/sci/ - Science & Math

Calculus and trig are pretty intuitive on their own.

>physics

So basically... Just continue memorizing said patterns and study physics?

I was hoping you all had some hidden jewel to make mathematics more... interesting?

It's good that you're learning /why/ math works, and not just memorising formulas and procedures to solve questions and whatnot.

For example, don't just know the derivative of sin(x), prove why the derivative of sin(x) is indeed cos(x).

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

Give this a read. You'll understand.

>>4181039
Currently reading.
Thanks!

>>4181039
No, it will not help the poor guy to understand. It is just reiterating what he has already said; 'I know the how, but I want to know the why'.

Lockhart's Lament, is indeed an interesting essay but all it does in this case is expand on ideas already put forth. It does not provide much of a way to actually make math more interesting.

>>4181054
This article is fairly disheartening but speaks an immeasurable amount of truth.

I really do feel like I am just drone going about a given set of steps that I've learned and it has always been this way.
>When I was younger my mom would ask me "Don't you like math?"
>I'd always answer, "No."
>"But why not, you are so good at it! You have an A+!"
>"Yea, its easy but it isn't interesting. I just memorize stuff and do it over and over."

After reading this I guess it makes sense. The question is...
>How do I go about finding that appreciation in math?
>How can I practice this process of discovery while having so much memorized 'jargon'?

>>4181096
That was my point. Lockhart tells you the system is shit but gives no hints on how to fix it.

I have nothing for you, sorry; although, I guess the suggestion of Physics was just so the maths you learn can be applied to something.

go on wikipedia at the math section, click on a subject that interests you, read cool stuff about the subject. Read up prerequisites to said subject. Explore different things about your subject, learn to manipulate the math as if it were a melody.

I've read Lockhart's Lament also, and just like you OP I've wanted to basically re-learn math with intuition and not with rote. I've yet to find a good resource for this, however, so can't help you there.

You kind of have to work from the ground up. If you want to know the theory behind calculus what you're looking for is analysis, but to understand that you would first have to learn about about proofs and set theory and whatnot, there are lot's of resources on this and your university should have some class covering this but I can't point you to any offhand.

So, let me get this straight. You memorized Math jargon but you want to know why you have to use said jargon to solve some problems mathematically.

And you said you got an A+. Not something to be proud of really. Especially if you're from USA.


Just go to your library and go to the math sections and find books like "How to Get pi" or "Square root of 2" or something like that.
I don't know if this will give you some sense of discovery.

I think I should give my own experience.
I found a book, or rather a collection of papers about how to get pi. The papers trace back from ancient times, East and West.
Used some of the methods and, God, I honestly feel like I was Euclid for the whole day.

do you know how to solve problems? there is no exact method that everyone uses- what do YOU do when you solve problems?

evaluate your own problem solving ability. what are your faults? what slow you down? identify them and fix them by yourself.

you do this through constant practice by solving a lot, a lot of math problems. there is no guarantee you will improve to a certain level, just like there is no guarantee that you will lift x amount of weight by weightlifting (it's genetics, and other factors). But the fact is that you will still improve, regardless of how much you do.

EVERYONE! Be retarded and completely veer away from the OP.

OP is not asking to understand the theory of calculus nor does he give a shit about that faggot's lament that gets posted by every 15 year old who thinks he knows what he's talking about.

OP wants to know the applications of Calculus

Calculus will help you in determining areas, rates of change, length of curve segments, optimization among other shit I don't care about.

Reading Gödel, Escher, Bach might be a good idear. He goes over a lot of different topics, but he explains basic propositional calc and the notion of proof in mathematics pretty well, along with eventually leading up to Gödel's Incompleteness theorem. It's a long read, but worth it I think.

Trigonometry and Calculus were developed to describe the real world around us; without rudimentary trigonometry, any detailed woodworking or navigation would be next-to-impossible. Likewise, calculus was developed in order to describe the motion of objects. Derivatives and integrals are essential to seeing how position, velocity, and acceleration are tied together (not to mention forces to potential energy to potential to fields).

Math is just like a language. When you are learning it for the first time, you are stuck reading "Go Dog, Go" and other things that seem pretty nonsensical. It wasn't until my graduate algebra class that I finally saw how what I did in grade school math could even be called "algebra".

My advice is to stick with it, until you have enough vocabulary and grammar rules memorized by rote, the real-world-motivation will be pretty hazy. But once you hit that moment of clarity, POW! it all starts to make sense.

>>4181175
No offense OP, but I doubt you could understand the proof of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

>I just dig into my mind, pick out the required steps and solve it.
Congrats, you're above average
seriously OP just read a lot of wikipedia, it will come to you.
Also don't study like this:
Ok
Bullshit
Bullshit
OH formula to memorize
Bullshit
Bullshit
.
They write that shit for a reason.
Seriously though, wikipedia, it's great for math.

>>4181305
>Godel

That's not how you spell Gödel!!

Sage because I'm a retard.

>>4181326
Sorry I don't have access to umlauts on my keyboard.

>>4181190

this

>>4181326
That's not how you spell Göbbels.

>>4181486

there was something about plateaus in skill level being determined by the grasp of the fundamentals in that _psychology_ book i read.

as to >But because I do not understand the actually application of what I am learning it feels incomplete.

you better get used to it. doesn't get any better at any point.

liked that post >>4181172

you see, the game is about building a framework for general problem solving (pinpointing the fixed entry points, looking for the ideal final result, setting up all the elements and letting the problem to solve itself, etc). that's the application. and then, if you feel like it, maybe you can look into a domain outside of the maths and use that magnificent brain of yours.

also, a link:

http://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-have-an-understanding-of-very-advanced-mathematics

Calc; once expanded into the more advanced portion; is actually physics. you can use calc to do physics problems. For example: The derivative of a position of an object at any one time is its velocity. the derivative of velocity is acceleration.

>>4181509
>>4181509
>>4181509
NOSTALGIA

How did I get interested in math? I smoked pot, had a massive trip - saw all kinds of graphs, spirals, shit everywhere. Now I can't stop wondering what it is.

If you want to appreciate maths, you have to prove stuff. Get a book called 'proofs from the book', read it. You will understand very little at first but look up all the definitions and background theorems. If you do this you will start to appreciate the subtle art of logical manipulation, and you will begin to see why maths is an incredibly creative field.

Also, once you can understand proof, and you can appreciate logical argument for intrinsic beauty, you will never look at the world in the same way. The flowers, the sky, humans; everything has underlying mathematical structure that most people never get to enjoy.

Eventually you will be able to see all of the bullshit that everyone else thinks for what it is. This will depress you like nothing else, seeing people suck up the lies peddled by anyone who ever had power, or sold anything to anyone. You will realise that its not just that 'most people are sheep', its that most brains are actually ineffectual when dealing with information, and that mankind without strict and rigorous logical training is actually just a bunch of monkeys who get lucky every now and then.

This depression will never leave you, but neither will the beauty.

>>4181882

>>4181882

>>4181947
Actually, double that gif for >>4181812 too.

>>4181882
I wept.

hey OP, check the archive.
for math, you'll want:
http://chanarchive.org/4chan/sci/28209/sparkcharts-dump
http://chanarchive.org/4chan/sci/28300/sparkcharts-dump-2

>>4181971

You two should have some uppity Asperger's babies together.

Jesus Christ, math is just awesome puzzles and shit.

>>4181882

i was going to make a snarky comment and call you a faggot but you're right

>>4181882
what you are describing has been discovered by the ancient Chinese Toasists, that everything is the composite of opposites (yin - yan) :

Good - bad
positive - negative
logic - feelings/emotions
beauty - reasoning
math - art
abstract - concrete


You can see in a flower amazing mathematical principles (yin) but for others the flower is simply beautiful and nice to look at and to smell so for them there is no reason to ponder its beauty beyond what they perceive (yan).