/sci/ - Science & Math

But why?

Define "race".

This is irresponsible statistical bullshit at its worst. One could wonder wether the tests accurately assess the intelligence or the abilities of subjects, but this is not even the most obvious flaw. Any test failing to take in account the socioeconomic background of subjects will be a failure. Can you really be sure that the black subjects tested were not, in the average, worse off (in matter of economic situation and access to education) than the other ? This matter a lot whenever it comes to academic and/or psychotechnical tests.
And then there's the problem of representative sample: how many people, and from which places, does it take to represent accurately the american society ? Is really 1000 or 10000 enough ? How are chosen the subjects ?
And finally there's the problem of biologically defining race. Biologists have largely agreed, over the past century, that race wasn't a relevant notion in biology: it just doesn't mean anything.

Long story short, this kind of test isn't worth consideration, even the more so than we know nothing about how the results were obtained.

In before "Society's fault if I am dumb and lazy". Oh wait, I am late:

> Any test failing to take in account the socioeconomic background of subjects will be a failure.

>>4915692
So what ? Poor people are lazy because they can't afford to go to college ? I'm just saying ranking people who don't have access to the same education in the same test doesn't make sense. If you really want to compare the performance and white and black people (whatever actual interest it may have) compare people attending the same school and belonging enjoying roughly the same income.
And, as you probably have noticed, there much more than just this objection to the relevance of this test/

>>4915655

What's the sample size on these tests, exactly?

>>4915684

Not only that, but such a test cannot account for what effects several differences in the ways whites and black people interact in all facets of our culture could have on their attitudes towards life (there is a distinct 'black culture' after all)

>>4915702
There are public libraries and internet, which means there is absolutely no excuse for staying stupid. Income is irrelevant. But of course the idiots who do not care about education fail to get well-paying jobs, which means that poorfags are not the most promising candidates for intelligence either. The point is: Education is the cause of good income, not the other way round.

>>4915655
This is /sci/, douchebag, at the very least use haplogroups or admit you're trolling with pseudoscience.

>>4915717 Not only that, but such a test cannot account for what effects several differences in the ways whites and black people interact in all facets of our culture could have on their attitudes towards life (there is a distinct 'black culture' after all)
There is even a TV cable network for blacks. And it is not famous for airing science reports.

Not a surprising result considering "IQ tests" are based on problems with a eurocentric bias.

Read: white

Not a surprising result considering "IQ tests" are based on problems with a eurocentric educational bias.

Read: white

>>4915732
Oh and "sauce"?

>>4915729

Yes? 'Black culture' doesn't have a particularly strong appreciation for education, that was kind of the point of my post.

>>4915732 eurocentric educational bias
You mean these tests require mathematical solutions instead of asking about the magical uses of limbs from butchered albino children?

>>4915732
oh, and source?

>>4915738
Yup, it is called "Black Entertainment Television" and airs Hip Hop, Rap Videos and stuff. Seriously, I am not making this up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Entertainment_Television

>>4915739
Anyone who's taken an IQ test (hopefully you, OP + supporters) knows there's no real math in it.

>>4915729
>implying any stations air "science reports"

>>4915742
I did an IQ test a few weeks ago. They did not give you equations you had to solve, but there were orders of numbers you had to continue. And to recognize the pattern behind them you had to master primary school math (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division).

>>4915744

Yes? I'm well aware of BET, I was waiting for you to make some kind of point. I guess there isn't one.

>>4915747
I rest my case, bro, I rest my case.

I know about the sequences, a common one is the fibonacci sequence which took a great mathematician to recognize, but which now every schoolchild knows about. But anyone who happens to NOT know about, would have trouble identifying.

Just the tip of the iceberg

>>4915745
I count anything from nature documentaries to intelligent SciFi shows.

But just for your information, there are actual formats for scientific content. Here is a German example: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-Centauri

Be careful, OP

The mods here suck giant unscientific, uneducated, peasant liberal cock

If some autist manages to report you, you will get attacked by a grotesque neckbeard mod who will tell you to "take it to stormfront, you imbecilic child", irrelevant of what empirical evidence you present to him.

According to /sci/, OP is a faggot.

>>4915721
> Education is the cause of good income, not the other way round.

You know that's not completely true even in rich democratic countries. Education tends to improve your income, but a lot of people with a bad education enjoy good income (even if they are getting rarer) and it is much harder to get quality education when you have a bad income (it also depends on wherever you live).
And having an Internet access doesn't mean you will become smart or well-educated overnight. You need a lot of time, it's much better to know where the good information is, and it's much easier in a good environment (being beaten by your parents, having to face mundane violence in the streets or having to work to support your family certainly are hinder: it's possible to succeed but it is much harder, which is why statistically academic performances are linked to social environment and income). I'm not talking about individual cases, on which you can't say anything a priori, but about populations.

>>4915729
But are there that much TV channel in America famous for airing science reports ? And who watchs them, aside from scientist ? I live in France, a country that is sometimes fancied as a land of culture and education, and most people, black or white, don't really know or care about science.

>>4915750 But anyone who happens to NOT know about, would have trouble identifying.
Trouble? You look at three numbers and look what simple mathematical operations connect them, then you check whether your idea fits to the rest. No previous knowledge needed. Also, I solved them with having plenty of time left. In fact, I found that to be by far the easiest part of the test.

If logical thinking is "White" or "European" thinking, then what exactly constitutes "Black" or "African" thinking?

>>4915757
Uh huh. I clap for thee. "No previous knowledge needed." They give sequences to 1st graders all the time, amirite? They have all the tools necessary.

>>4915755
Every single predominantly black society on this planet is primitive and violent. One can view that as a distorting factor for accurate measurement, or one can treat that as a finding itself.

>>4915760
Kids are kept dumb by their parents and accordingly by the entire education system. Why do you make that your measure?

>>4915761

>and violent

Proof? And what constitutes a "society"?

>>4915761
That's what they said about Native Americans, too amirite? owait-

I'm black & I just recently got 162/163 on my GRE so I think I'm smart enough to weigh in?

It's not easy achieving when you're black. The money/knowledge & cultural institutions just aren't there (yet). A few weeks ago I was walking around the downtown mall (shops, sidewalks, restaurants) with my mom. We saw like 6 blacks the whole time. One of my mom's friends stopped us & commented about this. If you don't understand, try living alone in a country where you stick out (eg china) for a while.

>>4915757
Black people living in Europe will get education according to the european model anyway. This is less about europeocentrism than about the relevance of IQ test in general. For instance it seems that people can score different on IQ test depending on their (and by that I mean a mundane day-to-day mood change, not an enduring traume).
The differences between European, American and Asian education system, for instance, only play out when you compare the skills of chldren from various continents.

>>4915655

black and poor you mean

but this is 100% true:

http://www.yardbarker.com/blog/olympics/article/michael_johnson_slave_descendants_have_superior_athl
etic_gene/11147126

i guess you could say its possible they could of been bred dumb intentionally or unintentionally as well, but it wouldn't be a skin town thing. maybe you should try your GPA statistics in africa. pop-statistics for lay people is laughable.

still waiting for SOURCE, OP.

>>4915768
Proof? Look at Africa. How come they are worse off on themselves than under "white" supervision?

>>4915769
Yeah, American Indians, Aborigines and Maori are not exactly renowned for their intelligence. They are quite fond of drugs, unemployment and screaming "White Privilege!" though.

>>4915777
It is the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

>>4915787
Or maybe they are so civilized they don't even put up a fight. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

>>4915761
It would be a point if you knew anything about those societies. There are a lot of rather peaceful african ethnies, such as the pygmies. Basically, people behave violently when given the occasion to be violent, as long as there is no drawback (such as punishment). The U.S has by far the highest murder rate among developped nations (it is actually almost of the same order as the murder rate of a country undergoing a civil war). Isn't that violent enough for you ? Dangerous isn't a matter of black and white, but of how angry, hungry and/or greedy you are, and of how easy it will be for you to get away with violence.

>>4915655
> According to scientific research, black race is the least intelligent of all races.

"black" is a rather large population. There are groups that score lower than american blacks. Obviously, since american blacks have ~20% white genes, thus increasing their intelligence.

Try checking out the Bushmen in Africa and the Aboriginies. Those are the lowest scoring groups as far as I know.

Ashkenazi Jews are the highest scoring.

>>4915787

>Proof? Look at Africa.

Africa is a gigantic place filled with thousands of societies. You have provided me with dogshit, not 'proof'.

>How come they are worse off on themselves than under "white" supervision?

I don't know, there must be hundreds of factors at play (the effects of colonialism is a big one)

>>4915684
>Long story short, this kind of test isn't worth consideration, even the more so than we know nothing about how the results were obtained.

Fucking hell. Do some research before writing such trash. The data in OP is well known and from a very well known transracial adoption study.

Do the bare amount of research or something. Read the relevant Wikipedia pages.

This is the best paper about the subject currently. http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/pppl1.pdf

>>4915792
The data looks to me like, primarily a function of who your adoptive parents were. Which only supports that your parents are most likely to put you in schools which happen to prepare you best for said IQ tests.

Care to weigh in?

>>4915812
Oh and the nail in the coffin appears to be this:

"The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study examined the IQ test scores of 130 black/interracial children adopted by advantaged white families."

>black/interracial
>testing without racial bias

>>4915812
Then you're not looking hard enough. Yes, child scores are affected by parent SES and IQ. This effect disappears with time, and at adulthood it is completely gone. Parenting and SES has NO, ZERO long-lasting effects on intelligence. Only genes+epigenetics and non-shared environment has in the ratio 80/20.

>>4915787
And jews used to be reknowned for drinking young christian girls'blood. Turned out it wasn't true.
The real problem of Maoris, Aborigenes and American Indian is that they had never the brilliant idea of inventing the machingun and testing its efficiency on human populations. I guess being almost exterminated and then left behind but the new owner of the land doesn't particularly lift up your spirits. This have already been repeated a million times, but this is still true. American Indian weren't alcoholic and didn't do drug before they were slaughtered. They had a culture and they worked pretty hard to live with it. Blaming a people for what is actually a social problem will not make thing any better.

>>4915794 The U.S has by far the highest murder rate among developped nations
Because they have loads of Black people. If you take out Blacks from crimes or educational results, the statistics look very different.

>>4915821
Mmmhm, and the data ends at age 17. So you have effectively said nothing.

>>4915824
The social problem of Aborigines, Indians and Maori is that they are Aborigines, Indians and Maori. "I am lazy and stupid because my ancestors got killed" is nothing but a lame excuse. If Europeans, Americans or Jews thought that way, they would be failures as well.

>>4915824
These fancy X-theories never work, and generally are not supported with any evidence. There is not a shred of evidence of this theory is true, neither for blacks or any other actual or imagined discriminated against group.

Hell, if this theory worked... then blacks in Africa should be quite smart, since there are no more whites suppressing them as there used to be. At least, relative to american blacks. Even american blacks did not get smarter after segregation ended in the US.

These kind of X-theories are always offered in response to actual theories with empirical support. They never work.

It is time to meet reality.

>>4915826
>Mmmhm, and the data ends at age 17. So you have effectively said nothing.

One can clearly see a trend line, as with other studies.

No, it does not follow that I have said nothing. You need to into logic. This is not the only study. Do some basic research.

>>4915812
If it is all about upbringing, there should be no difference at all between adopted Blacks and others. Of course one can always claim that it was "structural discrimination" or whatever.

>>4915833
My research? Every african-american person I have met has been nice and considerate to me, and just as intelligent if not more.

So I stand by the fact that culture and upbringing plays a significant role in 'intelligence', as defined here.

>>4915838 So I stand by the fact that culture and upbringing plays a significant role in 'intelligence', as defined here.
Of course it does. Even the Minnesota study suggests that. Who doubts that?

>>4915833
My research? Every african-american person I have met has been nice and considerate to me, and just as intelligent if not more.

So I stand by the fact that culture and upbringing plays a significant role in 'intelligence', as defined here. It is you, who should be getting off the internet and doing some research.

>>4915842
You are trying to prove racial superiority, stop fooling. You doubt, what I am standing by.

>>4915847
There is no contradiction in that. You can admit that upbringing plays a significant role while simultaneously recognizing that there are very apparent race patterns when it comes to crime and intelligence. So where do you see a problem?

>>4915853
Race, race, race. No rational person thinks this way, only the bitter. Do you always remember thinking this way, sir? I'll leave it at that.

>Justification for your own crimes, is what it is

http://nig.gr/7d6
>In the US, there is a large stubborn Black-White differential in intelligence. This differential, on the individual and population level, explains a large portion of the social outcome difference. Within populations, intelligence is highly heritable. As such, the behavioral genetic default is that this differential also has a high heritability. It could be otherwise, though. As such, facts on the ground were explored and environmental explanations were evaluated. The facts include: (1) the difference is a true difference in psychometric intelligence, (2) it largely represents a difference in the general factor, (3) it has shown great persistence, having decreased little in the last century, (4) there is currently regression with age, (5) there appears to be a robust biological component to the difference, (6) the difference shows a Spearman/Jensen Effect, (7) biometric analysis indicates that the gap has a sizable genetic component, (8) the difference is not caused by environmental influences unique to one or the other populations, (9) if environmental influences are causing the gap they act fairly uniformly across the population, (10) the difference is no smaller at the upper SES levels than the lower, (11) family influences can not explain the difference, statistically explaining a decreasing amount with age, (12) Mixed race individual perform intermediate to monoracial individuals and this phenomena has been noted for centuries, (13) the Difference correlates with physical indexes of Caucasian admixture in the Black population, and (14) environmental interventions appear to show little to no lasting effect. Causal biological explanations were then explored and found to be wanting, capable of explaining at most 1/15th of the gap.

>>4915655
Why do you fuckers insist on shitting up this board with awful threads? There is room for actual intellectual discussion on /sci/ and you motherfuckers are making threads about racial inferiority.

>>4915860

>it says differential, so you know it's sciencey!

>>4915859
It is interesting to compare various social groups to each other. Not my fault when reality disproves the dogma of equality and instead shows that there are significant differences.

>>4915894
get to the part where you plan to do something about something

>>4915938
Not my job to save the black race. But if I were wealthy and a teacher, I would handpick the smartest kids regardless of skin color to save hem from public schools.

>>4915948
>I would handpick the smartest kids regardless of skin color to save hem from public schools.

Teach For America is already doing that. No miracle test-score increases reported as of yet.

>least intelligent
>not least interested in abstract thought on average

Chalk it up to general thought process but if a society or "race" is not interested in "thinking in abstract" on average then them not doing good on IQ test is no big surprise. Nor is it no particular big worry honestly. There are still a decent amount of "blacks" who are intellectually high or interested. It just means on average you will have more "workers" than "intellectuals" coming into the mix.

As long as you don't try to generalize and punish a person because he or she is from particular "race" then thats all that matters.

Everyone may not be created equal but that doesn't give
you or me the inherent right to treat them badly because of it. If we did we wouldn't be so civilized now would we?

we have a board for this now...

>>4915948
wasnt asking you to save our black brothers.
just wondering what you thought 'followed' from this information.

so we know how things *are* , what *should* we do about it?

>>4915961
thats because a teachers performance doesnt correlate to a childs performance.
why do people think this is the case?
teachers, good or bad, dont impact shit.

private schools only do better because they can kick out retards and troublemakers. public schools cant do that.
(they can kick out individual retards that then go to some other pub. school)

dont let the facts get in the way of your well-researched-proposals.