/sci/ - Science & Math

o lawdy

we all gon die

nukes

lots and lots of nukes

hundreds of years into the future, people will look back upon our age when people could breed as they pleased and humanity counted over 7 billion people... And they'll just shake their heads and say "the Great Plague was bound to happen"

Phage therapy. Herbal medicines. etc.

No new class of antibiotics have come out for the past 30 years so I'm not surprised.

>>4235332

Can't say I disagree with you.

[source is obviously wolfram]

I work with an Indian woman

S-Should I.. kill her?

>>4235357

Economy of Asia
During 2008 unless otherwise stated
Population 4 billion (60% of the world)
GDP Currency: US$18.515 trillion (2010)
PPP: US$24.077 trillion (2010)

Economy of Europe
During 2003 unless otherwise stated
Population 731,000,000 (11% of the World)
GDP Currency: US$19.920 trillion (2010)[1] (32.4% of the world)
PPP: US$18.140 trillion, €15.000 trillion (2009)

Economy of North America
During 2003 unless otherwise stated
Population 528,720,588 (8%)
GDP PPP: US$16.981 trillion (2009)

Asia is the bigger economy by far.

>2012
>not believing the mayans were right
>ishygddt.jpg

>>4235332

Fucked up by not cropping the whole thing, just go here:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Asia+population%2C+North+America%2BEurope+population

Asia really needs to get it's shit together.

>>4235367
I lol'd.

>>4235374

Also, it's probably a coverup of a bioweapons leakage. India probably has an extensive bioweapons project.

Pharmacist here

Strain resistant TB has been known about for years

Nothing new here folks

Move along

Move along

>>4235367

unless you want TBC, do it faggit

>>4235393

That should make it more of a cause of concern.

It's OK as long as those who died actually stay dead... I say we nuke it. They payload is deteriorating as we speak anyway.

But if I am to put my serious hat on, even if it got pandemic it probably wouldn't kill us _all_ as we are all well-fed, fairly healthy and have high hygiene standards. (Ok, at least most of us, I'm not talking about /b/tards with piss bottles.)
But it would teach us a lesson about abusing antibiotics. Or, if not, the western world would teach India (and China!) a lesson about abusing antibiotics.

>>4235393
Strain resistant has been known for years. But a total drug resistant one is some new and scary shit. Carpet nuking India? Knowing the history of tuberculosis unless you are an Ashkenazim Jew with a single Tay Sachs gene you're fucked.

>>4235404

No, it really shouldn't.

We've had cases in the US before.

It's simply quarantine procedure and public alerts.

Granted 12 cases is a very large number, if handled properly it won't turn into an epidemic.

I have to wonder what the metabolic load of maintaining that much fucking resistance is on this strain. Hopefully outside of hospital conditions it's unfit as fuck.

>>4235412

Strain resistant IS drug resistant, you derp

>>4235422
> if some shithole like India handles it properly
what fucking fantasy world do you live in?

>>4235387

>>4235429
Yes to some of the three antibiotics given simultaneously to cure tuberculosis. Herp derp one drug equals 3 am i rite. Never have I heard of a strain that is resistant to all three at the same time.

>>4235422
>Granted 12 cases is a very large number, if handled properly it won't turn into an epidemic.

>handled properly
>India
Pick one.

So it's going to be epidemic?
>mfw I'm in India atm, coming back home soon
>mfw I will be the one to bring this to west

>>4235443

You're talking out your ass now

>>4235422

>It's simply quarantine procedure and public alerts.

No, no it isn't. The treatment and prognosis of MDR-TB are much more akin to that for cancer than to that for infection. It has a mortality rate of up to 80% depending on how many drugs the bacteria is resistant to. In this case, the bacteria is resistant to all drugs.

There really is no treatment option. Getting infected with this shit is basically a death sentence.

When people with active pulmonary TB cough, sneeze, speak, sing, or spit, they expel infectious aerosol droplets 0.5 to 5 µm in diameter. A single sneeze can release up to 40,000 droplets.[30] Each one of these droplets may transmit the disease, since the infectious dose of tuberculosis is very low and inhaling fewer than ten bacteria may cause an infection.

>>4235446
> >mfw I'm in India atm, coming back home soon

Ha, you wish. Enjoy your quarantine. And a possible bullet to the brain.

>>4235449
As a grad med student in the last year. Sure I'm the one talking out of his ass.

>>4235438
Isn't it? I never understood what's bad about this.

So any news from Madagascar?

>>4235457

Pics, didn't happen, etc.

>>4235463
They've surely shut down their only port.

That...one....fucking....port.

>>4235463
No. Nothing comes in or out.

>>4235453

Cool Wiki citing bro. Now, come join us in reality, in that there's only so much that can be done, and likely is.

>>4235463
Someone from indian origin is living in Madagascar. Naturally the Madagascar government took swift action and shut down everything.

>>4235466
Same goes for the "pharmacologist".

>>4235374
The US and Europe more or less fund the Asian markets. GDP data isn't exactly a valid comparison.

I know jack shit about this. How has antibiotics been abused and why are you all acting as though no cure can be devised for this new strain?

Well I feel pretty darn safe up in the north of Sweden at least.

>>4235461
All we need is to get our heads out of our asses and replace oil.

>>4235474

We used to be able to treat TB with antibiotics. The standard "short" course treatment for TB is isoniazid, rifampicin (also known as rifampin in the United States), pyrazinamide, and ethambutol for two months, then isoniazid and rifampicin alone for a further four months. The patient is considered cured at six months (although there is still a relapse rate of 2 to 3%). For latent tuberculosis, the standard treatment is six to nine months of isoniazid alone.

With antibiotic-resistant TB, we no longer have these treatments. Essentially the patient will just have to wait for his death.

Do you know what life was like before the advent of antibiotics? If not, then you might get to experience it pretty soon.

>>4235374
And when you look at population you realize that Asians are highly inneffective
They need four times the population to produce LESS gdp than Europe
And don't even mention the uneven distribution of that wealth or your head will explode

And I hope that you counted Russia as an European state or did you just EU

>>4235495
>how has antibiotics been abused

My understanding of what they think happened in India is that a doctor would prescribe medicine A, for X number of weeks.

That person would then go to another doctor, get some medicine B for Y amount of weeks and just take the medicine until they "felt better"

>>4235495
Because we have been trying to develop new antibiotics for TBC for couple of decades and failing hard at the same time.

And bacteriophages are unlikely to work because this sucker goes inside your cells.

>Cuba Closes it's borders.

FUCK

>>4235499

Thanks for putting on a trip so I could block you.

They shouldnt be called trips, they should be called idiot removers.

God I love them.

>>4235505

Population is irrelevant. Only GDP matters.

Russia is not a part of Europe, but Asia.

>>4235512

Looks like someone's upset. Allow me to massage your buttocks.

>>4235507
But wait, aren't you supposed to treat TB with several antibiotics to avoid resistance?

>captcha: epidemic win

>>4235510

Phages can go inside your cells too.

>>4235512
Let me say this instead of the tripfag. You are a complete and absolute moron that makes me want to start an eugenics program tailor made just for your stupid ass.

>>4235527
Source plz.

POssible ends:
>Best End: TDB gets cured.
>Good End: TDB gets contained and purged.
>Bad End: TDB dies out along with local populations.
>Worst End: Only survivors with lucky biologies remain.

>>4235542
Isn't it possible that this TB only affects like every other person? I don't know, but I read around here I think that a virus which kills too much is a shitty virus and all that.. (TB is a virus, right?)

>india
>12 documented cases

...how long is the incubation period for Tuberculosis?
I am afraid the number is skyrocketing as we speak

>>4235571
Nope, TB is a bacteria.

>>4235540

www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA405325

>>4235511

>>4235571

Bacteria...you could've easily found that out by googling it even though it's common knowledge

>>4235542
> 2012
> considering living in a post-apocalyptic society the "worst end"

>>4235527

Biochemist here.

As the tripster has said,
chemotherapy is the option for treatment for
cases of TDR-TB, not ideal, due to cost and
inherent risk, but hardly the end of life as we know it.

>>4235583
>even though it's common knowledge
>implying it's common knowledge to know shit about random third world deseases.

>>4235594

Shit, I forgot how no one in the first world knows jack shit other than the specs of their next sports car.

>>4235321
Just go to Madagascar.

>>4235594

/sci/ is not for you.

Try >>>/sp/

>>4235579
Thank you very much for the article. But I see one difficulty and that is cell specificity. They had to add all sorts of rings and bells to make it work in one cell type, but tuberculosis hits almost any tissue type. And it can transmitted intestinaly or pulmonary, and the first infected symptoms are not apparent. When they do get apparent, TBC has affected quite a few different cell types that could be pool for reoccurring infections.

And all that on the premises we can make a bacteriophage that kills this bug.

Through natural selection, it'll eventually be converted into a mass of energy significant enough to reset the Universal Constant on a whim, this will in turn result in a cataclysmic implosion of Stars through-out the entirety of the Universe, causing a marginal increase in birth-rates globally (here on mother Terra), simultaneously increasing the likelihood of evolution via natural selection, which will result in the inevitable development of a super entity capable of forging an alternate reality where this pathogen does not exist.

>>4235594
>implying the english language is common knowledge
/b/ bro. Use it, and gtfo.

Good thing I'm on the secret Arc project.

>why are you talking about it if it's secret.

because no one will believe me.

>>4235633
Doubles agree.

>>4235593

Hmm scrub that, reports suggest that even second line chemo doesn't dent this bug.

>>4235610
No, I just know as much about some specific bacterium as you know about Statistical Quantum Mechanics

We could try to discover more antibiotics by sifting through the millions of herbs that we haven't yet tried.

>>4235321

I'm a physics major who's taking Quantum Mechanics this coming semester, suck my dick you lazy stupid asshole.

I once saw a troll proof for Pi = 3.
Anyone has it?
Would appreciate.

>>4235658
Link?

>>4235667
Meant to respond to this asshole

>>4235662

>>4235668
I'd love to see that

>surgically induce pneumothorax
>collapse lung
>starve the granuloma of oxygen
>defeat MDR-TB

>Thankfully, MDR-TB strains appear to be less fit and less transmissible. It has been known of many years that INH-resistant TB is less virulent in guinea pigs, and the epidemiological evidence is that MDR strains of TB do not dominate naturally.
Does that mean we could just infect victims with one of the regular strains of TB, wait for the TB to replace the MTB then use antibiotics?

>>4235705
Unlikely TB would out-compete MTB entirely. You'd just have two colonies of bug.

>not rooting for the end of the world.

I want to play Fallout IRL damn it.

>>4235733
You'll be the one to die first

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis

educate yourselves people.
This is mainly a 3rd world problem. there have been other epedemics like this over years, flu ect ect. Humanity always survives.They'll develop treatments, and get over this.

I remember when swine flu came about people were having similar threads. Sorry neckbeards, your apocalypse fantasies are never going to come true. go back to playing fall out and jacking off over your waifus

>>4235668
>>4235675

pi = 4

EK provides

>>4235756

>The Boy Who Cried Wolf.jpg

>>4235756
>Humanity always survives.They'll develop treatments, and get over this.
>Humanity
>They
I knew it!

>>4235756
It's mainly a 3rd world problem because of their lack of access to antibiotics. Now that there's a resistant strain on the loose the developed nations and 3rd world are on an even playing field.

>>4235756
TB is a substantially larger problem than swine flu. With a lack of effective antibiotics against the multidrug resistant strains and increasing prevalence of HIV/AIDS it's set to overtake malaria as the dominant killer in sub-Saharan Africa and be a significant problem to the West as well.

It can't really be swept away with optimism for human ingenuity.

> Totally Drug-Resistant. In other words, it is untreatable as far as they know
> Drug-Resistant...
> as far as they know...

Nice. They didn't explain what they did. Let's try again, with ALL resources, eh?

LOL UK is fucked, their entire country is just these fuckers, especially their convenience stores (3 on every street).

>>4235803
You realise that when one Indian national gets MDR-TB the whole lot don't, right?

Here's what you do. NUKE INDIA.

It's a literal shithole anyways.

>>4235812
LOL YOU IDIOT. If one Indian, anywhere in the world, get anything - it transmits through the space and time, and through multiple dimensions to infect all Indians.

>NUKE
>NUKE
>nuke
>NUKE

Violent simians are on loose again.

>>4235781
Homeopathy will defeat it.

>>4235822
How about we nuke all research labs + hospitals instead?

>Kills less people
>TDR-Tuberculosis is never heard of again

>>4235848

>it infects everybody because there's no way to stop it

>>4235858
>only way is to kill yourself before it kills you

>>4235858
Oh come on

have they tried colloidal silver

>>4235863
>imokaywiththis.jpg

>1. Keep your immune system healthy: a healthy immune system can help fight off an initial TB infection or keep an existing TB infection latent.
>2. Get tested regularly, especially if you have risk factors for TB such as frequent travel to countries with high TB rates, a compromised immune
>    system, or a job as a health care worker.
>3. If you have latent TB, consider taking preventative therapy (isoniazid) to avoid an active TB infection in the future.
>4. Finish your entire course of medication. Whether you are being treated for latent or active TB it is critical to complete your course of antibiotics
>    and take them in the manner prescribed by your doctor. Not doing so can create drug resistant TB.
>5. A vaccine called BCG is available and can help prevent TB in children, but it is not widely available in the United States and may have limited
>    effectiveness in developed countries.

>>4235871
>>>/lit/

>>4235938

>>>/lit/2312822

>>>/sci/

I'm really surprised by how many /sci/ users played Pandemic.

Here's a link for anyone interested: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/448950

>>4235871

Yeah, right after exorcism accupuncture..

>>4235593

chemotherapy would be impossible in a widescale outbreak

the risk is the disease would spread faster than our ability to treat it, and eventually get to a point where the treatment would be debilitating even if it were possible

>>4236054

There's an "and" in there somewhere. Nonetheless.

Ultra-radical surgery and oxazolidinones are the last line of defence here. You'd probably have to be at deaths door to accept the inherent risks.

>>4236061

Technically bleomycins are classified under chemotherapy.

If this strain of tuberculosis can defeat Zeocin, well spank my ass and call me Susie. It's a rare, super unstable antibiotic that intercalates DNA. Natural resistance to it is almost unheard of, if not artificially induced.

fucking disgusting shit hole india, no surprise here, fucking filthy culture

>>4236212
>>4236212

well tdr-tb was virtually unheard of as well, until recently. that said, even if zeocin is effective, could it be manufactured in quantities sufficient and quickly enough to stem an epidemic? and even if it could, what would the biological/social costs be of such a treatment?

in other words, theory is one thing; is it realistic?

Nothing a little Gerson therapy can't fix.

Better get on it before it spreads, though

>>4236246
I've heard rumors that Indians do not wipe after shitting, ever.

>>4236278

>could it be manufactured in quantities sufficient

Well bleomycins as a whole could be. Zeocin is trademarked and was once expensive as all hell. The price per amount has recently dropped significantly though.

>what would the biological/social costs be of such a treatment

I can't see any social costs but it would be similar to receiving chemo. The compounds don't differentiate between human and bacterial genomes.

Better than death by TB though. Although I'm suspect of news from India that states they've discovered a new strain of TB resistant to ALL antibiotics.

When a researcher/medical professional from a country with proper resources says it exists and publishes on it, I'll consider it a problem.

>>4236325
>>4236325

by then it may be too late; technocratic science is more often than not reactionary

>>4236331

That's extremely doubtful.

It's been around for at least two to three years according to that report.

Might as well be worried about Lassa fever too. It's like Ebola but far more common

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lassa_fever

>>4236359
>>4236359

well, hard to say on duration and timing, but if you think science has the ability to keep up with disease then you haven't studied much history

inb4 this time it's different. nope. our systems have globalised and transmission accelerated right along with our techniques/science

>>4235321
med student here. As cold as it sounds. Quarantine the patients, give best possible treatment.
When they die sterilize the room. Mycobacterium sp dies really easily outside a host and is very susceptible to chemical agents

>>4236384

There are scares like this constantly. Almost every year there are media reports of the NEXT GREAT PANDEMIC! DOOM! END OF THE WORLD!

And nothing comes of it. Because we have kept up with disease. SARS, swine flu, and bird flu being recent cases.

>our systems have globalised and transmission accelerated right along with our techniques/science

As have our abilities to communicate, quarantine, and treat. The fact that you've even heard of this strain of TB is because it is being monitored closely.

>>4235367
Yes. You have to act now or it will hydrogenise her neurological functionality and persuasively dissasociate her from preventative action for debilitating you with the strain her species helds

>>4236498
Source: Zoology degree and 12,000 posts

don't worry, at least madagascar is safe

>>4236475
You do realize that every single one of them was a virus in the previous pandemic. It was either and infectious virus or there wasn't one.

Here is tuberculosis. You have a total resistance one, medium drug resistant or drug susceptible. So which one does the patient have? And only 10 microbes are an infectious dose. So when you diagnose him you have to quarantine everyone he has been in contact with. But you cannot afford to do that due to the widespread of tuberculosis. And swine flue, SARS and bird flue is far from being deadly, while this stuff, given time, will kill you for sure.

>>4236306
I've heard rumors that British do not take baths or showers, ever.

>>4236500

>biology

Why haven't the nano people built nano soldiers to fight these bugs yet?

Useless practice.

>>4238657
Physicists can't decide if they are going to behave quantomly or classically. You can't build shit, if you can't plan how to build them.

Disregard antibiotics, acquire bacteriophages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

>>4235463
>>4235468
>>4235511
See what you did there