes.com/science/microwave/plants.asp

Do you even internet?

>>5438948
Have you never once grown identical plants under identical conditions and had vastly different results? Happens all the time. Even with clones from the same plant, given the exact same amount of sun and water and soil, can yield vastly different results.

So even if this image really happened and wasn't say, some dude urinating in one of the pots to try and prove some point about "evil" microwaves on the internet, it would still prove nothing on it's own.

Show me a larger sample size of plants, in a study conducted by some legitimate entity rather then a random guy over the internet.

I could easily do this, but switch the labels around, and trick people into thinking microwaved water is healthier.

FURTHERMORE if the microwave is having an effect then the effect is to kill off bacteria, some of said bacteria perhaps were beneficial to that particular plants growth.

>>5438942
So do you really want her to avoid chemo, or are you just looking for things to supplement it?
I'm sure you know that her 1 in 3 chance of dying will shoot up to near unity without chemo and radiation. Alternative medicine can interact with conventional medicine, so don't take a "it can't hurt to try" view on things; it very much can.

>>5438971
> needing snopes.com to recognize that a study done involving two plants is not scientific in any way

>>5438986
>Alternative medicine can interact with conventional medicine, so don't take a "it can't hurt to try" view on things; it very much can.
good point

I said this in another thread but
>People just believe what they want to believe
>Then they cherrypick some "evidence" like some youtube videos or blogs or threads on some conspiracy forum to support what they've already emotionally decided to believe. As long as it somehow makes some kind of vague sense, and they want to believe it, they'll believe it, even if it can be proven wrong.
>And then with an incredible capacity for ignorance, nothing anyone says or proves otherwise will sink in.
>It is one of humanities biggest faults, and it's so frustrating.

Basically at the end of the day, if OP wants to believe that there's an alternative to chemo that will cure her cancer naturally without problems, then he'll find some vague evidence to back that up. The truth doesn't matter, all that matters to people is they find some way to believe whatever they want to believe. And in the process someone might die from it.

>>5438948

Dude if you are actually going to post shit about non ionizing radiation make sure its reputable.

http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm

http://www.next-up.org/pdf/Magda_Havas_EHS_Biological_Effets_Electricity_Emphasis_Diabetes_Multiple_Sclerosis.pdf

http://microwavenews.com/news-center/unified-theory-magnetic-field-action

http://www.heartmdinstitute.com/v1/wireless-safety/scientific-research

http://www.electrosmogprevention.org/public-health-alert/wifi-dangers/wifi-emfs-electrosensitivity-es-ehs-physiologically-explained-at-last/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/75637518/Dr-Stephen-Genuis-Health-Impact-Paper

http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Blake_Levit-Henry_Lai.pdf

http://www.smartmeterdangers.org/index.php/smart-meter-research/203-non-thermal-effects


http://www.scribd.com/doc/89584338/Disturbance-of-Immune-System-by-EM-Fields-Dr-Olle-Johansson-2009

http://www.smartmeterdangers.org/index.php/smart-meter-research/196-electromag-sens-novel-neuro-syn

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=116


I can keep going if you'd like?

>>5438986

I would rather her not do it but I guess theres no choice. Also, yea without chemo and shit it would be like 95% fatality rate.

I guess we can talk to the Doctors

>>5438995

OP here

No that's not the point of the thread at all.
I know chemo/radiation/sugery is the only thing to date we know FOR SURE can help. I started this because I already knew that and was looking for people with experience that have treated or helped cure there cancer with alternative means. Thanks for your 2 cents though I totally agree with everything you said.

>>5438980
>Even with clones from the same plant, given the exact same amount of sun and water and soil, can yield vastly different results.

>rejecting determinism
>>>/x/

>>5438948
I was joking, guys. Yes the microwave thing is retarded, so is getting alternative medicine. It was supposed to be obviously absurd. If that didn't get through, apologies. The microwave plants picture used to be a pretty common source of humor on here, but it's been a while since I've been on /sci/.

>>5438882

Do we know what things cause mutations in the cells in the first place?

>>5439012
lol ok i see your point. i should have said

>Even with clones from the same plant, given seemingly the exact same amount of sun and water and soil, can yield vastly different results.

determinism isn't absolute however, but for the sake of something as large as a plant it might as well be it would seem. at least on the scale of subatomic particles heidenburgs uncertainty principle comes into play

>>5439016
>It was supposed to be obviously absurd. If that didn't get through, apologies.
the reason it didn't get through wasn't your fault. but rather because so so many people these days truly believe the dumbest pseudo-scientific conspiracy bullshit

>>5439022
>at least on the scale of subatomic particles heidenburgs uncertainty principle comes into play
that's not what causes the fluctuations in results.

>>5439026
i know that, thats why i specifically said
>determinism isn't absolute however, BUT for the sake of something as large as a plant it might as well be it would seem.

i was suggesting that for all effects and purposes heidenburgs uncertainty principle is something that exists on the subatomic level and isn't really a factor in anything anywhere near as large as a plant.

Alternative "medicine" kills. You know that guy from the Veastie that died of cancer of the saliva gland ? He could have lived if he had turned to conventional treatment.

You see, doctors are scientists, and scientists like discovering new things, and they especially like publishing their discoveries and sharing them with scientists who peer review them. Most alternative "medicine" practitioners can't name an organ of the endocrine system, let alone have they ever been to medical school.

" Here is the cure for cancer !"
Cancer is a generic term describing a vast spectrum of hundreds of diseases all involving cells mutating incontrolably. Various cancers affect various cells such as: nervous (neuroblastoma), bone and muscle (sarcoma)... Besides, there are too many variables in the equation: each individua has their own specific physiology which has to be taken into account by Doctors when determining treatment.
The idea of a single, 200-in-one, cure for all 200-400 types of cancer, is therefore BS.

"Big pharma tries to poison us and conceals hidden, natura cures !"
Generally, people become Doctors, nurses and pharmacists because they want to help people. If miracle cures do pop up, the company behind it's discovery, could make a lot of money from it. Why would they hide it ?
Not every thing natural is "good" for you. Radon, a noble, radioactive gaz, is natural. Belladona is natural too...

Chemotherapy-wise, chemotherapy may not be a wak in the park; but it is survivable. Sure she might lose her hair, but it will grow back and tends to grow back thicker, stronger and some times a different color and texture. Yes, she might have nausea, but Doctors can pescribe her with pills to prevent this side effect.
Chemotherapy is, however, a lot more confortable than dying of cervical cancer, which tends to be a slow and painful death.

Do not trust alternative "medicine" testimonies; they could be written by the cranks behind them themselves.

WE ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE NAO

>>5439017
lots of things, everything.
sun, eating, chemicals, viruses, you fucking name it.

>>5439032
>clearly never taken a QM class

smoke weed erry day

>>5439082
you're right, i pretty much just read the wikipedia article on uncertainty principle.

>>5439089

THCa=/THC

>>5439082
so could you explain how i'm wrong? i'd very much appreciate it

why dont you do both?

marijuana should treat the symptoms of chemo very well, at the same time it supposedly shows promise to select and kill cancer cells, as well as shrinking tumors in other ways like constricting blood flow in the vessels supplying blood to it

>>5439110
This is my first post ITT.

First of all, it's Heisenberg. Secondly, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states "the more precisely the position of some particle is determined, the less precisely its momentum can be known, and vice versa", which obviously means that it's completely unrelated to the discussion at hand.

Why you even posit that non-determinism is a factor here just baffles me.

The main reason why patients take cannabis is for its ability to reduce chronic pain. For those suffering from conditions such as cancer, multiple sclerosis or AIDS, cannabis relieves pain and the mental anxiety that comes with constant body pain. For patients dealing with chronic pain and end-of-life care, cannabis also can reduce anxiety and increase feelings of well-being.

Desprez, a molecular biologist, spent decades studying ID-1, the gene that causes cancer to spread. Meanwhile, fellow researcher Sean McAllister was studying the effects of Cannabidiol, or CBD, a non-toxic, non-psychoactive chemical compound found in the cannabis plant. Finally, the pair collaborated, combining CBD and cells containing high levels of ID-1 in a petri dish.

"What we found was that his Cannabidiol could essentially 'turn off' the ID-1,"

i say do both

also, its bullshit that CBD is non-psychoactive, its an antipsychotic with sedative effects

>>5439178
by both i mean chemo and weed since apparently weed treats symptoms of cancer and helps stop the disease

and every study i have seen that uses cannabis to try and cure cancer inconsequentially gets the person really fucking high

>>5439199

Well yea, when you have to decarboxylate the THCA it makes the THC psychoactive but also waste a lot of the medicinal benefits because heating minimizes the amount of cannabinoids you receive.

In OPs post that doctor explains why juicing cannabis is far better than smoking it for the anti-inflammatory effects. Now if you want to use it as a narcotic to deal with pain and nausea go ahead but make sure you're juicing it everyday.

>>5439243
juicing will get you high as balls man

when you smoke weed, you quickly reach a leveled off high and cant get any higher

when you ingest it, that limit is much much higher

>>5439298
actually i guess not, thats surprising since it still kills pain

i thought tylenol was considered psychoactive

>>5439005
You still haven't explained WHY you don't want her to have chemo. This isn't a rhetorical question; I just want to know.

>>5439430
hasnt it killed people?

>>5439545
Cancer kills more people. And depending on the type of cancer you can have over 95% five year survival rate(aka cure rate) with modern chemo and radiotherpay.

Cervical is unfortunately pretty bad prognosis wise still, depending on stage of course.

Also, carefull with supplements and alternate treatements. For example: anti-oxidants can severely reduce the effectiveness of radiotherapy. Grapefuit juice can severly increase or decrease effectiveness of chemo, various other herbal extracts can be even worse. Say taking a green tea extract: that stresses your kidneys, combine it with chemo that does the same, and you might be inviting a kidney failure.
Always consult doctors before jumping in on wild home-brew combination therapies

Hello jew loving sci cunts

I personally cured my asthma with one of these pseudoscience cures

This exact one but in 35% - it stopped my asthma the next day, while I had to do asthma medication once or twice a day, mostly twice - i never have had to do it ever again since using this method in the article for about 25 days, although it really erased it in the second day

Article I used; http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_industryweapons33.htm#CHAPTER_THREE_


(this works for 99 percent of diseases (especially cancer) read the article)

>>5439298

You are retarded...

The reason why you you smoke weed is because you are converting THCA into THC

The reason why you BAKE brownies is because you convert THCA (non-psychoactive) into THC(psychoactive).

Eat an ounce of bud and tell me if you get high.
You won't because it has to be THC bound into a lipid to have any effect. The only thing eating raw cannabis will do is give your body phyto-cannabinoids, vitamins, minerals, and enzymes.

>>5439430

I don't want her to use chemo just like I don't want her to have cancer? What do you not understand you are killing your fucking body.. but theres nothing else you can do so that's that.

>>5439615

Dude what??

No you have a 60 or so percent chance dude.

http://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/all.html#survival

I'm getting my info from the NCI
Where are you getting 95%? That's bullshit.

>>5439615

Ok you are clueless

For one
>And depending on the type of cancer you can have over 95% five year survival rate(aka cure rate) with modern chemo and radiotherpay.

What an absurd claim
>>5439794

And two
>Also, carefull with supplements and alternate treatements. For example: anti-oxidants can severely reduce the effectiveness of radiotherapy. Grapefuit juice can severly increase or decrease effectiveness of chemo, various other herbal extracts can be even worse. Say taking a green tea extract: that stresses your kidneys, combine it with chemo that does the same, and you might be inviting a kidney failure.
Always consult doctors before jumping in on wild home-brew combination therapies

I haver never seen any info that grapefruit juice can do anything but boost chemo effects

http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/11367/20120808/grapefruit-juice-cancer-absorption-sirolimus-ketoconazole.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/08/07/grapefruit-juice-chemotherapy.html

do chemo or let your friend die naturally or with the aid of pain killers. There's only 2 options there is no alternative for curing cancer.

for your imfomation it's more painful/distressing to die of cancer than to do chemo. Humans aren't fit to deal with certain death and despair. the only active ingrediient in canabbis is THC which is a pain killer not a cure. The placebo effect might give a few more weeks of life, hardly worth daving you may as well die right now

>>5439801
>>And depending on the type of cancer you can have over 95% five year survival rate(aka cure rate) with modern chemo and radiotherpay.

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-info/cancerstats/survival/latestrates/survival-statistics-for-the-most-common-cancers

>>5439545
And do you think it's more likely to kill her than save her?

>>5439615
>>5439920
no, but if cancer kills you, and chemotherapy ruins your quality of life and might kill you, it makes some people consider other options

im not saying i agree, i was just answering his question

sometimes doctors and nurses will suggest not to do treatments when the probability of success is low and/or it would ruin the little time they probably have left

thats only in the most desperate situations though, and it sounds like this one is still far from that

>>5440169
Stage IV cancer patients sometimes get recommended to stop chemo because their prognosis is so awful. It's basically a "Enjoy what time you have left" decision instead of fighting until the end in a painful way.

This is an ethical debate in countries with national health systems because chemotherapy is often immensely expensive, and that money could likely be used better elsewhere rather than on a tiny, tiny chance it can bring someone back.

>Alternative Medicine
From Tim Minchin, probably the most elegant way I've heard it said:
"Alternate medicine, by definition, has either been proved not to work or not been proved to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proved to work?

Medicine."

Only attempt them after discussing them with your doctor and making sure they would not interfere with what treatments he has planned. As a pharmacologist, I'll also throw this in: If the industry knew how to cure cancer in a cheap, easy way, it would've been found by now. The idea of "the magic cucumber that science ignores!" is just hysterically funny and typical of the "science is evil" cult.

>>5439801
Grapefruit juice is an odd thing that pops up in the pharmaceutical community regularly as it often interferes with how a number of drugs work. Honestly if you're on a large course of drugs you should probably just avoid the stuff.

There are a number of polyphenols that are available for human consumption that have shown efficacy against cancer progression in vitro, animals, and sometimes humans.

Look up various compounds such as curcumin, resveratrol and quercetin. Biochemically, they've been widely shown to have antinflammatory or anticancer properties through various cellular mechanisms (curcumin through PPARgamma and NFkB, resv through SIRT1/mTOR, quercetin through Nrf2).

I research these compounds as a grad student. You can get a bottle of each for about $20 from a vitamin shop.

Probably insufficient to treat cancer alone with these, mostly because the bioavailability isn't as strong as a synthetic drug. That being said, pharmaceutical companies are working on drugs that target the same molecules so it's a step in the right direction.

don't know if this has been posted already, but it made me think of the Tim Minchin quote:

>Alternative medicine is medicine that has either not been proven to work, or has been proven not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine.