/sci/ - Science & Math

yes

no

First one.

>>4945620
very helpful, dickfoot.

The former is correct. The patients are suffering, not the number.

The latter is correct. Suffer is referring to "a large number".

>>4945621
thank you

suffer is correct

It's tricky, and as far as I know there's no rule that covers every situation.

Generally
>A large number of patients suffer from
sounds more correct, since the "number" isn't really intended to be the subject--the "patients" are.

A different example
>A large car of patients crash
>A large car of patients crashes

Here, the car is intended to be the subject. It doesn't matter that it's filled with patients. The second is correct in this case.

Take out the extra words until it is just the backbone of the sentence. The subject and verb have to agree.

>A large number of patients suffer from
>A number of patients suffers from
>A number suffers from

Here, the subject is "a number" (singular) and the verb is "suffer" (plural). The subject and verb don't agree. So, change the verb to "suffers" (singular).

>>>/lit/

Also shame on everyone in this thread for helping him and not keeping up the /sci/ spirit.

For shame.

>>4945649
You mean not being obnoxious assholes who only care about HIGH SCIENCE and refuse to answer a simple question?

If you care so much about the /sci/ spirit, turn the thread into discussion about linguistics. That scientific enough for you? In short, add to the conversation.

>>4945673
Stop being so autistic, that was in jest. Unless you are truly the chosen one in /sci/ sarcasm..

>>4945686
>ironic shitposting is still shitposting

>>4945648
>patients suffer from

>>4945712
Full retard. The subject of the sentence is "a number".

Plural vs singular is misleading. These idiosyncrasies usually make sense if you think in terms of sets.

Suffers implies a subset:
>He suffers from
>My dog suffers from
>The red ant (subspecies) suffers from
>The ant (individual) suffers from
>The ant (subset of the set of animals) suffers from
>The group (subset) of patients (set) suffers from

Suffer implies a total set:
>I suffer from
>They suffer from
>Ants suffer from
>A large-number-of-patients suffer from

>>4945816
A large number of patients is a subset of all patients, you fucking retard.

Grammatically speaking the former is correct. However, the latter feels correct (much like one 'feels' that homeopathy actually works), and I don't think anyone's gonna be upset if you use either one.

>>4945816
No, suffer implies plural, which 'number' isn't. For example, it's "a number is a number", not "a number are a number".

>>4945831
An example which is perhaps closer to what we're discussing is "if that bucket of eggs falls, I'm going to fuck your shit up" as opposed to "if that bucket of eggs fall, I'm going to fuck your shit up."

inb4 300 replies

first of all, this should fucking be on /lit/
secondly, it doesnt take 20 fucking posts to answer a simple fucking question!

>it doesnt take 20 fucking posts
>doesn't

>>4945836
>doesn't

*don't

>>4945836
>EK complaining about shitposting
>mfw

>>4945818
A large number of patients is an explicit definition of a total set. The fact that it's a subset is then implicitly known, and no longer needs to be explicitly implied with the 's'. Otherwise this:

>A group of a large number of patients suffers from.

Would look like:
>A (group of a (large number of (patients suffer)s)s from.

>>4945836

Fuck off EK, you're /sci/'s cancer.

>>4945839
fuck off aspie

>>4945848
retard

>>4945851
nice bump, fuckhead

>>4945868
eat shit!

>>4945873
>EK
>calling others retarded

oh god, my sides

>>4945873

Seriously, I don't come here often, but almost every time I do I see you. And you're always making pointless posts, you're often wrong, and always rude and condescending (in situations which you have no right to be - it's almost funny).

Your posts belong in a forum like /b/, but you seem to like the fact that you garner some attention here. But with the amount of time you spend on here, and the amount of stupid posts you make, you know as well as we do that you waste far too much of your own time to ever achieve anything.

You would be much better off, and /sci/ would be much better off if you left. Please think about it.

>>4945831
Your argument fails because "I suffer" is singular. My argument stands because "I" is an explicit definition of a set.

>>4945873
I actually love you, when are you going to post more of those pics of yours?

It would be nice to see a recent pic :)

>>4945898
Your argument doesn't stand, there's no such thing as a total set.

>>4945904
Oh I'm sorry; *don't

Which one is correct now? You confuse me, /sci/.

>>4945925
You can google it, you know (try 'is group plural'). I believe the britfags prefer one way, and murricans the other.

>>4945925
the first one! obviously!
now delete the thread!!

>>4945932
Fuck you, talentless whore.

>>4945925
The second one.

>>4945932
Shut up, you retard troll.

>>4945932
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

Don't close the thread, OP. This problem is far from solved.

>>4945934
[sarcasm] yes, im obviously the fucking troll, because obviously a double pluralisation is totally gonna be correct! [/sarcasm]

>>4945938
you are a fucking retard.

>>4945944
"A number" is not plural. Using a non-plural form of a verb would be fucking retarded.

>>4945932
You are not allowed to criticize anyone for the quality of their posts or comment on the quality of a thread until you lose your trip.

>>4945949
twat!
PATIENTS
is the fucking plural!!

>>4945959
"Patients" is not the subject of the sentence, you idiotic cretin.

>>4945953
I wouldn't say until she loses her trip, just until she stops posting exclusively useless and retarded shit.

>>4945965
PATIENTS is the thing thats right before the 'variable'; the fucking thing OP was asking about!!

you dont say 'patients suffers', you dumb fuck!

>>4945969
im the only one here actually trying to help OP, the rest of you are clearly retard trolls!
fuck off!

>>4945970
How retarded are you? You are so stupid, it hurts.

According to your retard logic you'd have to say "A bucket of eggs fall down" instead of "A bucket of eggs falls down".

>>4945971
You're a disinfo agent.

>"A large number of patients suffer from"
google yields 64.400 hits
>"A large number of patients suffers from"
google yields 5 hits (2 are from this thread)

now this was exhausting.

>>4945980
damn, Google does grammar now too?

>>4945980
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=185106

Both are acceptable, you lazy piece of shit.

>>4945980
It's still grammatically incorrect. Even if certain phrases tend to be used incorrectly in the general public, you should keep using the correct form nonetheless.

>>4945925
Alright, OP. This link should help.
http://www.englishforums.com/English/ALargeNumberHasHave/dmzhx/post.htm

It basically asks about your problem and the main contents of the link indicate that either could be used, but it depends on the formality of your writing. As many people have stated in here, it depends on the "subsets", however, in general, the preposition "of patients" wouldn't be modified, so the verb "suffer" would modify the "large number".

tl;dr look at link. If that doesn't help, use "suffers" for a formal paper and "suffer" for a formal talk. Really though, most people you talk to wouldn't care. Good luck.

bump!

>>4945992
>It's still grammatically incorrect. Even if certain phrases tend to be used incorrectly in the general public, you should keep using the correct form nonetheless.

What is grammatically correct, is what is generally used that way. This is how language works.

>>4946059
Nope. Grammar is given by rules. Whether most people follow those rules or not is irrelevant.

>>4946059
I could care less about general use.

Both are fine.

>>4946062
You don't understand language. Read a linguistics book or something.

Generally, normative grammar is dead. That's why most linguistics stick to descriptive grammars.

>>4946100
Oh wow, that's mighty interesting. Please continue.

But I mean, why should one be CORRECT? Who decided what the rule was? It's not like it's an objective fact. I understand languages need rules and guidelines to be massively understandable but stuff also changes over time.

But isn't the second one correct? The subject isn't just "large number" but "large number of patients".

>>4946115
duuuude, what if language was just a thing, man? just a thing you can feel? Whoooaa

A large number of patients suffer from lymphoma, they suffer from cancer

Third person plural.

>>4946181
Do you even grammer?

>>4946115
Welcome to the English language, where the rules are made up and arbitrary, and the grammar makes no sense.

>>4946186

Can you link me the rule that states that a group should be considered third person singular? And if so in which cases this rule applies?

If so I will have learned something.

>>4946209
Could you show me how "a large number" is plural? It doesn't say "large numbers".

>>4946213

I know what you are getting at, and I've encountered this issue a lot of times when writing papers. I've looked in a lot of places and haven't found a satisfying answer, in all cases it seemed to depend on the context and the meaning of the sentence.

There seems to be a difference between:
>A large number of citizens votes
and
>A large number of patients suffer from secondary lymphoma after treatment

In the former the large number is the subject, in the latter the subjects are the patients in this large number.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to listen (because this has been annoying me for a couple of years now)

>>4946259
>There seems to be a difference between:

This is an observation. Can you explain it?

>>4946192
lel

Don't write "patients suffers" because you'll sound like an idiot.

>>4946273

You know what I'm trying to say with the post I made, so if you are 100% certain that there is no difference and you can motivate it, just go ahead and say it.

Anyway:

>A significant amount of the samples have a mutation in P53, so they can be considered at risk
>Samples 1, 2, 3, 4,... have a mutation in P53, so they can be considered at risk.

>>4945621
I'm pretty sure the subject in this sentence is "number," not "patients." "Of patients" is part of a preposition and it cannot be the subject. Because "number" is singular, it would be "suffers."

Hello /sci/, I got a bit of a circuits problem blowing my mind...

According to how joule heating is described, the temperature of an element in a circuit is dependent on the current flowing through it.
It would seem that 12v 2a is the same temperature as 6v 2a.

However, according to power dissipation, the amount of heat dissipated is P=IV. Which would imply the 12v 2a.

How is this possible?

>>4945619
"of patients" is an adjetive, not a subject. Deal witit.

>>4946288
Sound advice, much like 'don't write "the bucket of eggs fall down", because you'll sound like an idiot'. What's better about that advice is that it's actually relevant to this thread.