/sci/ - Science & Math

dolphin humor is really funny. Smart fuckers.

We take the war to their turf. Never forget the rape caves.

hey, elephants are self-aware too

>>4229751

But no other species is as close to us in intelligence as dolphins. Not even chimps, our closest living relative.

Do they get reparations or what? Do we let them vote on issues of oceanic conservation?

>>4229759
but that's stupid
it is stated in the bible that we should dominate all other creatures
none should be our equal in this world

>>4229765

>Bible

My good man, surely you jest.

I say we fuck 'em.

>>4229787
literally or figuratively? Because dolphin vaginas have muscles that would put any human woman to shame, just saying.

>>4229787

Go to bed, Carl

>>4229787
>implying it is not them who will fuck us

/r/ dolphin vagina

>>4229789

Go to bed Johnny.

>>4229789

I mean as revenge for their constant gangrape of swimmers.

>>4229787
Its already a common practice.

>>4229759
Why would we help them? What have they ever done for us? Maybe if they had thumbs...

/r/ing dolphin-human sex copypasta.

>>4229796
Well maybe they did it because asians keep hunting them.

>swimming around in my environment
>suddenly unknown object
>ohh shit, better poke this nigger full of holes since no telling of what he's capable of

Seems pretty human to me.

>>4229807

why yes, you're absolutely right. Everyone should agree with you, they would be stupid otherwise.

>>4229731
>What happens when they find out about the Japanese?
Nothing, they can't do shit.

>>4229825
You're a twat, its a legitimate question - why help them?

lol this brings back memories. /sci/ once posted this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7QbBm1ZIq0

it's not the original, but same footage. This lead to me having a fetish where a girl has sex with a dolphin. Then /sci/ wanted to know if it were possible, if the dolphin penis might be too big. So, I calculated the proportions and found the average dolphin penis is about ~8 inches.

>pic related, my penis analyzing graph

>>4229834

They are fellow sentient beings. And the only other species on our level that lives on this planet. They're a little dumb by our standards but smart enough that with the same education humans get, they would not be noticeably any less functional or competent than anyone else. IQ of maybe 85-90. We've used them as soldiers since vietnam (pic related), it's time we recognized them as valid persons and gave something back.

>>4229866

>IQ of 85-90

>Speculation

>>4229878
Not the same poster, but not all speculation is created equal. Though there is no hard scientific evidence stating exactly what the average IQ of a dolphin is, 85-90 is a pretty good guess. That places them between gorillas and humans. They are clearly smart, and there IS a lot of hard scientific evidence to back that up. They are creative problem solvers, they can understand fairly complex concepts like, they have a good grasp of language, and they do things for personal pleasure with no evolutionary value.

>>4229936
[citation needed]

>>4229936
>no hard scientific evidence for average iq
>therefore an 85-90 iq range is a good guess

>>4229942
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhoLlu8D_g

>>4229952
Jesus christ, has aspie can you get? You must have an IQ of 65.

>>4229866
Sentient, far-fetched, but still acceptable.
Sapient, never.

>>4229955
>no reference to IQ in link
>ad hominem

0/10

>>4229956

Reality is not determined by what you, personally, consider plausible.

>>4229962
This statement also stands for you, sir.

>>4229961
>has no ability to understand and contemplate abstract concepts
>false accusation of ad hominem due to wrong understanding of the word

10/10 aspie.
>yfw

Other links for dolphin intelligence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJeIdVX0Nqg

(good one) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz3sQsTE5tA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XISCL7Yd0K0

(long, but thorough documentary) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH68iL5SL3g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awapPfbjEWI&feature=related

>>4229962
Actually, yes, considering the importance of the conscious observer in the quantum nature of reality.

>>4229970
disregard that last one, I didn't watch it before I posted it. It's just some faggoty slideshow.

>>4229967
>false accusation of ad hominem due to wrong understanding of the word
no
>is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic
>accuses of aspie

0/10

Please state why, using evidence, an 85-90 iq range is accurate for dolphins. You're the one claiming that we can objectify an abstract concept such as cetacean intelligence and compare it to human intelligence using IQ. It is you that does not have an understanding of the subjective nor the objective.

>>4229975
>no
Yes. http://plover.net/~bonds/adhominem.html

fucking aspie.

>Please state why, using evidence, an 85-90 iq range is accurate for dolphins.
No, I have posted more than enough evidence for my claim in the thread. Now learn to stop being an aspie faggot, actually look at it and attempt to use your faulty brain to comprehend it.

It is not my job to spoon feed you the evidence. Faggot.

>>4229978

>>4229975

If you're looking for that specific number you won't find it, so if you're clinging to that a sa technicality I concede. But if you are at all reasonable you can see from the evidence provided that it was a realistic estimate.

I think if dolphins didn't get stuck underwater we would truly appreciate how smart they are.

>>4229978

>Source that wasn't YouTube doesn't say 85-90 IQ

>Cite anecdotal evidence from YouTube

>2012

>>4230008
Dolphins = Horses who decided to evolve in the water

I wonder if Dolphins have emotions like REGRET? lol

>>4230010
>anecdotal evidence

Wow, you must be extra retarded. You constantly misuse and misunderstand terms. Please go fuck yourself with a rake. Fuck you.

>>4229978

He's right, you fucking retard.

You're throwing terms and comments around like you've done the scientific data yourself. You're not even bringing anything to the fucking table.

Making a claim so far fetched as yours needs evidence/hard proof. Otherwise, it's just assumption based and speculation. About three other people in this thread asked you to provide a citation or mocked you out right for even assuming this.

Fuck off. If anyone is the retard or aspie here, it's you. Deal with it.

>>4230010

He didn't only cite youtube, and the video was not created by youtube, only uploaded to it. Does a video description of a legitimate study become illegitimate when uploaded to youtube? That does not logically follow. Yoy seem like a powerfully unreasonable person.

How the fuck can IQ (an intelligence measure designed for humans, by humans with dubiousness around its accuracy anyway) be measured in dolphins?
Cetaceans don't communicate like us, nor is their social structure the same. Hell, the fact they live underwater and are shaped like fish is a barrier.

There needs to be other ways to measure this.

>>4229978
and then there's this faggot

>>4230024

How is it far fetched? The evidence supports it.

>>4230022

>Anecdotal: based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation. [dictionary.com]

>confirmed for autism

http://www.aquarium.gr.jp/friend/dolphin.html

I seriously hope you stop watching Discovery Channel/Animal Planet. That shit makes you dumb.

HUR DUR JUST BECAUSE ONE JAPANESE FISHING VILLAGE HAS A 500 YEAR OLD TRADITION OF HUNTING DOLPHINS/WHALES HUUUR

>What happens when dolphins find out OP is a dumb faget?

>>4230029

Actually they do communicate like us, that was the topic of one of the studies posted, and other easily googled studies confirm a similar social structure, with knowledge passed on culturally, family units and hunting/rape as recreation common among the younger males

>>4229787

I'm with this guy

>>4229975
>>4230010
>>4230024
>>4230031
>>4230039

Mod, please purge these fags

>>4230033

What EVIDENCE? You're comparing apples and oranges here.

I have viewed the documentary; in addition, I have read the article on Wiki. All I have read/listened to is that Dolphins are intelligent and have problem solving abilities. Cool, that's fine. Where does that correlate to an IQ between 85 and 90? Even the anon claimed earlier that he fucked up in making that guesstimate, but tried to save face by stating, 'well it's realistic guesstimate man!'

Face it; he fucked up and he's also trying to defend his fuck up. He just conceded earlier.

Extraordinary claims need the proper evidence. He can give his little 4chan 'theoretical' opinion on it, but that's about it.

Secondly,
>IQ is a test designed for human beings
>implying you can compare the test with a fucking dolphin.

>stupid person gets called out
>samefags a bunch of 'lolol i trollu' bullshit comments
>/sigh/ - Religion & Trolling

>>4230028

>Create video

>Make truth claims

>Don't provide citations

>Upload to YouTube

>Regardless nowhere in any video does it suggest dolphins have 85-90 IQ

>2012

>>4230042
1st Define communicate
2nd Define communication with humans
3rd Research food incentive

Then compare if dolphins really have intelligence, or just follow food commands for food like... a dog, a horse, a cow, or a sheep.

Associating an abstract action with food =/= holy shit

>>4230039
>blatant lying

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anecdotal+evidence

Main Entry: anecdotal evidence
Part of Speech: n
Definition: non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts
Example: This chapter provides anecdotal evidence from personal interviews, public hearings, and surveys.
Etymology: from the sense of anecdote 'unpublished narratives or details of history'

>>4230056

Ignore the video then, lots more evidence has been posted, you are focusing on the easiest to attack, and an estimated number nobosy ever claimed would be found in the studies even when the actual results suggest that general level of intelligence. This fixation on semantics and numbers is why people are accusing you of having aspergers syndrome.

>>4230042
So you're saying that there are no language or social barriers between humans and dolphins at all? That we can perfectly understand each other?

>>4230060

Wow. Do your homework. It is not just association of words with tricks or objects, it goes way beyond that. You seem like you believe you are fully up to date on this research but you are not.

>>4230063

>Idiot

>Anecdotal, not anecdotal evidence

>Definition in picture still proves you wrong

>No critical reading ability

>autism

>>4230069

No I didn't say that, you are misrepresenting me. You don't like it when people do this to you, why do you now do it to me?

My meaning was clear, and you understood it. Argue honestly from this point onward.

>>4230063

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anecdotal

He didn't lie.

>>4230065

Do you even into science?

A multitude of individuals in this thread have targeted this guy because that's a big fucking jump.
>Dolphins are intelligent.
Ok, that's cool. We can all agree on this
>They have an IQ between 85-90. Rough estimate.
Wh--what?

How do you not see this blatant travesty? This is not science at all. It's pure speculation. If he said, 'I have no evidence to fully support the following hypothesis, but I fervently believe they may have an IQ between 85 and 90,' no one would have a problem.

Secondly, he conceded earlier that he fucked up with the numbers and the claim overall. Get this through your head. The anon literally ADMITTED fucking up. You guys are defending him still.

>>4230076

In the exact post you quoted I acknowledged the number was an estimate. Did you misread it possibly? What are you even angry about? My objection was to your fixation only on the video to the exclusion of valid evidence, and to your deliberate misrepresentation of other peoples' arguments.

>>4230075
Just because there are similarities between cetacean and human behaviour, does not mean what can be measured in us can be measured in them.
Despite their clear intelligence, it's impossible to tell whether or not they think and communicate differently than us, even if they use the same mechanisms.

Chances are they don't, and using measurements standardized for humans on dolphins is quite frankly stupid.

>>4230087

You are not an expert and have no authority on the matter. Read the studies, one says explicitly that they do communicate the way we do, physiologically and (in other studies) in terms of syntax. That is authoritative, not your opinion.

>>4230084

I'm not angry about it. Secondly, this isn't the same Anon that you've been arguing with. That anon, I'm guessing, left the thread minutes ago. This is ANOTHER guy. Practically everything you wrote doesn't even apply to me, but to the other sagefag or Oxy.

For future reference, preface your opinions/personal hypotheses by stating, 'I've no evidence for this claim I am about to make, but I believe...' or some incarnation of it. Otherwise, /sci/ will hound you for it.

Unless dolphins make an underwater pyramid out of stones or start doing basic math in the sand


I really don't give a shit

>>4230108

You came across as very clearly angry. And I maintain that the evidence supports an intelligence in that general range, which is why I gave an estimated range and not a precise figure. I had no idea it would devolve into pages upon pages of sperglords obsessing over the fact that (obviously) those exact numbers don't appear in the studies.

>>4230102
There is more to communication than just the mechanisms used, subtleties and nuances for instance. The fact that we are not dolphins means that we cannot precisely understand what they are saying.

>>4230122

They demonstrated use of syntax, different word orders causing a sentence to have different meanings, and different meanings based on context. That is not a parlor trick.

>>4230127
I'm not saying it is. But just because we can recognize language does not mean we understand it.

>>4230135

Of course we understand it. In the study I referred to, the dolphins were speaking a language we invented for them. Meeting them halfway, as it were. But you didn't know that, did you?

>>4230142
Please provide a link to this study?

>>4230169

You'll just attack the credibility of whatever news site the article is on if I do that. Google "dolphins using shared language" and pick whatever source you consider credible.

>>4230184
That's quite an assumption to make, I only asked for a source because I'm busy right now and didn't want to have to sort through several irrelevant pages before I found the right one, but whatever.

>>4230211

But you did exactly that earlier in the thread, because the video was on Youtube. Was that not you? At any rate I had good reason to assume that's what would happen, given the tone of this thread.

Kill this thread, abandon completely, start over. Good topic, OP, but it got fagged up. Please repost another time when the faggots have left.

>>4230222
I wasn't in aspie debate, if that's what you mean, so I've basically ignored all that.

I read a couple of articles and I must say, I'm impressed. Although it seems an IQ test for dolphins is still far off.

>>4229866
>IQ of maybe 85-90

>>4230282

>doesn't know what 'maybe' means

>>4230301
>implying there's any reason to say 85-90 and not some other random range

>>4230308

Because that's the general range. Saying it's 0-15 would be obviously wrong.

"intelligence" is a term so vague as to be meaningless.
Tue Story: Larry worked as a cryptographer for the navy for many years.He speaks 13 languages "But only 7 of them well"
However, Larry calls a tow truck when he has a flat tire. When we had a team building thing at work where we had to make paper airplanes Larry couldn't make one. NOT ONE even after watching the rest of us for 45 minutes.
Larry is a linguistic genius and a mechanical retard. That make him an average person.

To sum up the asspie ddebate so you guys can shut the fuck up about it:

Some argue (correctly, imho) that I.Q is a measure that doesn't even make sense when applied to dolphins.
Others argue that it is, and that given that, the abilities dolphins display put them roughly at 80 - 90 range.

The contentions here are really simple and could be solved in a matter of minutes if either side were interested in providing evidence instead of insulting each other.

>>4230388

More like, IQ doesn't apply to dolphins, but they exhibit an apparent intelligence equivalent to that of a human in the 85-90 range. Surely this summation satisfies everyone?

>>4230282
>>4229866
then why haven't they formed societies and crafted tools??

>>4230344
Knowledge isn't the same as intelligence.
He's good linguistically because all he had to do was memorize and internalize words and grammars.

He's bad at other things because he's a retard with no experience and no logical capacity.

>using IQ on animals
lol
>smarter than chimps
nope

>>4230402
Except they have. Dolphins in the wild have been observed to cover their snouts with sea-sponges when probing certain areas to avoid scratches and abrasions.
Dolphin societies usually only include their pods, but will from time to time join up with other dolphin pods, even cooperating with other species.

>>4230401
So what does a 80-90 IQ human do? Chirp and retrieve a little ball an instructor has thrown into the water (for a small fish reward)?

>>4230411
>Smarter than chimps
Yup.

Dolphins have a larger brain to body mass ratio than chimps and experience a greater degree of brain growth, an indicator of learning ability.

>>4230421

No, they pass tests involving iconography, pattern based reasoning, and representative mathematics. They learn an invented language complete with syntax, grammar and context sensitive terms. These are tests dolphins have passed, partially using underwater touchscreens and partially using mechanical lever devices in conjunction with symbols on signs next to them.

Similar tests are how we established the intelligence of chimps, and the basis for saying that dolphins are smarter than chimps.

>>4230447
OK. Who said those tests are equivalent to human IQ tests (leaving aside the whole debate on how accurately the capture or not intelligence, or what is intelligence)?

Could for example a dolphin said to have a self?

>>4230447
OK. Who said those tests are equivalent to human IQ tests (leaving aside the whole debate on how accurately the capture or not intelligence, or what is intelligence)?

Could for example a dolphin be said to have a self?

>>4230478

They are based directly on problems typical of human IQ tests, just presented via pictures (representative icons) rather than words.

And yes, a dolphin is self aware. They confirmed that not just by the questionable marker and mirror test, but by actually fmri scanning a dolphin's brain and comparing the activity associated with higher brain functions and self recognition to recordings of human brain activity, the citation is in the OP.

>>4230507
I'd like to add dolphins also name themselves. Not necessarily an indicator of sentience but it is interesting.

Even just the level of development of the neo-cortex would suggest that they are conscious. Although there isn't really enough data to make that a definitive conclusion I wouldn't be at all surprised.

>>4230577
Gah, fuck. I confused sentience with self-awareness.

>>4230507
Any animal which can be said to befriend others for reasons not necessarily evolutionary is more than likely self-aware. They fall, just like us, for the illusion of the "I," entrenched in their own story telling, and as a result seek out other "I's" to further establish that they are indeed themselves, and not someone else, and furthermore that there is a natural distinction between "I" and "you."

Dogs are self-aware, to a degree. Many mammals are, too.

It is most certainly plausible that a species could be more conscious than ourselves. It is most certainly plausible that other species could be less conscious than ourselves, nevertheless conscious and self-aware at some level.

As someone who's eaten the flesh of cetaceans, allow me to say that they don't taste very smart.

>>4230592
As someone who's eaten the flesh of humans, allow me to say that they don't either.

Shouldn't judge a book by the taste of it's cover.

>>4230590
Funny how some modern day cognitive philosophy still interprets phenomena in black and white. Either something is conscious or it is not. Well, where exactly is the line? How can this line be determined. Does it not seem odd that the consciousness phenomena happens on a macroscopic level, and not the microscopic substrate level of physics which determines neural firings, pathways, etc.?

I'm not aware of my neural pathways, yet I can conceive the idea of an Eiffel Tower. Again, not aware of my neurons firing, yet I can also perceive the actual Eiffel Tower (it being as actual as I perceive it to be).

A dog may not be aware of its neural activity, or the simple fact that it is thinking, yet it has no problem categorizing and interacting with the world in a way not too far disparate from that of humans.

Same goes for dolphins.

I'm not implying either of these animals posses the intelligence necessary to "be" like a human, yet they clearly do distinguish themselves from other conscious beings, and furthermore from the inanimate.

>>4230606
Humans don't taste that bad.

Wasn't there a translator underway?

>>4230636
>Does it not seem odd that the consciousness phenomena happens on a macroscopic level, and not the microscopic substrate level of physics which determines neural firings, pathways, etc.?

It is because of this I would move to say that our "selves," "beings," "souls," or "I's" are traceable and reproducible physical phenomena which only exist as such at the lowest level of inception. This being the substrate level. Our consciousness, on the other hand, is an illusion perpetrated by this physical reality of the brain. At some point the neural pathways become so complex, so entangled, that they begin to fall back on themselves and a story is born. As more and more data is perceived, the more and more this substrate begins to look at itself until finally there is a "locking-in" of experience, memories, thoughts -- consciousness. Because this loop keeps on taking in data and perceiving this data by applying earlier substrate patterns to the stimuli, we become entrenched in ourselves by our own story, or our own feeling of being here, in this one brain, and not elsewhere. Truth be told, the mind does a wonderful job at tricking itself into thinking that the "I" is real and not just a rainbow in an oil slick which arises, inevitably, from a very real and complex physical substrate.

So consciousness is not really a mystery, nor is it mystical, nor is it ephemeral. Any sufficiently complex system can house consciousness, so I don't see it as being absurd that a dolphin might have a self, or a dog for that matter.