/sci/ - Science & Math

>>5065985
OK NO PROBLEM

>With a little international collaboration

I laughed.

>>5066003
iss.

>>5066022
>Hey, it's that thing we don't really need, serves no real purpose, and exists solely for us to pretend to like each other.

I laughed again.

>>5065985
Oh yes, lets just throw a sun shade up, that will help. That's like saying lets put sunglasses on a man who is on fire and covered in acid.

>>5065985
maybe because the surface is 4 times boiling, the clouds are sulfuric acid, and the air is carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

>>5066069
But it will cool the venus down, once its cool enough there wont be any acid rain and other nasty shit.

And how much would this magical sunshade cool venus down by each year?

>>5066077
>once its cool enough there wont be any acid rain

The acid rain is due to volcanic activity.

>>5066077
you realize most of the heat is from the dense clouds, and not the sun, right?
of course not. you read an article or two, then broscienced the rest in your head.

>>5066077
Really? Where do you expect all that stuff to go? Besides most of it's heat is due to global warming, not because of the sun.

On another note, how do you propose to keep the sunshade constantly angled the proper way so that it is always perpendicular to the line connecting the sun and venus?

how about

>>5066085
Most of it was probably due to excessive tidal heating that resulted in highly increased vulcanism and carbon emissions.

The trick would be to trap the released carbon back in the crust/mantle of the planet itself-- which would be no small task.

Getting it to spin at any appreciable rate would also be fun-- unless you're really into daylight or night.

Aside from that Venus is a better candidate than Mars.

>>5066108
Oh yeah, aside from changing the rotation rate of the ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET as well as having a monstrous shade stay long enough in Venus' Lagrange point to stop the sunlight from hitting and making all the acid and carbon go back into the crust/mantle (which you can't do without plate techtonics), yeah its the better choice by far.

Do you realize what you're proposing here OP?

>>5066119
>Do you realize what you're proposing here OP?

I have better idea. We turn werewolf into a vampire.

We're having a hard time keeping Earth terraformed. What makes you think it'd be easy to terraform Venus?

>>5066086
The clouds dont magically generate heat. Prevent the sun from shining on the venus and it will cool down.

>>5065985
Sunshade wouldn't change the atmosphere. Venus also doesn't have nearly enough water for what we'd need. To properly terraform we'd have to start dropping asteroids on the planet until there bloody well is.

Relevant video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7QUxOo9MMg&feature=related

>>5066136
How will it cool down though? The clouds aren't creating heat, but they're keeping it in. How do you propose to release all that heat that's already there? That is the main problem. The clouds won't just float away because you're shading the planet.

>>5066152
To add on. Dropping asteroids on the planet is really the only feasibly way to add water and that would take centuries if not millennium to work. Plus hitting it with asteroids would also cause it to get hotter again. You've failed huge OP.

ok since none of you know what would happen let me explain. With the lowering temperature CO2 in the atmosphere would turn to liquid and form oceans of liquid CO2 on the surface. These would eventually freeze solid much like what happened to Mars. This would greatly reduce the greenhouse effect. Now venus would be cool as shit, and we could actually start covering the remaining CO2 in the atmostphere into Oxygen and the Sulfur dioxide into H2O. Only 2 big issues is how to add alot more H20 to the planet (crash a moon from saturn into venus using planetary assist) and what to do with the frozen CO2, once thats delt with, we can warm it back up again and actually live there

>>5066158
Heat radiation, how does it work?

Isn't Venus like pretty good place to live comparatively at 50km in the clouds?

why not stay on the air? the atmosphere is so thick it shouldn't be a problem.

>>5066176
>liquid CO2

So you're proposing to make Venus as cold as Mars? Great idea, let's do it! All we have to do is build a giant tow truck and drag it away from the sun.

>>5066163
Centuries/Millenium not an issue. We're talking about completely changing a World so people can live on it. It's a long term investment.

>>5066184
Except that would take hundreds of thousands of years to even take affect.

>>5066213
....
thats what the solar shade is for, its set at the lagragian point(though a little closer to the sun to offset photo thrust from the sun). It will effectivly drop the temperature down to the point where CO2 freezes. Lurk more before you post.

>>5066226
With the correct methods it would only take about 300 years to get the planet habitble enough to set a colony on it

>Everyone thinks they have a point
>Not a single calculation or number

>>5066001
>NASA

>>5066077
>this cools the venus

>my sides are moving on their own!

>>5066246
Show your work, then. How, exactly, do you intend to get Venus to radiate off that much heat within 300 years?

>the technology exists
Pray tell, what is this terraforming technology of which you speak?

> The cost of making a sunshade and setting it in the lagragian point between venus and the sun would cost about as much as the apollo program.
[citation needed]

>>5066251
OP here, ill give you some:
1.To lower Venus to 290K (around where CO2 freezes you need a shade about 2.5 *10^14 m^2). This would only have have to be an aluminized film film that is very thin.
2.The freezing of the CO2 will drop the atmospheric pressure from 93bar down to almost earth pressures.
3.Saterns moon Enceledus or Hyperion can be nudged out of orbit, and through multiple slingshots via planetary assist, be shot towards Venus. (To nock Enceledus out of orbit we would need to nudge it .25 kms-1 towards titan) The heat from the inpact of small moon would disipate within a year due to the thinned atmosphere and solar shade. The water in the moon with evaporate, then rain down and freeze on the planet on top of the CO2

>>5066283
We can make metalic films and mirrors already. The whole point of terriforming venus is that we dont need to create an atmosphere like in mars. We just need to reduce it. Technologies already there its just the iniative thats not.

>>5066305
Bullshit numbers.
The earth is 510072000000m^2
Your aluminum reflector is 2500000000000000m^2

nobody mentioning the pressure on the surface that will crush a human?

>>5066363
Ehh my maths probably a little bit off.
The diameter of the sun shade would be 15.4 x 10^6 m where theres an inner cone thats 5.5 x 10^6 m wide at 45 degrees and 5 or more cone slats at 30 degrees outside of that for the rest of the diameter. each slat isnt connected to the rest

>>5066383
..... you understand that when the 96.5% of venus's atmosphere is CO2. So if u freeze that, the pressure drops about 90 something %. That extreme pressure is genorated by how much gas there is in the atmosphere. When its all froze on the ground u can acheive about 1 bar

>>5066411
We probably dont have the energy here to ship x Trillions of tons of material .72 Au plus or minus depending on the time this intends to take place.

Hasn't anybody read Gateway?

It's all about making tunnels. The surface is not that warm.

However, I don't know about you but I don't want to be a venusian tunnel rat. I'll go in the Mars colonization expedition.

>>5066431
about 7.2 billion tons, and very littler would come from earth. Would be dumb to try to fight earths gravity for that much material. Simply use lunar and asteriodal material for all of it. The cost would be in setting up the infustructure to do it. Still would be in the 23.9 billion dollar butdget that appollo had

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus

Real engineers have to make use of the same solution more than once. A solar shade must be made for three reasons:

1. Cools the planet.
2. Generates electricity.
3. Regulates Venus' 243-day "day" to something acceptable.

The problem with #1 is that it will take a long, long time to cool the lower atmosphere. Solution #1 will have to be working in tandem with other direct solutions, like "genengineered" bacterial infestation.

>>5066320
we can't make, transport, or deploy metal films that large.

Come back when we've mastered the few square kilometer solar sail in 50 years. We've had bad luck with even test models so far.

Also, for scaling it up a million fold, you'd need to mass-produce the films in orbit using ISRU. Again, come back in 50 years when we've developed such technology.

And yes, this is a fine reason to fund and develop ISRU and solar sail research! Baby steps...

>>5066192
>>5066207

Have the right idea. Venus is fine, it's just that the surface is too low. Put an orbital ring around it, drop some cables down and build some floating cities.

Alternatively, stay in space. There's not much going on on Venus beyond gravity and fucktons of carbon dioxide.

>>5066546
> we can't make, transport, or deploy metal films that large.

That's because we just don't do it. We'd do it, if we needed to do it.

After all, that's better than having some /sci/tard speculate we need to de-orbit Pluto into Venus because "Pluto is cold". Even worse: A star made of Plutos colliding with a star made of Venuses.

omg rocks!

Alien landscapes are weird. How come the West hasn't sent any surface landers to produce actual visual images? Why are we not butthurt that the Soviets were the first to send probes to the surfaces of all the terrestrial planets?

image sauce: http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm

>>5066587
Space doesn't have much in the way of resources compared to a nice, big, solid, hopefully low-maintenance, planet.

Right?... Is there an expert who can back me on this?

>>5066176
i wrote a simmilar plan here on /sci/ some time ago, i feel like i acheaved something now here

feelsgoodman.jpg

>>5066363
Carbon nano tubes combined with graphene to form a sheet that is abour 3 atoms thick could block the sun enough to create a shadow and the best part is that is cheap

>>5067285
In the material sence, there isn't that mutch knolage about venus, but if you could grow diamons like silicates then venus should have some

and also every metal imaginable

>>5065985
Because it costs the same as the Apollo program.

>>5065985
FUN FACT

IF YOU WERE TO COOL VENUS' ATMOSPHERE TO 3 DEGREES KELVIN, IT WOULD HEAT BACK UP TO OVEN TEMPERATURE IN LESS THAN A YEAR!

IF YOU DID THIS ONCE EVERY WEEK IT WOULD TAKE FIFTEEN MILLION YEARS FOR VENUS' SURFACE TEMPERATURE TO REACH THE 70 TO 90 CELCIUS IT NATURALLY ACHIEVES DUE TO ITS PROXIMITY TO THE SUN

>>5067459
>IF YOU DID THIS ONCE EVERY WEEK
>(would take some amount of time to reach normal temperatures)
Illogical, if you cool it every week to 3K its not going to heat up any more the second or third week because you're cooling it down again every week.

also:
>Degrees Kelvin

>>5067364
I hadn't thought of that. Venus is probably a giant motherload thanks to all those volcanoes.

$$$ Long-term investment FTW.

Why don't we take the carbon dioxide of Venus, bust it down into it's constituent oxygen and carbon, and use it to build trillions of space habitats to live on.

>>5067459
you should probably just leave this board and go back to /b/. the thought process you have and those bullshit numbers are giving me a headache

what would happen if a planet made of venus collides with a moon made of europa?

>>5067956
venus would injest europa and probably ruin the solar system

>>5067956

You can't be sure. It might create one larger planet that we could live on, or it might create a debris cloud blocking the sunlight from earth.

>>5066363
ehh you added a few extra 0's there bro