/sci/ - Science & Math

>Political Science
>Science

>pick two(!?!?!)

>>4502051

So an image of some text highlighted without any proof or reference changes everything? Shit. I bet you're a CS major.

Fuck you and your shitty school

>>4502067
Whats the difference between stupid and cognitively impaired.

>>4502071
The impaired try, the stupid just don't bother.

Vandals at the gate. (Google it)
Because Americans treat education as a market place their Universities must deliver a product that will sell.
The Education ideology has changed from expanding minds to expanding bank balances.
It makes me MAD but there is not much I can do about it other than vote.

>>4502067
And genuine passion for a subject counts for nothing?

>>4502222
Nope the only factor that counts is bums on seats. The commercial interests of the Yank education system override all.

>>4502067
PHYSICS AND MATH-
EMATICS
ARE FOR PEOPLE
WHO CAN'T
MAKE A
POINT WITHOUT
PRESSING
ENTER
20
TIMES

>Political science.
>science.
I lol'ed

Look at all the physicists trying to be on the same tier as mathematicians...

This is great. Looool.

>>4502241
Was talking about the picture and peoples motivation for course choice, sorry.
I've seen some brilliant minds follow paths that many would consider beneath them because it was their passion.

>>4502210

The free market will solve it.

>>4502254
>The free market has fucked it.
fixed

>>4502254
Not really. People learning for the sake of learning isn't something that is beneficial for the free market in the short-term, and 'free market' doesn't want to wait 30 years before they break even.

Thus, it's better for them to sell education (via huge debts) like any other products. It doesn't matter to them if you are smart or not, they care about monies.

It's capitalism, you either sink or swim here. And, well, the game is rigged from the start if you're a poorfag.

>>4502250
I don't know how much physics you've taken in (high) school, but physics IS math. It's just applied to something we actually need it for, i.e. reality. Proofs in physics have to be just as rigorous as those in mathematics, and ours even have to stand up to real-life tests. We do bullshit a lot with ignoring things that should be in problems, but we also try to deal with ideal situations. Physics is closer to math than any other subject out there.

>>4502445
>Physics is closer to math than any other subject out there.
Theoretical computer science and logic beat it, but I guess its pretty close.

>>4502457
>Math
>Theoretical computer science

This is an utter lie. Please stop spreading it.

>>4503792
you know the NP problem is one of the clay mathematics millenium prizes?

>>4503792
totally true. look into churches thesis for example. or complexity theory

>>4502246
>>4502250
cool sage

hard science fags confirmed for retarded

>>4502222
also, truth in quads

I can't wait until I finish my neuroscience degree and make more money than all of you.

>>4503800
>you know the NP problem is one of the clay mathematics millenium prizes?

You know most CS students, CS grad students, CS professors, and even CS textbook authors have a extremely shitty understanding of the NP problem and most real work done on it is by real Mathematician when they're bored/free.

>>4503823
yes, but that's not what i was discussing.

i was saying theoretical computation is very much a mainstream maths subject. a lot is pretty much pure maths, as much of it has little application.

i did a pure maths degree, we did church's thesis.

>>4503805
Does it have/use Group theory, Lie Algebra, Complex Analysis, or Partial Differential Equations? These make up a massive and indispensable part of modern mathematics as well physics.

>same league as Mathematics, Real Science and Engineering.
>Still no insults about engineers being lower class?

What happen to all the trolls today?

>>4503840
>picks a small part of maths
you can't even do set theory.

i don't have to show theoretical computation intersects one particular subset of maths to show that it is maths.

just as i don't have to show 3 is a subset of the even numbers (which of course it isn't) to show it's an integer.

learn to fucking reason and argue before you derp

>>4503840
predicate logic doesn't either, yet it is maths.

why are you doing that "if i haven't experienced it, it isn't the case" thing?

>some shitty university makes a shitty policy
>IT'S OFFICIAL!
Fuck off

>>4503843
Why would I bother insulting engineers? They wouldn't see it anyway, seeing as this is a math and science board and they aren't scientists.

>>4503840
scroll down to the C's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_areas_of_mathematics

>>4503853
> you can't even do set theory.

lulz. It's even funnier because set theory is mostly worthless to a physicist,

This elitism is one of the reasons i dread coming to this board.

Get your heads out of your asses, people...

>>4503879
all of maths rests upon set theory.

and i have no beef with physics or physicists, just idiots that say theoretical computing isn't maths

>>4503880
If you're taking anything /sci/ says seriously, you need to take a break from this board.

>>4503887
as for much stupidity as there is on /sci/, there is sometimes good discussion

>>4503887
A better idea would be not to come to /sci/ until you can pick out the bullshit and memes from actual discussion.

>>4503883
Sure, and that's not even remotely relevant to a physicist who can do his gauge theory just fine as long as he has a representation of his Lie group. Hell, I'm pretty sure there's a reasonable amount of them who just use covariant derivatives to just 'make shit invariant' rather than understanding anything about horizontal subbundles of a tangent bundle.

>>4503911
>horizontal subbundles of a tangent bundle.
Wat? I was with you until you got there... lol....
You a physics grad student or what?

>>4503853
>picks a small part of maths
Analysis, Algebra, and 'Mathematical Logic' form the sum total of mathematics with some over lap. Physics uses over 2/3s of all mathematics. CS uses less than a 1/4. Hence <span class="math">[/spoiler] >>Physics is closer to math than any other subject out there. >Theoretical computer science beat it,<span class="math">[/spoiler] is completely false.

>>4503930
So topology doesn't exist now?
Anyway, computer science is closer to mathematics because DOING 1/4 of math is closer to math itself than USING all of it.

>>4503930
>Economics
>you´re fucked

>>4503938
Topology mostly falls under set theory (mathematical logic) and analysis with parts of it under algebra as well.

>>4503938
>contribution to maths by cs
zero results

>>4503962
Combinatorics, for starters

>>4503962
sup

>>4503953
And what makes you classify it like that?
<--This guy, by the way, classifies the main areas of math as Geometry, Algebra, and Analysis. However, it is worth noting that he is not truly classifying the "areas of mathematics" but rather "types of mathematical techniques". There are many areas of math, obviously, and it is silly to force them all into those three areas, but you almost always are using techniques from those areas.

Its also worth mentioning that theres a 50 page or so section on complexity theory in that book.

>>4503930
>Analysis, Algebra, and 'Mathematical Logic'
not even close to being true, and also not the claim i disputed. if you want to move the goalposts, then herpity derpity

>Physics uses over 2/3s of all mathematics.
again, nonsense, and obviously a number you just pulled out of the air. pure maths graduate here. you use almost none of my shit.

just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>CS uses less than a 1/4.
again, probably made up numbers (nice maths skills boy!), but yes CS is less mathematical than physics. but again, not the point i'm disputing

>Theoretical computer science
again, if your reasoning was any good, you'd know you cannot infer from CS a property of another field, which just happens to use the same word "computing". next you'll be saying environmental science is more scientific than physics because it has the word science in it

really, you are just too stupid for words

>>4503966
that's contribution to cs by math

>>4503953
Yeaaaaah no. I could say that Lie groups are just diff geo + group theory, diff geo is just multivariable analysis, and make a couple of other ridiculous simplifications this way.

>>4503930
Oh, I got another one! Know what math is composed of? Math. Hence, physics uses all of it.

>>4503969
computer engineering=/=CS

you guys do realise that theoretical computing existed before computing?

>Economics

>>4503985
calculators have no real architectural differences from PCs. they got the CPU, the RAM, the ROM the data, control and address buses. so all that's really left to do is the code work. most likely done by CS graduates alongside math graduates

>>4503974
>pure maths graduate here. you use almost none of my shit

So what do you work on, Mr "pure math"?

>>4503930
missed geometry, operational research, combinatorics

>Hate on engineers
Grounded in the fact that engineers earn good money, can usually enter graduate programmes in sciences like applied physics and mathematics so they get the best of both worlds
>Hate on computer science
Because it is easy like biology. And this is true, except of course for theoretical computer science. Also hated because CS is making stupidly-rapid progress.

>>4502067
denying the fact that biology and chemistry go together is retarded

>>4504005
number theory was my main thing

maybe 1% of it is used in cryptography, and 0.01% in some speculative areas of quantum mechanics. but it's almost all inapplicable, and perhaps one of the biggest areas of mathematics. gauss called it the queen of mathematics

>>4504025
>pretends to be a mathematician, working in number theory
>does not even capitalize Gauss

Troll harder, nigga.

>>4504002
>simple calculator that only displays the input expression and result
>running Code or an OS
no, I wouldn't be surprise if all the functions are done purely in hardware. Even if it runs code, most of it would be done the engineers working on it.

>>4504018
funny, but it's not necessary to guard pure maths. there's so much of it and applied mathematicians only take tiny little chunks for their own, often to the delight of the pure mathematicians as it helps justify their tenure.

>>4504025
I'm wasting my time here because I dont want to go back to my modular forms. Them bastards promised me interesting stringy Riemann surfaces application yet all I get is boring number theory :(

>>4504037

http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=20&weekday=tue

>>4504025
> but it's almost all inapplicable, and perhaps one of the biggest areas of mathematics.
>my field is almost completely useless

Good to know.

>>4504033
gauss, euler, fermat, legendre

deal with it

(yes i put him up there)

>>4504041
i'm ok with this

>>4503880
EVERYONE ELSE WHO DIDN'T STUDY THE SAME THING AS ME IS LESS INTELLIGENT THAN ME.

>>4504036
you don't know how ROM works do you? a programmer needs to write program in it and due to the incredibly slow write time/lack of resources this has to be done in assembly or machine code. and even if it is engineers doing it (which it may well not be) it is still computer science being applied to the problem.

>>4504074
>a programmer needs to write program in it and due to the incredibly slow write time/lack of resources this has to be done in assembly or machine code.

> incredibly slow write time
Writing to what, there's no HDD, SDD, or printer. The screen output is probably just a result buffers hardwired to decoders that selects which LEDs to activate. There's no write command.
>lack of resources
It's 201X and extra 4kb and 6kb extra in a chip is nothing. How much more do you need?
>has to be done in assembly or machine code.
Do you know even what they even are? No one writes machine code, just as no one writes ROMs in circuitry by hand. Simple assemblers are extremely easy and quick to write straight from the Hardware description of the CPU.

>it is still computer science being applied to the problem.
You lost me. Beside involving something resembling a computer there nothing in common, and CS isn't about computers.