/sci/ - Science & Math

well when you judge the intelligence of a fish by seeing how high up a tree it can climb you get that kind of difficulty

Some breeds of dogs are objectively smarter than others.
Only the ones that go "zats rayceest abloobloobloo ;__;" can deny that it doesn't apply to humans, as well.

What this privileged fuck fails to mention is that whites KILLED all the smart Africans and enslaved the leftovers

Just responding to nonsense as I hear it...

Haiti is poor because, even after winning its war for independence, the French sent them a bill for reparations covering the cost of the war and the lost profits from its dye trade. The wealth of Haiti pre-revolution was dependent on the fact that the dyes they had were rare. Once it was possible to cheaply create these colors through artificial processes, Haiti's resources were suddenly useless and Haiti had no way to pay off its debt.

Animals are not domesticated in Africa because their are few docile herd type animals. For thousands of years, man honed its hunting skills in Africa then moved out to europe and asia where it could take species which did not evolve in the presence of humans by surprise. The animals in africa on the other hand are evolved to be territorial and mean.

Many of the farming techniques invented after man reached the middle east, asia and europe only apply to specific crops and these crops can not simply be transplanted all across the world.

The african climate is also inhospitable for most agriculture.

IQ is also not strictly defined by genetics. If your great grandmother was stupid because she was a slave who wasn't allowed to read and she raised your grandma to be stupid because white folk don't like a smart colored person, and grandma raised your mom to be stupid and your mom raised you to be stupid, you can't blame genes.

Brain size is not related to intelligence. In fact, in the modern era brains are evolving to be smaller. Smaller brains use less energy and react faster.

>>4971464
nonsense

the smart ones sold the dumb ones to the white man
seriously..white men tramping through the jungle looking for slaves is the same in any age

lazy...buy slaves easier

and so it was

>>4971448
I've heard that a lot.
People say Border Collies are the smartest breed of dog. Could such a thing by true?

>white people talking about the oldest subject in the world as if it's revolutionary information
i shiggy diggy

>>4971464

>>4971469
Nailed it. How can you use your full genetic potential when it is restricted by its cultural influences?
Of poor families who have to resort to petty thefts and crimes to financially support themselves, with no value of education in the household? This will keep passing down from generation to generation until a child, resilient enough, resists against this cultural impetus.

America is a shithole. The 95% in poverty are blanketed by the 5% in extreme wealth, giving it the facade of a 1st-world country.

Here, in Australia, there are tongans and samoans who are in the highest grade of university and are, in fact, very intelligent (they still get racially abused but whatever). You also get many who live in the slums. But this is the exact same with white trash. In fact, there is more white trash here than any other nationality.

/ poorly-constructed rant

I'm a staunch egalitarian.

In an extreme capitalist society, the rich get richer. It's as simple as that.

>>4971568
In America, the percentage of all black persons living in poverty is greater than the percentage of all white persons living in poverty; however, more white people live in poverty compared to black people due to the sheer amount of white people in America.

In other countries, black people are pretty much statistically equal in terms of intelligence and poverty (with African countries being the exception, as several of them have limited access to educational resources as they're still developing countries/poor). This is because these countries didn't have strict guidelines on how much funding "black" schools can receive or had laws limiting the ability of a black person to get a loan or laws that forced black persons live in certain areas all the way to the 1960s (aka 50 Years Ago!)

Sage

>>4971448
You're comparing humans to dogs improperly. There are no "breeds" when it comes to humans. If humans were dogs, the only thing that would be noticeably different would be the color of the coats. And maybe some *slight* variations psychically - like height. It would not be like a doberman vs an eskie. Thats a ridiculous comparison.

I'm not sure where people keep getting the idea that blacks are athletic, asians are smart, and whatever other retarded idea.

Now before you break out your charts and graphs, please verify the sample size of each.

>>4971601
okay, i wont respond to you

>>4971590
Exactly. They've only recently been emancipated (which is actually debatable that they still aren't)

>>4971620
>mfw a white australian female beat black runners in the olympics
>mfw an asian was competing in the 100m sprints
>mfw Jamaica wins almost every time

I don't know what to make of all this.

>>4971637
Some people trained harder than others? Dunno, just my guess.

He is using shitty arguments. Such as comparing the intelligence of two races in one country without making any reference to the social backgrounds.

Also his africa arguments are complete bullshit. He simply ignores ancient egypt, one of the earliest advanced civilisations in human history.

>>4971652

Why would he mention Egypt? He was talking about Black Africans, not all Africans.

>>4971689
the ancient Egyptians were most likely black, you shouldn't believe hollywood so much

>Is this true, /sci/? Please tell me it isn't

I googled the guy while watching it, and was expecting some white supremacist trash. It turned out to be a decent summary of the evidence. I would not have focused so much on the difference between whites and blacks, but I understand that he did so because he is American, and it is more relevant to Americans. (I'm European.)

So, yes, it's pretty much all true. I definitely agree with him when he says that anyone who has taken the time to study the evidence with an open mind, will reach the same conclusion.

As he also notes, in the very soon future, we will know the genes for intelligence, and then it is will extremely obvious from the evidence which race groups have more intelligence giving genes.

I also like his focus on East Asians. Ashkenazi Jews are also smarter than whites. Whites that a high-IQ population group, but some are higher. Most are lower. Such is life.

>>4971695

Where's the evidence then? All the frescoes in tombs show people that look pretty much the same as the people living there today.

>>4971469
You need to actually study the evidence.

>Brain size is not related to intelligence. In fact, in the modern era brains are evolving to be smaller. Smaller brains use less energy and react faster.

This is just wrong. The premier reference about this is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668913/

-

>Guns, Germs and Steel theories.

Meh

>>4971652
>Also his africa arguments are complete bullshit. He simply ignores ancient egypt, one of the earliest advanced civilisations in human history.

...

North Africans are Caucasians... "blacks" in this context means: people who evolved in sub-Sahara Africa.

This again?

At least this time it has a video

>>4971637
Put drugs into the equation and you have an answer.

>>4971716

>>4971706
>Caucasians
Yes of course always, there was never such a thing as migration due to the roman and caucasian empires.
>>4971702
> frescoes in tombs show people that look pretty much the same as the people living there today.
pic related

>>4971718

If blacks are so smart, how come they were enslaved?

>>4971727
If whites are so smart, then how come they are being reproductively replaced?

>>4971727
Large, united European armies > smaller, ununited African tribesmen

If jews are so smart, then how come they got holocausted?

>>4971739
>If whites are so smart, then how come they are being reproductively replaced?

Why would that matter?

Basically, the reason is that they have created an environment where one doesn't need intelligence to breed well, and are very nice to other people. These other people then come to the created environment and breed.

>If the fact that white children do better in school than black children is due to white racism, the fact that asian-american children do so well in school must be due to asian racism against white and black people in america. Bad asian-americans!

muh nigga

>>4971718
Oh. One picture. This changes everything. Nevermind the fact that there are a ton of other pictures that show a side by side difference of different skin tones found in the populus. Your picture trumps all modern egyptology. Good job anon.

>>4971748

They didn't.

ancient egypt was white

proof: king tut was r1b

Are you actually implying egyptian people weren't a nilotic population progressively isolated from the rest of Africa at the same pace their contact with the semitic and mediterranean world increased?
Inb4 some 30's study about how egyptians were aryan blonde haired Charlton Hestons.

hahahaha this guy,
>classifying race based on skin color
>2012

I'm watching this, it's just fucking pure /pol/ bullshit. Even if there is some merit to his argument (which it isn't"justifies" at lot of his ideas by begging the question. Hardly scientific, just David Duke Jr. caming whoring in his later life. >>>/pol/ gtfo

>>4971760

I'm not that guy, but it's worth mentioning that modern egyptology seems to be more about politics than actual science.

Here's a video where they refuse to accept modern geology because of bullshit reasons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ-xh3kedW4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy#Position_of_modern_scholarship

>UNESCO convened the "Symposium on the Peopling of Ancient Egypt and the Deciphering of the Meroitic Script" in Cairo in 1974. At that forum the "Black Egyptian" theory was rejected by 90% of delegates,[132][133] and the symposium concluded that Ancient Egyptians were much the same as modern Egyptians. The arguments for all sides are recorded in the UNESCO publication General History of Africa,[132] with the "Origin of the Egyptians" chapter being written by Diop.

I think we can trust the experts on this one

Listen up you stinking liberals.

What colour were the Gods according to their own historical records, that came to Egypt to give them civilization?

Correct: White
Incorrect: Any other colour than white

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Renaissance_(magazine)

Lol, I get extra points for mentioning David Duke before even reading this.

>>4971766

>King Tut was R1b Haplogroup
>King Tut was white

These are separate statements. Haplogroup does not necessarily dictate skin color. Especially not in the clusterfuck of haplogroups in europe, northern africa, and india at the time.

Furthermore, this makes no statement about the other rulers of Egypt, and doesn't even come close to making a statement about the populace of Egypt.

Making any basis of argument based on skin color alone is overall fairly retarded. Even worse still is trying to base an argument for skin color on something else so that you can justify your argument for skin color. Why not drop the whole color thing and focus on just haplogroups?
Protip: there is no good reason.

>>4971819

inb4 modern egyptians are white.

>>4971826

Well they definitely aren't black.

>>4971464
Actually, the "smart" africans were enslaving other africans for thousands of years before euros showed up, and these same smart africans were all to happy to sell their slaves to the european traders.

>>4971822

Nah, this is bullshit. It's something that was pushed by social scientists for political reasons. The same thing was done in Mesoamerica. Quatzalcoatl went from being a normal indigenous man with normal indigenous facial hair (which only certain classes of people didn't shave) to a white man with a huge beard.

One need only look at the christian jesus for another example of this. Jesus wasn't a white european with flowing hair, but rather a semite with curly hair.

>ancient egyptian
>black
>4000BC
ISHIGGIDIGIDY OSIRIS DO THIS

>>4971832

They look like other northern africans and middle easterners. I.e. what /pol/ calls shitskins, mudslimes, ragheads, etc.. Not "white".

>>4971838
>what is artistic freedom
so the females where milk white and the men looked like poo?

>>4971837
No one gives a shit about Jesus. White Gods from the stars came down to muddy men and gave them civilization.

>>4971838
Things have clearly not changed

>>4971420
No it isn't. This guy is wrong and the papers he chooses to cite from are either biased or lack important considerations in the data they rely on.

There are at least x10 more articles with finds that support the opposite opinion.

>>4971842
What is colour fading.

racists need to be rounded up and put in concentration camps to be reeducated

only then can we make progress

>>4971448
The genetic difference between different dog breeds is way larger than the difference between different human "races". It's really not a valid comparison.

>>4971696
You didn't google shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Renaissance_%28magazine%29

It's a racist and conspiracy theorist publication.

Inb4 the mod angrily bans me for "inane trolling imbecilic stormfront garbage" by showing this picture depicting the superiority of whites over blacks, and that Pharaoh is white.

>>4971861

Yes, this cartoon serves as an excellent source of evidence. These are clearly self portraits drawn by the people of ancient egypt. We don't even need the scientific method anymore, good job.

>>4971620
The genetic differences are not large compared to the ones between dog breeds, but they are still there.
Whatever the case, they don't matter much compared to the environment and upbringing of the child.

Dr Watson told The Sunday Times that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really".

I wonder why such a man, especially the man who discovered the structure of DNA would say such a thing.

>>4971875
lol it's no surprise. Consider scientists back in the day who used to say crazy things about non-chrisitans.

ITT: one samefag from /pol/

Mods are faggots for not deleting this

I was unable to stand more than a minute or so of the clip. "hwy"? "hwite"? Fuck you for making me listen to his highly annoying speech impediment!

>>4971875
>>4971883
Probably because it's true you liberal kike

>>4971919

Obvious /pol/ user.

gtfo

>>4971922
Prove that I'm wrong and I'll leave. Also not from /pol/

>>4971927

You didn't even make an argument.

>>4971884
I know, even though Moot's stroke of genius for creating a 4chan shit filter = /pol/ was effective, it wasn't completely effective. Read The Skeptics' articles on racial IQ and you'll how utterly stupid this. Plus, bringing an all man ranting against race and using the most famous of all logical fallacies "begging the question" to support his argument as "evidence" is totally below the standard of proof accepted at /sci/, whereas /pol/'s white trash misinformed morons would be happy with this. The burden of proof isn't on us to accept shoddy science, if that were so science would be responsible for overturning every false claim and piece of personal speculation on Earth. It's why science has standards for entry that helps to weed out such nonsense, so if you manage to pass that (which you won't), then return and say, "prove me wrong."

>>4971420
I don't get why this is even a question, its already indisputable scientific fact that it is so. If you want to argue about the cause, and weather its genetic or environmental ect, than thats fine. I laugh at "scientists" using pseudo scientific theories about slavery and 'keeping the man down' to respond to accusations of pseudo science. Its rather hilarious social reaction to a pavlovian conditioning. InB4 no counter evidence provided.

Poverty doesn't mean shit.
Here in Eastern Europe we're way poorer than anyone in America, white or black, and our crimes are extremely low (alright, maybe except some deep parts of Russia but I'm talking about the former satellite states).

>>4971464

>What this privileged fuck fails to mention is that whites KILLED all the smart Africans and enslaved the leftovers

lol at you

Quotes from Arabs and Persians on the characteristics of blacks, long before any European colonialism in Africa/enslavement of blacks by Europeans took place:

Ibn Khaldun
The only people who accept slavery are the Negroes, owing to their low degree of humanity and proximity to the animal stage. Other persons who accept the status of slave do so as a means of attaining high rank, or power, or wealth, as is the case with the Mameluke Turks in the East and with those Franks and Galicians who enter the service of the state [in Spain].

"Beyond [known peoples of black West Africa] to the south there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves, and eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They cannot be considered human beings."

"Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."

Nasir al-Din al-Tusi
"If (all types of men) are taken, from the first, and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth -in no other peculiarity or property - except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent.

>>4972013

Al-Muqaddasi
"Of the neighbors of the Bujja, Maqdisi had heard that "there is no marriage among them; the child does not know his father, and they eat people — but God knows best. As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence."

Al-Masudi
"Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence."

Ibn al-Faqih
"A man of discernment said: The people of Iraq … do not come out with something between blonde, buff and blanched coloring, such as the infants dropped from the wombs of the women of the Slavs and others of similar light complexion; nor are they overdone in the womb until they are burned, so that the child comes out something between black, murky, malodorous, stinking, and crinkly-haired, with uneven limbs, deficient minds, and depraved passions, such as the Zanj, the Somali, and other blacks who resemble them. The Iraqis are neither half-baked dough nor burned crust but between the two."

Abu Rayhan al-Biruni
"The Zanj are so uncivilized that they have no notion of a natural death. If a man dies a natural death, they think he was poisoned. Every death is suspicious with them, if a man has not been killed by a weapon."

>>4972016

Hudud al-`Alam
"Their [Zanj] nature is that of wild animals. They are extremely black." "Among themselves [the Sudan] there are people who steal each other's children and sell them to the merchants when the latter arrive."

"[inhabitants of sub-Saharan African countries] are people distant from the standards of humanity" "Their nature is that of wild animals…"

"As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate… Most of them go naked… In all their lands and provinces, gold is found…. They are people distant from the standards of humanity."

Al Jahiz
"Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj [African Blacks] for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament."

"We know that the Zanj (blacks) are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions."

"They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times - even the Zanj, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Racism

>>4972012

The issue of poverty was even addressed in the video by stating the fact that even the poorest of whites outperform middle to upper class blacks on SAT scores.

>>4971469

>>Brain size is not related to intelligence. In fact, in the modern era brains are evolving to be smaller. Smaller brains use less energy and react faster.

Fuck, I have a huge head. :c

>>4971703 oh.

>>4972012

lol, eastern europe are often times blamed for many of the problems in the rest of europe. Stabbings, muggings, etc..

>>4972013
>>4972016
>>4972017

Everyone knows the arabs and persians are historically racist.

>>4972040

Odd that similar observations weren't levied against Eastern Europeans, or the people of the Iberian Peninsula, or the far East.

how about all them beautiful 1st world countries run by blacks?

>>4972012
>Here in Eastern Europe we're way poorer than anyone in America, white or black, and our crimes are extremely low (alright, maybe except some deep parts of Russia but I'm talking about the former satellite states).

That's because EE are too busy doing crime in other places, i.e., western Europe. Danish prisons have huge numbers of EE criminals.

It makes sense too. Why steal from poor people when one can steal from rich people, and if one gets caught, one goes to the Danish prisons... which have free food, warmth, possibility of visitors (and hookers), television, etc. Not much of a risk.

And the borders are open too, due to Schengen.

>>4972103
touche
<<<

>>4972071

Clearly you have not read any actual literature pertaining to the islamic crusades.

vid related, it's you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M&feature=player_embedded

>>4972115

Wow, I was completely wrong!

Thanks for the link!

>>4971476

ahahaha oh god, this is exactly what I had in mind when he got to the ho-wheel part as well.

racism in /sci/? oh my!

Fuck, half indian, half white here. I feel like a sub-human after watching that. It hurts, /sci/.

>>4972410
But indians are damn cool.
Especially when compared to sandniggers and justniggers.

If anybody's actually interested in the genetics behind race and not just racist apologetics I recommend this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVmj8dDx9yY

>>4971420
whyites.
wyhite rahycism

>>4972470
less than 1 minute in, fallacies.

nope.png

>>4971420

Are any of the professors legit? How about the data?

>>4972481
There are no logical arguments in the first minute, how can there be fallacies?

Anyone else think of Stewie from Family Guy when he said "Whhhhite" and "Blahhhhcks?"

>>4972024

> tfw my brain is large and as efficient as the average smaller brain.

Get on my level.

What about Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study?

>>4972470

>each person is a mix of multiple continental races, there are no pure races anywhere

Well, that's obviously not true.

Using graphs which demonstrates that geographically similar ethnic groups share a great amount of genetic similarly, or the experience of blacks in the Americans does not prove this.

>...we retrieved 1387 hypervariable I Caucasian mitochondrial DNA sequences from the FBI population database and established their haplogroups and continental geographical sources. In sharp contrast with the situation of the Caucasian population of Latin American countries, only 3.1% of the American Caucasian sequences had African and/or Amerindian origin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17573655

In part one a graph is shown describing racial admixture in South America. The creator of the video included text describing "in the Americas" seemingly misrepresenting the major differences between racial admixture found in Canada/USA and Mexico/South America.

>>4972591
To explain this discrepancy we propose that the finding of elevated genomic contributions from European males and Amerindian or African females depends not only on the occurrence of directional mating, but also on the "racial" categorization of the children born from these relations. In this respect, social practices in Latin America and in the United States diverge considerably; in the former socially significant "races" are normally designated according to physical appearance, while in the latter descent appears to be the most important factor.

Continuum fallacy is used throughout both videos.

>>4972554
Wasn't it mentioned in that video? The guy said something like IQ's start off high when the kid's young, but level off to within 2 - 3 points of their respective race's IQ by the time they hit 18.

>>4972591

>>4972591

Article contiuned:

>To explain this discrepancy we propose that the finding of elevated genomic contributions from European males and Amerindian or African females depends not only on the occurrence of directional mating, but also on the "racial" categorization of the children born from these relations. In this respect, social practices in Latin America and in the United States diverge considerably; in the former socially significant "races" are normally designated according to physical appearance, while in the latter descent appears to be the most important factor.

Continuum fallacy is used throughout both videos. The fact that populations exist between group "A" and group "B" does not make A and B any less distinct. Nor are their classification of groups arbitrary, as it's a consequence of being geographically separated for tens of thousands of years.

>>4972619

Here's a recent study for the race deniers/trivializers.

>You may have read that there is more genetic variation within major ethnic groups than between ethnic groups. That this precludes the possibility of group differences is Lewontin's Fallacy (explained in pictures).

>Deep sequencing of the human genome, which reveals rare variants (here, defined as those found in fewer than 0.5 percent of the population), shows that there is actually more variation between groups than within groups. (So what you may have been taught in school is not true -- sorry, that's how science works sometimes.) The figure below, from this July 6 Science article, shows that over 50 percent of rare genetic variants are found in African populations (which have greater genetic diversity) but not in European populations. About 41 percent of all rare variants are found only in Europeans and not in Africans, and only 9 percent of the variants are common to both groups.

>These rare variants are likely recent mutations. Unsurprisingly, they differ in populations that have been geographically separated for tens of thousands of years.

>>4972644

>Because rare variants are typically the result of recent mutations, they are expected to be geographically clustered or even private to specific populations. Using a measure of variant sharing between two samples (7), we found that for common variants, any two European populations appear to be panmictic, whereas for rare variants, European populations show lower levels of sharing (fig. S7). In general, the level of sharing depends on geographic distance, with the dependence increasing substantially with decreasing allele frequency (fig. S8). The Finnish population shows substantially lower levels of sharing with other European populations than predicted by geographic distance, which is consistent with hypotheses of a historical Finnish demographic bottleneck (23). Levels of rare variant sharing are even lower when comparing populations from distinct continents. Thus, catalogs of rare variants will need to be generated locally across the globe.

>We found substantial variation in the total abundance of variants across populations, even within Europe (Fig. 3 and fig. S7D), which is likely due to demographic history. In particular, we observed a north-south gradient in the abundance of rare variants across Europe, with increased numbers of rare variants in Southern Europe and a very small number of variants among Finns, who had about one third as many variants as southern Europeans.

http://infoproc.blogspot.ca/2012/07/rare-variants-and-human-genetic.html

If mixing between continental (racial) groups has been as widespread as the creator of that video suggest then such a racial divide of these rare variants could not be possible.

>>4972644

>Because rare variants are typically the result of recent mutations, they are expected to be geographically clustered or even private to specific populations. Using a measure of variant sharing between two samples (7), we found that for common variants, any two European populations appear to be panmictic, whereas for rare variants, European populations show lower levels of sharing (fig. S7). In general, the level of sharing depends on geographic distance, with the dependence increasing substantially with decreasing allele frequency (fig. S8). The Finnish population shows substantially lower levels of sharing with other European populations than predicted by geographic distance, which is consistent with hypotheses of a historical Finnish demographic bottleneck (23). Levels of rare variant sharing are even lower when comparing populations from distinct continents. Thus, catalogs of rare variants will need to be generated locally across the globe.

>We found substantial variation in the total abundance of variants across populations, even within Europe (Fig. 3 and fig. S7D), which is likely due to demographic history. In particular, we observed a north-south gradient in the abundance of rare variants across Europe, with increased numbers of rare variants in Southern Europe and a very small number of variants among Finns, who had about one third as many variants as southern Europeans.

http://infoproc.blogspot.ca/2012/07/rare-variants-and-human-genetic.html

If mixing between continental (racial) groups has been as widespread as the creator of that video suggests then such a racial divide of these rare variants could not be possible.

>A new article in BMC Genomics discusses the issue of predicting continental origin using randomly selected markers. The pdf is freely available.

>One of the arguments of those who deny the existence of biological races is that their reality is subjective. Some extremists have argued that race is totally socially constructed; this is, however, disproven by the fact that socially constructed race is correlated with physical characteristics. Thus, rather than being separated from biology, the social phenomenon of race is rooted in biology.

>A different argument holds that race is correlated with biology, but the differences are "skin-deep", i.e., involve only superficial, visible, (and by some strange logic unimportant) characteristics. According to the proponents of this view, the idea of biological race places an undue emphasis on a set of traits: it is a result of the subjective choice of a set of traits as race-defining. Thus, the commonly recognized races of traditional physical anthropology are discounted as subjective organizations of the biological data: we could just as simply speak of a "lactose-intolerant race" according to this view.

>>4972657

>In forensic science and admixture analysis scientists often discover and use polymorphisms which exhibit large inter-population differences. Decoding DNA isn't free, thus, it makes sense to use the most informative, most "biased" markers when one is trying to discover the origin of a biological sample. For example, if Africans have 55% of gene version A and 45% of gene version B, and Europeans have 53% of A and 47% of B, it makes little sense to type this particular gene, since it cannot really tell us whether a sample is European or African. A gene where Africans have 90% of A while Europeans have 5%of A would be much more useful. Race skeptics claim, as with the physical anthropological data, that to privilege such carefully chosen genes is to stress the differences between groups; the implication is that in randomly chosen genes these differences are minor.

>The new paper is one of many (you can click on the Clusters label to find more) recent papers that have discovered that no matter what genetic markers you choose: SNPs, STRs, no matter how you choose them: randomly or based on their "informativeness", it is relatively easy to classify DNA into the correct continental origin. Depending on the marker types (e.g., indel vs. microsatellite), and their informativeness (roughly the distribution differences between populations), one may require more or less markers to achieve a high degree of accuracy. But, the conclusion is the same: after a certain number of markers, you always succeed in classifying individuals according to continental origin.

>>4972659

>Thus, the emergent pattern of variation is not at all subjectively constructed: it does not deal specifically with visible traits (randomly chosen markers could influence any trait, or none at all), nor does it privilege markers exhibiting large population differences. The structuring of humanity into more or less disjoint groups is not a subjective choice: it emerges naturally from the genomic composition of humans, irrespective of how you study this composition. Rather than proving that race is skin-deep, non-existent, or unimportant, modern genetic science is both proving that it is in fact existent, but also sets the foundation for the study of its true importance, which is probably somewhere in between the indifference of the sociologists and the hyperbole of the racists.

...

>Conclusion: Accurate characterization of ancestry is possible using small numbers of randomly
selected SNPs. The results presented here show how investigators conducting genetic association studies can use small numbers of arbitrarily chosen SNPs to identify stratification in study subjects and avoid false positive genotype-phenotype associations. Our findings also demonstrate the extent of variation between continentally defined groups and argue strongly against the contention that genetic differences between groups are too small to have biomedical significance.

http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2007/04/prediction-of-continent-of-origin-using.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1828730/pdf/1471-2164-8-68.pdf

>>4972662

>>4972659

>Thus, the emergent pattern of variation is not at all subjectively constructed: it does not deal specifically with visible traits (randomly chosen markers could influence any trait, or none at all), nor does it privilege markers exhibiting large population differences. The structuring of humanity into more or less disjoint groups is not a subjective choice: it emerges naturally from the genomic composition of humans, irrespective of how you study this composition. Rather than proving that race is skin-deep, non-existent, or unimportant, modern genetic science is both proving that it is in fact existent, but also sets the foundation for the study of its true importance, which is probably somewhere in between the indifference of the sociologists and the hyperbole of the racists.

...

>Conclusion: Accurate characterization of ancestry is possible using small numbers of randomly selected SNPs. The results presented here show how investigators conducting genetic association studies can use small numbers of arbitrarily chosen SNPs to identify stratification in study subjects and avoid false positive genotype-phenotype associations. Our findings also demonstrate the extent of variation between continentally defined groups and argue strongly against the contention that genetic differences between groups are too small to have biomedical significance.

http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2007/04/prediction-of-continent-of-origin-using.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1828730/pdf/1471-2164-8-68.pdf

>>4972659

>Thus, the emergent pattern of variation is not at all subjectively constructed: it does not deal specifically with visible traits (randomly chosen markers could influence any trait, or none at all), nor does it privilege markers exhibiting large population differences. The structuring of humanity into more or less disjoint groups is not a subjective choice: it emerges naturally from the genomic composition of humans, irrespective of how you study this composition. Rather than proving that race is skin-deep, non-existent, or unimportant, modern genetic science is both proving that it is in fact existent, but also sets the foundation for the study of its true importance, which is probably somewhere in between the indifference of the sociologists and the hyperbole of the racists.

...

>Conclusion: Accurate characterization of ancestry is possible using small numbers of randomly selected SNPs. The results presented here show how investigators conducting genetic association studies can use small numbers of arbitrarily chosen SNPs to identify stratification in study subjects and avoid false positive genotype-phenotype associations. Our findings also demonstrate the extent of variation between continentally defined groups and argue strongly against the contention that genetic differences between groups are too small to have biomedical significance.

http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2007/04/prediction-of-continent-of-origin-using.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1828730/pdf/1471-2164-8-68.pdf