/sci/ - Science & Math

>what is the difference between atheism, agnosticism and antitheism?
Atheism -- has to do with whether or not there are gods
Agnosticism -- has to do with knowledge
Antitheism -- has to do with totally opposing the idea of gods existing.

>how was your day?
Not too shitty actually, just relaxed the whole day

>what are your skills?
Cooking and driving women away

>why hasn't there been a more "metric" SI unit of time? The second is fine, but sixty seconds make a minute, sixty minutes make an hour and twenty-four hours make a day. Why not use a unit that follows the standard "powers-of-ten" paradigm?
people are retarded that's why

>>4390718
Thanks for your answers!
>Cooking and driving women away
Don't be ridiculous, women love a man who can cook.

>does light exist in the vacuum of space because of its wave-particle duality? There is no medium through which the waves can move (because it's a vacuum), right?
Light is electromagnetic. Electromagnetic waves do not require a medium.

>>4390704
There have been languages, though I forget the name, made specifically to be very easy to learn. I don't understand why we don't all just learn one, either, but oh well.

My day was not bad, and you?

I suppose my only true skills at the moment are rudimentary Japanese, moderate skill in programming, and the ability to learn. Not always the motivation, though.

>>4390723
That's very cynical of you...

>>4390735
Wow, I feel stupid now. Thanks, though.

>>4390737
>Don't be ridiculous, women love a man who can cook.
Tell that to the hordes of women running away from me

>>4390704
>why hasn't there been a more "metric" SI unit of time? The second is fine, but sixty seconds make a minute, sixty minutes make an hour and twenty-four hours make a day. Why not use a unit that follows the standard "powers-of-ten" paradigm?

Because then we'd need all new universal constants, plus its not precisely easy to change the way one measures time, its so important from day to day.

>>4390751
>My day was not bad, and you?
My day was all right, thanks. I spent most of it reading about Feynman's lectures, haha.

>>4390776
>Because then we'd need all new universal constants, plus its not precisely easy to change the way one measures time, its so important from day to day.
The non-scientific community could use the existing system and there could be a different way of measuring time in science.

Units of time are in multiples of 60 because the first system used to measure time numerically (that we know of) was ancient Messopotamia, who made a thousand years of astronomical calculations and recorded them on clay tablets using their time measurements.

Which were in Base 60. (1,2,3,4,5... 59,100,101)

>>4390816
Fucking Sumerians, with their shitty system.

>>4390816
The day has twenty-four hours, though, which is 4/10 of 60.

>what is the difference between atheism, agnosticism and antitheism?

By most commonly used meanings, each can be reduced to the following:

Let "God" represent some deity(ies)

Atheism: "No belief that God does exist". Some self-proclaimed atheists instead use: "Belief that God doesn't exist" There is a difference. The first one is a naive statement, the second is an affirmative.

Agnosticism: No belief that God does exist AND No belief that God doesn't exist (tl;dr, no belief presented regarding God's existence)

Antitheism: Nebulous. Can mean: Belief that God doesn't exist; Belief that it is not ok to believe that God exists; Belief that God exists AND belief that it is not ok to worship God. The list goes on. I hate using this term since the meaning changes almost exclusively as a matter of personal opinion.

>"logical" languages

Language is highly susceptible to change over time. You can make language have a purely logical base, but some will find that in order to convey complicated concepts, basic logic alone takes forever or is boring. Humans generally hate boring and complicated things, and such things are selected against over time.

>>4390822

That, if I understand it, was because that's how many hours turned out to be in a day (which turned out to be pretty accurate). There is no symbolic meaning to 24 any more than there is a meaning to 4 when you ask the questions "What is 2+2?". It's just what the answer turned out to be.

>>4390824
Thanks for your answers! The picture made me chuckle.

>>4390832
Oh, I understand now. Thanks!

The SI unit of time is the second. Minutes, hours, etc. are NOT SI units. In science you wouldn't say something takes 20 minutes, you would say it takes 1.2*10^3 seconds.

>why hasn't there been proliferation of "logical" languages such as Lojban in the scientific community? I understand cultural preservation, but science isn't exactly a cultural thing (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I believe Latin used to be this in the scientific community, yes? I remember reading textbooks that had mirrored pages - one side in Latin, the other in English, mainly dating before the 20th century. Makes sense to me; Latin doesn't seem like a language that gets mucked up by idiosyncrasies like English does (although those idiosyncrasies are what make English, and other languages, beautiful and necessary for all other purposes. Plus, I can think of many metaphors that are both beautiful and practical in the scientific sense - think "apple pie from scratch").

>>4390832
>that's how many hours turned out to be in a day

>>4390866
Nah, he's right. If the system is in base 60, it goes up to 60, that's a minute. So they try again, that's 60 minutes, that's an hour. Then they find that the whole day doesn't got for 60 hours, but 24. So they say, "Fuck it," and make a day 24 hours. Then of course they find that a year is not 60 or 24 days but 365 days, so there's that, and so on, and so on. Kinda breaks down after minutes.

>>4390860
Oh, okay. I understand now, I just have a problem with how the second is connected to the minute and the hour, which both don't make much sense to me.

>>4390862
That's a very good point, and I understand how English could be used for public accessibility; however, wouldn't it be much more efficient to have a universal language (other than maths) for a world of scientists to use in their collaborations?

>why hasn't there been proliferation of "logical" languages such as Lojban in the scientific community? I understand cultural preservation, but science isn't exactly a cultural thing (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Lojban is too complex for its own good. Natural languages are sufficient, and make sense (because we grew up learning them). It's not like people don't use conlangs such as Esperanto though.

>how was your day?
Bluh
>what are your skills?
Programmin, maths, language :3

>>4390883
What you're talking about would be less of a "language" and more of a "code," and there's plenty of that already in the scientific world; new codes get invented every day. Like >>4390886 said, we grew up with our languages. Not only is it time-consuming to learn a whole new syntax/grammar/vocabulary set just for the sake of science, it's also inefficient and probably breaks down at some level anyway, just like language does. That's why we have metaphors and creative, innovative thinkers to come up with ways to express new ideas (like Feynman and quantum electrodynamics and such).

>>4390886
>Lojban is too complex for its own good.
Really? I think that it's far more predictable (and, therefore, far more simple) than languages like English.

>Bluh
Good "bluh" or bad "bluh"?

>>4390883
>Oh, okay. I understand now, I just have a problem with how the second is connected to the minute and the hour, which both don't make much sense to me.

The origin of the second as a unit is simply 1/60th of a minute, which is turn was 1/60th of an hour, which was 1/24th of a day, so that the definition of a second was 1/86400th of a day.

That's still the common usage of second. However, the SI unit is no longer defined as such, because the day itself can vary ever so slightly in length. The SI unit of a second is equal to (from wikipedia):

>the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.

>>4390883
>however, wouldn't it be much more efficient to have a universal language (other than maths) for a world of scientists to use in their collaborations?

So every scientist has to learn a second language that nobody else could understand? Why wouldn't they all learn an existing language, like English, which incidentally is vastly more nuanced and flexible than any artificial language?

base 12 is convenient because it's easier to do mental math with it, since it has so many integer factors

also the reason that the laymen's US measurement system is base 12 (12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 5280 feet in a mile, etc.) but scientists use metric for precision.

>>4390898
I was thinking more along the lines of a universal code, but I see your point.

>>4390903
>the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.
It blows my mind how things like these can be figured out. The duration of the second existed before this, though, so how did people decide how long a second was going to be in the first place?

>>4390876
>>4390832

I want so badly to believe that you guys are trolling.

>>4390898
Also,
>how was your day
Slimey.
>skills
I don't even know anymore. Science, why not.

>>4390919
>so how did people decide how long a second was going to be in the first place?

I told you. 1/86400th of a day.

>>4390914
>Why wouldn't they all learn an existing language, like English, which incidentally is vastly more nuanced and flexible than any artificial language?
It just seems a little ethnocentric to me.

>>4390917
That's really interesting, thanks!

>>4390816
>Which were in Base 60. (1,2,3,4,5... 59,100,101)

No, no, no, fucking no. 60 is written 10 in base 60, not 100. Jesus.

>>4390922
Well, I mean, I -am- talking out of my ass.

>>4390933

Well, yes, but I don't have 59 one-digit characters that I could use as references for an example.

>>4390904
It's like a programming language, in a sense. There are identifies for paragraphs and even more complicated things to learn about. There is absolutely no reason to learn something new like that when what we have absolutely works. And in todays world, there are many scientists who speak more than one language, as well as many translators. Frankly, language isn't an issue in science. Also, Lojban is neckbeard tier. A little ambiguity doesn't hurt anybody, and if things are confused, they can be specified.

>Good "bluh" or bad "bluh"?

A bit of both really. Had a shit day, had a good idea, had some inspiration.

>>4390924
>Slimey.
I don't want to ask what that means but I think I should.
>I don't even know anymore. Science, why not.
You're also very articulate.

>>4390928
How did they measure the length of a day? How did they divide it up into 86400 pieces?

>>4390939
>I don't have 59 one-digit characters

Um, yes you do.

>>4390947

Not ones that go in an intuitive order from low to high that could be easily understood by anyone as they were being used as a quick offhand example.

>>4390946
>How did they measure the length of a day?

What do you mean? It's a day. As in the sun going across the sky. It wasn't measured, it WAS the measure.

>>4390945
>Also, Lojban is neckbeard tier.
Ouch, that hurts.
>A bit of both really. Had a shit day, had a good idea, had some inspiration.
Good, I'm glad.

>>4390951
So was 180 divided by 86400 to determine the angle through which the sun would move through the sky in one second?

I still don't understand. :/

>>4390946

If you use the second, minute and hour (derived from base 60) as basic measurements, look at the movement of the sun through the sky, take into account its daily motion around the analemma, you can determine the time it takes for the sun to move through the sky to the precise position it should be if one day (full night and day cycle) has passed.

As I said, these guys had a bit of experience staring at the sky, so it wasn't that hard a calculation

>>4390959

What? No. A day was a day: noontime to noontime, if you want. An hour was 1/24th of a day, by definition. A minute was 1/60th of an hour, by definition. A second was 1/60th of a minute, by definition.

>>4390961
>As I said, these guys had a bit of experience staring at the sky, so it wasn't that hard a calculation
Yeah, they probably did. Thanks!

>>4390971
All right, I get it now. Thanks for your help in this thread!

>>4390961

You have it backwards. The hour, minute, and second come from the day, not the other way around. Your way makes no sense.

>>4390955
Hey, if you enjoy it, more power to you. But you should at least recognize it's not really going to gain much momenetum and popularity. It is interesting as a language. If you're interested in languages and linguistics, there is an IRC channel I go on usually. #/lang/ on Rizon.

>I understand cultural preservation, but science isn't exactly a cultural thing (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Science is a purely cultural artifact.

>>4390992
That sounds interesting -- I'll definitely look into it.

>>4391002
Could you please elaborate on that?

OP can we discuss your picture? by putting the images together like that are they alluding to the idea that out universe could be a brain for something greater?

>>4391030
I interpreted it as a visual representation of how nature adheres to certain parameters that work (which is why the two images look similar).

It additionally serves the purpose of uniting us with the universe and with each other.

>>4391035
oooo that makes more sense.

>>4391046
Remember that it's just my interpretation. I might not be correct.

OP is a fucking retard, see-

>Hello, gentlemen (and ladies) of /sci/
>what is the difference between atheism, agnosticism and antitheism?
>does light exist in the vacuum of space because of its wave-particle duality? There is no medium through which the waves can move (because it's a vacuum), right? (LOL@ this 1 gaiz)

my day was shit OP
my skills are; fucking excellent at everything I do (linguistics, mathematics, etc.)

>>4391096
That was the point of this thread, anon -- me learning. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.

>my day was shit OP
That's unfortunate. Do you want to talk about it?
>my skills are; fucking excellent at everything I do (linguistics, mathematics, etc.)
What is your major, if you don't mind me asking?

>>4391096
>"gaiz"

>>4391205
>Do you want to talk about it?
>/sci/entist
>wanting to talk about his feelings

You really are a retard OP

>>4391221
You guys have feelings, too!

>>4391234
Aaaaand the average IQ of this board just went down by fifty points

don't mind the douchers OP, I enjoyed this thread

>>4391241
I've never heard that word before, and it made me laugh.

I'm glad you enjoyed the thread, anon!

>>4391096
calm the fuck down asshole, OP was asking some honest questions

>>4391096
> Skills are fucking excellent at everything he does
> Except for being able to have a nice day
> And not being a total dickwad

>>4391261
>>4391270
Don't get mad at him, guys, he mentioned that he was having a bad day.

(I think that this thread may have been derailed a bit...)

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Ok,
Take a circle.
Now take the concept of ratios.
Now take the diameter, radius and circumference of the circle.
Now work out with number system has the most sense to it.

There are roughly 365 days in a year, there are also roughly 360 degrees in a circles angle.

and you see 360, and instantly with the knowledge of ratios you know that 6 times 6 is 36, so 60 times 60 is 360.

Your now looking at the world through base 6 maths.

60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, both 10 times 6, ten being the number of fingers we have and our logical maths system.

You then see there are 24 hours in a day, which is also a base 6 derivative.

Its logical progression from "oh a circle has 360 degrees" to "oh there are 365 days and 365 nights between the shortest day on christmas each year (roughly) and we "circle the sun" which adds up.

just think in terms of diving the day in your own system, sure you can make one, but not one that is so elegant and not one filled with divisible ratios that can be used for further calculations to great accuracy.

babylonians must suffer for this outrage of realisation.

>>4391298
Also if you take a circle and measure marks in milimeters you will see another reason why base six was used.

>>4391298
>there are also roughly 360 degrees in a circles angle.
Based on what, though? Who decided that there are 360 degrees in a circle?

>>4391289
Who is this faggot? Is he a tripfag?

>>4391303
>>4391302
also babylonians loved the number six, its like the only ever episode of sesame street they got to watch so they liked it as a concept.

just had a thought, the devils number is 666
60 seconds 60 minutes 60 virgins being raped over a copy of heat magazine

>>4391303
Babylonians. I think it had to do with numbering system. The Babylonians were some of the greatest mathematicians of the Ancient world. They discovered the Pythagorean theorem, and developed an algorithm for calculating square roots before Greek civilization was even a thing.

>>why is there such a negative connotation to the word "nihilist", and why does it sound synonymous to the word "hedonist" in most contexts?


Have you ever seen the big lebowski?

>>4391330
No, I haven't -- why?

ok, this is why.

Take a circle divide it by 2 equal parts.
Now take a new circle and divide it by 3 equal parts.
repeat till you divide by 6.

Now look at the circles you have and turn them in ratios.

1/2
1/3
1/4
1/5
1/6

now look at number 1 to 6.

1 goes into 1 once.

1 goes into 2 twice.
2 goes into 2 once

1 goes into 3 three times
3 goes into 3 once

1 goes into 4 four times
2 goes into 4 twice
4 goes into 4 once

1 goes into 5 five times
5 goes into 5 once

1 goes into 6 six times
2 goes into 6 three times
3 goes into 6 twice
6 goes into 6 once

1 goes into 7 seven times
7 goes ino 7 twice

1 goes into 8 eight times
2 goes into 8 4 times or 4 goes into 8 twice
8 goes into 8 once

1 goes into 9 nine times
3 goes into nine 3 times
9 goes into 9 once

1 goes into 10 ten times
2 goes into 10 5 times, or 5 goes into 10 twice
10 goes into 10 once

now eliminate all those whos tally is less than 3 or less times.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7
leaving
6,8,9,10

then fuck yourself with a cucumber and do the milking dance of the lesser spotted cuntfacedop

>>4391379
I was following along until this step:
>then fuck yourself with a cucumber and do the milking dance of the lesser spotted cuntfacedop

>>4391383
Oh i thought you wouldnt.

Well continue on until 100.

If we used ten you would need 100 minutes in an hour, then 100 hours in a day. see how that would become an issue to even tell a person, how often a second would change that the normal human would struggle to count it.

If you go to low the opposite is true, to long between seconds and humans would again struggle to count.

Dividing it in a managable way was key, the the base 6 system works, not just for time, but for all sorts of cool maths.

In essence using base 6 allows you to express greater numbers in a more understandable form than base ten while also providing a necessary level of detail.

same with every other number you try, it just doesnt come out in a way that makes any sense.

you have to find a way of splitting the entire circle evenly, without going insane with numbers going to high

>>4391409
>Oh i thought you wouldnt.
Ouch.

I get it now -- so, basically, what you're saying is that the whole "base-60" system came from convenience?

>>4391409
that was muddled but basically if carry on to 100, you see the pattern repeated, that 60 80 90 and 100 are equally divisible, but become more difficult and time consuming to display.

then look at an actual clock, i dont mean digital.

see how its divided into 4 sections, then those sections are divided again, its all just maths based from charts and diagrams and measurements from nature man, so just like dont imagine the circle, be the circle.

>>4391417
>its all just maths based from charts and diagrams and measurements from nature man, so just like dont imagine the circle, be the circle.
Hahaha, I love you. Thanks once again!

>100 minutes in an hour 100 hours in a day
wrong
100 seconds in a minute, 100 minutes in an hour,

also
Time was invented by people as a necessary way to organize the day. Before calculators, all math was done by hand and it was best to use numbers that were easily divisible. 24 hours. 1/2 day 12 hours, 1/3 day 8 hours, 1/4 day 6 hours. 1/6 day 4 hours. 1/12 day 2 hours. The hour was decided to be 60 because 60 also has many common factors. 1/12 hour 5 min. 1/10 hour 6 min. 1/6 hour 10 min. 1/4 hour 15 min. 1/2 hour 30 min.

explains it better, each ratio is represented without the need for a decimal point

hes essentially saying that, but really this is what he means, 60 is the lowest number that divides into those fractions using only whole numbers.