/sci/ - Science & Math

This is pretty true in any field. Idiots will out.

Shit tier: God that assumes everyone is facing the same direction and there are no circles

>>4715269
>engineers
>really good at math/physics

troll thread?

Engineering faggots will avoid this thread like a plague because the truth hurts.

ChemE here.

Wtf is a foreman? is this one of those faggot=engineers inside jokes?

>>4715299
You have a lot to learn kiddo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_foreman

There was a guy who was a graduate of the aerospace engineering department I went to who started a UAV company right out of college and is a millionaire. He talked to a group of my classmates and literally said "A students are worthless in the real world".

He said they take too long to solve problems and that B/C students that "want to solve problems quickly so they can play a game of pickup basketball" make better engineers.

>>4715299
If you have to ask you couldn't handle it.

It's actually pretty true. While, a generous mixture of two will ultimately yield the best student, those with worth ethic will go further than those that just bank on being good at math, with respect to their career as an engineer.

It's also the reason why I'm no longer in engineering, I have much stronger interest in math and switched into that mid-way through my college career (started in EE). Engineering is very practical and useful for the world, but I found it rather soul crushing. It really just ruined any of the math I found interesting, reducing it to "table lookups".

>>4715305
eh I dont really know about that. I would rather have the "A" student just because they typically put in more time and are more devoted.

But whatever

Eh, I'd say that it has a lot to do with the engineering in question. To be quite honest, engineering (granted, some more than others) has a lot more theory than the practical things that a technician could conceivably do. In my field, there is more emphasis in modeling rather than actual construction/building. To trivialize all engineering as such is a bit extreme.

>>4715279
Dohoho

Most of the guys I know in engineering and physics are really good at both math/physics theory and hands on projects. If you're good at solving problems in one area, you can learn to be good at solving problems in many other areas, as long as you're taught right. Planning, rotating objects in your head geometrically, knowing how small details work- those things are required to do well in both physics problems and hands on problems. It's just ridiculous to assume that those areas have some sort of huge distance between them.

im majoring in aerospace engineering then after b.s. getting m.s. in material science and engineering. gonna be an astronaut and make nanomaterials for spacecraft.

>>4715340
its funny because if a field worker earned the title of engineer by his company then you students turn to snobs and look down on him. Yet you seem to think that a bunch of aspies fucking around with little school projects will somehow be able build a tank/vessel or weld some pipe just cause you passed calculus 3. Its faggots like you who give good engineers a bad name.

>>4715358
good engineers dont have a bad name

>>4715360
A good engineer is something you will never be.

this is true, and to a degree i learned this the hard way when i started my career.

i'm a mechanical engineer, and without practical skills, a mechanical designer will end up wasting time by either drawing something that is impossible to make, impossible to assemble or they will reinvent the wheel because they have no idea what sorts of off-the-shelf products are available that will do what they want to do.

but whatever, in university they don't teach you how to be an engineer or operate in an engineering department. they teach you how to solve math related problems out of books.

>>4715344
Just fyi, nanofabrication can be very boring work.

>>4715340
no its not ridiculous 90% of the time its true. You will see this once you get a real job. Till then enjoy your sense of superiority over "stupid"fags cause when you get a real job you will realize just how inferior you are to them.

>>4715370

how so C? such a new field there isnt much wiggle room to develope? time consuming?

So fucking true it's depressing. And this applies to way more than engineering. Good luck kids. This lesson is a hard slap in the face when you first start out.

>>4715261
>Engenieer
>Not a guy who was too stuipid go into a real science
>pick one

>>4715374
As Feynman said, "there's plenty of room at the bottom", and there really is. It's just that you're unlikely to interact with anything you make at a macro level. If what you make is scalable, odds are you won't be involved in the scaling process. Imagine making a nanosuit, for example. You'd fabricate the monomers and possibly even guide the integration of components that will will make it into a suit that a human can wear. Chemical and industrial engineers will design the machinery and process for making the suit, and other people will test it. You'll likely be interacting with it only under a microscope, and getting data through various sensors depending on what you made.

That's not absolute, which is why I describe these things as "likely" or "unlikely". Macroscale interaction will also depend on the industry you're in. For some industries, there might be lots of interaction. In others, not so much. I put emphasis on macroscale interaction because it's the fun part of making something. Sure, you can move microscopic things with tweezers, and you can visualize nanoscale devices under SEM. You can test your nanodevices and interpret data output. However, I don't see that as very fun. Myself, I work mostly at the microscale but I do make some nanostructures with a couple next-generation technologies.

>>4715370

thats what the b.s. in aerospace engineering is for

>>4715383

>>everyone except except math/physics fags thinks your smart as fuck for being an engineer
>>never see any math/physics majors because they are so rare

okay.jpg

>working in the industry
>not having an academic life

Stay pleb, faggots.

>>4715344
You do realize that 'nano' is usually the domain of chemistry, not engineering.

>>4715418

I'm not that guy but I came here to say that I'm studying Nanotechnology Engineering.

>>4715410

>not working in industry then settling into cushy academia later on

>>4715421
That's a major now? How common?

>>4715418

modern material science and engineering is the engineering of nanomaterials bro. thats why they only offer a masters at most schools.

>>4715418

how do you like it. im the one with the gifs. my ultimate goal is to go to space and experiment up there. basically working for a private corp. as an astronaut.

>>4715261
OP doesn't go to university
I don't care what you think.

I work at a tool and die company doing machining and cad/cam work.

I also got straight As this past spring semester at engineering school.

I don't know that feel, OP.

>foreman

wtf are you talking about? Are you like from a coal mining town or something where 95% of everyone you know works the same blue collar job and you assume that's the same everywhere and people know what you're talking about?

>>4715440
I think that means master tradesman.

100% agree.

I am an engineering student who is good at the theoretical parts but i'm shit with woodwork and manual stuff. I'd gladly trade good grades for being a capable handyman. Such is life when your parents are clueless about these things.

>>4715440
Buttsore because you aren't widely read or informed in any way.

>>4715426

Not very. I think <1% of all colleges have this program. It is the most difficult program offered at my university.

>>4715434
OP here. I was going to inb4 fairtytales of being a machinist but I thought /sci/ would stop lying and be honest for once.

inb4 hurr I'm welder/aerospace engineer durr

>most engineers will never have the joy of working in a lab

enjoy your cubicles

>>4715455
Are you Canadian?

OP is very correct. However, this is why I highly advise getting as many internships as possible. I now have a full year of industry experience (senior in mechanical engineering), and I can tell you I learned ALL the practical stuff at my work and only theoretical stuff in school (with a few small exceptions). Experience and practicality gets you jobs, not the ability to derive the formula for deflection of a cantilever beam showing all work. Get some work experience.

>>4715459
lol, look at this faggot in denial. Can't face the truth that there are people who are so much better than you? What a pussy.

>>4715459
proof coming, hang on to your jimmies

>>4715469
>engineer
>calling other people faggots

no u

>>4715465

Yep. If you're doing investigation or something I got to UWaterloo. UofT also has a nano program as a specialization of Engineering Science.

>>4715459
Some projects I made.

Video of the air motor running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWR656VcYTs

>>4715459
Grades

>>4715509

>Introductory courses

OMG ur so smart XD! Looks like all the h8ers lost the game :P

>>4715507
Here's something I made

>>4715509
OP here. Not impressed at all.

Also

machining CLASS=/=job

>>4715509

>Year 1 Semester 1 grades
>conclusive proof I'm smarter than you

Post up your applied dynamics and circuit theory grades you fucking imbecile.

>>4715529
>Dec 13, 2010

That was a long time ago bro, I've moved on since then. Obviously I can't keep what I make at work.

>>4715516
I admit those engineering classes were a joke, but still.

>>4715527
Environmental engineer, by the way. You can get into micro/nanotech from many different pathways.

>>4715344
Thats what I'm doing too! Are you at stanford?

>>4715532
I never claimed I was smarter than anyone.

>>4715527
What is it?

>>4715548
It's a pressure sensor. Air comes in and hits a SiN membrane (yellow colored) that is 800-900 nanometers thick. The membrane balloons outward, making the NiCr wires on top deflect. Deflection causes strain, strain changes resistance of the wires, and resistance is related to current. Current is physically measured and a calibration curve can be created for current vs pressure. A Wheatstone Bridge is used to increase precision, reduce noise, and account for instrument drift. The bridge makes use of 3 contact points (the gold squares). The set of wires not on the yellow membrane is my reference. These wires are not affected by the pressure.

>>4715570
So it runs electricity through if there is air?

>>4715575
Electricity runs through regardless actually, but the resistance changes when the membrane deflects. The membrane doesn't deflect enough to cause the wires to be disconnected.

I also have a logic gate that works on air, no wires. It's hard to photograph though.

>>4715509
Your school must use the same system as my undergrad did for viewing grades.

>>4715516
>>4715529
>>4715532

>>4715570
How sensitive is it? What range (psig/psi) can it measure? Have you considered alternate membrane materials?

>>4715588
It's not anything special, just something I made in a MEMS/NEMS class. I'm a student actually, not a professional in the field. My work requires a lot of time in the cleanroom though, and use of many different types of machines and processes.

back to the device though, it can measure anywhere from 0.5-5 psi. Above 5, it breaks because it's so thin. You can try other materials but I'm limited by what my sputterer has available, and the ease of fabrication. SiN was great because it allowed me to do wet etching with a strong base and you can get a nice thin coat onto a silicon wafer.

I would like to go into engineering because I enjoy building things and am rather good at both the theoretical and realistic work, but what are the average salaries of someone with a bs coming out of a good school?

>>4715608
you must be new

300K starting

>>4715509
post something like this and I might start to take you seriously.

>>4715607
Why did you change from M to C

>>4715613
Seriously? Because I have been looking for a while and most sites say that the average is not even 100k.

>>4715608
Starting is around 50k. You will peak around 120k.

>>4715618
I post as C on another forum, and forgot to change back to M. Since I was already in a conversation, I thought it'd be too confusing to correct it. Good spot :)

>>4715627
Oh all right thanks a bunch, that doesn't sound too appealling though. How many years of work experience is peak? And does the average change with what school you go to? For example an ivy league?

>>4715618
I like talking micro/nanofab here. I've also been helped 3 times by people doing similar research.

>>4715632
10+. how much you max out really depends on how you direct your career. If you stick working at an engineering firm you will peak a bit over 100k. If you get more entrepreneurial you can make more money. If that doesnt sound appealing to you realize that most other careers will never even hit 100k and start around 30k.

The opposite is also true; moron ‘engineers’ who don’t fucking get physics and math but are good handymen are simply handymen. I assume you are one of them OP.

>>4715327
I'd rather have whichever student can do the actual job better. I wouldn't even look at grades.

>>4715635
Yes I realize the salaries of other jobs but I always feel as if I could find a job that could earn more, idk why. Anyway would a MBA increase salaries drastically, perhaps opening opportunities to get into management after a few years?

>>4715643
It could. MBAs are only worth a shit nowdays unless you have plenty of real engineering experience.

>B.S. in ChemE
>M.B.A.

>implying i'm not going to make money being your manager and doing nothing all day

>>4715651
>think managers do nothing all day

Every engineering manager Ive met seems like they are overworked to hell and hate their lives

>>4715305
I would think he was fucking with you.

>>4715464
This is the truth.  We would enjoy working in labs or shops but I have lots of friends whose jobs are to push numbers around in Excel or equivalents all day.  Real life can't be glamorous for all of us.

>>4715509
>Spring 2012 Grades.jpg
>i shiggidy diggidy

>>4715627
So you actually helped him, I'll go ahead and tell my story.  I'm from a depressed town and have other interests in economics so I've always kept track of what average wages are, so it has been pretty grating to hear my fellow eng students, not knowing what the fuck they are talking about, say they expect to make $80k/yr out of the gate.  Now that we've graduated we all make decent money but thank God I don't have to hear that bullshit anymore.  Some people go through life carrying a bubble around them all the way.

>>4715643
Don't take time off / delay entry into the workforce to get it.  Your experience is more important, an MBA is likely to be more irrelevant to your job than your undergrad was.

>>4715663
I only make 40k. Granted I was a mediocre student and lucked out hard to even get the job.

>>4715632

This is the APPEGA standard we use in Alberta, Canada.

FYI, F and F+ levels require about 15 years of experience. The job title that goes with them tend to be 'Chief Design Engineer' or 'Chief Administrating Engineer'.

>>4715666
>replying to myself

Also: Fucking petroleum engineers.

>>4715669
Oh sorry again.

A level is basically a junior graduate, A+ level is like a summer intern.

>>4715665

Don't feel bad.  You're doing fine.  Keep working hard.

>>4715666

nice trips

Hate to tell you this, but an engineer is the guy who drives the choo choo.

is EE hard

>>4715758
no

I'm on my second year of ME and I have no idea what I'm doing. I like the calculus classes, thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, but I know absolutely nothing about welding, machine elements, etc.

What should I do to be closer to what my job will be?

I'm a 25 yo engineer that graduated from a top 10 engineering public school with a 3.1 GPA.

I graduated in 2010, a horrible time to find a job and had multiple job offers. I accepted one at $62k.

GPA doesn't mean shit if you aren't personable or know how to construction/trades work. Practical knowledge is definitely key, and not being a painfully anti-social dweeb is even more important.

I've made 2 considerable raises and 1 promotion since being employed. I've created a niche for myself that basically the place I work for would be hurting if I left for something better.

I work on a very high visibility project for a defense contractor. I'd guarantee most of you have seen this project if you've followed defense technology in the past 5 years. Only two engineers work on it at my job, myself included. We are the face of the company when dealing with the government and manufacturer. I travel a lot for work.

feelsgoodman.png

>>4715801
>I'd guarantee most of you have seen this project if you've followed defense technology in the past 5 years

Are you talking about that homosexuality inducing bomb America has been working on since forever?

>>4715820
Did they test it on Texas? That would explain some things.

>have bad GPA, no guarantee of job in engineering
>everyone telling me to get internship to help my chances
>all internships looking for students with decent GPA
>have bad GPA no guarantee of internship in engineering

how do i get out of this vicious circle

Many people that major in engineering have no interest in working in that area. The degree is just back up.

I went to UCLA. I am good looking and white(Latino), and was hired by an investment bank. Most of the top starting salaries were for banking/analyst/consulting jobs.

The one good thing I learned at UCLA was MATLAB programming.

>>4715327

Really? You want someone who will put more time into things?

The point of hiring B students is that they will put less time into things. Perfectionism can be a vice whe you actually have to get shit done.

>>4715261
This is a picture of my computer engineering degree next to my latest project. A tall bike with lights from an ambulance on the front. Most of my personal projects involve a lot less welding and a lot more electronics and programming.

I was pretty disappointed with the time I spent earning my degree. I'm godlike in any situation that lets me use problem solving skills to design and build things. There were a couple project courses, but 90% of the time I was sitting in lectures and solving problems out of textbooks; not my cup of tea. I soldiered through it because I don't lose, but it was really not what I wanted.

Things are a lot better in the professional world. All the people who were shit at projects but found studying easy are stuck in entry level positions forever. They can't figure out how to do anything for themselves, just memorize how books and profs solve the test problems. Tell them to solve a new problem nobody has solved before and they give up.

Oh god, this thread.

>graduate at 19 with top marks
>find a job at a medium-tier company
>be the smartest of the group, famous for being able to solve any problem
>still don't succeed there for not being a loud, self-centered foreman
>leave job and go to grad school the following year
>still kicking ass
>grad school buddy land me a job on a worldwide known research lab
>working with other asspies and climbing my way through the ranks only using my actual talent

How are things down there, B-fags and C-fags?

>>4715879
Find work in some third world country. Total compensation is sometimes higher than what you get here.

>>4716416
doesnt change the fact that you might be just another boring fag

I

>>4715778
What "hands on" knowledge you need to know depends on the job you get. Honestly you dont need to know how to weld and all that. That's the technicians job. You do the higher level thinking work.

>>4715879
Networking. Go to a professional organization group. Try to get involved in a professors research as a lab bitch if you cant find anything else. Just tell them you think their research is interesting and you want to get involved.

>This thread
>Thinking that theory is useless and the only thing you need to learn is welding/machining
mfw
Protip - if you think theoretical things are useless you won't use them in future, because you'll land a simple workman-tier job.

>>4716523
Like I said, the machining and welding are the machinists and welders job and those are a lot easier to do than engineering. If you are designing mechanical parts the most about machining you need to know is geometric tolerances and maybe a few other basics. The machinist will probably bitch that what you design is hard to make but your job is to design parts not make the machinists job easy. You wont be solving integrals and using most of the equations in your textbook. You do need to understand them and their purpose for your job though because those things will come up.

bump

>>4715261
implying foreman is same as engineer..

I just graduated with a BS Mechanical engineering, and I've seen people from both ends of the spectrum. Some are good with welding and machining and have worked on cars, but are terrible when it comes to math and physics and problem solving.
On the other hand some people are really good at math, but needlessly overcomplicate things because they have no idea how machines are designed and built in the real world.

They can see a problem in a book and plug all the numbers into the formulas and get the right answer, but when it comes to the real world where the numbers you need aren't handed to you on a silver platter, they can't figure out where to get the values they need, and can't connect the real world with their calculations.

>>4715879
Volunteer? You're shit out of luck otherwise it seems.

>>4715879
Pick up the ASME handbook off pirate bay. Read the chapters on welding, and pressure vessels.
>>4715778
Either find an internship that doesn't require grades, or wait until after graduation, or just lie like everyone else.

>>4717079

This. Employed mechanical engineer here. I can't overemphasize the importance of internships. DO EEET!

bump

what are some must have books for ME? I'll try to pirate 'em all

>implying anyone here is smart or has a job

I'm not too practical but I'm quite good at the maths and principals so I've now got a well paid job as a aero engineer, currently contracting for one of Airbus' RSPs.

By all accounts the aero engineering profession (since commercialised air travel) has always needed people good at maths over practical people for designing and stressing. Practical people who cant do the maths work on the shop floor and make fuck all.

I know I'm shit tier, that's why I'm taking machining classes.

>>4715261

God tier reporting in.

>>4715358 Yet you seem to think that a bunch of aspies fucking around with little school projects will somehow be able build a tank/vessel or weld some pipe just cause you passed calculus 3

>specifying specifications for a pressure vessel without education

>nooopee.gif

>>4716557 Like I said, the machining and welding are the machinists and welders job and those are a lot easier to do than engineering.

>>4716557 The machinist will probably bitch that what you design is hard to make but your job is to design parts not make the machinists job easy.

You are officially retarded. It's exactly the designers job to design a part that is as easy to make as possible.

It's also wrong to say the actual manufacturers have an easier job.

>>4715570

Being subjected in my top tier engineering school to everything you said, I must say that you over complicated that. Your explanation tried to hard to complicate it and brag that you had some skill that is hard to come by. Its cool that you made that yourself but when people are smug and explain things like you, I lose a lot of respect.

>>4715305
This is exactly the kind of condescending, counterculture bullshit I would expect from some "bona fide, genuine working man" type. This stream of bile not only demeans a proper, tried-and-true gauge for success, but also diminishes the value of hard work and dedication to one's degree, values which, to me, seem paramount in the engineering field. Surely, this person was making a bitter to attempt to dampen the worth of good, hard-earned grades because he struggled at university and only got his job through a handy connection.

TL;DR: FUCK whoever this condescending fuck is.

>>4719656
now i understand

thank you for listening.

weird that's just what my father was (God Tier) supposedly.

>>4716557
Are you retarded? You are paid to make it simple. If the part is really complicated, cost goes up somehow.

>>4720116
>>4719601

These.

>>4716557

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Something as simple as a chamfer instead of a fillet can save a lot of money. Making the machinist's job easier makes the product cheaper. Try spending 12 minutes in industry and you'll understand.

I have bad grades, does that mean I'll be a good engineer?

>>4720139
I would jokingly say yes, but the truth is that if you have bad grades, then compared to people with good grades, you look like an inferior person.
Because you don't work as hard and because you're not as smart, it doesn't matter how much you love science or how many times you've watched cosmos or whatever.

You're gonna be looked down on and considered a shitty slave.
They'll pay you because they have to, but if it weren't for laws, you'd be deep in debt and be forced to slave for your entire life. You can't invent or create so you're worthless.

Get ready to suffer the rest of your life.

When I think God-tier engineer, I think Oliver Heavyside
When OP thinks God-tier engineer, he thinks this old house

I'll let you judge who's right.

>>4720228

Just looked that guy up, Heaviside, holy shit. How is he an electrical engineer though? Sounds more like a physicists (I'm an electrical engineer myself).

Crazy stuff though, how is he self-taught?

>>4719601
>It's also wrong to say the actual manufacturers have an easier job.

Machining
>Go to an easy tech school for two years
>Any fucking retard can do it

Engineering
>4 year degree if not more
>most students drop out their first or second year

>>4715881
This, 100%. Nothing to be ashamed of really, I'd go as far as saying more people do it in fields such as poly-sci and business than enggineering. They're not talented artists nor are they business savvy, but they go into the field anyways because it's easy and the job prospect is relatively better than working at McDonalds.

I went into engineering because it seemed to possess a good compromise between difficulty and job prospect for a bachelors degree. I've had some experience with practical work prior to that, not a whole lot but enough to make an opinion of it. You have a screwed perspective of engineering if you think you'd need to a handyman to become an engineer. I could have stayed at my minimum wage job filling propane tanks for people, but I'd rather sit in an office and design/maintain the pumps so someone else can else do dirty work.

As a engg student, I'm willing to learn any skill that would be applicable to my field, but no more. I'm guessing this will be picked up in internships, because so far I've taken only one course that could remotely be described as practical.

>>4720262
Not everyone can be a machinist.

>>4720333
People whose IQ is below 85 cant. As long as you arent a dysfunctional retard you're good.

>>4720354
Aspie detected.

Machinists have to be proficient in reading blueprints and they need to know exactly how to make what ever is on the print (you know, something many engineers don't know hot to do). It also takes lots of patience a fair bit of knowledge of math (up to trig).

>by the way, we need this part done by 3:00 today

It's tough to do math and think clearly while doing manual labor under pressure.

>>4720399
>up to trig

>>4715261
>dat chick

btw, I'm the first person to say anything about the girl in the picture, and I'm not an engineer.
I guess engineers really are faggots.

>>4720413
>dat chick

What of her? She's fucking ugly.

>>4720413
5/10.

50 50, either we'd bang or we wouldn't

>>4720244

His biggest and most important invention was the coaxial cable, together with the mathematics he provided for it.

>>4720399

Very true.

>>4720354

Machinists may not be as "smart" as engineers, but they still need to learn quite a bit. You ought to try GD&T sometime. Trust me, it's not as simple as you think. Try spending 4 seconds in industry. I've met plenty of chumps like you. The real world is very different from ENGR 101, as you will someday realize. Take it from a practicing engineer.

>>4715261
>RealDoll.jpg

That girl is beautiful, my word.

>>4719656
I'm not the same guy you answered, and I believe what you say is true, but I want to ask you a question: once I talked with a very important engineer from a big company around here and he asked me how much time I have to do a test, on average. I answered that I usually have a test of three or four questions and about two hours to do it, and he said that if it ever took me two hours to do three statics or thermodynamics problems I would never be a good engineer. Since then, I always aim to finish at least one hour before the limit, and even though I'm always imputting wrong numbers in the calculator and coming up with slightly different results, it makes me think much faster than I did before and my thinking is almost always right.

So, even though I'm not getting straight A's anymore, I feel like I've improved. Do you think that it is more important do solve problems quickly or to solve them flawlessly, for an engineer?

Most of A's student doesn't have the passion of a pratical man

They made great yes-men, but they never get to the top

>>4720455
I work for an consulting firm. It's more important take your time and do it right. If you rush you will make mistakes and mistakes cost a lot more money than spending a few extra minutes to make sure you didnt fuck up. Guy was an idiot for telling you that.

>>4720447
>Protip
>She's not a real woman.

OP sounds like he aspires to be a mechanic.

Prole as fuck.

>>4720455
>hundreds of people died after the building he designed collapsed because he forgot a minus sign
>yeah, but have you seen how fast he was at making that project? let's hire him

Yeah, no.

It would be good if /sci/ autodeleted any thread with the word "tier".

>>4720469
>>4720481
I get your points, I was mostly talking about academic life, you know.

What I believe that guy meant to me was that anyone can spend three hours on a thermodynamics, where you're allowed to even use your textbook, and get your answer right. It hardly shows any work there (I used to do tests like this). When you try to do it under one hour, however, you really have to use what you learned and, since it is a test, the answer shouldn't be as important as how you get to it.

But yes, of course if you're doing something serious you should be serious about it.

Do you still think that even if we are talking about tests, doing flawlessly is better than doing quickly?

>>4720455
If you got two hours, use those two hours.

>>4720503
>Do you still think that even if we are talking about tests, doing flawlessly is better than doing quickly?

Yes, because it shows you are able not to fuck up.

>2012
>wanting to be an engineer
lol no

>>4720520
Whats wrong with wanting to be an engineer

>>4720530

Then children from Reddit like >>4720520 won't like you.

>>4720594
Engineer here, 10/0 would not bang

>>4720455

You need to be able to do both. In the real world time limits and constraints exist, if it takes you half a day to solve one shitty problem then you aren't going to be productive enough to justify your position but if you do a bunch of things quickly but wrong then you're no better.

>rebuild cars for fun, made a twin turbo viper engine powered firebird in my drive way
>just graduated in mechanical engineering
>2.9 GPA, didnt really care that much tbh
>cant find a job, 100+ applications, one call back....
going to trade school once summer ends, so much for politicians yelling how much we need engineers

>>4721879
>dat shit tier student
>dat shit tier engineer

>>4721894
w/e, have a patent based on my design.

>>4721915

Amen brother. Experience/handyman skills > good grades. This is coming from a guy with good grades, BTW.

ITT: angry technicians who can't into math/physics so they say the ones actually good at theory are in a lowtier position... it's kinda like tesla and edison... tesla was greater cause he was better at theory and calculations.. and besides if you can't change a door handle... then you must not be that bright.. I'm sure many engineers that are great at math and physics could figure out how to do the mundane technical jobs left for the technicians/mechanics

>>4721930
lol. dunno bout that

>>4721938
well I do so fuck off

>>4721930
you would be surprised, personal stories from top of the class people:
>starts milling machine with tool already pressed to parts, fucks it up, fix it, tell him what he did wrong, turn around, BBBBBAAAHHHAHAMMMM, same thing, face palm
>After 4 hours of me telling the that the bundle wire on the sensor wire is actually the shielding and you need to connect it so it can actually shield and do the faraday cage thing, they still ignore me and wonder why the line is fuzzy, still dont understant what shielding does.

I would say that a mechanical engineer with practical experience of machine tools is far and beyond better than one without - experienced machinists are often more useful than them.

As far as other disciplines go I can't see how in the fucking fuck knowing how to change the wax ring on a toilet would = better engineer

>>4721941
Well they obviously don't seem too bright... were they even any good at math and or physics?

Dude, I know this old mexibro that was an engineer back in mexico. I paid him to fix up my bathroom and he did the entire thing by himself real cheap, plumbing and electric. He could be making shitloads of dosh if he wasn't illegal.

>>4721947
top of the class, first kid transferred to Cornell, apparently had straight A's, I though he was a tard the whole time.

>>4721952
the smartest kids are usually the dumbest.

I knew a kid who was probably one of the smartest guys I met, I observed the following:

2nd year EE, they made us do a little of fucking soldering and shit; fuck ups constantly. pretty much had to purchase your own desolder pump because they didn't provide us any in the labs.

>working late on a friday
>he's also in the lab
>asks me for my desolder pump
>hear him trying to desolder for about 30 minutes
>comes up to me
>yo man, I dont think your desolder pump works
>im like wtf, how can it not work
>i ask him to show me
>he proceeds to place the pump directly on the soldered joint and tries to suck it
>i seriously face palm and tell him he needs to heat the solder up before it can be sucked up

so ugly

>>4721952
perhaps it was aspergers.. cause for some reason engineering nerds have that.. I think the moral of the story is be good at math/physics.. just don't have aspergers

mechanical engineer for 20 years.

i will not hire someone who doesnt build things - hot rod cars, cabinet maker, something... there is a hand/mind connection that cannot be taught.

when you graduate from engineering school, you have some basics. now we see if you are worth a shit. the a students need to stay in academia, the c students usually make pretty good engineers.

best guys i ever worked with are engineers that grew up on farms.

>>4721977
that's probably a pretty good screening tool

>>4721977
Another MechE fag here.

I can't comprehend the idea of someone going through engineering school without building something. I did some late projects during my senior year and ran across some fags who didn't know how to do anything. I was fucking baffled at how worthless they were- even if they had good GPAs.

EE fag here, just graduated, mid-tier GPA, mediocre student, already had a 2 month internship

Which is a better move:
a. 2 years of work experience, shit job (enterprise programmer/ code monkey/ assembly line technician/ cadet engineer) at a small company, low salary, low chance of promotion, but work experience nonetheless

b. 2 years to get master's degree, small, unknown university, full-scholarship

>>4721992
probably the job, but just do the masters since it will be more enjoyable/free/get it out of way and put off wasting your life on entry level jobs

>>4721992
depends what you want. All the gubment jobs want people with masters. then you can get a cushy job doing powerpoints all day.
After a few years experience, the degree matters less, but the shiny name Masters will do no one any harm.

>>4721992

>mid-tier GPA, mediocre student

If that's the case, then go to grad school and seek forgiveness and redemption.

Also, real-life jobs, especially entry-level can be suffocating. Grad school gives you a chance to meet people and make connections, especially with professors. Also, it buys you 2 extra years to contemplate on your life and your plans for your future. It's like post-college backpacking, but instead of backpacking in some 3rd world country in Asia like a useless cunt, you're actually trying to publish a graduate thesis.

>>4721992

Grad school.

>>4721995

>masters
>free

I SHIGGY DIGGY
Even with a full scholarship plus allowances, it's not free, you idiot. You're actually earning negative moneys. Because you don't have a job. And you spend your time in school rather than working and making money. So you're actually losing potential money.

shit job = 30k
grad school = -30k

which would you choose?

>>4722022
loosing potential money you gain back, if you really want you can do the whole present value calculation, and realize he has the lowest earning potential now anyway, and any entry level job will just be wasted on rent food and car insurance. Plus its not that hard to work part time several days a week, masters is slightly easier than undergrad since most professors assume people are taking classes part time on top of full time jobs.

>>4715440
I think he means doctor.
Like, he could have been a doctor, but he's slightly smarter than that.

>>4721977
does the HR department think the same way? they dont seem to be very interested despite me having mixed concrete, built wooden frames, cut down, sanded and welded down parts together and solder electronics

The resume of a good engineer:

"Developed new, simultaneous multi-point optical velocity measurement technique, Molecular Tagging Velocimetry (MTV)"

"Only MSU graduate student checked out to use every piece of machine shop equipment unsupervised: mills, lathes, TIG and oxy/acetylene welders, saws, grinders, drill presses, etc."

http://www.egr.msu.edu/tmual/CHuck/resume.pdf

>>4722022
After tuition I made $25k as a M.Sc. student
After tuition I made $45k as a Ph.D. student

My earning potential in either case was around $60-70k, I'd estimate, so we have some quite large opportunity cost. But the net present value of both degrees were definitely positive, given the marginal earning potential.

>>4715261
What's this thingy about foremen. The status of being "in charge" of others?

Is there no status in being so awesome at difficult tech stuff that your buddies want your help all the time?

>This whole thread

That is really true though OP. There's a whole philosophical theory praising a strong link between theory and practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism

Its also one philosophical theory not studied widely by sociology/philosophy majors because Richard Rorty made the entire academic community asspained by championing it after studying all of the alternatives and popular theories for decades.

>>4721977

Probably true for mechanical engineering, but electrical engineering borderlining applied math?

>>4722690
he thinks that plumber == engineer

I'm the shit tier although I'm good at all subjects and not just math/phys.
But I'm going to learn, it's not my fault for not being good at blue-collar jobs anyway. I'm handy with computers at least.

>>4721977
oh man, you are right for one thing - engineer has to be handy. But more importantly should know the theoretical things, because they teach how to find information, use it, adapt by your needs.
Just ask some machininst-type engineer on some project he's doing and as you go deeper why he chose one way or another you'll see that he doesn't know shit, because some decisions need good optimisation ant theoretical foundation. They might seem competent because they take something and do, whereas a more theoretical guy will start questioning various possibilities and will look like he doesn't know what he is doing. But in the end, true inovations come from those who know their shit.
Of course if the job is a bit no-brainer like designing furniture or such, then those handy guys are sufficient.

>>4721977
What's your area of work, do you design?

>>4722779
Toilet fixing

>like to work on things, but forever confused by statics and EM.
>good understanding of chem and thermodynamics
>become chemical engineering major
>see mech E's with their cool devices
>EE's with their own projects
>all I have is a dumb aspen plant simulation

Later
>graduate
>can't find work
>only thing employers want to see an butt-kissing internships
>don't care about lab projects or hobbies
>was never enough of a butt kisser to get one in the first place.

This is pretty true. My grandpa can fix any circuit you give him and he designed this automatic system to help us boil down maple sap to syrup from scratch/using no math, but he's just an industrial plumber(pipefitter).

One guy came and looked at our syrup rig and asked which engineering school my grandpa went to as was pretty amazed he made the thing without massive amounts physics calculations.

>>4722816
Well, everyone can do something as a hobby, but in engineering you need to design a product that has to comply with shitload of strenght and such standards, has to be cheap, fully optimised, comply with environmental regulations. Idk maybe it's easier in USA

>>4722324
>English handbell ringer

>lul

>>4722324

I graduated from UCLA in 2003. All the highest salaries for engineers were for business type jobs. The highest salary went to a straight 'C' ex-model girl (computer science). One of the big record labels picked her up at $98,000 per year plus a bonus.

I majored in EE and had zero interest in the subject. To me the EE degree was always to fall back on. I have worked in finance since my graduation.

>>4722805
>mfw that's complete bullshit

ChemE here
Started working in a school lab right after my FIRST semester finished.

>>4723322

Sauce on that hot chick in OPs pic?
Sorry can't contribute anything else, all my blood has been redirected to nether regions if u kno what I mean jajajajajjajajaajajajajaaajajaja

>>4723381
>hot

Yeah... right.

If you are good looking you will work in business. Most engineers are ugly nerds, Indian, Asian, or some kind of Russian.

Being white and handsome counts in the work environment.

>>4723387

Dude she's smoking. jajajaja I'd totally knock her up

>>4723543

>Spaniard laugh

hahahah*

Also, this is 4chan. No "hahaha" allowed.

>>4722022
can't into accounting vs economic profit

You guys really must be engineers ... protip: the "hot chick" in the OP's picture is actually a dude.

you guys think i could get to space with a b.s. in aerospace engineering and a m.s. in material science and engineering?

>>4715261
you underestimate the need for human calculators and excel operators

>>4725135

If dudes can be made over to look this hot, it's fine by me jaja

okay so if im studying computer engineering. why do i need to be a handyman and fix doors and stuff. i dont even want to be a foreman whatever that is.

being engineer is all about solving problems. and math is important for that

itt: op thinks engineers is only one type of job.

in life you have those who are good at theoretical shit and those who are good at practical shit. In the middle you have those who are good at both, these are the lucky faggots. If you are good at theoretical shit then live in an office whilst getting fat and lonely and earning a good amount of cash.

ITT mechanics jelly of engineers who'll get jobs at hedge funds and investment banks because they can program and do maths to a high level.

>handyman skills

Oh God is this even a science board?

Go to somewhere related to your interests like /o/, /diy/, or /n/, not the science and math board.

>>4725635

>a job at a hedge fund

That sounds like hell. I'd rather make less money and work on theory because I love it, not because of your shitty reasons.

I wish people like you weren't allowed to graduate.

ITT: engineering students who dropped out because they couldn't handle the math and physics that is associated with being a good engineer.
pro-tip: practical shit can be easily learnt on the job, but its harder to learn how to be analytical and how to design products to meet standards, that is why 4 years of university is dedicated to it.

>>4725665
stay salty.

>>4725686

this

/thread

>>4725135

And how do you know it's a dude? I don't want to go to bed tonight knowing that I fapped to a man :(

>>4725135

Don't care
I'll take it

>>4725686 that is why 4 years of university is dedicated to it.

And it takes at least 4 years of full time work experience before you can declare your "time served".

OP is right. But I have more god-tier engineers in person than shit-tier ones.

I'm guessing the textbook engineers are the ones on the internet.

>>4727418

OP is correct. I am nearing completion of a 4 year engineering degree and I have good grades. I don't pretend for one second that grades trump experience or hands-on abilities, however.

I know you're trying to justify your 2.7 GPA to yourself and others. But believe it or not, there are many engineers who graduated with 3.5+ from Top 10 STEM schools who are damned good engineers.

ITT: OP can't accept people good at theory and practice

I really don't think I've ever met a white guy with a good engineering GPA who's retarded with hands on stuff

Indians and asians with 4.0 GPAs who suck at most practical things are a dime a dozen

ohmygod that chick in OPs pic

btw., math student here, most of us ARE in fact pretty incompetent when it comes to practical problems. hate to admit it, but it's true

Actually there are two kinds of of theoretical side students. You can't distinguish between one who just rote learns everything from that who actually understands shit just by their grades.
Those who understand stuff can be anything they want, they are good at practice too, those who just memorise stuff are the worst, they are worse than those carpenter-tier engineers. And there is pretty high ratio of rote learners to those who understand. That's why there's so much confusion going on.

>engineering, math, physics...
>not being part of medical master race

Sure is plebeian scum in here.

>>4727599
asians
=
>those who just memorise stuff are the worst

bump for relevance

>>go to /sci/
>>math/physics fags always hate on engineers for not being theoretical enough
>>math/physics fags praise mechanists and plumbers instead


nice try math/physics fags.

>>4729418

>medical master-race
How's not learning any conceptual knowledge treating you? Have fun memorizing and regurgitating endless loads of bullcrap.

>>4729418
why is there always a nigger in those pictures?

>>4729418
>Medical master race

Or how to be a faggot with a medical encyclopedia.

>>4729757

It's called a person with maximally pigmented skin, you fucking faggot