/sci/ - Science & Math

forgot link to an article about adapting new sensations.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/esp.html

this is the website of the research team from the previous link:
http://feelspace.cogsci.uni-osnabrueck.de/

bump, anyone seeing this ?

i guess ill have to open a thread at different times then =/

>>5097491
>7491
>apparently the human brain can adapt to many new/more complex se
So the brain is limited by its senses?

>>5097578
No, no. I'm interested. /sci/ is just a really slow board. If you type something to do with atheism or religion you would get responses instantly.

What's the point of seeing wider wavelengths? Like, why would we ever want to see ultraviolet?

>>5097584
Why not?

>>5097580
thats a whole different question, but i thank you for your attention

>>5097584
a good question indeed !
for example, if light pollution or power draw from street lights is still a problem in maybe 20 years then i can see the uses of a retinal implant. if you are feeling like it you could abandon all light sources in your home altogether and still see clearly.

>>5097595
>thats a whole different question, but i thank you for your attention


I think it's completely relevant. You stated:
>apparently the human brain can adapt to many new/more complex sensations

So, the brain is capable of experiencing 'sensations' that are beyond the cope of our senses? Have I interpreted this correctly? Is it therefore limited by its only means of information input but is capable of processing more than is being received?

but of course, why wouldnt you want to have more senses ?
just read the article linked in my second post.

indeed, the times we live or will live in are incredibly exciting

>>5097600
>cope

*scope

>>5097600
ah no, sorry about that. apparently i wasn't explicit enough. sensations as in 'input from senses', nothing more.
but to answer that:
the brain isnt limited to its senses, the senses are limited to the brain (see human echolocation)

although there are also limits on the senses, of course.
i was just saying that the brain is capable of integrating much much more than just stuff we are born with.

>>5097491
within a few centuries we'll be able to design brains and bodies with the capacity to intuit broader aesthetic and logic (eg, broader electromagnetic spectrum, native quantum and relativistic comprehension).

Of course humans are capable of receiving and understanding more input... your brain teaches itself and adapts, it is only limited by what's input.

A fun experiment I recall awhile back is that if you attach a device to a mamals leg which gives it very light feedback in the direction of North, after a year or two when you remove the device, they will still always be able to direct you north. The brains just being trained to pick up on things it never tried to before.

>>5097615
>the senses are limited to the brain
Oh, how disappointing. I was excited for a second.

So the brain is limited as to what it can process from our sensory input but their is a way of expanding this? I assume that's the case from your statement:
>the brain is capable of integrating much much more than just stuff we are born with.

Which seems a little antithetical in comparison to:
>senses are limited to the brain

Sorry, I'm a little confused (perhaps due to it being late and all). Are you saying that the brain, at its current stage, is limited in processing the broader sensory input that can be received BUT can be altered to process this broader range?

>>5097627
>Of course humans are capable of receiving and understanding more input

But see: >>5097615
>the brain isnt limited to its senses, the senses are limited to the brain

>>5097633
Well pretty soon you will be able to do anything a computer can do. They already make silk circuits that disolve onto your brain... if placed there at a young age, you will grow and be able to interface with a computer completely naturally.

A true bionic person isn't far away.

>>5097641
>your brain gets hacked

Truly dangerous times...

>>5097649

Possibly. I think the rapid adapting ability of the brain makes it much more likely to both defend itself and be able to hack the computer more efficiently than the computer can hack it.

>>5097636
sorry, i got it mixed up :D
"the brain is limited to its senses" is the true statement although it still sounds a bit strange but thats just on my part i guess

>>5097491
Yeah i've been following eye and ear implants for a few years now as well and they are absolutely going to improve past the point of their human sensory counterparts.

And not just more wavelengths which will allow us nightvision but also can you imagine things like thermal for military or other applications?

What about an overlay of direction arrows for everyday life while walking down the street, like you can do with smartphones.

>>5097580
yes, and by its a priori logic, see critique of pure reason.

>>5097697
How much untapped potential are we talking?

>>5097690
thats also awesome of course, but will we see different colors ? i think so..

>>5097584
thats totally not a good question.

>>5097600
>Is it therefore limited by its only means of information input but is capable of processing more than is being received?

no, if i put you in a 4 diminsional hypercube you wouldnt be able to logically or aesthetically (im using the term aesthetic to mean sensually) comprehend it, however, it may be possible to genetically or electronically create brains designed around reality.

>>5097711
>no, if i put you in a 4 diminsional hypercube you wouldnt be able to logically or aesthetically (im using the term aesthetic to mean sensually) comprehend it, however, it may be possible to genetically or electronically create brains designed around reality.
With our current senses, yes. But what if our present brains were equipped with senses that could input a 4 dimensional hypercube? Would our brain be able to process that?

>>5097627
i didnt know that and i am extremely grateful for the information.

>>5097690
>>5097649
ghost_in_the_shell.jpg

>>5097712
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110202172300.htm

this should give you a slight clue about where neural engineering is going to go

>>5097721
>i am extremely grateful for the information.
>in another thread writes "i enjoyed reading that"

You're a cool guy, namefag. I thought I was the only one to write "I appreciated that post" with all the bickering on /sci/.

>>5097712
pure speculation of course, but imagine an individual whose brain is designed biologically to understand a priori the limits of understanding in physics and logic, who can easily imagine x number of dimensions up to the limits of his processing power, who can directly perceive intuitively anything he has the sensory organs to detect (including simultaneous inputs from x number of "eyes"), whose brain executes logical functions with flawless efficiency, who can connect his biological hardware with raw processing power from a computer and upload/download information.

>>5097747
Yet, we live a fraction of a second in the past because our brain cannot process sensory input fast enough.

>>5097747
now that you are posting something of this order, let me allow to introduce you to this neat little site:
http://www.futuretimeline.net/
nice read

>>5097720
Thanks for the link.

What an incredibly odd finding. Stimulating the brain made it easier for them to take a new perspective in problem finding, but did not increase their intelligence?

>>5097765
maybe it will someday.
brain stimulation in order to increase intelligence is still and incredibly new field. this was just a thinking cap, theres also stimulation via electrodes directly on your brain.
but before i venture too far into matters im quite uninformed off, let me just say that i think it will be possible to improve cognitive functions via stimulation (deep brain stimulation) and/or brain computer interfaces, connecting your brain to a computer and such

>>5097761
mfw my 3 best friends are a comp sci grad working on AI, a chemE grad working on nanotech a biomed engineering undergrad gonna do lord knows what, and im just feeling the pulse of the discourse between them.

>>5097744
most people on sci are cool. a few are militant autists.

>>5097792
>a few

So this is like making binoculars for nightvision, but instead using them in the for of prosthetics, because you want some "enhacement"?

You know, right now, you can buy a hearing aid device and have your hearing "enhanced" (hear things from distances normally you wouldn't). It's the same thing with these devices, which I guess were made to help people with disibilities. I mean, you don't see so many people buying hearing aid devices to become "enhanced" even today.

>>5097824
*in the form of

Damn this keyboad.

>Have you ever seen a star go supernova?
>I have. I saw a star explode and send out the building blocks of the Universe. Other stars, other planets and eventually other life. A supernova! Creation itself! I was there. I wanted to see it and be part of the moment. And you know how I perceived one of the most glorious events in the universe? With these ridiculous gelatinous orbs in my skull! With eyes designed to perceive only a tiny fraction of the EM spectrum! With ears designed only to hear vibrations in the air!
>I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language! But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I'm a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more!

>>5097829
So u want to feel bigger dicks in you, speaking from a sensory point of view.
More is not more, you know. You're just a sensation seeker, you get high on more, but you don't get more from less, which would be the smart thing to do.

>>5097829
Fuck, I constantly feel those feels.

Who said that? Is pic related?

>>5097829
>battlestar galactica

>>5097829
>I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those ... moments will be lost in time, like tears...in rain.
>Time to die.

>>5097891
>dat scene, dat actor, dat movie

>>5097761
2000-2010 is strangely nostalgic. hard to believe i got to watch the internet grow up.

>>5097824

That's because if you crank a hearing aid up in your ear, you'll just go deaf. Making a hearing aid that listens to Sub/Super frequency sounds and translates them doesn't do it either.

I want to hear the heartbeat of the city at it's own levels. I want to see Infrared bounce through my dark home and watch Ultraviolet lance across the waves of the lake. I want to feel my electronics alive under my fingers.

The point is to escape "translation"... I could detect any of these with a sensor, but then I'd be reading it instead of feeling it.

>>5099551
Some birds can see ultraviolet. Do you see them enraptured by this experience? I mean, besides the sensation seeking part, you don't say anything about what's to gain from this extra sensory experience.

Jordy LaForge could see a wider spectrum but he was still blind as fuck.

I can't believe no has posted me yet!

>>5097824
Ignoring the emotional draw the OP seems to have, see what >>5097747, >>5097690
There could/would be plenty of advantages to enhancing the human body.

Why do people improve their body by exercising or eating healthy? Because it aids them in their life. Enhancing the body in other ways with electronics is no different.

>>5099787
As I see it, and that observation may well be wrong; the tendency of transhumanists is to view the body as a fragile ineffective thing and eschew their natural functions in the hope of artificial replacement.

It seems to me, to be quite dishonest, to not desire to enhance the natural body, to explore and to optimize its function, before vying for a replacement. You criticize your eyesight, strength, brainpower, athleticism, endurance, reaction speed and durability. That the human condition is innately one of frailty, dullness and exhaustion. Because that's what you know, and assume that's the entire scope of possibility and not a worthy pursuit in the grand scheme of things.