/sci/ - Science & Math

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

becasue its unstable?

The universe being an eternal (and external) thing, doesn't inherently deny the possibility of a God.

If inanimate objects are completely deterministic, then it's not like they are of any real consequence anyway, right? They just follow the rules: space, time, etc. We tend to ascribe sparse, stoic human feelings to the impartiality of reality, but even that is going too far. Only living things can change the boring, fixed nature of things, and by that reasoning, only living things even exist.

What that means, is that the old expression about 'if there is no God, we have to create one,' is actually true. If there was no God, someone would have to go about making one. It's the consequence of evolution/process of elimination, or perhaps something more....divine. Something musical and glorious that transcends just removing errors. And by all that we understand so far, there's a pretty good chance that this has already happened.

This would also more completely explain why there are bad guys in the various religions. Prisoner's dilemma. Someone is upset that being selfish doesn't work in the grand scheme of things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

>>4499592
so god will die if humans die?

I used to be an atheist until I had a near death experience.

I don't see ANYTHING wrong with believing a god. Unless they're hypocrites. But you can say the same thing for Atheists.

>>How did the Big Bang happen
>>I don't know
>>Then why can't I believe in a God?

>>4499648
> I used to think rationally until my brain was starved of oxygen.

Physical reality is itself a paradox. Deal with it.

>>4499650
>>4499650
Just because we have no way of unifying quantum mechanics and relativity at the Planck epoch doesn't mean you can immediately jump to the conclusion that a diety exists. Shut the fuck up.

>>4499654
Please explain.

>>4499672
You're talking about iterating this "x was caused by x" to the point of the beginning of the universe.
Eventually, even if it's an infinite number of these iterations down, you'll ask, "What caused causality?"
You can't describe the existence of physial reality without some sort of paradox, I believe, therefore physical reality must be a strange sort of paradox in itself.

>>4499681
It's obviously not a paradox or it wouldn't exist.

The universe does exist, and due to cause and effect, stars exist, planets exist and life exists. There is no need for a god.
How exactly did the universe form? It did form, and there is no need for a god, unless that god only wrote the laws of physics, but that is unrealistic, I think.
If one wishes to attribute magic to only one event, then insert angels, jesus, muhammad, gods and demons, heaven and hell, then I will say that person is stupid and insane.
Those things do not exist in reality.

what if the universe IS god

>>4499705
what if you're a faggot

>>4499718
u mad?

>>4499530
>Why does the universe have to have been made?

Who said it did?

\thread

I used to be an atheist, until I found the image of Jesus on my grilled cheese sandwich

>>4499705
what if my penis IS Zeus

Frankly, I have nothing against believers in any gods of their choice, as long as they don't try to explain any od the shit that goes on with their influence.
>probably means I hate 98% of religious people

I mean seriously, world being 6000 years old? Earth being flat, at the center of the universe?

Also, I despise practically all organized religion. It has fucked over our world since mankind crawled out of the slime, and it's a high time to put an end to it.

>MFW turns out I actually dislike pretty much every religious person after all, with very few exceptions

>>4499749
>Implying my PENIS isn't Zeus

>>4499752
Religious people are fucking scum

\thread

>>4499752
Buddhism is pretty peacefully, i think.

>>4499752
Organized religion is a good tool for keeping people in check, and I don't understand why people dislike it.

>>4499530
>assume that the god you speak of is a normal person in the layer above us.

>>4499817
nope.

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2.The Universe began to exist.
3.Therefore, the Universe had a cause.

The point of the cosmological argument is that infinite causal regress is irrational. You cannot have a chain of contingent causes ad infinitum. This is why a "Necessary Being" is posed among philosophers.

Thoughts?

OP you are missing the point. If anything "just is and always was" it would totally lend into religious thought.

Regardless if it's God or the entire universe it opens up the possibility for heaven/hell, reincarnation, snake eating its tail, karma, sin, etc.

>>4499979
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2.God began to exist.
3.Therefore, God had a cause.

How about it, Blowjob?

>>4499989

Anything that begins has an end. According to most Theists/Deists, the Supreme Deity (or Deities) that they worship has always existed and will always exist, and because it has never not existed it will never cease to exist. It is a being of self-perpetuating existence that exists outside the physical realm that we inhabit. It is not subject to time because time has never affected it. To posit that a necessary being was caused is absurd because said necessary being does not exist as a material entity, and causality is a law that governs action and reaction and cause and effect in this universe. Saying that something that does not exist within the material realm is to be governed by its laws is thus necessarily absurd.

A deity as necessary being is required for the Universe to have a begin because the Universe is not spontaneous. Things do not just "happen". Space and time and whatever other dimensions to existence there may be do not just come into existence- for there to be ANY effect must first require a proceeding and related cause. A being, that exists outside of the Universe, that has always existed and will always exist, must have made the Universe to exist because the cause must not have come from within- as there was no "within" in the first place- and thus was required to be from without.

>>4500026
>It is not subject to time because time has never affected it.
Then it can not think, create, or act in any real sense.

>>4500041

Not in the sense of thinking as we think about it - as a deity isn't matter, nor anything else in the universe.

I am simply stating how the cosmological argument works in a theist's view. I am an atheist :)

>>4500026
>Things do not just "happen" (...thus god created it)
>that has always existed and will always exist

And that's my problem with religion. We DON'T KNOW what caused out universe to exist, but is that the reason that some all-powerful being existing since ever and forever has caused it?

And how can something be eternal and exist outside of all of out senses/dimensions etc? If it exists outside of all dimensions and we can't preceive it in any way, how can it interact with our dimensions?

Oh, but of course it's all powerful, so he/it/whatever can do anything it wants!
>seriously?


>God is a sound that people make when they're too tired of thinking"
truer words never spoken


It's pure guesswork, nothing more nothing less. To attribute it to some 'higher being' is to simply sweep all questions under the rug with an assumption that there is no possible way for us to ever know.

Which I find to be rediculous

>>4500054
Fucking spellchecks, how do they work?

disregard them typos

>>4500047
Fair enough.
I think there is a flaw in the argument, because the chain of cause and effect requires time. To say that we have an ultimate cause that exists outside time makes no sense.

>>4499758
>>4499758
>>4499758
>>4499758
>>4499758
>>4499758
>>4499758
THIS THIS THIS

You must have stolen that line from my head, every time my Christian friend says "that's so GAY lol" or "I don't believe in evolution, it just doesn't make sense lol!" I feel as if maybe loneliness is better than having no friends.

People are scum, cannot be trusted, religious people even less.
A mental disorder, a delusion.
Even Atheists make fun of Dawkins, but he is 100% right no matter what you say.
That is rationality, when what you say makes sense and can be explained.

A lot of the more mature deistic/theistic arguments that I hear are along the lines of "You can't know the unknowable. The God I'm thinking of exists in a realm inconceivable to us"

Which is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. If something is inconceivable, then what the fuck are you talking about when you refer to it? If it is inconceivable, then that's the end of the discussion, and you can quit your ramblings. Whatever is in your head when you refer to an inconceivable being is, by the very definition of inconceivable, wrong.