/sci/ - Science & Math

No shit Sherlock.
Stormfags are not correct, however, because they like to believe in laughably stupid things such as "master races" and "this race is more _evolved_ than that one".

>>4880014
I said "basically correct" not "correct" - meaning there are differences in temperment (for example) between different groups.

>they like to believe in laughably stupid things such as "master races" and "this race is more _evolved_ than that one"
Well obviously some of them take that stuff seriously, but I'm sure some of them just say those things to mean that one group is better than another, which is a reasonable conclusion to make if the premise of group differences (races for lack of another term) are correct. For example: more intelligent, and less violent = better.

That's different to being a "master race" or being "more evolved" in a literal sense however, so I agree with you there that the terminology is stupid.

Still, is this study wrong?

>>4880056
I don't see why it would be, that's kinda just how evolution works

Wait, the university of UTAH believes in evolution? WTF.

>>4880068
So why do scientists vehemently deny the existence of race?

>>4880138
Because it is hard to quantify such a thing without making assumptions about race in the first place. It usually ends up terribly circular.

>>4880138
Because classifying people based on skin colour is pants on head retarded.

I think most people already knew this. It doesn't really have anything to do with being a "stormfag," though.

>>4880148
"Too hard" in other words? Why not just say that instead of pretending race doesn't exist?

>>4880149
It would seem to me to be absolutely necessary for antrhopology and other related sciences, not to mention important in determining solutions to social problems such as crime and poverty.

It seems to me that most scientists are just being dishonest and are too scared to even contemplate the idea of race. I mean it wasn't that long ago that James Watson was forced to retire when he simply remarked that Africans have lower intelligence based on IQ testing.

>>4880171
because if you cannot satisfactorily prove race exists you shouldn't go around assuming it does any more than God or unicorns.

>>4880171
No Watson was forced to retire when he declared without evidence that the discrepancy was genetic in origin.

>>4880171
>"Too hard" in other words?
Not him, but genetic sequencing of every single person you classified. Not to mention that you'd have to define rules for classification into each race (ignoring the fact that completely new mutations are created every second of every day so they'd have to be updated constantly).

>social problems such as crime and poverty.
>social problems
That's what they are, NOT genetic problems

>>4880171
>Why not just say that instead of pretending race doesn't exist?
Why pretend that race does exist? The term "race" has a ton of political, moral and ethical baggage that has nothing to do with science. You're fishing for evidence to support a social construct which was created long before genetics was even a science. The fact that you automatically associate skin color with "race" in a genetic sense indicates to me that you don't have a very good grasp of the subject.

>not to mention important in determining solutions to social problems such as crime and poverty
>opinions

>>4879991
How does different races evolving away from each other make stormfags correct?

>generated fears such research will undermine the principle of human equality
ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SOME RACE LIVES IN ITS OWN SHIT THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THOSE THAT CREATED OUR CIVILIZATION

>>4880240
It recognises the fact that distinct races do exist and they're actually evolving to be even more different. How could this happen if there wasn't any biological difference between races in the first place?

>>4880191
>>social problems
>That's what they are, NOT genetic problems
If the study shows that different groups have different temperaments (meaning some are more aggressive for example) due to genetics, then it's a social problem with a possible GENETIC cause. Pic related.

>>4880184
He implied that, he didn't say that, if I remember correctly. But the point still stands even if it isn't because of genetic factors - their IQ is still lower based on testing.

Let's just drop any talk of difference in intelligence, and worry about temperament. For example attention span, persistence, distractability, etc. are temperament traits. That may affect learning, which may affect IQ, etc.

>>4880179
Is that not satisfactory enough?

>>4880198
>The term "race" has a ton of political, moral and ethical baggage that has nothing to do with science.
Exactly. The baggage has nothing to do with science, which is why it shouldn't impinge on it (science should ignore the baggage).

>The fact that you automatically associate skin color with "race" in a genetic sense indicates to me that you don't have a very good grasp of the subject.
I don't associate skin color with race. There's actually still a "racial classification" used in some sciences. The races are given colors for shorthand (such as red or yellow) but complexion can vary a great deal within the race and skin tone is not necessarily a marker of who belongs to that race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_definitions_of_race#Johann_Friedrich_Blumenbach

>>4880171
>he simply remarked that Africans have lower intelligence based on IQ testing
That's assuming IQ tests aren't incredibly biased to begin with. They're based around a local understanding of intelligence, involving mostly math, 3d shapes on a 2d surface and writing. All constrained by a time limit.
I don't know if that's part of the reason he retired, but making an assumption based on an intelligence test that doesn't even take more than a few means of communication into consideration seems inherently flawed.

>stormfags correct
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

>>4880275
race, especially as applied to humans, is not well defined. It is not a useful scientific descriptor.

Further the problems in defining race usually cause us to appeal to the clearest cut delineations, but doing so ignores the continuum that lies between.

Is a Swede the same race as Norwegian? as a Southern Italian? are Mediterranean people on the north of Africa African? We could devise a genetic test, but this would presume we could define genetic components of race without first defining race.

What are our races? the classical 19th century races of Caucasian, mongoloid and negroid? Or what?

race is not a useful term as far as human genetics go, that's all. Yes there are variations between human populations, but the meaning of race in regard to this is unclear.

>>4880277

That's very specious reasoning. But if you'd rather a hypothetical think about this. Why is modern Africa, a continent rich in natural resources, so dependant kf foreign aid and seemingly unable to care for themselves. Look at Europe a thousand years ago, and look at Africa today and ask around which group of people would you rather live

>We are getting less alike, not merging into a single, mixed humanity.

Genetic drift is such that this isn't happening. The Utahan anthropology professor is fighting against scientific consensus.

>>4880323
Africa today, no question.

>>4880323
its hard to domesticate a rhino or a lion, much easier to domesticate cows and pigs

also, because of the orientation of the african continent, trading back and forth between tribes and the cultivation of crops was far more difficult due to the changes in elevation in climate

europe has the benefit of being align along the same latitude for miles and miles

>>4880327
there is no scientific consensus on the distribution of random mutations, this is absurd

now if there were some reproductive barrier that lasted for centuries and centuries, obviously populations would drift apart

nobody would dispute this, and nobody is challenging any scientific consensus on the matter

>>4880329

The nation where 'people' kidnap and drug children to act as child soldiers, practice cannibalism, and rape babies to cure AIDS?

Liberal logic is retarded.

>>4880331
Aurochs and wild boars are not nice

>>4880336
>nation

Dude europe 1000 years ago would be terrible, south africa would be fine so long as you're not a woman.

>university of Utah

>>4880323
Are you going to tell me the average African culture is the same as for example an average European culture?
Someone who is primarily taught through means of music, thinks differently than someone who is taught primarily through means of writings.

Also, Africa today. It's a big place, with better developed countries than medieval Europe.

We may be evolving but racism is still bullshit because a pale swede could have sex with a jet black african and a healthy baby would be the result. Different species cannot reproduce without a lot of assistance, and even then they have to be really similar.

>a local understanding of intelligence, involving mostly math, 3d shapes on a 2d surface and writing

what a profound feat of equivocation, you must be white.
It is certainly the case that iq cannot predict who will be the best hunter gatherer or whether you will accept jesus christ into your heart or hear the voices under the mountain. It will predict ones propensity for math, 3d shapes on a 2d surface and writing or as we call it in the developed world, intelligence.

>>4880336

>africa
>nation

Oh god, my sides. You know "africa" is a white invention, right? Actually, so is "asia"

>>4880359

>4chan

THANK YOU! everything is a white invention, that what we have been saying.

>European or Asian descendants

>aftermath of the future great migration of African descendants

>>4880439
You're assuming that's the only way of being intelligent. Is someone who is illiterate, but a musical genius a retard? What about two people who have trouble solving a problem alone, but while working together can solve anything? IQ tests don't account for that.

>>4880466

Holy shit, a reasonable post regarding IQ...

>>4880466
Sure. But at the societal level, low population IQs are correlated with low quality of life in just about any metric you can think of except maybe happiness.

Africa is the way it is in large part due to millions of not-to-bright people in aggregate, and left to their own devices, being unable to order a functioning society.

It doesn't help that the best and brightest in the 3rd world peace the fuck out to better places to live, but that only supports the idea that it's the glut of idiots left that makes sustained progress impossible.

>>4880466
Who are these to mythical idiots who can combine their idiocy to solve any problem?

>>4879991
How does the last line make sense when there is essentialy no isolation among those continents and in the future there will likely be even less?
People have children with other people from other continents all the time.

>>4880296
>race. . .is not a useful scientific descriptor.
But that's wrong, you fucking retard.

>>4880275
>Pic related.

But the picture you showed is of black people involved in rioting and looting in the UK last year. And yet, people from all races were involved in that rioting and looting.

When you simply come out with far-fetched theories and opinions, it's possibly to believe that you are inadvertently wrong; but when you attempt to prove those theories with a such highly selective pictures, which offer a very distorted image of a particular event, it really just seems like you're an ignorant racist.