/sci/ - Science & Math

Jesus is the way.

>>4803311
Marijuana.

DGAF

Meditating is for fags who like to waste time. Real men are constantly busy with science.

>>4803311

>/x/

>>4803345
but we are part of the universe, wouldnt understanding yourself help you to understand the universe

>>4803340
Not strong enough. Opiates.

You won't do it easily without much effort, after lots of practice it becomes much easier and almost addicting. You can look into hypnotism and self-hypnotism to aid your quest, but here is the best basics I can explain:

1. Sit down somewhere comfortable. Don't care where, just don't lie down you. You may fall asleep.
2. Close your eyes and allow EVERYTHING to just flow through. Like it was a on river and you are watching it go past. Be AWARE of it all, just let it go for now and don't worry.
3. Count backwards from 10 and with every number visualize and ignoring all the other things flooding your mind. Alternatively pretend you're on a elevator, each floor down from 10 to floor level will bring you deeper and deeper into to a relaxation. Each level is double the relaxation of the previous and let your body sink in .
4. Breath. The key is to breath. Breath in uniform patterns. In through your nose, out through your mouth. Steady, calm, relaxed breaths. Imagine an energy (give it a color, i like blue for this) enter through your mouth and settle in your stomach, spreading out through body (i like the veins and nervous system pattern of spreading) and visualize it turning red as it soaks up all those thoughts you let go, you need to let them go for now. Breath out through your mouth and let the red bad stuff go away. Repeat for 10 min or so.
5. You are now in the matrix. Do what you want. Mindmap, simulate, think, don't think and relax, work out all the problems in a calm analytic fashion, have mental sex, do what you want. You are now God of your own domain.

Disclaimer: This won't always work for beginners and may feel like a waste of time, once you gain control of your mind it will become a daily necessity simply so you can stay sane. A man's mind is his last sanctuary.

>>4803355

I forgot to mention, bonus points: Do acid, then try these steps. You will quite literary be able to reconstruct your entire psyche and experience controlled ego death. Your life will forever change for the better. (something you do only once)

Read 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle.

>>4803355
>>4803359

>tl;dr just do drugs

>>4803355

Thanks alot, also found Sam Harris has some stuff on his blog for anyone else interested http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/how-to-meditate

WTF is this /x/ troll shit doing on /sci/?

>>4803355
>Count backwards from 10 and with every number visualize
Instead of this try a non-sense mantra that doesnt mean anything to you, this way you wont be able to form any concepts around it. This will clear your head and gain more benefit form meditation.

Tip: use a foreign word that you dont know. to form mantras.

>>4803410

>secular
>/x/

come again

>>4803335
This

Also there's no way of doing what you want to do.

>>4803429
>spiritual nonsense
>not /x/

choose one

>>4803444
How is meditation spiritual nonsense?

>>4803447
anything not physics/math = spiritual

>>4803459
Oh, OK. So biology is spiritual nonsense too I assume.

>>4803462
yes

>>4803447
philosophy / magic / non-physical shit has no place on a science board

>>4803474
pretty sure meditation is a brain state. maybe you're reading too much into your christian upbringing and cant see anything but god

What do you mean by stress?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_%28biology%29

>>4803459

Meditation is physics. You just isolate yourself, concetrate and let some areas of the brain become more active, which may or may not in turn give you new thought or realizations. I dont think there is something spiritual in it

>>4803444

>spiritual

sec·u·lar
adj.
1. Worldly rather than spiritual.

9/10 would respond again

>>4803477
Other than you I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any of this religious pseudo-science garbage and I have good reason to not believe in it. There's no fucking evidence. Now get out of my science board, you retarded idiot.

>>4803487
I'm pretty sure meditation is not a belief system or a faith system. Its a physical(brain) state

>>4803487
>atheists
GET OUT

>>4803486
Good. You just proved that secular meditation is a paradox and a contradiction. Back to >>>/x/

>>4803478
>hurr durr
Your post was so stupid, I won't even bother commenting on it.

>>4803487
oh just fuck off to reddit with your edgy teenage angst

>>4803491
It's nonsensical shit from /x/ just like tulpas, ghosts and conspiracy theories. It doesn't belong on a science board.

>>4803494
No, you better get out, christfag.

>>4803503
>It's nonsensical shit from /x/ just like tulpas, ghosts and conspiracy theories, psychology and biology. It doesn't belong on a science board.

Fixed for accuracy.

>>4803502
/sci/ is for science and not for paranormal pseudoscience crap.

>>4803503
you sound like an angry atheist kid. do you want to confess your daily sin? maybe this will make you feel better

>>4803516
I hope you get banned for inane religion trolling.

>>4803526
you shouldnt be afraid of god

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1988-97270-000

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08873267.2003.9986927


But, you know, stay edgy, teen atheist man.

Protip: I'm also an atheist and a physicist, but you're just an attention whoring faggot.

>>4803503
I've got some bad news for you, fella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

>>4803551
>Research on the processes and effects of meditation is a growing subfield of neurological research.
>neurological
>neurology
>a hard science

>>4803556
>hard science trolling
>implying you believe in the ontology rather than the tautology of physics
>implying it isn't just an effective modeling of reality
>implying most neurologists aren't still far better mathematician's than you

Doh ho ho.

>>4803551
>>4803553
>research on a paranormal / spiritual "phenomenon"

Yeah, about as "scientific" as creation science.

>>4803574
Well hey now at least this is slightly tangible unlike creationism.

>>4803574
>research on gravity/quantum mechanics
sounds very spiritual to me.

>>4803571
>a doctor in medicine
>more knowledgeable about math than anyone

A fucking cash register operator knows more math than a medic.

>>4803311

>I wish to become a
>I wish
>I

that's the starting problem, 99% of your problems revolve around your 'self', and there isn't one

>>4803587
No, there is one. Just the one we have does not have any "concrete" existence.

>>4803579
Nope. The people believing in it are just as retarded and their fairy tales are unscientific as fuck.

>>4803582
Can't tell if troll or full retard.

>>4803594
how can scientists be unscientific. being a scientific means emulating scientists. being a scientist does not in any way/form/shape mean being an atheist

>>4803596
Pseudoscience is not real science.

>>4803602
if you have proof to discount those research papers, show it, otherwise you're the one thats looking like a retard

>>4803592

>Just the one we have does not have any "concrete" existence.

its worse than that

>>4803605
Are you seriously asking for proof that debunks obvious pseudoscience shit? Seriously? That's like posting a paper that says the earth is flat and then seriously demanding a refutation.

>>4803625
you keep saying pseudoscience yet offer no explanation. the strawman arguments are getting you nowhere

>>4803626
>a christfag
>accusing others of strawmen

HAHAHA oh wow.

>>4803630
>strawman
>making more strawman

>>4803631
Just admit that you have no argument anymore and that I debunked your fairy tales by use of logic. Feels good to know science.

>>4803635
I didnt see anylogic anywhere in this thread. All you said was meditation = spiritual = religion = creation. Strawman wont get you anywhere.

>>4803639
>he doesn't even recognize logic
Oh wow you are really retarded.

>>4803639

don't forget he's also repeating himself endlessly

>unsupported assertion not immediately accepted
>must assert harder!

>>4803651
What's that? The butthurt christfag has to samefag after he was beaten by logic?

>being close-minded

Wow, real mature there.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=biological+effects+of+meditation&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_v
is=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=1wzmT4ebKfO80AGOpPXYCQ&ved=0CAcQgQMwAA

I'll just leave this here.

>>4803675
its just 1 troll who thinks science = atheism

>>4803675
>using the phrase "close-minded"

That's not how adjectives work, son.

>suddenly mad atheists

>>4803687
Sorry. What'd I do wrong?

>>4803683
I guess it beats believing meditation = not atheism.

>>4803687
close is an adjective.

>>4803683
0/10

Every scientist is an atheist because his work consists of disproving fairy tales. Belief in magic is not compatible with science.

>>4803690
In this context the spelling "close" is only a verb. Closed is the adjective.

>>4803696
>implying authorial intent matters

>>4803694
>Every scientist is an atheist because his work consists of disproving fairy tales
This guy. Are you serious? Scientists arent out to disprove anything, they're just trying to find how the universe is.

>>4803694
francis collins?
WHERE IS YOUR DAWKINS NOW?

>>4803703
Finding out how the universe works is the same as disproving magic and fairy tales because we show that they don't exist and the universe works on logic.

>>4803711
He's a retard troll.

>>4803703
>Scientists arent out to disprove anything

I give you credit for everything but this. Fundamentally, science attempts to disprove everything.

>>4803694
Why are you treating atheism as a counterculture? Why do you attack anything without math? Why are you so close-minded to this?

And don't give me some knee-jerk emotional reaction that you feel is somehow justified by what side of the field you're playing on.

>>4803716
>Finding out how the universe works is the same as disproving magic and fairy tales because we show that they don't exist
>Science = prove predetermined conclusions

Cool story bro.

>>4803716
>Finding out how the universe works is the same as disproving magic and fairy tales because we show that they don't exist and the universe works on logic.
No no no no no. Universe does not care about whether fairy tales exist or not. Universe works regardless of logic. Logic is just a human tool to explain the universe to humans.

>>4803717
Actually fundamentally science tries to explain the unexplainable. Religion/myths tries to explain the unexplainable via myths. Science does the same thing but with empiricism. Two methods contradict each other many times, but that does not mean science is out to disprove religions/myths. Science isnt based on religion/myths, its based on empiricism.

>>4803721
Because I'm not a fucking retard christfag like you. To an intelligent human being it is obvious that logic and facts mean more than faith and childish beliefs.

>>4803716
another brilliant non sequitur from the antitheism crowd

Everybody stop shitting on eachother and get back to the topic at hand.

I'm interested in the psychology behind this. Any links on that?

>>4803722
Fact: Your sky daddy doesn't real. He has been scientifically disproved.

>>4803725
Science can explain fucking everything and it shows that your fairy tales are wrong. Deal with it, religitard.

>>4803728
>Science can explain fucking everything and it shows that your fairy tales are wrong. Deal with it, religitard.
-1/10

>>4803725
>fundamentally science tries to explain the unexplainable

You are giving science too much credit here, and ascribing to it properties it does not possess. The unexplainable cannot be explained by definition. Perhaps this is a semantic argument. I was referring to the scientific process; one must attempt to disprove any hypothesis.

>>4803729
>he believes in magic and sky fairies

>>4803728
he may not have the facts ladies and gentleman
but you sure as fuck are gonna hear his opinion

>>4803728

no YOUR sky daddy doesn't real

>>4803734
are you the same strawman troll

>>4803728
>Science can explain fucking everything

You appear to be suffering from the delusions that you accuse others of.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=projection&l=1

>>4803736
There is NO magic man in the sky. Do you believe in santa clause as well?

>>4803738
Show me one thing that science can't explain. I fucking dare you.

Not meditation, but related to the, ahem, "debate" that's going on.

http://sunora.net/

>>4803727
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

It's pretty incredible stuff.

>>4803733
Gravity's mechanics was unexplainable pre-newton because they didnt have the base science we have today. Science is all about building models that can properly explain the unexplainable.

>>4803741
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3AFMe2OQY

>>4803727
On Meditation? There are quite literally hundreds of studies on how mindfulness meditation benefits people and their pain/stress response.

Oh wow, I'm glad to see a lot of members of /sci/ aren't spiritually dead inside.

>>4803747
>unexplainable
>explained
You're playing fast and loose with your words there, sonny.

People might actually be willing to listen to you if you change your tone. Right now you only come off aas an angry angsty atheist adolescent, and people are dismissing what you say because of presentation. It's a bugger to deal with, but it does matter. Shape up a bit in your words, and we can make this an actual, productive, debate.

>>4803753
Scientists must use relative terms. Constants are the thing of religion/old ways of thining

>>4803741
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_physics

Go nuts.

>>4803761
>implying belief in an invisible wizard will solve these problems
Only science can explain them.

There is absolutely nothing that is true or not "because it is". So explain why meditation isn't true. Or Psychology, or Neurology, or Biology.

>>4803763
Watch this:

>God did it.

I just explained away all of those problems.

>>4803741
>Show me one thing that science can't explain. I fucking dare you.

Your autism.

The practice of meditation, and meta-cognition in general, has clear physical effects on the brain:

"Meta-awareness and regulation of mind-wandering are core cognitive components of most contemplative practices and to study their impact on DMN activity, we collected functional MRI (fMRI) data from a cohort of experienced Zen meditators and meditation-naive controls engaging in a basic attention-to-breathing protocol. We observed a significant group difference in the skewness of the fMRI BOLD signal from the vPMC, suggesting that the relative incidence of states of elevated vPMC activity was lower in meditators; furthermore, the same parameter was significantly correlated with performance on a rapid visual information processing (RVIP) test for sustained attention conducted outside the scanner."

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/32/15/5242.short

All dis false dichotomy.

>>4803783
>Meta-awareness
>mind-wandering

Cool pseudoscience you have there. What's next? Soul transfer? Mind control? Telepathy?

>>4803786

AhahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OH WOW
Oh wow

Everyone give up, he's won.

>>4803792
Give me rigorous scientific definitions of these terms. Oh wait you can't because it's not science but just /x/tards trying to pretend their shit is backed up by evidence.

>>4803786
Every thought you have, even the most fleeting idea, physically alters the structure of your brain. Meta-cognition and mind-awareness are clear thought patterns that evidently lead to lower stress and heightened attention as indicated by fMRI scans and visual tests.

It's ironic that you keep bringing up pseudoscience since your dogmatic attitude against the evidence is very unscientific.

>>4803800
Thoughts don't exist. Show me a thought. I know you can't.

>>4803795
Meta-cognition: thinking about thinking to the point of controlling what you're thinking about completely

Mind-wandering: what happens to ADD people

As for the second definition, you seriously thought the hyphen made it something different? And for the first one, you seriously couldn't think about what "meta" and "cognition" maen to assemble your own definition.

Dogmatic close-mindedness is right.

>>4803808
Gravity doesn't exist. How me a gravity. I know you can't.

>>4803808
Your thoughts are emergent from the consciousness in your brain. MRI scans can indicate which thoughts you are having, such as the idea of a carrot or a house, just by analyzing your brain activity:

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S31/47/31I07/index.xml?section=topstories
http://www.economist.com/node/21534748

Further evidence for the efficacy of meditation:

"Five days of integrative body–mind training (IBMT) improves attention and self-regulation in comparison with the same amount of relaxation training. This paper explores the underlying mechanisms of this finding. We measured the physiological and brain changes at rest before, during, and after 5 days of IBMT and relaxation training. During and after training, the IBMT group showed significantly better physiological reactions in heart rate, respiratory amplitude and rate, and skin conductance response (SCR) than the relaxation control."

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/22/8865.short

>>4803811
>thinking
That's philosophical bullshit and has nothing to do with science. "Thinking" does not exist.

>>4803813
Let shit drop. It falls down. Gravity proved.

>>4803822
No, you fucking retard. Show me a thought. You might as well say herp derp is an emergent property. It's just as inane. Something that cannot be observed or measured doesn't exist. Thoughts don't exist.

>>4803822
>consciousness

AHAHAHA now we gone full retard ITT.

>>4803848
Who am I? You start forming answers in your head. Thoughts proved.

>>4803848
Pro tip: You had thoughts when saying thoughts don't exist.

>>4803855
I don't "think", my body naturally responds to outside stimuli. It's all biologically and physically determined. No magic involved here.

>>4803822
As a trainee Neuropsychologist, I can tell you neither of those links actually prove consciousness or the 'mind'. MRI/fMRI scans are only a way of measuring activity in the cerebral cortex. I would go into detail, but basically that still leaves the possibility that the mind is an illusion.

That said, I actually have read research on where consciousness actually arises from, and it's more around the brain stem (Which makes sense as it is the first part of the brain that develops).

>>4803860
Thoughts are biologically and physically determined. What do you think your brain is doing.

I think you are either trolling or genuinely retarded.

>>4803858
No, I didn't, you fucking retard.

>>4803860
There is no gravity, objects naturally fall down. Its all physically determined. No magic involved here.

>>4803861
Please, go into detail.

Also, whether the mind is an illusion or not is irrelevant. The results of meta-cognition and meditation clearly show increased relaxation and reduced stress.

>>4803861
It doesn't arise anywhere because it doesn't exist. Stop believing in magic.

>>4803865
You just had angry thoughts in responding to the idea that you had thoughts.

How else could you have understood my words and thought up a dumb response?

>>4803867
There are no magical "thoughts", there's nothing but neurons firing.

>>4803869
Gravity has observable effects. Thoughts don't.

>>4803877
Humans are biological robots. We get input and produce output and there's absolutely no magic.

>>4803879
Thoughts have observable effects. Gravity doesn't.

>>4803879
What do you think those neurons are firing for? To achieve thoughts.

Thoughts about input produce output for further input etc. Thoughts are a feedback loop that makes us far more complex than simple biological robots like instinctual insects/reptiles.

The troll is like one of those hindu demons that tried to distract buddha when he was charging his chi level. You have to learn to ignore him to become a good jedi.

>>4803881
Fuck off, retard troll.

>>4803886
>What do you think those neurons are firing for? To achieve thoughts.
No no no. They fire because they got input. They don't have any goal, neither do they produce any non-observable metaphysical bullshit product.

>>4803898
No you fuck off, retard troll

>>4803902
I'm just naming the facts. If you can't deal with it, you can fuck off to >>>/x/ where religiontards belong.

>>4803551
déjà fucking vu!

>>4803904
I'm naming facts too. If you can't deal with it, you can fuck off to >>>/reddit/ where atheistsfags belong.

>>4803907
Atheistfags belong here, becuase other than religion atheism is based on science and logic.

>>4803875
>>4803875
Indeed. I am an advocate of Mindfulness meditation actually, and and regularly take part in EEG's measuring brain activity and mindfulness as a part of our research programme at University.

Basically, the Cerebral Cortex is only our input (Parietal, Occipital, Temporal lobes)/output (Frontal lobe) system. Along with the thamalmus, basal ganglia, fornix and other internal brain structures, it still leaves room for consciousness to be an illusion. The Cerebral Cortex is split into lobes, and each one will show activity in the brain for whatever that part of the brain is used for. But they do not represent consciousness, thought of free will, rather a function that can arise FROM consciousness.

>>4803911
Atheistfags dont belong here, becuase both religion and atheism use selective science and logic to further their agenda.

>>4803914
You can't even define consciousness. Don't you see how fucking retarded it is to do research on some magical property that you can't even observe? That's not science.

>>4803918
>religion
>using science and logic
0/10

>>4803914
How does it feel when what you are learning right now from science is what buddhists have been teaching for 2500 years? Mind/Self = illusion etc

>>4803925
But who is the one perceiving this illusion?

>>4803923
Pope preaches acceptance of evolution as a god's way of creation. There are plenty of philosophers in christian religion

>>4803935
>philosophers
>not the enemies of science

Get the fuck out.

>>4803938
christian accepts both science and logic(philosophy)

>>4803848
Your thoughts at least.

>>4803940
0/10

>>4803948
Show me a thought. Or show me an effect that has to be attributed to a thought and cannot be explained otherwise.

>>4803954
An effect of thought = you zealously writing this response

Hey.
Hey.
Hey.

Stop replying to him, then he can return to not thinking and being a 0/10 troll somewhere else.

>>4803969
No, that doesn't need thoughts. Any robot could do that and in fact it is done by a biological robot and it's caused only by neurotransmitters. "Thoughts" are unnecessary philosophical magic and are killed by Occam's razor. They are no different from unicorns or aliens, because they don't exist. There's no evidence.

>>4803975

>>4803974
>>4803982
>has his religious fallacies disproved
>resorts to yelling troll

I never thought /sci/ atheist were as despicable as those from reddit.

>SCIENCE IS MINE AND ONLY MINE RELIGOUS PEOPLE ARE DELUDED AND CANT INTO SCIENCE
>CATHOLICS ACCEPT EVOLUTION? LOL 0/10 FAG

>>4803983

>>4803984
I prefer facts and evidence instead of the written fantasies of sheep shaggers from 2000 years ago.

>>4803997
Sheep shaggers? Is this because I attend University in Wales? Because if so...

You're right.

>>4803997

>>4803997

Many religious people do as well. They have managed to reconcile the facts of the natural world while keeping their faith. They simply consider that the very purpose of the holy texts is a promise for eternal life. It does not lead every aspect of their lives.

>>4804011
Someone who is older than 5 and still believes in fairy tales is fucking retarded and should be euthanized.

>>4804016

>>4804021
Yes it makes perfect sense because it's science and logic.

>>4803984
highschool kids not understanding science properly + the fact that they are from a christian background leads to blindsight.

>>4804026

>>4803459
you cant even hold physics

>>4803359
Don't believe Justus'. He's an idiot.