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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4538836 No.4538836 [Reply] [Original]

Why is every fucking fag telling me it would be impossible that electrons actually do orbit the nucleus according to Newtonian laws of Physics; and that it would spiral toward the nucleus, transforming to a neutron, emitting vast amounts of energy if those laws were unconditional?

Sure that can happen. But electrons CAN orbit an equal positive charge, WITHOUT LOOSING ENERGY, by strictly following Newtonian laws. I even ran a personal simulation, and I got an electron to orbit a proton. It was wobbling, but it did actually sustain the property of a hydrogen atom for tens of thousands of circulations, until I decided to abort the simulation.

>> No.4538855

because it is

>> No.4538857

>>4538855
Are you telling me that my computer did something impossible?

I have verified my code and all it calculates is gravitational and electromagnetic forces.

>> No.4538859

>>4538857
Does it account for the constantly changing velocity? Or how about the fact that only S orbitals are spherical?

>> No.4538863

>>4538859

Check mate
>>4538857

>> No.4538864

> by strictly following Newtonian laws.
Oh, did the babby forget to apply electrodynamics? How cute!

The electron will radiate energy, see Bremsstrahlung radiation.

>> No.4538866

> I even ran a personal simulation, and I got an electron to orbit a proton.
So it's 100% precise? No numerical error as well?

>> No.4538869

>2015
>Modeling electrons and protons as balls

>> No.4538879

They forget that gravity doesn't affect the electron since it is moving at the speed of light

>> No.4538880

if electrons accelerate, they radiate energy

orbiting involves centripetal acceleration

electrons don't have infinite energy

>> No.4538882

>>4538879
it has mass and does not move at light speed. Just so you know.

>> No.4538884

>>4538879
lolwut

>> No.4538894

Cut it out with the caps, op, you're loosing your cool.

>> No.4538959
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4538959

>He thinks electrons are little hard balls that fly round the nucleus in a circular orbit like the intro to Big Bang theory

Get an education past high-school, please.

>> No.4538965

>>4538836
The operative being "WITHOUT LOOSING ENERGY". An electron wouldn't orbit without losing energy, it would emit photons while orbiting and spiral into the nucleus.

>> No.4538966

>Doesn't realize that with a 1/r^2 potential, you'll ALWAYS have a stable orbit, and it's actually virtually impossible to make something collide with the center unless it was initially pointed directly at it.
> Doesn't realize that if this didn't work, the earth would've smashed into the sun long ago.
> Doesn't realize that the ENTIRE POINT is that an accelerating charge radiates light, and THIS is what makes the electron spiral towards to the center.

Noob detected.

>> No.4538974

Electrodynamics, bitch. Accelerating charges radiate, and orbit requires acceleration.

Atoms. Are. Not. Little. Solar. Systems.

>> No.4538979
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4538979

>>4538966

>Doesn't realize the planets ARE spiraling toward the sun over the eons.

>> No.4538980

Your model gets the answers wrong. End of story.

>> No.4538984

>>4538979
Irrelevant. We're telling OP why his model is naive and wrong. If anything, you're helping that argument.

>> No.4538988

ITT: Highschoolfags who think the Bohr model is the one pure Truth of the universe
LOL my sides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_model#Shortcomings

All models are wrong, but some are useful.

>> No.4538989
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4538989

>>4538979
>Doesn't realize that the planets are NOT systematically spiraling towards the sun

>> No.4538991

>>4538979
>implying that the sun won't enter red giant phase before we are so close that something significant would happen

we're fucked when sun leaves the main sequence anyway

>> No.4538993

>>4538989
There's tidal forces generating heat as they deform planets and such, but it's a really small effect.

>> No.4539001

>>4538993
Yea, but you have all the interactions between the planets as well, and this tends to affect the orbits of the planets FAR more (and also in a chaotic fashion).

Case in point: the moon is drifting away from the earth, even though tidal effects alone would have the opposite effect.

>> No.4539018

Have we figuresd out the stability of the solar system yet? cause its a case of n body problem?

>> No.4539702

>>4538979
>>4538989
>doesn't realize that the stability of planetary orbit is because expansion of the universe counteracts the gravitational attraction
>inb4 hurr durr expansion only applies on a large scale; that's precisely because gravity is too strong at small scales

>> No.4539714

>>4538979
>doesn't realize that the moon is gradually moving AWAY from the Earth

>> No.4539717
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4539717

>>4539702

>> No.4539720

>>4539702
>>doesn't realize that the stability of planetary orbit is because expansion of the universe counteracts the gravitational attraction
hahaha what

>> No.4539779
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4539779

>>4539702

>> No.4539782
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4539782

>>4538836

>> No.4539799

Include electromagnetic field into your simulation.

>> No.4539835

>>4538864
Not Bremsstrahlung Radiation.
It's Synchrotron Radiation.

Assuming he started with a circular orbit, the acceleration is perpendicular to the velocity. On the other hand, Bremsstrahlung is "braking" radiation, meaning the acceleration is against the velocity.

Anyway, you can add radiation to your simulation, OP. Just subtract kinetic energy from the electron at the rate of <span class="math"> P = \frac{2 e^2 a^2}{3 c^3} [/spoiler], the Larmor formula.

>> No.4539889

>>4538869
I run molecular dynamics simulations of hot plasmas and I treat ions and electrons as point particles. Problem?