/sci/ - Science & Math

how about venus then? I'm sure their is a way to turn the sulpheric acid to water somehow.

magnetic fields literally don't matter op. Where do you get the idea that the lack of a magnetic field is a big deal?

>>4956107

eh we could have our colonies be all underground to shield from the cosmic radiation. but thatd be its own technical engineering nightmare.

>>4956166
colonies maybe but not terraforming

OP is right, mars will never have an earth like atmosphere, if we ever develop the technology and obtain the energy to accomplish this chances are humanity will have been surpassed and civilization won't bother trying to make mars habitable for fleshbags that naturally evolved on earth

>>4956121
Good luck maintaining an atmosphere without a magnetic field.

We could do what they did in Cowboy Bebop and develop a magnetic field generator.
Have the field expand over a large area and you should be ok.

>>4956217
Amen.

>>4956217

Oh, get over yourself. You'd have to smack some comets into Mars. So why not "top off" the new Martian atmosphere with added comet skips? The incoming comet can be mined into bits, which won't end up hitting the surface.

You guys have this "no magnetic field, no atmopsphere" thing on the fucking brain. IT'S NOT A REAL PROBLEM FOR OUR CIVILIZATION.

/sci/, why do we need to terraform Mars so hard?
We could explore Mars in mechanical bodies.

Step1: gather Mars' moons and several other Kuiper belt objects together to form a large moon of sufficient mass.
Step2: position the mass of objects (we'll call it rockball) in orbit around mars.
Step3: wait for rockball's gravity to turn Mars' core molten.
Step4: profit from EM field.

>>4956107

I've been saying that all along OP. I don't however think an artificial magnetic field is impossible either, but, it should definitely be our first course of action, none of that work our asses off wasting a ton of energy and resources only to have it be stripped away shortly afterwards. The people wanting to just terraform mars temporarily are acting as if we have infinite fuel sources and shit.

>>4956343
Solar wind, mostly. Although, I recall reading that even just going underground is good enough to block most harmful radiation. That could also keep an atmosphere if all the entrances were air-locked, so people going about their regular daily activities wouldn't even need special suits.

The early sun was much more volatile then it is currently. It would take BILLIONS of years for the restored atmosphere to leak into space (longer then the planet will remain in the habitable zone) and it could easily be replenished at a faster rate then it is leaked off.

What if you designed a different atmospheric makeup?

such as a synthetic barrier of metals and gasses that act in a similar way that our magnetosphere does suspended above a breathable atmosphere??

Perhaps you could put a current through it using static friction and create a magnetic field..

I hear there is a lot of iron on mars, a good conductor of electric and magnetic fields fields.

>>4956330
Well enjoy your solar winds, magnetic-field hater

>>4956217
The atmosphere will be blown off into space without a magnetic field to shield against the solar winds, but this is over a timespan of millions of years. If we have the technology to produce an atmosphere in the first place it is trivial to do it a little more every thousand years to maintain the atmosphere.

>>4956403
>trivial
It's funny, I don't think we have the same definition for that word

>>4956330
It really is important though, with out a magnetic field or something like it the solar radiation would tear apart our terraformed atmospheric molecules, and our bodies.

with out one we would be confined to interior buildings, this is a thread about terraformation of mars, not cave dwelling.

Is life human life on mars possible now? Like if I were to drop a human off on mars with a life time of food and water would he be able survive in the atmosphere of mars and would he be able survive the climate?

>>4956431
YUH.

op is back

what do y'all thing about setting giant magnets in orbit?

not sure if this be stupid of what

>>4956239
This would be a good intermediate idea, between full terraformation and protocolony.

mars is much closer to the sun so broadcasting solar power to the planet would be a good idea and powerful, and like i said earlier there is a abundance of iron oxide, a good magnetic and electric field generator if processed. alot of the materials that are needed for this idea are provided already by mars.

>>4956444
If you built a iron refining facility via artificial vulcanism, and than spewed it into orbit, you might find a way to turn a orbital ring of iron into an electromagnet using other elements and compounds to create a photovoltaic effect from solar energy

This is a picture of what would be a similar volcanic event on the moon of Io.

>>4956431
might as well drop you there hehe

>>4956477
>artificial vulcanism
and what is this supposed to be

>>4956117
We wait for Jesus to be reincarnated.

catptcha: religious bochimp

>>4956360
>gather Mars' moons and several other Kuiper belt objects
>mars moons
>a kuiper belt object

>>4956504
I believe this is what he's talking about.

>>4956504
It means volcanic activity synthesized, via artificial means.

such as nuclear fuel gone critical, or some other heat source.

>>4956670


you have no idea what the fuck your talking about.

Made clear by your statement of "gone critical"

Critical is the normal state asshole.

>>4956307
>>4956217
How long do you think it will take for Mars to lose a breathable atmosphere?

A magnetic field is not necessary.

>>4956689
by critical i mean nuclear source that is unconstrained and no longer sustained by a cooling system.

a uranium rod that has been dropped into a pit and left to melt, just like any reactor gone.

wait.. what was that term they use again when the fuel rods melt and liquify rock and lead because of the heat?

oh yeah, CRITICAL.


fucking dick face.

>>4956689
by critical i mean nuclear source that is unconstrained and no longer sustained by a cooling system.

a uranium rod that has been dropped into a pit and left to melt, just like any reactor gone.

wait.. what was that term they use again when the fuel rods melt and liquify rock and lead because of the heat?

oh yeah, CRITICAL.


fucking dick face.

>>4956121
>magnetic fields literally don't matter op. Where do you get the idea that the lack of a magnetic field is a big deal?
they do matter, since they block most of the radiation harmful to DNA from reaching the surface

the magnetic fields are not caused by volcanoes though, they are caused by the rotating moon stirring the earth's molten core--a moon rotating so close that its own rotation matches its earth-orbit

so that's what you'd have to find to get a new-inhabitable planet. a planet not only with a ~4:1 nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere hospitable to liquid water, but also with a relatively big moon orbiting very close

>>4956559

lol that pic is funny and that ladies body looks bangin

>>4956700
I like the part where you make the assumption that we already have a breathable atmosphere on mars. At what rate would we have to produce one to match an equilibrium with the rate of loss? What is the relationship between the amounts of atmosphere we produce on top of that and the number of years it will take for us to have a breathable atmosphere? What sort of insane energy costs are we looking at here? Is this what you call sustainable?

>>4956444
>>4956725

Couldn't we use an artificial magnetic field, like that guy said? It doesn't have to cover the whole planet really, it just has to face the sun, right?

>>4956725


What about a artificial magnetosphere like i suggested earlier??

>>4956477
>>4956394


it would be impractical to vulcanize the center of the planet, we do not even know if the center of the planet is made of iron or not. on top of this the energy that it would require is way beyond the technology we have, not only this but the energy and engineering would be so complicated and vast that it would very much indeed be more practical to power an alternative method of creating a magnetic field around the planet.

>>4956746
>>4956742
hivemind

>>4956733
what about something like this?
it would allow for drones to be accessed, powered, and programed all day. If you had the drones do the work, and the right chemistry it would be done fairly fast.

if you found a way to build drones from materials around the planet, that would exponentially shorten the time frame

Also this;


from this thread.

>>4956645
>>4956757
if you built something like this and had it terraform over a long period of time..

the only thing is weather or not there are enough compounds to make up a breathable atmosphere.

some how extracting the required elements from rocks..?

asteroids?

any ideas?

>>4956800

As a mining engineer I can tell you that the kind of excavations in that picture probably would not be feasible.

>>4956800
Am I the only one who thinks that biodome looks azn?

>>4956889
>>4956889
I mean i am not going to say the picture was the most brilliant idea, or that my hasty designed mining cavity is practical but it gets the point of mining for iron across.

but, i am interested in what you may know, can you tell me why?

>>4956800

I like your pyramid, but it needs more pagan gods and ritual sacrifice.

>>4956545
>implying that Mars' moons weren't captured from the Kuiper belt.

>>4956912

First of all people usually underestimate just how expensive mining is. Obviously you're not mining this iron ore for profit, and so financially right of the bat it may not be feasible. You're looking at a minimum of $1 billion capital expenditure plus operational expenditures of something like $50 million per month for the mining alone. This is assuming that you can work out the logistics of constructing the infrastructure of the ore preparation plant and any large machinery (which will have to be constructed on-site). This also does not include the cost of exploration to find the deposit in the first place (can be up to $500 million).

Then from a technical viewpoint, these excavations are probably far too close to molten rock. This is not just because the molten rock itself is hot, but also because this heat creates a thermal gradient which creates a flow cycle of hydrothermal fluids. If you create an excavation here, there will most likely be an inflow of boiling water into the opening which could kill anyone working there. Your diagram also does not account for ventilation or gas drainage (and if it is required).

1) Attach giant solar sail onto mars.
2) Sail it around the solar system.
3) ????
4) Profit!

>>4956746

>What about a artificial magnetosphere like i suggested earlier??

What about it? We're discussing technology, not magic.

>>4956953

>money

B-But kurzwheel said that when we create machine-god that he will instantly solve all of our problems one of which being money.

i haven't thought this through at all but it tells me what i want to hear so i believe it and nothing can convince me otherwise.

Only an idiot would think that we won't have AI and flying cars by 1997.

>>4956965
its not magic dickweed, its a hypothesis.

iron is abundant and conducts electric and magnetic fields very well.

there are compounds that discharge electrical power when they come in contact with photons.

we are also talking about technology far in advance of ours.

it is not improbable to hypothesize that in addition to terraforming breathable atmosphere, that you could also design a layer of atmosphere with iron based compounds that conduct power from a number of sources.

Sources such as, static electricity from atmospheric winds similar to lightning, or from added compounds that have a photoelectric effect solar energy.

in turn there energy sources would be used to create a magnetic field around the planet, similar to our earths magnetosphere.


this is a hypothesis based roughly on current technology and preservable events.

At the moment our chemistry and technology is not at the level to complete this mission, so instead i am compensating for the advancements that would have to occur for terraformation in any effect to take place in the first place.


now if you would like to scientifically object to any obvious flaws, i implore you to do so.

>>4956975


>>"He"

>>4956975

>>Only an idiot would think that we won't have AI and flying cars by 1997.

I still love it though

>>4956965
i was suggesting that instead of melting the core of the planet and hoping it is made of iron, that we could have the same effect on the exterior of the planet.

our magnetosphere is generated by flowing iron in the core of our planet.

the iron spins, and generates static electricity, the electric field in turn creates a magnetic field around the planet.

you could do the same if you suspended iron compounds in the atmosphere and ran an electric current through it.

Solar energy would provide electric power if a Polycyanamide compound was suspended in the atmosphere with the iron compounds.

another method would be to create predictable convection currents that discharge static power into the iron compounds in the atmosphere.


In my opinion despite the gargantuan scale of this chemistry, the theory is quite sound.

In my opinion i do not see the transformation of breathe able atmosphere on mars happening, Unless this magnetosphere were in place.

it would protect the surface from solar radiation, and could provide temperature insulation, even electric power to perhaps fuel the rest of the terraformation process.

>tfw humans will never become a tier 0 civilization

I want to build my own planets already ;_;

Venus may be a more ideal project as it has more venues of energy production.

Thoughts?

Just set off a few nukes in mars core.
Should fix things right up

>>4957307
Radiation isn't high enough to prohibit effective colonization, and a thicker atmosphere adds significant protection via the ionosphere.

Loss of atmosphere due to solar winds would be insignificant. That's why Mars had oceans millions of years without a magnetic field.

>>4957319
We ARE tier 0. Tier 1 is harassing all of a planets power.

Do any of you guys ever wish there were no humans anymore?

>>4957523

b-but where are you going to get unobtainium

>>4957608
Pandora, man.

>>4957554
Mars had a magnetosphere during the time when liquid oceans existed on the planet.

and the radiation is Very dangerous, it ripped apart mars's atmosphere, which is why it no longer exists.

the ionosphere would not be able to help because it would be stripped away by the solar winds too fast.

i the ionosphere acts as a secondary defense for our planet by protecting us from the radiation that the magnetosphere was not able to redirect around the planet.

with out the magnetosphere the ionosphere would not be able to stay intact as it would have to deal with the entire force of the solar winds and would be blown into space.

an external atmospheric shell would provide enough insulation from radiation via a magnetosphere, would allow heat to build up on the planet, and would provide electric power to population centers if designed well enough.

one lightning bolt is a huge amount of power, if you engineered a predictable convection current of photoelectric particles combined with a grounding tower, you could power all of mars's teraforming processes and human colonies.

>>4957523
It would be a very large amount of fissionable material, and would not be able to power its self as the moons of mars are of insufficient mass.

>>4957639
>Mars had a magnetosphere during the time when liquid oceans existed on the planet.
Nah, it died and it took millions of years for the atmosphere to disappear.

>>4957639
>with out the magnetosphere the ionosphere would not be able to stay intact
Tell that to Venus.

>>4957639
>the ionosphere would not be able to help because it would be stripped away by the solar winds too fast.
Since when is a million years or more "too fast"? I'm ok with that timeframe.

>>4956117
never taken chemistry before? strong acid + strong base => h2o + salt.

ie, drop a bomb of NaOH on the surface and you get a salt water landscape

>>4957923
That's a lot of base. Where will we get it all?

>>4956459
>mars is much closer to the su
>my very eager MOTHER
no, no it's not.

Assuming there were oceans on Mars at some point (and I think a lot of scientists already do) what could've happened to get water off the planet?

>>4957904
Venus has an atmosphere that's 98% CO2 because almost all other gases(oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, etc) aren't heavy enough and are stripped away. CO2 is a bit special in that it's heavy enough to stay within Venus' gravity well.

>>4957940
comets and asteroids.

>>4956360
>gather Mars' moons and several other Kuiper belt objects together to form a large moon of sufficient mass.

>gather

>position the mass of objects (we'll call it rockball) in orbit around mars.

>position

Oh yeah. Without a powerful magnetosphere and stronger gravity Mars could only have liquid water for millions of years or so before it would freeze up again.

There is no point in performing projects that only last for millions of years.

>>4957639
>Mars had a magnetosphere during the time when liquid oceans existed on the planet.

That's a fascinating theory.

Did it hurt your ass when you pulled it out?

>>4956121
the radiation from the from the sun thats kind of a problem unless all the colonys are underground

why don't we just use the iron in our blood?

>>4956360
The timescale of projects like that is the only reason I desire immortality.

>>4957979
Since when did comets have a basicity of OVER 9000?

>>4956217

EVERYONE WHO THINKS THE LACK OF A MAGNETIC FIELD IS A PROBLEM IS A COMPLETE RETARD.

All it means is that the atmosphere, if not continually replenished, would slowly degrade over THOUSANDS OR MILLIONS OF YEARS.

I submit this is enough time to do something about it and that there would already be atmospheric processors left over from the terraforming process that we could simply leave running for atmospheric replenishment.

Repeat: OP thinks he's smart and that he's said something insightful but is in fact ignorant on this topic and should be ashamed of that.

>>4958301
Didn't they find magnetic field lines in the rocks of Mars, indicating there was in fact a magnetic field at one point?

>>4958516
But magnetic field protects us from the radiation. Also how much energy does it take to power those machines?

>>4958516
This.

I find it hard to conceive why anyone would think it's a major problem.

yeah dawg, drop some atmospheric processers on mars motherfucker

>>4958520
Yes, and they might be where the first manned missions land.

>>4957319

When future humans become god-like, imagine the possibilities. Terra forming and changing large bodies will become trivial and perhaps a god damn hobby.

>we need a magnetic field so we can go outside
>going outside
I see no difference here on Earth

>>4956107
Superconductors.

If a time machine is ever built, I'm going to use it to kill whoever first came up with the idea that Mars lacking a magnetic field is huge, HUGE problem.

THE EARLY SUN WAS FAR MORE VOLATILE THEN IT IS NOW.

THIS COMBINED WITH LARGE IMPACTS DESTROYED ITS ATMOSPHERE.

IF WE WHERE TO GIVE MARS A ATMOSPHERE AT PRESENT IT WOULD LAST MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS OF YEARS

FULL TERRAFORMING IS UNNECESSARY AND STUPID

WE ONLY NEED TO RESTORE ENOUGH ATMOSPHERE SO THAT WE MAY WALK OUTSIDE WITH A OXYGEN MASK.

WE CAN DO THIS AT PRESENT WITH RELATIVELY TINY INVESTMENT.

MARS IS ON THE BORDER OF EXPERIENCING A RUNAWAY GREENHOUSE EFFECT DURING THE SUMMER THAT WOULD RELEASE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF FROZEN CO2 AND WATER VAPOR INTO THE ATMOSPHERE IF TRIGGERED.

THIS WOULD GIVE MARS 30 TO 40% OF OUR ATMOSPHERE AT SEA LEVEL WHICH IS MORE THEN ENOUGH FOR HIGH ALTITUDE PLANTS TO SURVIVE AND EASY TO CONSTRUCT DWELLINGS AND GREENHOUSES.

THIS WOULD ALSO ALLOW US TO WALK ON THE SURFACE OF MARS WITH ONLY A JACKET AND A OXYGEN MASK.

>>4956107
Untrue, venus has no magentosphere yet it still remains very hot. Closer to home we have the earth, with its poles flipping shit on occasion, yet life goes on.

The point is, a magnetosphere is not necessary.

>>4958632
at least on earth it remains a possibility and my soul keeps a small glimmer of hope.

>>4958525
Life is quite adaptable to radiation actually. Not to mention a proper atmosphere should be sufficient.

>>4956422
I think that you overestimate the hazards of solar wind in planet that's more distant to the sun than earth.

>>4958854

Stop yelling Kuato. It doesn't make anything you say more rational.

>>4958525
Not really. It protects us from ions, and they are not such a big deal.

>>4957940

Shove skrillex into a capsule and jetison him into the planet

>>4958924

or we could just find a cheap cure for cancer ...

like they did in Red Mars.

NO MORE PROBLEM WITH RADIATION

>>4958924
>>4958948
I lol'd heartily.

>>4956975
>Only an idiot would think that we won't have AI and flying cars by 1997.
We would if humanity was not so stingy
and sheep (were a technology not only has to be made but advertised in good way to make people use it)