/sci/ - Science & Math

>>4835350
Nope, it's just another example of money being wasted so intellectuals can continue to leech off people.

The confirmation of the existence of a Higgs boson allows us to now investigate the properties of this boson so we can see in which direction we should move in future research at CERN. Ah? I hope it vill turn out to be a skalar, ah you have to ah, you hav to push da large button.

>>4835362

>>4835399
Face it, this shit will never deliver anything to improve the lives of real people. Obama was retarded for wasting money on this.

>>4835454
That's what I made this thread for. What practical outcomes in terms of technology have there been?

>>4835465
None

>>4835472
CERN confirmed for black hole.

Fuck yeah

GO AMERICA

we found the higgs boson on the 4th of july

>>4835482
Yes, of funding and money. Yuropoors have no sense of priority. One maybe Higgs Boson isn't worth the Euro Zone collapsing.

1. Discover how to disable the higgs boson
2. Now massless spaceship can move at speed of light

It's like asking how you can use fire when all you've ever seen is a single spark. And you have been rubbing a twig against a log for the last week to even see that spark.

>>4835494
>implying euro zone is worth anything at all
>implying science isn't the most important thing for humanity

>>4835518
>>4835494
>Implying the Euro wasn't just a scam to create the German empire that Hitler wanted
>Implying the plan hasn't been completely successful

>>4835497

>>4835494
The cost of corporate welfare is vast compared to the amount of money poured into CERN. Seriously you cannot even compare the two.

>>4835512
>massless
Good luck with that

Damn money obsessed anti-intellectuals want the whole human race stagnant and caring about nothing but profit, shame they are not shunned like the civilization and knowledge hating scum they are.

>>4835613
Oh fuck and go live in a hippy commune. Wealth is the measure of a man's success and science won't do anything to change that.

>>4835613
This.

If 'yuropoors' are wrong for investing in this, then what the fuck does America have to show for all their wise financial decisions?

Oh wait, that's right, they're trillions of dollars in debt and intentionally pouring all surplus production down the enormous toilet that is their glorious military.

Didnt the development of the LHC create alot of new equipment that was commercially viable in the first place? The moment we conceived of electricity it had no applicable value because we had nothing that ran on electricity yet.

I mean seriously are these guys this fucking retarded? You have to walk a stairs with multiple steps to get to the next level.

>>4835628
>Wealth is the measure of a man's success
>people actually believe this

>>4835613
>profit
That's the part that amuses me. They always talk about something generating a profit, but they don't seem to care much whether that money is stimulating the economy.

>>4835645
Fuck off, you pipe-dreaming commie. There's not even any reason to jerk each other off over space flight. This planet's all we need.

>>4835653
Please stop using electricity then and all forms of technology that were once theoretical, that also means your computer.

>>4835653
>Fuck off, you pipe-dreaming commie.
Cool use of the Internet bro

>There's not even any reason to jerk each other off over space flight. This planet's all we need.
Pic related

>>4835350

CERN effectively gave us the internet.

So all these people going on about how it's a huge misappropriation money, whilst on the internet, are more wrong than they could possibly know.

How the fuck do they think scientific discovery and progress works anyway? You don't do experiments and then, pop, out comes a fully working CPU running on electricity provided by an impressively designed power-station. That shit takes time and... RESEARCH.

These people are the stupidest of stupid. They moan about the redundancy of science in complete ignorance of the fact that scientific research and discovery is reponsible for every single modern convenience they take for granted in their vapid and meaningless lives.

>>4835652
>tfw success used to mean accomplishing ones goals but the filthy capitalists decided everyone's goal is to get rich simply to be rich

>>4835739
ARPA gave us the Internet.

>>4835645
>>4835739

Fucking this. Well said, my friends.

I hope in 100 years people will be more fond of scientific progress, even if it doesn't shit out their iPhones to instagram their breakfasts instantly.

>>4835780
Not going to happen in nation's where the government and industry benefit from an ignorant populous.

>>4835756

Not without CERN it didn't.

>>4835793
>mfw yurop is doing revisionist history

>>4835454
> this shit will never deliver anything to improve the lives of real people.

As opposed to the lucrative endeavors achieved in the religious pursuit of improving the lives of imaginary people.

>>4835803

I can only imagine the feels scientists from centuries ago had when they tried to educate the masses and share the wonders of reality. How I am grateful we had these amazing people in human history.

I'm just a dumb econ student, I'll never do science but I admire people who do. It always fascinates me that such intelligent and curious people spend their time with trying to understand the world.

Thanks, bros. All of you.

>>4835811
Not leeching money from the free market in the first place has advanced technology more than this nonsense ever has.

>>4835756
The CERN gave us the World Wide Web and the first browsers and HTTP servers.

>uneducated americans

>>4835820
I'm sure spending a few years in poverty will broaden those scientists' horizons a little.

>>4835803
>implying any one organization is responsible for the interwebs as we know it today
>implying arpanet is the internet
>implying the world wide web and hyperlinking structures were not invented at CERN
>implying that if arpanet wasn't invented by the US military, other people wouldn't have figured out to transmit other shit than voice over telephone lines

>>4835833

Yes, like removing the mass from a particle and thus, be able to propel it faster than the speed of light will do nothing to human kind.

Why are you even here, I thought christians started sizzling the moment they heard the word "science"

>>4835839
That's not the fucking Internet. That's 4chan.

>>4835852
the higgs-boson does not permit faster than light travel, do you even science?

>>4835874

The Higgs is responsible for giving atoms mass.

Without mass, an object can accelerate almost infinitely.

By knowing of the Higgs Boson, we can then understand it, we can then isolate it, we can then expiriment with it. we can then remove it, add it or otherwise control it.

We could theoretical accelerate an object, like a starship by removing this mass, and accelerate faster than light. Then add this mass to slow down.

By knowing that such a particle exists and how to find it, we are on the verge of being able to also remove any form of friction from reactors, by removing the mass of atoms and coliding them. Cold fusion. And we have also isolated antimatter, which is another step in being able to fuse matter and anti-matter to create energy.

Do you even science?

>>4835874
That's not what he said, though.

>>4835899

god you're retarded. photons don't have mass and they don't travel faster than light. learn 20th century physics before you attempt to understand the higgs-boson. this is pathetic.

>>4835902

A photon IS light asshole. Tachyons however, don't have mass and can travel faster than light. Eat a bowl of dicks

>>4835899
so if it explains mass do you think it's going to give some insight to how gravity works

>>4835906
do you even understand what a tachyon is?

>>4835912
gravity and mass are two separate things. the higgs-boson does not explain gravity

>blaming scientists because jew bankers are ruining the world economy

Oh, America

>>4835902
You mean: Photons don't have rest mass.
I'm not saying I agree with that guy, but our knowledge of the higgs boson is very limited, you can't know in advance what is and isn't possible.
That being said, the chance of this research leading to FTL is negligable; but not zero.

>>4835910

Are you going to actually argue the case or are you going to keep changing the subject? Without mass, an object's mass does not increase as it approaches the speed of light. This means artificle forces, like propulsion can push it faster than light as it's mass is not increasing. And the object will continue to acclerate until mass is added. It might take a hundred years, but this discovery could lead to humans colonizing the universe.

>>4835918
Who do you think pays the scientists in the first place?

>people on /sci/ complaining about government spending money on science

>>4835925
yes, rest mass but that is assumed with e=mc^2

the higgs-boson does not at all allude to faster than light travel, that's a complete misunderstanding of the discovery. yes, 'anything is possible' but the evidence doesn't point that way so there is no logical reason to assume it will

Short term suffering for long-term gain. The affects won't be seen for a long time but they will be significant. All people can think about is themselves and their own lives when things like this are going to cause waves for their kids and grand kids. It's always happened, huge scientific discoveries always mean nothing until decades later when something is developed that makes use of it. Computers, planes, every bit of technology is based on the work of scientists decades/centuries earlier.

What good is a newborn baby?

>>4835932
you're the one who brought them up, dickwad. tachyons have absolutely no evidence to support their existence. i like how you're talking about giving force to massless objects, like that makes any sense at all

>>4835944
>tfw you won't live long enough to see this discovery put into good use

>>4835968
Exactly, why do future generations deserve something that I can't have.

>>4835953

>tachyons have absolutely no evidence to support their existence.

Welp, discussion is over. You already barely grasp the concept of thermodynamics or e=mc^2 so there's no point in continuing this.

>>4835972

You don't deserve half the shit you have access to. Most of it's built upon child labour overseas. Just be happy you can live comfortably.

>>4835972
You made let them happen.

>>4835980
please provide evidence of their existence[tachyons with ftl travel] and you will be rewarded with a nobel prize

>>4835512
>>4835899

Doesn't matter interact with a Higgs Field to create property of mass?

>>4835906

>tachyons don't have mass

Tachyons, even if they did exist, would have imaginary mass and could not interact with objects with positive mass.

>>4835992
not all mass is created by interacting with the higgs-field, it's actually a small minority of mass

Can somebody please set out in simple terms the video game improvements this will lead to, and how soon they will take effect? Will the games be mainly for the next-gen PS and XBox, or can the Higgs Boson bring about a Nintendo resurgence?

particle physics plebeian here, I'm legitimately curious as to how they've missed a particle that's 130 times as massive as a proton for this long. Does it just not interact with other particles? Does it have charge?

>>4836006
it only exists for a very short time before it decays into other particles, namely w-bosons. in fact, we cannot measure it with our current tools but only its decay

>>4835997

Really? Maybe I'm just picking and choosing but it seems weird that we've got extremely massive particles (getting close to the Top quark, and those are rare) which interact with countless other particles to give them mass, seems more likely they'd be interacting with a limitless mass-interaction field.

I guess I'm not the one writing the maths though.

>>4836013
Ok, thanks.

>>4836009
gluons are responsible for the majority of the known mass[known excludes dark matter/energy]

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2012/28/News%20Articles/1459456?ln=en

this should help

so then if the higgs boson is responsible for all mass.. where does it's mass come from?
checkmate atheists

When I'm reading this thread I'm lucky we aren't living in a real democracy.

>>4836032
pls go

>>>/b/

>>4836032

The nuances of a complicated maths equation balancing act.

This is why democracy doesn't work. These fucks actually have a vote when it comes to scientific funding.

>>4836042
Democracy doesn't work. But it's the best we have.

>>4836049

I disagree

>>4836095
Fascism doesn't work either. Things might have gone well for people (that aren't jewish or are impure) if Hitler had won the war, but there will always be resistance against a government that decides on their own. Always. And fascism doesn't really care about the poor and helpless of society, and that part of society is usually a pretty big part.

>>4836049

Prove democracy is the best. You can't.

>>4836145
Give us one decent reason why it isn't and I won't bother defending the shitty "democracy" we have.

>>4836145
All western, first world countries are democracies. Not all 2nd and 3rd world countries are. Hence, democracies are doing better right now.

>>4836143

Because America cares about its poor, right? Y'know having the highest disparity between rich and poor in the world and all.

>>4836157

Because America stockpiled nuclear weapons and scared everyone else into submission.

>>4836163
If I recall correctly, the stance of fascism, or at least Hitlers version, is that all weak elements should be destroyed and wiped out from society. If you're not strong, you're worthless for the fascistic society.

>>4836166
Why? The USSR had nuclear weapons too. Why weren't they exactly successful and America is or was?

so they finally found the goddamn particle. can we move on now?

>>4836182

Meh, makes sense. Solves a lot of the problems the world is facing today.

>>4836187

he timeline of the collapse of the Soviet Union can be traced to September 13, 1985. On this date, Sheikh Ahmed Zaki Yamani, the minister of oil of Saudi Arabia, declared that the monarchy had decided to alter its oil policy radically. The Saudis stopped protecting oil prices, and Saudi Arabia quickly regained its share in the world market. During the next six months, oil production in Saudi Arabia increased fourfold, while oil prices collapsed by approximately the same amount in real terms.

Someone royally fucked up

>"last" particle of the standard model found
>in europe
>while US celebrates independence from europe

This could not be better.

>>4836143

National Socialism did actually. Hitler thought workers and the poor (as long as they are Aryan) should receive help, but simultaneously also help themselves. He also thought that it was more important that the community helped the poor, rather than the state.

That way, the strong who were victims of their environment would be allowed to thrive, while the chronically weak would be eradicated.

>>4836334
True. But the chronically weak won't let that simply happen. Facism doesn't work. Some aspects might, but not in the long term.

>>4836340

The power of the strong is always greater than the power of the weak.

That's why Hitler could take power. And when you take eugenics in mind, the power of the strong increases even more, while the weak get eradicated.

I think they should just push the cart into the beam

>capitalism
>not working

>>4836354

It works. However, since some people think capitalism promises some happy utopia (like communism), they think that every misstep that happens under capitalism is the cause of capitalism itself.

>>4836350
But is that a successful society? Is success of mankind as a whole more important than a happy and safe life for the individual?

>>4836360
Success of mankind usually leads to, or makes easier, a happy and safe life for the individual.

>>4836359

Do you have any idea how much debt the US is in?

>>4836376
How's government taking loans to fuel the social state fault of the capitalism?
Do you even know to whom US owns most of the debt?

>>4836384

>>4835465

Nothing. Yet.

That's like giving up on electricity because we didn't get Youtube the day after we figured out how to generate it.

>>4836239

>Day before Europe announces greatest scientific discovery of the last half century

>American scientists release statement declaring "We almost did that. But then we didn't feel like it"

>>4836384

If the human element isn't considered when designing an economic system then the economic system is already flawed.

>>4836384

You are really brainwashed if you're blaming socialism for the economic problems.

>>4836431

Actually, government policies forcing banks to give loans to high-risk groups is a form of socialism (or at least state intervention, which is not free market capitalism at all).

So yeah.

>>4836428
That's why socialism will never work.
>>4836431
Well, it didn't help but it isn't the only problem.
>You are really brainwashed
I wonder who told you THAT.

>>4836439

The government didn't force them to do anything. The government can't because it's a free-market economy. It's a free-market economy because the banks fund political campaigns and put bankers IN the government.

>>4836494
>and put bankers IN the government.
And then they start regulating and controlling the economy thus killing the free market.

>See LHC thread
>The responses are talking about socialism

Never change, /sci/.

>>4836508
>socialism
>not /sci/

>>4836500

No they don't regulate anything, that is the problem. So the banks continue doing whatever the fuck they want, investing overseas and giving home loans to poor people.

>>4836510
WHY would they spend millions to put their representatives into power and then not use their position to their advantage?
It's obvious that only by regulating and controlling the economy can they put themselves at an advantage.

>>4836520

You're missing the point. An unregulated economy IS to the bank's advantage. The reason the bankers are in government is to prevent reform. Get it?

>>4836538
No because by regulating the economy they can introduce anti-competetive measures and other advantages (see: bailouts) that would help them gain even stronger position in the market.

Doing nothing is the worst thing they could possibly do.

>>4835613

indeed, Fucking scum

>>4836552
>posted from my iPad.

>>4836557

so edgy

>>4836573
>calling others fucking scum
>lol se edgy xD

>>4835497
they made it public today, not discovered.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/07/higgs_boson_announcement_from_cern_why
_the_god_particle_is_so_important_.html

>>4836547

How does regulating your business improve your business?

Corporations already receive bailouts.

I'd say they're in an ideal situation when they're free to do business as they please and receive loans from the government if they fail.

>>4836621
>I'd say they're in an ideal situation when they're free to do business as they please and receive loans from the government if they fail.
would you rather be free to do business or working in a government-guaranteed monopoly?

>>4836628

I'd rather a government interested in improving the country intervened in dodgy practices than live in the current situation where the country is run by a few corporations interested in improving their payout figures.

>>4836621
>How does regulating your business improve your business?
You don't regulate your business, you regulate the market while, being in power, you spare yourself the regulations.
>Corporations already receive bailouts.
That's because they've made regulations that make this possible.
>I'd say they're in an ideal situation when they're free to do business as they please and receive loans from the government if they fail.
You forgot to add that in the ideal situation competition doesn't exist, which is what they're after when they introduce regulations.

>>4836670
Let's make it a bit simpler:
>you put your representatives in the government
>you regulate the market
>a company is then inspected too check whether they follow all regulations
>who inspects the company? the government
>who is the government? you.

>>4836670
>You don't regulate your business, you regulate the market while, being in power, you spare yourself the regulations.
You would not get away with that.
They get away with preventing regulation by selling it as socialism through the media. So people get scared of it.
>That's because they've made regulations that make this possible.
It's because it's necessary to prevent the economy from collapsing. What would happening if a major industry leader suddenly went bankrupt and no one did anything? It already happened and it caused a global economic crisis.

>>4836682
>What would happening if a major industry leader suddenly went bankrupt and no one did anything?
One of two things:
>somebody who's better at it takes his place
or
>nobody can stay in business in that market, which means that market is no longer necessary
Either way bailouts are wrong.

>>4836682
also:
>You would not get away with that.
That's pretty laughable. People get away after bribing officials all the time.

>>4836699

You're not talking about bribing people you're talking about writing laws that cover the entire economy. Laws written by you that favour your company would not get through congress.

Anyway you're wrong. Try doing some research before taking Fox news to heart.

>>4836716
>Laws written by you that favour your company would not get through congress.
No, see: >>4836679
You write laws that affect everyone, but since you have enough power to write them then you also have enough power to not be affected.

>Anyway you're wrong.
That's it? And right after that you accuse me of letting somebody brainwash me?