/sci/ - Science & Math

One becomes intellectual by being wrong, and learning from it.

Depends on your definition

Oh, also to have an open mind, willingness to learn, and to try new things.

>>4844726
that's true

>>4844723

But /sci/ is always right

>>4844740
Not when it comes to the matters of the heart

Starts with the question of "How?" "Why?" Do this to everything and you can become intellectual

1. Do mathematics everyday. Forget chess, sudoku etc. Those are for pussies and don't teach you anything useful or interesting. Time spent on math is always beneficial and gives you tools to understand physics, economics, biology etc.

2. Read books... a lot. If you can read one book everyday that's great. I don't think reading Hawking's books teach you much about physics but reading Noam Chomsky or Niall Ferguson wil teach you a lot about politics and economics. Fiction is also important but I'd keep the ratio between fiction and non-fiction at about 1:3 or 1:2.

3. Read news and keep up with current affairs. Most important. You'll be much more interesting as a person if you can comment on current affairs and have meaningful discussions about them. You should be ready to explain your country's politics and history to total stranger and comment on them. It's a great way to test people intelligence by asking about politics. If they say they don't care or it's useless, don't waste anymore time on those kind of people.

>>4844770
Just wanted to add that don't do anything you're not interested in but do your best to get interested in everything.

>>4844777
Also don't neglet your physical attirbutes.

>>4844770
thanks for the serious answer. Most of my time i spend playing vidya and when im not in a situation were i can do that i read, and when i read, its fiction. I cant help it, there just so interesting. Im going to finish the dark tower series and song of ice and fire but then thats it. The vidya is a whole other issue because its a form of stress relief for me. Escapism if you will.

>>4844793
Have you considered channelling the need for escapism into something that can help you for this pursuit?
Video games drain my possible learning time, too. ; ;

>>4844793
>>4844802
Think of the game you always wanted to play as a kid and learn to program it. You have nothing to lose and no one to impress

>>4844802
Im not sure how i would go about that. I could probably put myself in a situation where i cant play them. Maybe go hang at a public library or hide them out of sight? I dont think i have the will power to sell or get rid of them.

By being pompous and holier than thou

By not trying to be one.

what signs do you look for in yourself that support your belief that you are an intellectual

>>4844810
Libraries are great. Honestly I can double my concentration and study time whenever I'm in library. Usually I can study 2 hours straight at my apartment but in library, especially on weekends, I can extend that to 4-6 hours. It's a serious problem for many that they can't focus at in their own home because of the distractions like vidya. That's why it's so important to find a place where you can focus and can go regulary.

>>4844793
Read fiction before going to bed and make a habit out of it. I had the same problem but nowdays I don't feel so compelled to read fiction because I know I'll get my dose in the evening and I can focus on other things before that. Think of it as a treat that you allow yourself after a good hard day of studying and working.

Just a few words about vidya. It's one of the hardest things to overcome in the context of studying. My method was that I only played serious competitive games like Street Fighter and the Smash Bros Series so that whenever I played it was serious practicing or "sparring" with a friend. I'm not saying it wasn't enertaining but it had a whole different feel than playing WoW, X-Com or whatever 12 hours straight. Those games force you to think and be active all the time. Nowdays I barely even play vidya. I go to tournaments and meets from time to time but that's enough for me. Plus I don't even want play more passive games anymore and I quickly give up on games that are too simple and passive.

Try to be without vidya for one month, focus on you studies and after that ask yourself: Was that so bad? Did I miss something important because I didn't play or did I miss something before because I played so much?

by watching the big bang theory!

Basically you want to become a renaissance man. Go to art of manliness dot com and look for "How To Be A Renaissance Man".

Life becomes much more interesting the more you know about the world. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, they are just fools who rather go on with their business of making money and wasting it on useless material things.

>>4844777
This

>>4844912

Good post. Decent thread so far, apart from the obvious idiots.

bumping for the early birds

By using big words other people find hard to understand.

>>4844719
>>4844719
You don't just want to be an intellectual. You want to be a person with a lot of operational knowledge. That want to be the kind of person which has developed a theoretical framework into which you can gather the information with which you are bombarded and put it so that you can infer more about it than what you would normally have.

I believe this start with the build up of a basic mastery of any one subject. I say basic mastery, because the most important thing I believe one can do, and this in any subject, is to understand its most recurrent aspects so as to be able to recognize all of their implications.

It doesn't really matter that you learn word. It only matter that you develop the appropriate complex of meaning around those word.

I believe the most basic skill you can acquire is learning to read. "I can read", you're thinking. I get that you can decipher sound from visual symbol, but can you extract the logical relations which are laid out in a text? Can you recognize equivocity? Can you identify the thesis, if any? Can you recognize the different meaning of the word "is"?

Does anyone else think intellectuals are fucking boring to be around because they worry too much about how smart they seem?

It's like they are characters on the big bang theory.

>>4844977
Oh yes and one last thing: do not keep up with current affair. Ever.
Do a quick test (i assume you've generally kept up with current affair): what's the actionable knowledge you've gained from consuming news?

PhD

>>4844978
That's called a pseudointellectual.

Well, maybe not, but generally if someone is putting on a pretense they cannot actually put their money where their mouth is. Or however that saying went.

But this is the same for all people. Some people more than others fear for breaking their image, in some relations more than others. It is not just about trying really hard to appear smart. Some do, and not all are smart. For myself I know no smart persons but I know many that try. Myself included. I am smart though.

It's not just about pretending smartness. It may be appearance. The importance of perfect hair, or being a good christian.

Space is a terrible thing to waste.

>>4844770
I consider myself to have "some" intelligence, but I really cannot stand to listen to the news or read the paper. I know what I want to know about, but far more than 90% of the articles and issues discussed on the news I have no interest about.

What do I do then? :l

Everyone in this thread telling you to cut down on fiction is an idiot. You cannot be an intellectual and be ignorant of literature proper, which is almost entirely fiction. Start reading books that explore areas that you aren't familiar in. This will be difficult. Start with Cat's Cradle and Slaughterhouse-Five, both by Kurt Vonnegut. I find Vonnegut to be the best introduction to proper literature for nearly everyone. After that, ask /lit/ what to read next. You should read some Dostoevsky at some point, which will be more difficult than Vonnegut.

As far as reading itself goes; read at least two books at a time, but never by the same author, because that can get confusing. Don't read both Vonnegut books at the same time. Don't read more than three books at a time. Read at the very least 50 pages a day. It may seem hard at first, but in time you will be going through a few hundred a day without really noticing it. Anything less and you are not reading the book, you are laboring through it like a bored student. Never skim. Don't fold page corners, use bookmarks you fucking heathen.

Also do not neglect your other studies.

>>4845052

Learn to understand people and politics, but pay little attention to United States politics. I have found that my peers who have detailed knowledge of the way our politics work are often narrow-minded and incapable of critical thinking. Followers, not leaders, in other words. Still, you need to know what politics is like, so read Hardball, by Chris Matthews. It's fairly neutral, and it's very short and easy to understand.

Ignore people who aspire to be part of the government. I have never met someone like that who was not simple-minded and obsessed with hierarchy and authority. They seek to hold intellectual checkmate over people through the power of authority, and not through actual merit. It is a false veil of intelligence. For that reason, avoid student governments (if you're going to college) and debate clubs.

>>4844981
>what's the actionable knowledge you've gained from consuming news?
Just what the fuck do you even mean? By your logic, shouldn't we ask that question about physics, math, biology, chemistry, poetry etc. What does actionable knowledge even stand for? I learned from boxing how to punch people in the face, I guess that's actionable knowledge?
>>4844978
This has nothing to do with intellectuals or maybe just a small portion of them. Intellectuals are those who you can listen for hours and hours without getting bored.
>>4845083
I recommended to read more factual books but I also agree with this post. I guess you have to find your own balance between fiction and non-fiction.
>>4845052
Lot of people find politics and current affairs boring because they don't understand it. My method is this: Read an article about some law that is important and is in process. Now go to wikipedia and study what that law means and does. Also look up every word you don't understand and try to memorize them. Khan Academy has some videos about economics and politics that are useful. If you're from Europe, study what the current crisis is about and what's going on in Greece. If you're from America, try to study what Obama is doing for the economy and why people are resisting his plans etc. You just have to immerse yourself in the world of economics and politics, imo it's your duty as a citizen.

Also find people who you can talk about these things. I get together with two of my friends every week or so to talk about these things and it's really enjoyable as long as everyone is reading the news and keeping up with the information. Honestly talking politics to me is far more exciting than talking about hockey or football which I both like very much.

>>4845108

>egotistical faggot alert
>egotistical faggot alert
>egotistical faggot alert

>>4845091
Correlation is not causation.

OP, I don't quite know what to do to become an intellectual, but I think not listening to this guy might be a good start.

>>4845108

that's why you don't have any real friends and probably die alone.

>>4844729
Yes

>>4845114

>>4845129
And how does that relate to my advice or this discussion? And why do you care if I die alone without any real friends

The first stage is
1. Edgyness
Then you get to
2. Deepness

>>4845108
>Also look up every word you don't understand and try to memorise them.
Programmer here, just popping into say that was the worst thing when I beginning at anything, particularity programming.
I'd be reading a guide and then bam, they use some word that I have no idea what it means and I'm stuck.

>>4845145
You don't instantly have to pick up wikipedia. I usually keep a list of words I don't know and look them up later. It is of course more important to understand the broader idea than single words but like studying a language, you just have to work through the basic vocabulary first before you can form sentences.

>>4845149
Another problem is though, it's like dependencies with programs.
You'll just want to know the meaning of a word, then you need to know the meaning of another to know that word and sometimes it can go on, a lot.

>>4845108
>Just what the fuck do you even mean?

Knowledge you can use to either do something or understand a real phenomena (as opposed to people who believe they know something because they remember some words in a book).

New is terrible to learn anything since it's just the bombardment of random, disjointed facts and interpretation (the news you'll get tomorrow is logically unrelated to the news you got today etc). As such, new and current event is the accumulation of knowledge which does not reinforce itself. It doesn't add up to anything.

If you want to be "an intellectual", then what's important is to build different system of understanding (theoretical template in which you insert the raw facts of the world).

>>4845155
>If you want to be "an intellectual", then what's important is to build different system of understanding (theoretical template in which you insert the raw facts of the world).
Interesting.

Politics and news always change. That's why it's not that interesting to an intellectual mind. It's entertaining, and allows people like some of you to be big headed.

That's why you care being "instesting as a person", which is not at all what being an intellectual is all about.

>>4845155
That's why I recommended non-fiction books about economics and politics. I agree with you but it really doesn't take that long to get basic grips on economy, politics etc. I don't claim to understand everything I read on the news but everyday I understand more and more because I read the news and study the subjects.

1. Read news.
2. Read books
3. Discuss with people
4. Repeat

>>4845173
I disagree. News and politics are interesting when you are able to see beyond short-term events and regonize long-term patterns. It's not interesting to talk about people but it's relatively intersting to talk about events and extremely interesting when you see beyond events into ideas. It's interesting when you can predicts political moves and acts. It's interesting when you gather everything you know and try to predict what's going to happen economically to your country for example.

Maybe I somehow miscommunicated but what I mean is that becoming an interesting person is part of you road to become and intellectual, renaissance man or whatever. At least I like it when people are actually interested on what I have to say and we can discuss things on an equal level without someone saying "but all politics is bullshit cause my mom said so". Besides it's much easier to relate with other people when you know something about everything. Which one do you prefer? 1. "Ohh you study physics, I was never good at it in HighSchool" 2. "You study physics? That's interesting, can you explain to me what Higg's Boson is all about?".

We have reached a new level of deepness.

Patterns are interesting. News are a way of testing patterns, but it seems to be obviously umpredictable when it would be insteresting.

Intellectual shouldn't care with being good speaking, which you keep mentionning.

Metaphysical studies, science research, actually creating something, art, is what makes an intellectual to me. Not looking smart to date bitches.

I tell people that I'm pseudo-intellectial when they ask. It makes thek realize that although they may think themselves of that status, they can always be humbled.

As for politics, it's definately a good idea to follow politics if you critically think about them. DO NOT agree with economic policy until you yourself can prove it maths. Think about ethics and justice with different definitions. For example, consider justice as a debt payment.

>>4845155 Here

Whenever learning something, it seems to me as thought there is always a two way street you must always keep crossing.

From Abstraction to Concrete
From Concrete to Abstraction

The problem with news is that they offer (some) Concrete and almost no Abstraction what so ever.

So, for instance, in 2008-2009, banks had trouble unloading their assets in the market, resulting in a "credit freeze". Fair enough.

But not being able to "unload asset" is...what? A surplus (Concrete to Abstraction). Knowing some economic theory, we can answer the question "when do surplus happens?". Usually when prices is too high relative to demand, usually through price fixing. So now we must look: was there some sort of price fixing going on at that time? (Abstraction to Concrete).

And we do found that yes, there was some sort of price fixing through accounting machination. Banks didn't want to recognize that their assets were worth much less than what it looked on paper, so they kept the price artificially high through lax accounting standard (so private price fixing leads to surplus).

So, then, one thing the bank said during that time was that their price was justified, that is, it reflected the true value of their asset but the market was impaired. Now, what do they mean? They mean that, somehow, demand was temporarily impaired (Concrete to Abstract). Well, if that's true, then giving money to people would restore demand which would get those financial asset moving again. Hence the Fed flooding the market with money and the TARP program (Abstract to Concrete). But did those asset start to move again based on private demand alone? No? Then what does it mean?

And so on and so forth.

>>4845083
Indeed, don't fold corners, use bookmarks you fucking heathen.

Seriously quotable line there.

>>4845215
Doing science or art doesn't not exclude anything I talked about. I never talked about "dating bitches" so keep that straw man to yourself. Being good at speaking is essential even if the concept is rather vague. What does it matter what you discover in science if you can't communicate it with others? Besides being "good at speaking" doesn't mean you have to be some kind of slick Dapper Dan who hits on women everyday and everybody likes him. Just basic social skills and the ability to transform complex ideas into simple analogies etc. is enough

What people seem to misunderstand (on purpose?) is that one should become an intellectual just to impress people which is completely wrong and you all know it. To me an intellectual should be an individual who is able to talk about important matters ( politics, economics...) outside his profession. He should be able to explain those things and defend his or her own opinion of the matter. One should work hard to understand more and more about the world and people living in it and be ready to be challenged on his or her ideas. Intellectual person regards learning as the most important thing and everything else comes after that but that doesn't mean discussion, criticism and dialogue aren't important. They are essential but learning itself is the basis for everything else. Chasing women, impressing men or boosting your ego have nothing to do with my idea of a intellectual.

I hope OP got what he wanted even if this thread blundered after a promising start.

First you must be edgy

Eat the brains of a scientist. Gain his powers.

>>4845155
I share your view completly

>>4844719
One becomes an intellectual by asking the question "How does one become an intellectual?" and meaning it. I applaud your search, OP, just don't stop searching.

There's some useful information here.

http://chanarchive.org/request_votes

You need to have at least a Masters degree or else no one will take you seriously. Preferably in Science.

be fascinated with everything. except people. Intellectuals don't have a big need for people