/sci/ - Science & Math

Genetics is the future of humanity.

physics major here: I treat geneticists like I treat my own; genetics is some cool shit

>>4181821
See, thats what I thought to myself when I made this decision, but with only 20 people out of a school of 40,000 showing any interest, while 2,000 are in the "Lern'bout aminals" major, it becomes hard to justify.

>>4181828
Popular = shit.

>>4181834
Yeah, I feel that, I really do. My main concern is networking though. Without having a fuckton of people in the major you cant expect a support program. Do you know how hard it is to get a genetics internship without ANY experience? Genetics isnt the kind of thing you can do with untrained labor, and I NEED something that will help me put myself out there.

Become a geneticist and cure the diseases/oldage/malnutrition/death/etc. Geneticist is one of the reliable and possible route that we have for our future. Learn to maximize gains and minimize losses by studying math along with genetics.

>>4181841
Can I do that? I have a shiton of genetics classes, and I feel like I have to go balls to the wall to get them all done in a sane and orderly fashion. Also, what sort of math should I try to put some more focus on. I already need (and have credit for) calc I&II, and basic stat. Where would you recommend I go from there as a safety blanket.

>>4181839
I, myself, am thinking of doing a genetic major. Even though it isn't a hugely popular major, it means that there is probably a demand for people who do it.

As for getting experience, I would say any experience in a lab would help. If you have done research in a lab setting, even if it isn't directly genetics but biomedical, it should help.

>>4181848
I say focus on getting a solid research going on in genetics first, then if go into deeper mathematics. Although I've never met a malth major/geneticist, I think this would help a lot in the field when studying patterns/randomness of human cells.

>>4181848
Statisitics and genetics go extremely well together.

>Statistics involves the design, collection, analysis and interpretation of numerical data, with the aim of extracting patterns and other useful information. Examples include the analysis of DNA and protein sequences, the construction of evolutionary trees from genetic data...

>Students majoring in statistics are in very high demand in business, industry, research and government... Statisticians are employed by nearly every government department and in many scientific, medical, environmental, defence and agricultural agencies.

It may not be considered hard mathematics but it is in high demand and can be used in conjuction with genetics.

>>4181853
but how do I get experience if I cant get a research position because I DONT HAVE EXPERIENCE? I hate all the fucking Zoo majors who can just stare at animals asses in a shelter all day and get "research credentials" whereas anything I put down had damn well better have the phrase "polymerase chain reaction" in the description otherwise its useless.

>>4181866
University research lab. Talk to your Professors who teach the Genetic/Biomedical classes. See if your university offers research courses where you basically do research under a professor at your university. If you don't go to a shit arse university, they will be doing research in labs. Go to them, ask if you can volunteer or something.

>>4181863
Yeah, I feel like Ive already got enough statistics (I can do population statistics tests, t's and z's etc, reflexively, and I dont see how there could be anything else I would need to know for genetics).

What more is there to statistics (as in, I know there IS more, but what does it deal with?)

>>4181873
I have literally offered to work for FREE for just about every genetics researcher on the faculty roster. Ive got a fucking 3.734 GPA for fucks sake, I have enough credits to be a sophomore and I just completed my first semester, and STILL nobody will take me. I really feel like Im doing something wrong.

Ill try asking my profs though I guess.

>>4181880
Sorry I cant be more help. I don't work in the USA. We have a whole year dedicated to doing research (4th year Honors) and most science programs offer at least one course in which you do research.

>>4181885
what country are you from, Im looking for somewhere to go abroad that has a good genetics program and is mildly english friendly (I speak latin, english, and Polish, so I figure I can adapt to any language of anglo, or rather non-asian, origin pretty quick)

>>4181889
I live in Australia. We have pretty good universities with a a fair few ranking in the top 100 universities. As for which university has the best genetic program I am not sure, I am going to a university which is in my home city.

>>4181897
And where would that be? Honestly in america a genetics program that actually DOES RESEARCH is reasonably rare, so Id suspect you've got as good a program as I could ever want.

>>4181901
I go to UQ in Brisbane, Australia. Although University of Sydney and University of Melbourne are pretty good universities as well. I would have gone to one of those if I could have, but staying in my home town is easier financially.

I know University of Melbourne has a pretty good genetics department.

But I like Biology ;_;
cells are interesting

I used to be a geneticist like you, then I took a genome to the knee.

>>4181958
-_- great

>>4181950
nothing wrong with that, just make sure you pick a more specialized major that actually has a purpose.

>>4181813
What university do you go to?

>not studying a hard science

Have fun with unemployment

>Ive was sure

>>4181889
I suggest you go to Finland

>mfw I desperately want to go into genetics but my university doesn't have a genetics major.

>>4181813
Genetics is the biggest growing field right now. The future will most certainly be BASED on your occupation

>>4181979
NC State

>>4182151
why do you ask?

What classes do you take for a genetics major that you don't have to take as a bio major?

I study Biology and I tell you: follow what you really like and you'll be successful.
Besides: genetics envolves shitloads of chemestry, usually geneticists in my country follow the BIOCHEMESTRY graduation, as you have to know many chemestry reactions and particularities.

>>4182163
A shiton of specific GN(insert number) classes, as well as requiring 9 credits worth of internship work, and 8 credits worth of "electives which include practical recombination demonstrations or PCR"

And when I say a shiton of genetics classes, basically the major requires 124 credits, and you still have something like 50 or 60 remaining after remedial highschool shit, and basic advanced math (I.e. stat and calcu up to II) as well as the aforementioned internship and "elective" hours

>>4182177
If you want I can actually screen-cap my curriculum layout and post it. Apparently its subject to change and already has changed, so its only roughly accurate.

Genetics has yet to prove to be of much use other than diagnostics, and that's more trouble than it's worth. So yeah, genetics has no foreseeable future.

>>4182182
what about, oh, I dont know, its applications in agriculture, as well as the recently developed cure for hemophilia B?

>>4182190
fuck genetically modified food. too dangerous. And how much effort ($$$) went into finding a cure? So take genetics if you want to lose money.

>>4182192
I really thought Id never have to have this discussion, but why the hell would GM food be dangerous?

If you want to talk cost, as far as Im concerned, as long as there is enough money to run a program there is enough interest to make it worth while.

>>4182192

>>4182198
yeah, I figured as much

>>4182195
Why would GMF be dangerous? Think about it. All the corn has the exact same gene. Real corn becomes less used, near extinction. A disease forms to exploit GM corn. Humans are fucked.

>>4182210
you clearly dont understand how GM crops work, even if a corn-killing gene did show up a little thing called phenotypic-plasticity would provide enough variation to save a portion of the crop.

Also, all GM seeds have the "terminator gene" which means they cannot reproduce and new seeds must be bought every year. Until that changes, there will always be small farmers using real corn.

>>4182210
>all the corn has the exact same gene

Nigga you stupid.

>>4182217
85% of the corn in the US is GM. It also cross breeds with real corn, contaminating it. Termination is just a priority control mechanism. Look what happened in India when they started using GM crops. Nearly starved.

>>4182228
How is the cross breeding "contamination", GM corn is just like normal corn but with the genes re-arranged in an optimal configuration for human needs. If it cross breeds with normal corn you will still generate diversity.

>biology
>hard science

>>4182236
yeah yeah yeah, we know

The point is GM foods are loser crops. The world isn't buying it. Farmers loose money. Genetic labs have come and gone, loosing money for investors. Too much trouble for the cost. Dangerous consequences. Genetics isn't the future.

>>4182299
if nobody is buying then why is 85% of corn in America GM?

If you're the same person who said that then you just contradicted yourself.

>>4182409
Americans don't care where they get their corn syrup from. Other countries with higher IQs do.

>>4182413
alright then, what would be the downside of corn syrup made from GM corn? I have never seen anyone conclude an argument in opposition of GM crops so Id really like to see how this goes. Ill believe GM crops are bad when someone proves it.

>>4182421
If a customer doesn't want to buy your shit, you go out of business. Any other questions?

>>4182427
plural on the customer(s) since /sci/ is overrun by grammar nazis today

>>4182421
I'll believe GM crops are good when someone proves it.

>>4182427
Are you stupid?
No one even cares about GM food.
I mean, they do, but, there is nothing they can do about it.
Mwahahaha.
Also if you think GM food is worse than "natural" food then full retard

My brother wanted to be a genetics major. He studied his ass off but in the end, they will only hire the best of the best. He now does drugs. Good luck.

>>4182427
My point is why wouldn't people want to buy GM foods? This is exactly what Im talking about; finish the argument. You started by saying nobody would buy them, and you have yet to explain why. Granted, you have established that IQ is a factor, but no real argument has been offered.

I work with genetics, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

You can never have too much math, or Comp-sci. you need mad analysis skills and linux scripting to get anything done with genetics these days. Take an intro on databases too. It's all about databases, with dozens of thousands of genes, proteins, and chemicals interacting all the time.

Take programming, simulation, discrete math, graph theory.

We don't have genetics undergrads, its usually graduate/postdoc level work with everyone coming from different fields of chemistry, medecine, biology and math.

My lab is run by a "Professor of Surgery" who knows about most of the body's functioning, tissue types and developmental process (fetus). We have some chemists doing wet-work, the biologist runs some custom databases to keep our test-tubes in order.

The actual research is done by the analyst and the PI. The PI being your boss, he writes grants to get access access to funds to allow all further work. Science is very expensive. Undergrads arent allowed to touch anything. The analyst is the code-monkey, processing numbers and handling data. Study more statistics.

There's so much more than a z-test out there...

>>4182447
Like I said man, my grades are great, and I really dont find drugs appealing at all. Thanks for the warning and best wishes though.

>>4182457
Alright, thanks man. Now Im worried that my genetics major will be useless. By the sound of it, creating a genetics major program is fixing a problem that does not exist (that is, if the genetics community has got along fine thus far with a mix of different specialists). Honestly now Im more worried than ever. Im planning on getting a minor in bio-manufacturing/engineering, do you think that may be my saving grace, or should I really start turning more towards the math side of things?

>>4182446
What do you mean there is nothing the can do about it? You can't force people to buy a product they don't want. Invest in a better business model.

>>4182472
you still have yet to even touch why anyone would be adverse to eating GM foods. All you're doing is using a single lateral argument ("nobody wants it"). Quit being a peckerhead and start debating like a sentient being. Form a thought, explain it, and then maybe we'll have something to talk about.

>>4182481
If something isn't broken why change it? That's why. Stop forcing your shit, man. Nobody wants your shit. Do you understand what those words mean?

>>4182493
>If something isn't broken why change it?

If something isn't optimized, why not improve it?

>>4182493
Riddle me this, if you didnt know about GM foods would you're life really be impacted in any way? What about GM foods is so unattractive?

You say that nobody cares to fix what isnt broken, fine. What about the constant improvement of gas mileage in cars, people appreciate that. GM foods have basically the same economic effect; they allow farmers to grow more robust crops with greater yields, thus increasing efficiency. By denying the need for efficiency, you are basically saying you would tolerate dial-up internet, a car that gets 10 miles to the gallon, and living without a cellphone.

Furthermore, you say crops arnt broken to begin with? fine, tell that to farmers who lose an entire harvest to disease or bad weather, the effects of which can be ablated by the modifications in GM crops.

I appreciate that you are trying a different argument, now Id like you to try and make a logical argument. Quantify your hatred of GM foods, stop telling me you dont like GM foods and tell me WHY.

>>4182512
inb4 "not natural"
arrogant humans think they are above nature
You are natures fucking hands

>>4182469
You need to decide which direction to go, 1: wet-work, animals, fruitflies, dissecting mouse fetus (microdissection is a big deal when looking at gene expression profiles in neighboring tissue types). And 2: Analysis, statistics, data handling. (ever moved 10 gigs of text? are you sure every bit is intact/uncorrupted?)

Both paths can go on to run the lab, the guy who decides what to research, the one primarily called the Scientist is always an older, senior, experienced person. Dont worry about "doing science" in undergrad unless there's a project your prof can give you. Most scientists are post-doc.

Honestly I dont see how a college sophmore can expect to have been anywhere near 'science'. Ask a senior student in chemistry dept how much science he does, and you might get laughed at, or a good lesson.

I don't really know what a genetics major looks like, but I went path 2 above. Everyone needs math and comp-sci, so if you can do those things and bring it to the medical community, you're golden.

There's a world of people with MD after their name, lots of $$$, and in need of technical skills and intelligence. The more interpretive intelligence you can supply, the more useful you are, and vital to the research.

I get co-author on our discoveries because I can write coherently on technical issues of statistical implications in a complex study design. Plus I love to make nice graphs.

That's why I said you want to study databases, statistics, and discrete math. Those three skills will transfer to any field you end up in down the road.

Note that I didn't say what we're researching. The specific biological trait is irrelevant, and you want to keep it that way if you want to find a job.

>>4182528
what exactly do you mean by that last part? What do you mean the specific biological trait is irrelevant? Are you saying not to shoot for specific projects because of interest because the work is all the same?

>>4182506
People don't want an inferior product and an inferior business model.

They don't want to pay MORE MONEY for the EXTRA HASSLE of making FACTORY GRADE FOOD that they can't even COPY because it's PATENTED and SELF-TERMINATING.

GMO is the DRM of food. Would you rather buy a DRM MP3 or a non-DRM MP3?

You have an inferior business model that depends on the non-availability of non-GMO food. That depends upon crushing non-GMO food out of existence.

>>4182539
The product is superior. I will agree, however, that the use of terminators is bad for several reasons.

>>4182539
you're agrument is obviously fallacious, because if it were that crippeling to grow GM crops then 85% of american farmers wouldn't do it. I understand the price constraints on a business, but for those who can afford the overhead there benefits OTHERWISE NOBODY WOULD DO IT. Someone has to keep the books, and if all they see is red then no matter how stupid and American they are they will still try to solve the problem.

I appreciate your new argument, but it needs facts to back it up, I have presented a fact which on its face undermines you're argument. Now you go.

>>4182535
It's fine to shoot for a project of interest, but at this point in your training, dont get married to "thyroid cancer" or "carrot flavor".

The scientific world will be in a different place in two years and you need cross-field skills that will be useful no matter what.

If you're niche, its hard to find a job. If you're general, everyone needs you.

Are you going to stick with genetics your whole life? Maybe that bio-engineering thing would let you get into algae-bio-fuel.

Really look into 'discrete math' the combinatorics and probabilities and graph networks will be very useful to genetics.

>>4182547
The product is subjective. It may be superior in some ways but inferior in other ways such as diversity and crippleware.

>>4182539

Yet the product itself is vastly superior and there's no hassle or rights issue with the end consumer.

When was the last time you bought some corn at the store and then were dismayed when you couldn't plant it in your garden?

>>4182570
Thats fair, but that still doesnt provide a solid "why not?"

>>4182576
I keep telling you why not. Because enough consumers do not want it. The question becomes Why would you invest in something that informed people don't want, and uninformed don't know or care for? What benefit exists?

>>4182597
why dont people want it though. You are offering no proof. I can argue that people DO want GM foods because they are potentially more nutritious, and can be grown using safer methods including the reduced use of pesticides and fertilizers. Prove to me that people dont like GM foods by explaining why they dont like them. I have my side of the argument and you have yours. At every turn I have provided logical proof while you have not. Support your statements.

>>4182597
>Because enough consumers do not want it

It can't be that much of a problem, because GM crops are profitable.

>>4182621
They don't want it because they don't trust it. Laboratory made food is best used for feeding animals to be slaughtered. Humans don't like the idea of being forced fed like pigs and chickens.

>>4182741
So what you are saying is that the failure of GM foods is due to an irrational fear, which is by its very nature non-constant, and may disappear altogether within a decade? Doesn't sound like that big of a problem.

Genetics and genetic engineering is like the dark art of science for me.

Screwing with the fabric of life and supplementing genes at our will is dangerous stuff. Though, GM food is necessary at this point due to population size and the need for a larger, disease resistant, crop.

>>4182741

Don't speak for "Humans", I've met very few humans with a problem with GM. You're clearly only speaking for yourself and have no proof to back you up on "what most people think"

And the last part of your statement is an opinion, and nonsensical at that. What do lab foods have to do with force feeding, and why wouldn't they be 100x better than something that grew by random in the wild.

>>4182774
Responding to consumer needs is the basis of successful business. Irrational business models such as GMOs may be successful for a short time (bubble) but not long.

>>4182820
Alright. It really seems like you're not going to offer any other points. While what you have brought to the table is true, it is not the sort of statment that can be backed up with fact (it simply "is" and exists as a statment). My counterpoint was (and still is) that since the consumer demand is governed by something irrational, that factor may be subject to change I.e. people getting their heads out of their asses about GM foods. Whats you're counterpoint to that?

>>4182831
Here's what we know. Changing WHAT, HOW and WHEN farmers plant, even a little, can cause crop failures. We've seen huge failures all around the world because of tiny changes to old traditional methods. American farmers are mostly corporate farmers unlike the rest of the world. Independant farmers are endangered in the US and have little power to resist corporate cheapskating methodologies. This allows for UNWANTED GMOs to be used in the US. This is not how things work around the globe and using GMOs have and will continue to cause problems.

i would think if you wanted to do genetics you should do genetics undergrad -> MD\PhD combo track -> Research

you get all the medical background and if you ever get burnt out of genetics research you can get pretty good money with the MD, and it would only take 1-2 years longer then PhD alone

but i don't know the intricacies of it

Hi, Ag science here, with a bit of the old ultragenetics.

GM corn is great. But it uses water from fossil aquifers across the midwest. It requires fuel and fertilizer for all that vigorous growth. Farmers grow at a loss and operate only becuase of government subsidy. Most corn products are turned into value added stuff: biodegradable plastics, fuels, or meat-animal feedstock.

The world will not run out of the 10,000 varieties of corn. Maize is grown around the world in a lot of climates. There are GM annuals and perennial open-pollinated varieties. There is always the possibility of genetic recombination.

The reason GM crops are criticized is because it can be argued that the technology is disruptive in older agricultural societies where a sustainable cycle has existed for centuries. The business model of a self-limited, patented crop contradicts traditional ideas about nature being a shared, communal resource. And GM cropping is monoculture, the least productive and most destructive form of human intervention from an ecological point of view.

I only eat organic foods because it is a more ethical, more healthy choice. I am a vegan, and massive subsidies for the animal feedlot industry are objectionable to me. I am an environmentalist so I agree that there is a better way to steward the landbase. I work with plants and genetics as an undergraduate researcher. I think people are still not sure how to relate to genetics. It is startling when you begin to understand how integral it is in just about everything. There is a lot of paranoia.

>>4182528
Or you can do both. I'm in a computational biology program that I think gives the best of both worlds, and leaves you with a wide variety of skills that should be very marketable.

>>4182876
I already stated that GM food was effective at fattening up pigs, chickens and americans. Does that mean it's a superior product or just way effective way of making things fat and dead?