/sci/ - Science & Math

>implying free will

>>4713967
idiot.

>>4713969
>Implying human beings aren't just convoluted biomachinges with the human brain functioning as a biocomputer, absolutely influenced by chemicals and instinct
Choke on a bible, faggot.

> There is no excuse for grown up married individuals
> This goes especially to the men
I sense butthurt or sexually targeted troll

>>4713973
machines*

>>4713973
I have aspergers and even I know you're just a normal who has no understanding of science and tries to use it to justify his lowly ways.

you're wrong, normal, nothing you can do about it.

>>4713973
>>4713977
what a faggot, luckily no one would ever take that autistic excuse seriously in real life.
fucking sociopath/normallogic

if you're so governed by instincts then why are you replying?

>This goes especially to the men who always use biology as an excuse for cheating
If it's not biology, than what's the reason behind men cheating ?

>>4713983
If it's not biology, what's the reason for having sex at all?

>>4713980
Because his brain is programmed to react this way. There is no free will. Deal with it and grow up, kid. Magic isn't real.

>people actually not wanting to be able to reason
do you faggots just have a fetish for this kind of shit? >>4713973

>dem mental disorders
also you proved your stupidity by including the word "bible" as if that had anything to do with the post

>>4713987
>>4713987
What are your credentials, kid?
I'll slit your throat and not feel a thing.

>simplistic neuroscience
>science
pick 1

>>4713986
Exactly my point.

>>4713989
>mfw you're too retarded to comprehend that everything you say disproves the existance of free will

>>4713986
It is biology but it is controllable and not something to be used as an excuse to justify cheating.

>>4713989
Are you really that stupid to believe in magic?

>>4713995
you are just a pop-science reading tard.
obviously the UNSOLVED topic of free will is too complex and hard for you.
i hope you know it requires deep philosophical thinking and not reading sciencedaily.com

just stop replying, faggot
>inb4 HURR DURR MY BRAIN WONT LET ME DO IT

>>4713997
You think qualia is magic? You're obviously a pitiful autist.
It would explain your fetish for being a machine.
Your simple misuse of the word "magic" proves it even further.

>>4714000
>deep philosophical thinking

Stopped reading right there. You're a fucking retard. We don't need no philosophy when we have science to disprove your magic shit.

>>4714000
1/1000
and you get 1 because you hit the trips

>>4714004
Prove that qualia exist, you fucking retard. You know you can't because they're as idiotic as unicorns and leprechauns.

>>4714008
>hurr durr MY BRAIN LET ME GET TROLLED
just fuck off, you pitiful ant.

>>4714005
Science is a TOOL of philosophy.

>>4714011
Individual experience doesn't exist? Holy fuck you're stupider than I thought.

>>4714015
Too much stupid in one post. Just euthanize yourself. An adult who prefers magic over science is seriously mentally retarded.

>>4714015
I find it hard to take your comments seriously since you counter-argument using greentext and the lowest type of ad-hominems such as hurr durr like a /b/ person

These heroes took the logic of you nothing more than deterministic biocomputer to heart.
look where it got them, death.
pathetic nerds

>>4714015
0/10

Fuck off, IQ fundie. Why aren't you permabanned yet?

>>4714020
It's all meaningless, so who cares?
Typical ant, using "science" to justify his shittyness.
I bet you're a self-made sociopath too.

>>4714021
You should of became an engineer if you liked machines so much.
>using biogly to justify anything
>wants to be a zoo animal

>>4714024
WHO CARES IT'S ALL MEANINGLESS IT'S JUST YOUR BRAIN HURR DURR

you are more unscientific than you think
you're a hypocrite too

>>4714023
Their biocomputers are inferior to others.

>>4714025
What is there more to a human than being a biological machine? A magical soul? Fuck off, religitard. Your idiocy is unbearable.

>>4714027
inferiority is a human concept and human concepts do not exist in reality.
what now, nerd?

HURR JUST UR BRAIN

>>4714026
>IQ fundie
>calling others unscientific

>>4714033
>HURR

yeah right, that's your only argument for your /x/ shit.

there is no excuse for grown up individuals (white or black) to murder their enemies. This goes especially to the black men who always use biology as an excuse for murdering. That they are hard wired to want to kill any potential threats to protect their offspring and they are hard wired to hate white people etc. While all this is true, it is still not an excuse to go steal a gun and kill another human. You are not an animal programmed just to kill, you are a HUMAN BEING blessed with the power of reason. Every time someone murders white or black, they do it very deliberately and with thought behind it. Doesn't matter if your drunk even, being drunk just means you are more likely to not care about the consequences. If biology was such a driving factor then we would be like animals attacking anything that moved. But we are people we can reason.

>OP posts an interesting biology question
>thread gets ruined by dualism shit trolls

/sci/ will always be shit ;(

>>4714030
>keeps using the word "magic"
you sound like a grumpy 70 year old atheist.

Everything we know expect for a few rare exceptions cannot be proven.

Humans aren't just simple little deterministic machines, you autist.

the point of determinism is that it's a huge equation of everything that exists in which every single variable is known- that's as simple as it gets. I don't think our brains could contain that- do you?

>>4714042
>implying nondualism is any better

>>4714043
>Humans aren't just simple little deterministic machines

Yes, they are. Deal with it, religionfag.

>>4714043
mag·ic /ˈmajik/
Noun:
The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

That's what your "soul" is: Magic. Now grow the fuck up and stop trolling with this /x/ shit.

>>4714046
No they are not.
>implies i'm a "religion"
>even more proof of your stupidity.
Deal with it, autist.
SO EDGY HURR DURR PEOPLE ARE MACHINE SO DEEP AND DARK

back to /b/ with you

>>4714044
in the end Leibniz will be proven right, long live monads

>>4714000
>>4714025
>>4714015
>>4714025
>>4714033

Watching you try to come up with arguments is like watching a cripple drown...it's really sad...

>>4714044
Not only better, it's fucking science as opposed to paranormal magic and religion bullshit.

>>4714048
Did I say anything about a soul, kid?
fucking little autist cant handle anything that he hasn't read about in his pop-science magazines.

go back to /b/ you unphilosophical, illogical. irrational, and scientific zoo animal.

>>4714049
>>4714053
>has no arguments
>uses ad hominems

>>4714051
>implying hurr durr brains and machines is an argument
>implying proof
your beliefs are disgusting anyways.

>>4714052
fuck "science" then
wrong and even more wrong

>>4714056
>HURR DURR HUMANS ARE THIS AND THAT AND THAT'S FINAL
that's your argument

What an excellent thread.

>>4714051
hahahha that picture sums it up pretty well actually

>>4714060
>>4714058
Show me your fucking evidence. That's right, faggot. Science needs evidence.

I don't think anyone uses it as an excuse for cheating, I mean, if you want to spread your seed on every woman just don't get married.

It's more like a rationalization to why most people despise whores.

>>4714065
Soul weights 21 grams faggot. It's measured and proven. But i bet you'll finda way to deny this too.

>>4714060
At least my argument is backed up by science instead of stupid beliefs.

>>4714065
You show me first you fucking autistic machine.

>>4714070
Science is based on falsifiability and not evidence.
you're wrong, deal with it.

>>4714071
DDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPP

>implying herp derp

>>4714068
So the soul is actually physical and not really a soul at all?

Stop replying to the fucking dualist and free will troll. I bet it's IQ fundie posting without tripcode because he's evading his ban again.

Oh wait, I can see the evidence now! It makes sense! The proof is is this thread! I manipulated your biocomputers to getting TROLLED HARD!

AHHA FAGGOTS
>INB4 HURR DURR I DONT CARE ITS JUST MY BRAIN HURR DURR SO LOGICAL
YOU DON'T CARE? WELL YOUR BRAIN CARES
FAGOTS, ENJOY YOUR STUPID AND UNSCIENTIFIC AND OVERRATED MATERIALISM AND DETERMINISM
OBLIVIOUSLY WITH THE TALK OF RELIGION AND MAGIC IT SHOWS YOU'RE JUST A BUNCH OF POP-SCIENCE READING TARDS
I CHOOSE TO STOP POSTING NOW OUT OF MY OWN FREE-WILL! NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT

TROLLED HARD

>>4714084
But cant you see? They cant! it's all in their brain!
Right? that's what determinists believe, right?
enjoy your "biocomputer"

>>4714084
THEIR BRAIN WONT LET THEM
OH WAIT, AREN'T THEY THEIR BRAIN?
MATERIALIST LOGIC

>>4714085
Ay bro, you need to calm down bro.

Though the fact that you are reacting in such an amusing, visceral fashion kinda proves the non-existence of free will. Most of our behavior, common sense, and cognitive biases have been drummed into us through evolution. For example, getting emotionally involved during arguments while not being able to control how mad you are getting.

These are the contents of your head, nothing more. And we learned this before high school.

>>4714095
>as if that means anything

>>4714093
>kinda proves the non-existence of free will
No it doesn't. Can you falsify that?

>>4714085
Enjoy your ban, faggot.

>If biology was such a driving factor then we would be like animals humping anything that moved.

-We have porn of men and women fucking animals
-We have porn based on cartoons
-We have porn based on video game characters
-We have porn solely dedicated to each and every imaginable fetish

And if we ever encounter and coincide with aliens in the future, you can bet your sweet ass we will have porn of them too.

>>4714038

?/10

>>4714093
oh you motherfucker, i don't care about this thread at all but i'll be dammend if i'm going to just sit here and not reply angrily to a faggot such as yourself. did you just watch waking life for the millionth time or something? or do you just choose to ignore the fact that it was movie to make you think, not to lead your thoughts right into it?

either way, fuck u fag

>>4714096
>Can you falsify that?

It's really like I'm talking to a creationist. "Hurr durr you can't falsify my sky wizard so he must be true."
Get the fuck out of my science board.

>>4714105
Fuck you pop-science reading tard.
>pop-science
>science
pick 1.
the best theoretical physicist i know believe in free will
but their level of intelligence is something you cannot even drama of

>>4714096
A falsification would be something like I murder your child right in front of you, then you choose to not get enraged. This doesn't happen because evolution has drummed behaviors into us like self-preservation, care for kin, emotion, etc.

For the love of god, /sci. You can all come back when you've actually read a book on biology

>>4714104
>This guy.

Ay bro, you need to calm down bro.

>>4714106
Your retard friend who read a book on quantum mysticism doesn't count as theoretical physicist.
Show me the fucking evidence for your magic crap.

>>4714108
lel 10/10

>>4714112
you did didn't you? listen bro you better calm down and don't even think about saying that to my face

>>4714107
And you're implying that's 100% of what we are and is not controllable (not implying that's easy).

>>4714113
You're autism levels are so high they are magical.

>>4714106
>he quotes pseudo-authorities instead of facts

Way to show your lack of any evidence.

>>4714116
Bro you should enjoy life more bro.

Also: Ay. You need to calm down.

>>4714119
Show me the evidence. You know you have none and your ad hominem shit only proves my point.

>>4714119
We have metacognition that allows us to regulate our behaviors, but metacognition is simply a mechanistic feedback loop that is dependent on deterministic conditions like knowledge of yourself, your desired behavior, and how to achieve such behavior. It also is much weaker than the visceral, instinctive reactions we experience.

Read "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. He explains this very well.

>>4714121
Never presented any in the first place.

>>4714123
You're obviously not a superior HSP.

>>4714131
Yeah well I have precognitive dreams.

>>4714131
Like many others looking forward to the publication of this book, I was expecting what the early reviews promised, ie. real insight in how the brain works from an intellectual leader. Unfortunately I was disappointed at all fronts, this books is in fact a hodgepodge of fragmented information and anecdotes that do not make a story, and even worse, most of it has been covered very extensively in various popular articles and publications. The author is also misguided in attempting to write for the general reader, he simply does not have the knack to do this, and his attempt compromises the correctness and clarity of the presentation. This is _not_ a book that is useful for "by the water coller" discussions as the author proclaims, and neither is it a book providing useful insight for a more technical reader.

If this was all, it would simply be a missed opportunity and I would hardly be inclined to write a review about this. Unfortunately the book includes a surprising amount of erroneous claims, especially those related to mathematical concepts. More or less, the author claims that maths can tell is a lot about describing human choices, but his mathematical errors are so frequent and so basic that I do not have any confidence in his claims. I will pick one from page 181-182 which is so elementary that is enough to cast shadow on every other statement. On these pages, the author presents two claims which he states are mathematically equivalent. Putting aside the act that both can be interpreted in different ways, and so they do not actually represent well defined mathematical concepts, they are trivially not equivalent -- the one is a corollary of the other that is, one is contained in the other and thus the latter is wider than the former.

>>4714135
An example of the cognitive bias of selection bias. You ignore all the nonsense dreams that didn't correlate to a future event, and only pay attention to the ones that did.

My tulpa enjoyed this thread.

>>4714131
There are numerous such examples littering the book. However, at a more fundamental level, the author seem to have a complete lack of understanding of causality and statistics. In fact, he seems to actually claim in many places that observing correlation implies causality, one of the greater errors a scientist can fall into. Moreover, he seems to have no appreciation for the limitations of statistical descriptions -- this might be a minor concern for many, but there are real philosophical differences between a deterministic and a random view of the world, and the authors does not seem to be able to appreciate the differences.

For someone who has made his name on statistics these are all extremely unsettling issues and seem to indicate a very mechanistic approach which has nothing to do with deeper understanding or indeed be compatible with what I understand as the scientific process. Note that these problem is not one to lead to a great scientific debate, but rather indicate poor standards.

Finally, the author keeps referring to "his nobel" so frequently in this book which is simply annoying. Yes, we all know he is a Nobelist and yes, this is why we buy the book -- and in fact it says so with big letters on the cover. The author simply has to live up to this standard, not remind us what the standard is. One is tempted to believe that he intentionally does this to cover up the severe limitations of the book.

>>4714139
Not all dreams are precognitive, only a few are you retard.
i'm going to prove that "bias" of yours so hard in the future.

>>4714138
Cool 1 star Amazon review bro.

Your trolling effort, while transparent, is commendable.

>>4714141
i'm going to prove that "bias" of yours wrong so hard in the future.*

>>4714142
>random generalist book as proof of anything
whatever, you're wrong and that's that.
I decided with my own free will to leave this thread once and for all.
good bye, autist.

>>4714145
Have a good one bro.

Oh good lord. I post a rational opinion about free will and a shitstorm erupts. I hadn't been to /sci/ in a whle; I remember it being bad, but not this bad.

Who's this IQ Fundie guy? Like I said, I'd been gone for a while.

>There will never be a separate board for philosophy and college shit

Men are Kings of the earth and women only exist to create children. Nature made them weak, fearful, uncreative, and burdened them with painful menstruation and childbirth. Not only did nature make them attractive to men so that they'd be raped, but just for lulz nature made rape mentally traumatic for them. Women were made to be the slaves of men and to be punished for even being born. Men sleeping with women isn't "cheating", and they don't need an excuse to do it. It's not only their right but their biological obligation to fuck as many women as their merits allow them to.

>>4714160
came from /x/ 7/24 shitpost spammer. because he couldn't find the key to exit his basement and he has nothing better to do

>>4714160
IQ fundie is our resident philosophy troll. He believes in dualism, free will, qualia and a lot of other magical /x/ nonsense and ruins every thread with his spam. He's the worst tripfag right after EK.

>>4714112
Why calm down bro. Let's live to its full

>>4714167
>>4714165
>From /x/
>Dualism
>Free will
>qualia
>Comparably bad as EK
That sounds completely horrible! Fuck that guy.

>>4714162
Thats right. It's been proved that women bothers more with a man LOVING other woman rather than just having casual sex...

what we should and shouldn't do is all based on an object we set. Women's objectives include trying to balance the investment of companionship and fertility. As for men our motivation for fertility is much higher than women's. Women can only fertilize once every nine months. Men can fertilize once every (the amount of time it takes to ejaculate). As a result men who value fertility over companionship reproduce more than men who don't. That's why evolution made us so called PIGS.

>>4714176
lol are you drunk?

>>4714162
>that post
>nazi soldier smoking cig
you are /b/ and /r9k/ combined.
now go fuck off with your pseudo-sociopathlogic you misogynist

>>4714167
>He believes in dualism, free will, qualia and a lot of other magical /x/ nonsense
You're sure open-minded and rational.

Tell me, how can you live with yourself? Your life must be so colourless.

>>4714191
Fuck off, IQ fundie and don't evade your ban. I know it's you.

>>4714186
No, but I'm feeling a little stupid as I've been browsing /v/ a lot, lately. I guess I should train my brain a little to overcome that. Thankfully, there's a new (to me) sticky that would help with just that.

>>4714181
sex feels good you fucking ape.
you're everything wrong with the world
i just want to kill you people, i'd hunt you all down and slit slit slit

>>4714191
>colourless

dat fucking qualia joke

>>4714195
You cannot train your brain, it's set from birth.
>yourlogic

>>4714181
I'm the one who values companionship higher than fertility, and I don't care about reproducing. i see no point in it. All I want is someone to take care of me, while I take care of her.

[spoiler] is that asking too much? I want a gf :'( [spoiler]

IQ Fundie = Peak Oil Fundie?
Are they the same person?

>>4714191
I don't need magical voodoo mumbo-jumbo to enjoy life. Just because I think rationally and don't believe in free will doesn't mean I can't be entertained by science, cinema, video games, and friends.

>>4714187
You can't deny my logic, so you resort to ad hominem. Abandon wishful thinking and leftist brainwashing and you'll see reality for what it truly is, and be much better for it.

>>4714206
If by Peak Oil Fundie you mean RedCream, then no. I think I remember them both arguing against each other and IQ fundie made RedCream really mad.

>>4714206
didn't peak oil fundie use a lot of all caps?

>>4714201
I have a moderately above-average IQ (not that it matters), but that doesn't mean I haven't forgotten some math because I haven't used any.

>>4714208
right-wing nut detected
using evolution and science to justify his racist, sexist, and FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN beliefs.

>>4714207
>magical voodoo mumbo-jumbo
Jesus christ, you're fucking stupid and close-minded.
>legit philosophical topic
>HURR DURR I'M A 70 YEAR OLD NEW ATHEIST MAN AND THIS UPSETS ME

>>4714219
My IQ is 187.
plebeian, i think and feel and see things beyond you're comprehension.

<<< This is >>4714229 when submitting his troll post.

>>4714232
>thinks he has the world figured out after reading his pop-sci articles and books

whatever, qualia must continue after death, it's impossible not to.
free will (not the biblical kind) exists, simple as that.

>>4714229
Just joining in but why is in almost every culture the women set back and considerd weaker ?

The jews have to thank God everyday that they are not born a women.

187 IQ proof please ?

>>4714239
because too much testosterone and growing up in a sociopthic environment.

>>4714239
>Just joining in but why is in almost every culture the women set back and considerd weaker ?
Gonna take a crazy guess here and say they're considered weaker because they ARE weaker.

>>4714229
>>4714229
An IQ of 187? I always love to read about retards writing down their supposed IQ they just pulled out of their ass. An IQ of 187 would put you in the top 500 or so of the highest IQs to ever be officially recorded.

>>4714229
Because they conflict with your wishful thinking you deny biology, psychology, history, and common sense, on what basis? Nothing more than ad hominem.

You must excuse me, for I have no intention of replying to this pathetic diarrhea.

>>4714229
>IQ is 187
Idealistically, 100 is the median. "Genius-level" IQ is 130 or greater--even if that does sound a little small to most of us on /sci/. IQ, if I recall correctly, is one's ability to learn, solve problems, and process data. This of course also goes along with logical reasoning.

However within the confines of that post, there's an immense logical fallacy: that someone is close-minded for not agreeing with you. Arguments are (again idealistically) a way for two people to compare opinions and share knowledge, and if one person involved in the argument is wrong, he would change his mind due to the logic and/or sourced knowledge of his opponent. However, you claim that someone is close-minded merely because they disagree. If you disagree with them, in accordance with your logic you are equally as close-minded.

Such an immense logical fallacy evidences that you have a reasonably low IQ as it is quantitative logical ability.

In conclusion, eat shit.

>>4714247
Common sense is not falsifiable
go back to /pol/

>>4714242
>treat them like shit because weaker
>sociopathlogic
Nonetheless, I'll show you true pain, you'll see how really weak you truly are.

>>4714250
>i don't know anything about logic
>HURR DURR U STUPID LOW IQ HURR DURR
more proof IQ is based on education.

>>4714250
I love when austists shut people down.

>>4714260
>treat them like shit because weaker
>treat them like shit
Way to put words in my mouth. I was only asking your question of "why are they considered weaker". Because they are.

>>4714266
Austists? Just shut up you retard.

>>4714267
>implying you aren't just as weaker
>implying being strong is a good thing

>>4714271
make me OH WAIT YOU CANT HURR DURR ITS MY BRAIN WONT LET ME HURR DURR CANT STOP WONT STOP