/sci/ - Science & Math

>Seapunk?
>Sounds cool, how bad could it possibly b-
>Oh holy mother of god

>>4292311
2deep4u

Ocean exploration is a useless waste of time and money. Seriously, what do you expect to find? More fish?

Nobody wants to live in something that could drown them at a moments notice.

Sorry bro, all the good reasons in the world can't unscare people from the fear of drowning or being trapped underwater.

This is literally the worst thing

>>4292295

>I want to live in the sea so i can telepathically communicate with dolphins and learn their secrets of inter dimensional travel!!

http://www.etfriends.com/page2.html

>>4292328

>Nobody wants to live in something that could drown them at a moments notice.

It can't. Never once in the history of the 70 manned undersea stations has that ever happened, mainly because of the principles of ambient pressure habitats. The air pressure inside is slightly greater than outside and it is constantly being pumped in. If you poked a hole in the hull, bubbles would escape but unless it was a large hole no water would enter. And if it did, it would be a slow trickle that could literally be patched with gum (although they use silicone gel, the interior air pressure pushes it right into the crack/hole)

>Sorry bro, all the good reasons in the world can't unscare people from the fear of drowning or being trapped underwater.

For you. Not for me. It will never be for everyone, but it doesn't have to be.

>>4292316

>Ocean exploration is a useless waste of time and money. Seriously, what do you expect to find? More fish?

One of the more significant recent discoveries was a biologically immortal jellyfish that can reverse its own aging process to return to a juvenile state during famines.

>>4292359
The jellyfish mentioned by you is in no way related to underwater shelters or deep sea tourism. It can be obtained by simple methods of fishing and does not justify overexaggerated enthusiasm for economically infeasible planless "projects".

>>4292295

Pic related, but at this point any publicity is good publicity... right?

>>4292379

>The jellyfish mentioned by you is in no way related to underwater shelters or deep sea tourism.

I never said it was. Look back at your own post. You asked what we hope to find. I only intended to prove to you that there are medically significant species waiting to be found.

>It can be obtained by simple methods of fishing and does not justify overexaggerated enthusiasm for economically infeasible planless "projects".

You know why we have research submersibles, instead of simply fishing? Because of the pressure difference. The species we want to study cannot survive at surface pressure. It does tremendous damage to their tissues. In order to study a living specimen, even if you bring it up to a lab in a pressurized vessel, you need to go physically capture it in a submersible. So your claim that we could perform such science simply by fishing these organisms out of the sea is false.

>>4292379
Yes, Deborah Downer, but who knows what else could be lurking in the deep? And what those organisms could produce for science?

>>4292404

He's a pretty big troll, man. You're probably wasting time trying to talk to him like a person.

>>4292404
>>4292409
Fishing in the dark is not how SCIENCE works. First has to come the theory, then evidence and maybe, just maybe a prediction that makes it worth to invest money into research. Just "looking in the ocian, hurr durr, and hope we find something" is not SCIENCE but nonsense.

>>4292400

I dunno man. This is what it must have felt like for Anne Rice when Twilight got big.

And I have a feeling it will only get worse when Dark Life hits theaters, much as I am otherwise anticipating that movie suddenly everyone's gonna be all about deep sea exploration/colonies "and I always was, before it was cool". And the fucking aquamarine hair dye. That had better not catch on, it's the same fucking color as a urinal cake.

>>4292419

"Do not disown us, we are your followers!"

>>4292411
Stop calling me a troll, only because I disproved your bullshit several times by using SCIENCE.

>>4292428

>>4292430
You're using "SCIENCE", but you're not using science. See the difference? That's what's causing you to be called a troll.

>>4292419

Well, since you were in before it was cool, you can be some kind of Aquaman-hipster....

Why am I not surprised Google actually had a result for that.

>>4292445
SCIENCE is the only TRUTH. If you don't strongly believe in SCIENCE, you don't belong here.

>>4292423

>Just "looking in the ocian, hurr durr, and hope we find something" is not SCIENCE but nonsense.

Then how much greater nonsense would it be to blindly fish from the surface, rather than to physically go and locate what we're looking for? It's the difference between opening a car door from inside versus trying to unlock it via a bent coat hanger through the narrow gap in the window.

And the fact remains that we can neither study living specimens nor even dead ones that have not turned to mangled mush unless we go to where they live. Returning them to the surface, even if they are quickly transferred to a pressure pot afterward, will devastate them down to a cellular level. Naturalists were able to sketch gross anatomy but with the advent of the microscope and efforts to study these organisms at a smaller level the need arose to study them in an undamaged state. We need submersibles for that, and for any study longer than a few hours we need a habitat.

I believe I have made my case. I know you're trolling and don't mind it. I come here in part to share developments in this area with other enthusiasts but also to improve my ability to resist provocation.

If you're looking for me
You better check under the sea
Cause that is where you'll find me
Underneath the

Sealab, Underneath the water
Sealab, At the bottom of the sea

>>4292448

I'd love to see aquapunk done right but Bioshock pretty much already did it. And the same genre in the modern era would just be something like the concept art for Epcot's Seabase Alpha (pic related). The concept's out there, look at Sea Quest, and the upcoming Dark Life movie. It's just nobody ever felt the need to add 'punk' to it.

>>4292423
You are so stupid. Since when have scientific discoveries been made exclusively when looking for them?

>>4292453
I am definitely not trolling. (Why should I? I am a SCIENTIST.)
Did I understand you correctly, that according to your logic it would be also okay to perform random medical experiments on humans, just because there might be a slight chance of discovering something new? Or it would be okay to invest billions of dollars into philosophical research, just because maybe maybe we finally find the meaning of life this way?

>>4292449
>>4292430
>>4292423
>>4292379
>>4292316

Report this idiot, please.

>>4292466
No u. How can one be so retarded to assume a scientific discovey has ever happened without someone looking for it?

>>4292459

....You know, there was a time when the pop culture references bothered me. Recently I saw a comment on an article about Aquarius that was simply a copied and pasted speech from Bioshock. And the reply to that comment was "Haha! Bioshock!"

It's like the scene in Idiocracy where Joe is struck in the balls and doubles over in pain. President Camacho laughs and says "That shit is just like how it happened in the TV show!" (In the movie, there's a popular television program "ow my balls" loosely based on the actual web series "kicked in the nuts".)

People fucking love pop culture references though, and you can't swim against a powerful current, so I've learned to embrace it. That association between a popular television fantasy and an actual program can only help it as people feel motivated to see that fantasy represented in reality. Science fiction has a similar effect in securing popular support for manned space exploration and it'll do the same for the ocean.

>>4292471
Reporting me? For poasting SCIENCE? This is the science board, right?

>>4292478

And yes I am aware of the irony that I used a pop culture reference in order to explain why pop culture references aggravate me.

>>4292478

>> you can't swim against a powerful current

Was that intentional or accidental?

>>4292478
>>4292483
Ahhh, but you see, this particular pop culture reference is a direct link to "seapunk" culture, it was purely on topic.

>>4292484

I don't follow. It was just a metaphor. You can't singlehandedly oppose and reverse a popular trend, people turn against you, it's better to go with it and try to steer it in a productive direction. Like this seapunk bullshit.

http://mishkanyc.com/bloglin/2011/09/17/coral-records-and-the-seapunk-movement/

>"To coincide with the strong conceptual element behind the liquid sounds sampled throughout certain key #seapunk tracks, there is a fully realized visual styling to those who identify with the lifestyle. Name checking the old television show “seaquest dsv“, the movie “Water World” (duh), the Sega Genesis video game “Ecco the Dolphin” and various anime’s like “Ponyo“, #seapunk is a sort of cyber punk meets futuristic Mad-Max on water attitude meant for those who can surf the gnarliest swells of the world wide wave. #Seapunks can be spotted around in bright outfits of green, purple, ultra violet, and sea foam blue, wearing water socks, sporting shell necklaces, hawaiian floral print shirts, and the trade mark look of a true seapunk, dyed aquamarine hair."

Back in my day we just called that 'Californian'.

http://www.mixcloud.com/fireforeffect/seapunk-mix-volume-2-deepseapunkquest/

Well they look like faggots, but the music isn't half bad.

Guys what if we anger the sea gods?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quacker_%28sound%29

>>4292496
I think he was referring to your use of an ocean based metaphor.

Btw the article author didn't do his homework; There are four such habitats in the US, three being used for science. They are just typically...somewhat less modern and well equipped than Aquarius. Pic related, Marinelab. It's about the size of a typical dorm. Mercifully it has a lower level, which is a spherical glass cupola.

>>4292514

Actually yeah, I clicked wanting to hate it and it's nothing special for the first minute but I am getting into it now.

I am pretty sure this isn't a unique genre though I have heard plenty like it before. Perhaps I'll run it by /mu/ and see what they think.

>>4292524

Yes, that.

It's not much but it is the only such panoramic cupola on any undersea lab past or present. It was installed as a longterm durability test for a class of deep sea submersibles using the same spherical cockpit that came to be known as the Deep Rovers.

Must be nice to have a seat there as if it's your front porch, sipping cocoa and watching the undersea world go by.

>>4292526
>fishtank
So meta

>>4292537

It was unintended. I guess that sort of thing does slip into your vocabulary over time when you focus on one thing to the exclusion of all others.

Pic: Baylab. Extremely ghetto, but still in operation in Chesapeake Bay. Uses a very unique low power life support system that can run for several days without a surface buoy on battery power. In fact the entire thing is battery powered and must be recharged by a supply boat periodically. The upside is it's extremely independent from shore and does not have the ongoing expense of gasoline generators like Aquarius does.

>>4292544
What's the one you're going on, or is that still under construction?

>>4292553

Now, what you do is you put one of my hamster habitats inside the fish bowl. It'd be like a Russian doll.

>>4292557

This guy, the Leviathan. It's really just two New Worlds Explorer habs, docked end to end. The first modular habitat system ever used. Still very cramped, interior vertical room is 6 feet and I am 6'1". I will have to stoop. :I

On the upside there will be a crude ambient pressure submersible that docks to the unused port on the side (almost a first; Hydrolab did this, but only once) so that I'll be able to transport supplies without a dry case.

Horry Shit, Mad, you're back. Only good /sci/ tripfag.

Here's the basis for the NWE, the original SCAS prototype back in 1998. It was bigger on the inside than it looks, somehow they crammed two rooms into that thing (a wet room with shower and toilet, and a main cabin with two swivel chairs and a desk).

The NWE uses the same parts and basic design but it's twice as long, permitting the inclusion of a full sized bed, microwave and other amenities. I am still too tall for it. :I

But what about space?

>>4292588

What about it? We can do both.

>>4292601
No, we can't. We cannot even do one of them, because both are economical failures.

>>4292604

>No, we can't. We cannot even do one of them, because both are economical failures.

But, currently we are doing both. The Aquarius operates on just 3 million per year. Not billion, million. And the ISS is still in use. While granted, the ISS has no commercial use, there's an ongoing industrial expansion into the sea precisely because it *is * profitable. Siemens builds transformer stations underwater, FlexBlue is putting nuclear reactors underwater, Kona Blue is fish farming in the open ocean, Nautilus and Neptune Minerals are now mining hydrothermal vents for precious metals, Petrobarras of Brazil is testing fully submersible ocean bottom oil rigs, and the Chinese government has declared intentions to mine the South Indian Ridge for rare earths.

To say that it has no commercial purpose is foolish, that's the entire reason it's plowing ahead while space exploration stagnates, the short term profits are there with oceanic resource extraction, but not with asteroid mining or any other similar scheme.

>>4292558
Can the hamhab have an ant farm?

I'm fairly sure Carl Sagan is Angry Simian guy with a trip.

Also, I don't see how water-based hipsters are worse then the ones we have now.

>>4292647

>Also, I don't see how water-based hipsters are worse then the ones we have now.

Because, now they are fagging up something I care about. :I

I'll get over it. If somehow this means more money for ocean exploration. If not, I will ensure that they all come to live with me in the ocean. But no habitat for them.

>>4292651

Just be glad for the publicity. If people start giving a shit about exploring the ocean it doesn't really matter why. It would be far worse if nobody cared.

what would a nuclear plant look like underwater anyway?

>>4292678

>what would a nuclear plant look like underwater anyway?

A lot like a submarine, since that's basically what they are; French navy subs, minus everything except the reactor, life support and hull. That way they can build them in existing facilities from existing, standardized components. This is made possible as the French Navy is deeply involved with FlexBlue and providing the funding.

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/flexblue-an-offshore-nuclear-reactor-as-electricity-alternative/

It makes more sense than it seems to at first glance. The underwater environment supplies equal and opposite pressure to push against the outside of the steam pressure vessel which on land would be straining under a huge inside/outside pressure differential. There's also the fact that it's immersed in collant and the entire outside metal skin can be used as a heat exchanger. The netting prevents crude depth charges from getting close enough to cause damage, the difficulty for terrorists trying to locate and reach them exceeds nuclear plants on land (especially since they are beyond the range of Scuba equipment except on mixed gases) and finally the docking collar is proprietary and secret such that only custom submersibles will be able to gain entry for maintinence personnel.

>>4292514
I've been listening to this for a while now. And It doesn't sound like punk to me.

>>4292738

I don't think it's literal punk. It's like how they affix "punk" to the end of random words for every new subculture like cyberpunk, steampunk and whatnot.

>>4293415
oh that makes sense. In that case the sealab opening wasn't very related.

>>4292647
I don't think so. He left, I didn't see one use of "99.999999999999%" and, most importantly, Sagan only capitalized SCIENCE.

>>4292568

There's a few good ones, look in the putnam question threads. It's just, they don't post very often. Generally there's a correlation between how much you post and how shit you post.

seapunk looks like people from a mid to late 90's pop music video

>>4292502
Reminds me of that arc of Metalpocalypse about them making an album for fish because they don't have anything to listen to in the ocean.

Aw sweet, a Mad Sci thread.

Where the hell have you been?

atheiststrugglingtocometotermswiththefactthathislifeismeaninglessregardlessifhegoesoutsideearth'satm
osphereortothebottomoftheocean.txt

I can't wait to live amongst out octopi bros.

After being constantly bothered by shitheads of all kinds for most of my life with their unending, inane bullshit, I'd love to have some sea-dwelling where I could go for my research/learning etc.

One day...

>It can't. Never once in the history of the 70 manned undersea stations has that ever happened, mainly because of the principles of ambient pressure habitats.

Actually there have been a number of deaths related to underwater habitats, mostly diving related. However, In one case several people were killed inside a positive pressure habitat during an explosive decompression.

Hey, seabros! Your stupid fucking sea colony of microscopic size needs THREE FUCKING MILLION DOLLARS each year. Your sea civilization is FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO CREATE. It's too expensive and dangerous.

>>4293698
3 mil a year isn't really that much.

>>4293687

Whoops it was actually an underwater decompression chamber not habitat, similar though.

>Diver D4 was shot out through the small jammed hatch door opening and was torn to pieces

No thanks.

>>4293704
>>4293687
y u no brave?

I mean, if you're ripped to shreds, it's not like it will take long...

>>4293706

im kinda sure it would hurt to get your whole body sucked through one of these.

>>4293542

>Aw sweet, a Mad Sci thread. Where the hell have you been?

Training for MDRS. I've had to go vegan in order to acclimate my body, as I'll be eating only spirulina algae tablets and vitamin C supplements throughout.

>Actually there have been a number of deaths related to underwater habitats, mostly diving related. However, In one case several people were killed inside a positive pressure habitat during an explosive decompression.

Yes, the Byford Dolphin incident. However none of what you mentioned involved a habitat leaking, filling with water and drowning the occupants, which was what he was talking about and what I said had never happened, and that remains true.

>>4293698

Those millions don't go into overhead operational costs as much as the salaries of the scientists and dive specialists involved. The bulk of the cost of operating Aquarius is in the gasoline that it requires for the generators and air compressors on the life support buoy andthe sodasorb CO2 absorbing powder. A sustainable solution that does not require constant purchase of additional fuel and absorbant has long since been developed.

>>4293498

>seapunk looks like people from a mid to late 90's pop music video

They look like they escaped from the cover of a Lisa Frank Trapper Keeper.

>>4293810

sound pretty awesome Mad Scientist, I would love to live in one of those habitats one day.

>>4293810
>A sustainable solution that does not require constant purchase of additional fuel and absorbant has long since been developed.

Need moar info - plz provide moar info kthx?

>>4292419

Seapunk has nothing to do with interest in the deep sea, those people couldn't give a shit about the ocean. It's just the latest in retarded hipster bullshit.

>>4293835

>sound pretty awesome Mad Scientist, I would love to live in one of those habitats one day.

You can. The blue frontier is open to everyone.

http://underseacolony.com/core/participate.php

>>4293876

>Need moar info - plz provide moar info kthx?

Reusable low cost CO2 absorbant: http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2011/09/edible-carbon-dioxide-sponge.html

Low power consumption, compact seawater oxygen extractor:
http://www.likeafish.biz/

The latter may or may not be used; It's not strictly necessary as the colony will be situated very close to an enormous hydroelectric turbine being installed in the gulf stream by a separate company, providing ample power for life support using simple proven submersible compressor buoys.

Both of these eliminate ongoing purchase of formerly disposable CO2 absorbant as well as fuel, and with them the primary overhead expense of running an undersea habitat.

>>4293905

If any of that tech is real it's a bigger deal for deep research subs like Alvin than anything else. Being able to empty the CO2 out of the sodasorb and then reuse it would eliminate a significant chunk of the mission expense.

Having done minimal googling it looks like the discovery of this absorbant formula is too new for it to have been put into use yet, but you also seem to have an equally cheap alternative lined up. Some info about who makes that tidal turbine would be nice.

>>4293905

I have to buy a membership before I can see what jobs are available (levels of participation).

What can I do for them with a masters in physics?

I can probably do some programming for them, anything else?

>>4293966

>I can probably do some programming for them, anything else?

Strictly speaking provided you have steady employment and can pay your rent (expected to be around $1097 monthly) you don't need to be of any particular use in terms of maintaining the colony, there will be full time employees for that.

That's assuming you wanted to become a permanent colonist. If you just want to be a contributing member, yes we could use programmers, although mainly for sorting out the kinks in the new site and getting all the old features back online with the new look.

If all you really want is a personal, private undersea habitat, following the 2013 mission New Worlds Explorer habitats will be made available for purchase somewhere in the ballpark of $35,000 to $50,000. They are roughly the size of a dorm, contain a full sized bed, microwave, minifridge, separate wet room with toilet and shower, and can be towed and deployed exactly like a boat.

>Diver D4 was shot out through the small jammed hatch door opening and was torn to pieces. Subsequent investigation by forensic pathologists determined D4, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient, violently exploded due to the rapid and massive expansion of internal gases. All of his thoracic and abdominal organs, and even his thoracic spine were ejected, as were all of his limbs. Simultaneously, his remains were expelled through the narrow trunk opening left by the jammed chamber door, less than 60 centimetres (24 in) in diameter. Fragments of his body were found scattered about the rig. One part was even found lying on the rig's derrick, 10 metres (30 ft) directly above the chambers. His death was most likely instantaneous and painless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin

This is why its a bad idea.

The worst thing is I thought Seapunk was a troll genre made by /mu/, so disappointed in humanity.

>>4293975

>This is why its a bad idea.

The Byford Dolphin incident involved a decompression chamber. The permanent civilian colony will be 1atm, not ambient pressure. As a result, nobody inside will ever saturate with nitrogen and no decompression chamber will be needed.

The NWE habitats are ambient pressure, but they are intended for use in water 25 feet deep such that the depth of the hatch is 21 feet and the internal air pressure is only 1.6 atmospheres. Extensive studies have shown that you can be exposed to this pressure for any amount of time and return safely to the surface without decompression.

>>4293979

That looks unbearably cramped. It's hard to tell how big it is without a human next to it for scale though, maybe I'm wrong.

>>4293993

They are larger inside than they look from the renders. This is the 1998 prototype, the NWE uses the same design but the body of the capsule is twice as long to fit the extra amenities in there.

Both the prototype and the NWE have a little viewing dome up top you can stick your head up into. It has nothing on the glass bubble cupola on Marinelab but it gives you a way to check on your life support buoy and look for incoming divers without going outside.

>>4293999
>>4294001

This is all I want. A cozy little underwater pod I can chill in and get away from the shitheads of the world. Just relaxing and getting comfy looking up at the wavy surface as raindrops hit it.

Looks like I'm gonna start setting aside money for one of these. Now to figure out where I can legally put it.

>>4294007
doesnt matter where, what are they gonna do, send a sub to torpedo you?

>>4294010

Well, I don't live near the coast and I'd want to put it in a lake. But I assume there are laws about what you can put in lakes these days and the cops would show up after a while if I just plunked a habitat on the bottom without getting any permits.

>>4293974

But how can I have steady employment if I live under water? How will I go to work? Wouldn't it be a hassle?

>>4294054

>But how can I have steady employment if I live under water? How will I go to work? Wouldn't it be a hassle?

There's a daily boat service to and from shore. It's only 4 miles. If you can't find work near the coast, you can telecommute. There will be highspeed internet via colony to shore microwave.

>>4293701
> 3 mil a year isn't really that much.

Keep reaching, fuckbrain. It's far too much to use as a basis to form an entire society. Seabros are DOLTS who refuse to acknowledge their proposals assume a SOCIETY COMPOSED OF MILLIONAIRES.

>>4294054
> But how can I have steady employment if I live under water?

That doesn't matter, since you'll never live underwater. There's no shortage of usable living space on LAND, and that's where Humanity will REMAIN.

>>4296105

Already addressed this here: >>4293905

The bulk of the annual cost of Aquarius is paying the salaraies of the scientists and dive specialists involved, as well as fuel and CO2 absorbant. It's not as if they need to keep re-buying the structure itself every year. Once you cover the expense of building it, that's it, it's paid for, one time cost. The rest is just consumables.

And as you'll read in the post I linked to, those consumables have been eliminated by way of new, energy efficient, low cost technology. As a consequence individual residential cylinders will run $150,000 and personal ambient pressure habitats will run $35,000. The first is cheaper than most houses on land and the latter is cheaper than most new cars.

>>4296128

How do you get in the cylinders? Is there an airlock? (waterlock?)