/sci/ - Science & Math

It was just a small scale of the same concept, i know what you mean though

The fact that He is perfect means He cannot just let sin slide without the proper punishment. I know it does seem harsh, but thats to today's standard, where we have decided to just let things slide if they dont seem big.
So you know God never gave these flaws to humans, he created Adam and Eve without sin. They sinned on their own, and passed it down. ( I am sure this will bring up free will, so I will say this now. You have the choice to sin or not, but it is likely that you will sin at least once because of the examples around you, so far only Jesus has gone without sin.)
But God made Humans without sin, but we went and broke his one and only rule deeming us unworthy. So I would compare this more to, not practicing, eating junk, and knowing what is on the line and then having to face what you knew was coming.

The God you are thinking of would be all loving, but not righteous or perfect. It truly does pain God to see us turn our backs on him.

God could never repair humanity with it still being humanity. He did give His best efforts by washing all of those who were unholy back in Noah's time(the people then were way past what would even be acceptable by any morals, it wasnt that they just didnt believe in God that had them all die) God wiped out all but Noah's family, in hopes that the righteousness of them would be passed down, but humans still drifted off into their own ways. But think of sin more this way,

A man was a drunk, he spent every afternoon at the bar. His wife was a drunk too. They had a little boy, this boy was raised by his parents and was always around his parents, drunk or not. Now because this boy's parents were both drunks does it mean the boy has to be. No. Does it mean he is likely to become one. Yes. The boy was raised with it and by some people's argument, it was in his genes. But he still could go his life without picking up a drink.
Just the same how you could have two parents who never picked up a drink, but have a son who went to rehab by the time he was 12 for a drinking problem.
That is how sin is, it is still your choice.

God did not create us flawed, but He made us in His image, He made us so we could have a relationship with him(yeah, probably means God was a little lonely. He went so far to make a friend suitable for Adam). But for us to have a relationship with God we would have to have a free will. God did not make us flawed, He made us much like Him, actually the only beings whoever got this luxury. God then had one rule, because he did not want us to sin. He said no to eating one fruit. Eve and Adam may have been tempted by the serpent, but it was their choice either way.
So no, I do not believe we were made flawed, because God is not flawed. We have free will but made the wrong choice.
Jesus was even tempted to mess up, but He didnt.

That is where I know it can be hard to get pass, it seems like God says you are on my side or else. But that isnt how it is exactly. Yes it is definately heaven or hell without a doubt, but that is only because if God let someone who was not flawless into heaven he would have basically been sinning, God cannot do that. If God could find a way to let everyone in to heaven he would. The best thing He could do that would be holy and give EVERYONE the chance is to have a perfect sacrifice, to have something that wouldnt cover up the sin, but erase it instead. So Him and His Son decided what to do(all this was probably on that first day after the two had sinned) and when the soonest time that the human race would be able to accept it in their hearts.

To not play the game you have to stay out of everything God gives you, and you cannot sin, otherwise you automatically are entered in. i am truly sorry that it has to be such a black and white choice, but God really does not want to send you anywhere but paradise. I am willing to go so far that God will not even be happy when he finally throws satan in the lake of fire. God probably still feels pain from the day Lucifer(satan) went and sinned, if I recall that was one of God's angels.
God is not being conceited by asking for forgiveness, He is being righteous. It is the only way, we are not perfect, He is. We need to want to be forgiven for it, otherwise we are being evil in our heart. If you went and stabbed a good friend in the back and you lost that friend, is it conceited for that friend to want you to ask for forgiveness before rebuilding that relationship? I think it is understandable that the friend wants to know you want to rebuild the relationship that you had.

>>4176231
>on /sci/
>adam and eve
wtf
>god never gave humans sin
>god allows the devil to live
>god created the devil
>god created evil
>god is responsible for all sins

Well, in my eyes at least, God just wants to know that you are sorry you sinned and did something that was wrong. He wants to rebuild that relationship, but you have to let Him and you have to give an effort. God doesnt want you to believe in Him just because He can kill you with a lightning bolt while you are underground. He wants you to come to him because He loves you. He is doing all he can to reach you, in my eyes He is almost begging that you see the light. Jesus had the power on the cross to say "Im out, I dont wanna do this, sorry everyone but I do not need to pay for what you did, this pain is unbearable" I mean try to imagine the worst pain you have ever felt, that wasnt even God trying to unleash any wrath on you. Jesus took ALL of that wrath.

and being humble? The main reason we have to be humble is because we are human. If a miracle occurs, give the glory to God, he did all the work.(God actually used the poor and crippled and the weak just so everyone would know it was God's work). God has nothing to be humble about. Even though that is true Jesus was one of the most humble men in the world. Jesus was sinless and the Son of God, he didnt have to be humble. But He was, he could have became richer then Bill Gates if he wanted, but he came into the world in a humble manner. He went so far that he was born and his cradle was a manger. Jesus leads by example and showed how to act, because he knew the glory was God's. He wanted to show us that even He was giving God the glory.

The fact that nobody's replying to your shit thread should be a good indication that nobody's reading it and you should stop posting.

Okay. And?

>>4176245
Fuck you for not sageing, troll.

>>4176247
>implying I'm trolling

Yeah fuck you.

>this thread
>on /sci/
>implying ive read any of your 'will of god' tl;dr bullshit.

saged, reported, called the cops, fucked your mum.

>>4176244
Why do you care?

Get over it already, everyone else did 5 minutes ago.

>>4176253
oh, this sort of thing annoys you, does it?

carry on

>>4176253
>2011
>being a tripfag

>>4176261
i shall coin a new term

tripdyke

>>4176227
thank you for posting the truth, albeit in copy pasta

Delicious copypasta

>>4176241
>>4176238
>>4176237
>>4176231
>>4176227

>2011

ISHYGDBT

>>4176270
"buy this"?
"believe this"?

>>4176275

either

>>4176279
well, it's free, so you don't have to buy it, and you have free will, so you don't have to believe it

but you ignore it at peril of your very soul

What, no rebuttle, athiests? that is because in your hearts you know it is true.

>>4176289

Dear imaginary white Jesus,

Lead me not into temptation, but the trolls are hungry and I am weak. Bless me though I feed them.

>>4176298
we just didnt read that giant wall of text garbage, you're still fucking wrong.

>>4176240
let's say for the sake of argument, that God is responsible for all sin

and let's say, for the sake of argument, that God provided a mechanism by which all sin would be dealt with, and paid the price Himself

is this not the responsible thing to do?

>>4176306
so there is God's side, and there is EK's side

pick one

>>4176320

Which side nets me more bitches

>if the bible is completely true, the earth is 6-7 thousand years old
>ancient Chinese written history goes back 8-9 thousand years

u mad christfags? don't worry, soon science will replace your backwards bronze-age superstition, and our children will sing and dance as they take turns defecating on the cross while praising Darwin.

>>4176306
atheism = unintelligible noises

nice

lulz

>>4176326
assuredly EK's side

>>4176335

Then I'm on EK's side.

For da bitches.

>>4176328
actually, ancient chinese manuscripts that are about 4,000 years old refer to dynasties that purport to be older

nothing older than about 4000 years old exists, and to assume that those oldest documents accurately point out chinese lineage = no understanding of chinese lineage

"my ancestors go back 10,000 years" does not mean that the earth is 10,000 years old

nice try tho

>>4176342
you just sold your soul for a shot at EK

lulz

>>4176343
Good point.

also remember that radiocativew dating is innacurate, because we've only known what radiation was for the last century! There's no way we could know what a million year old atom looks like, becasue we've only been able to measure them age for the last few years!

>>4176355
i dgaf about radiometric dating; linear interpolation is for idiots

assumptions, assumptions errywhere

<<<
its large, lots of detail, but can you read that in full, fully understand it, and still honestly consider yourself a Christian?

>>4176343
>>4176355
>>4176363

samefags everywhere

show me one legitimate scientific journal that disputes the fact that radiometric dating indicates that geological time is measured in the millions and billions of years. cite real sources please, not 'pat robertson's circle jerk'

>>4176375
absolutely; each and every argument in there is foolish

pick your favorite one and i'll tear it a new asshole

>>4176383
oh, you prefer the "forever alone circle jerk"?

lulz

>>4176383
lrn2samefag

2nd one is not me

dipshit

>>4176390

>come to preach the gospel of forgiveness and love
>call people 'dipshits', threaten to 'tear new assholes'

yeah your religion really changes you for the better

To religious arguments like this:

I have found out that:
1. Reasonable people waste time arguing against unreasonable, belief-based arguments
2. Unreasonable+religious fags that keep bringing these arguments haven't the capability to understand and internalize a logical argument that is contrary to their beliefs
3. OP is most likely a troll

THEREFORE:
sage

>>4176388
i'd love to see you try, erm, lets try the section on morality, top middle.

>>4176402
>>4176388

dis gun be good

After that one, how about bottom-middle, under the 'Slavery' and 'Justice' headings?

>>4176399
fuck yeah it does

lulz

>>4176388
>posted 2 minutes after i psted the picture
>cannot possibly have read it all fully, and considered it all to be easily disprovable

uhuh, nope.

>>4176407
>thinks this is my first rodeo
>thinks that pic hasn't been circulating for years
>mfw i have no face

>>4176410
whatever
fucking get on it then.

we're waiting, hun.

>>4176402
the one where it says my church told me that atheists necessarily turn to hedonism and anarchy?

never happened

straw man

next

>>4176418

it happens every day in the cristian media nigger

>>4176418
How about the part where God killed and tortured all those people

>>4176418
THATS your fucking answer?? to a long and cleverly explained paragraph you offer a lazy evasive one-liner??

get the fuck out of my face, full fucking dense retard!

>>4176405
slavery

bible times: voluntarily for a set period of time to pay off a debt

america: bought and sold people as chattel

bible readers would be as abhorrant at american slavery as american and british christians were, and would set out to abolish it, as american and british christians did

as far as marking, taking wives, setting free, attitudes of slaves and masters, etc., you are missing one huge piece of the puzzle

my Lord is no respector of persons and dgaf if you are a slave or a freeman, a joo or gentile, rich or poor, greek, roman, persian or samaritan; all approach the throne the same.

on their knees

>>4176434

>>4176430
yeah, a weak argument needs no more than a clear recitation of what it is: a strawman

you, uh, are familiar with that term, yes?

>>4176434
Why should I respect someone that doesn't respect me or my loved ones?


Also, refute the Mirtha one.

Protip: You can't.

>>4176441

if the church is a holy institution made up of the faithful, then questioning the actions and worth of those faithful is very much relevant

Justice:

the curse for the adulterous woman is awesome. if she cheated, lies, and drinks the bitter water, she rots

if she is innocent, she's fine

God's curse magic in action, and woe to the woman who lies at the alter, lulz

>>4176441
there was more to it than that! you clearly havent even fucking read it all, skimmed at best.

and yes i know what a fucking strawman is you thick pious piece of shit!

This thread has nothing to do with science.

saged, reported, erased browser history, uninstalled firefox, threw my computer out of the window, called the cops, alerted the FBI

Look, there are two conslusive proofs in the bible that the Christian God is not who his followers claim him to be, in terms of morality.

God interfered with Pharaoh's decisions, forcing him to choose not to do what Moses asked on behalf of God, and then visited plagues on the OTHER PEOPLE of Egypt. He punished and killed innocent men, women and children for the decisions of their kings, whom they did not choose. That is immoral.

Leviticus 27: 28-29 tells the reader that anything, including people, devoted to be sacrificed cannot be redeemed. Your God accepts human sacrifice in te Hebrew bible.

These two things, out of hundreds of possibilities, PROVE conclusively that the Christian God is immoral in the extreme.

Justice:

The odd case of the she-bear

read the story closer. the mob of angry arab youths (palestinians anyone?) was threatening the life of a prophet of God, Elisha, by chanting "Go up!" in the way Elijah was taken from the world

fuck with God's prophet, threaten his life, form a mob, and get killed by a bear

that's fucking awesome

>>4176441
>recitation
you probably mean refutation, and your sentence structure would still be wrong, but thanks for adding weight behind the emerging theory of you being a massive fucking cunt-moron!

Justice:

Spare the rod, spoil the child

so, so many of you children were spared the rod, and are now so, so spoiled

once again, corporal punishment works, and "time out" fails, hard

>>4176430

You can't get mad, emirates

I don't understand how people can fall for religion, but we're all entitled to our opinions as long as we don't negatively effect other peaceful individuals.

>>4176475

>it's better to beat your children for doing something you don't like than for them to face the consequences of doing something wrong

Justice:

God committing "atrocities"

if a potter makes a pot, and it doesn't come out the way he wants it to, and breaks it on the pot shard heap of failed pots, is he committing an atrocity? should we close down all of the potter's operations? shun all the potters?

no, of course not; God is the potter, and we are the pots.

should the pots condemn the potter? or can the potter do as He wills with His pots?

>Blueprints everyone's life
>Newborn babies get run over by a truck after leaving a hospital
It's not even a question of if he exists or not. I'm not worshiping some faggot who does this shit.

>>4176494

Except pots are sentient beings.

Flawed argument. It's like sayin I can take my ten year old son and rape his ass.

Fucking judgement, man. Why do you guys even care?

The only reason the afterlife is so strongly associated with pain, pleasure and judgement––reward and punishment––is because this is what we are most familiar with.

Yet so much of what there is, is not familiar to us.

>>4176455
why would God respect you? have you done anything like what He has done? have you spoken a universe into existence?

as a matter of fact, have you done anything but with the tools and conditions that He has provided for you?

He loves you, but let's get real. He remembers that He made your ancestors out of dirt.

>>4176475
None of my friends were beaten to the best of my knowledge. They're all fine individuals who'll make something positive of their life.

If a child "needs" corporal punishment to control his actions then he either has a mental disability or there is something seriously wrong with his home life and how he was raised. A child should not need to be disciplined in any physically violent way.

>>4176509
I still don't respect something that doesn't care about or respect me. God's a fucking dick and can rot, the prick. Who the hell creates something ,and then demand it be eternally subordinate instead of its equal?

>>4176227
>conclusive proof of god

Fuck off and read Camus, you illiterate fuck.

>>4176461
let's define "church"

i will define it as the church Jesus Christ started during His ministry, populated ONLY by the people who recognize His Lordship, and who know in their hearts that He was raised from the dead

i do not count anyone who thinks they are a christian, or in the church, by means of membership in an earthly group, like the roman catholic church, or the mormon church, etc.

i can be a member of the naacp, but that doesn't make me black

>Christian

Yeah, nah, you're a cunt. Just because your life is so empty and devoid of worth, it doesn't mean the rest of us are willing to just throw away everything we have. I suppose if I were a basement-dwelling fucktard like you, weighing 400lbs and fused to my chair by sweat, shit and fungus then yes, maybe I would see the appeal of that proposal but, as I am a normal and socially competent person, I simply don't. How about you take your fat, uneducated ass off of my board and back to fucking Reddit where it belongs you stupid, worthless shit.

You could die tomorrow and nobody would give a fuck. Scratch that, I'd give a fuck. I'd be glad that you were dead. Just fucking kill yourself you worthless excuse for a sphincter. I hope you fucking die. You are not even a human fucking being. You are shit. You are worse than shit. When people have to choose between your company and spending four years in North Korea, they sure as hell aren't choosing you. Why do you exist?

Please, just GO. Leave now, and never come back. We don't want you. Nobody wants you. Fuck off you filthy fucking faggot. You are everything wrong with this board. You are everything wrong with the world. I bet you're a fucking nigger, aren't you. Some fatass fat fucking nigger. Fuck you.

FUCK
YOU.

>>4176469
lulz, u mad?

the morality clause attempted to posit the argument that christians think they have a corner on the market of morality. nothing could be further from the truth.

in the bible, it clearly states that God put His law into every human heart, and gave everybody a conscience to know right from wrong. on top of that, Adam and Eve provided us all with the knowledge of good and evil.

so to say that the church says all atheists are immoral, hedonistic anarchists is simply a strawman; the church, as defined above, would never say that

we know what we are; we are sinners saved by grace. we are murderers who accepted a pardon from the judge. we are the meek, and the humble, because we know our unworth to Him and His glory. we are the saved, not the supermen.

>>4176534
There is no proof of god. You accept it on faith. I really wish you'd understand what this means. Now please fuck off. Not science.

>>4176470
not even close

the Lord holds each and every heart of each and every ruler on earth; they do not get authority from anyone but Him. if you want to be a ruler on this earth, you put your heart into His hands, whether you know it or not

egypt was so far from innocent, that they could easily see sodom and gomorrah from where they were; and when it said God hardened pharoah's heart, it does not say that God injected a foreign thought into pharoah's head, but solidified what was already there

if you want to be free, be a christian; if you want to have all of your paths be yours, do not strive for a kingdom

>>4176522

yeah go ahead and keep changing definitions and employing sophistry when you get cornered

>>4176534
>implying god is judging you
>implying a god judging you in that way is more likely than a god judging you in the opposite way or judging you at all.

To believe you can gain favour with god and improve your conditions in the afterlife is like arguing that you can influence your opportunities in life even before you are born.

>>4176473
lulz

>>4176474
not really; i mean what i post, and you're quite welcome

a man can well be judged by the enemies he keeps, moreso than by the company he keeps

>>4176548

Confirmed for troll. Stay classy.

­ods, please ban everyone replying to this thread, including me.

>>4176487
uh, the consequences are that they are going to get their little butts spanked

works wonders for kids (well, kids with an intact family and no psychopathic parent). society used it for thousands of years

and then, the hippies, and you, their rebellious offspring

le sigh

/v/ trying to be smart
>>>/v/121785506

>>4176499
no blueprints; just omniscience

and since you do not share His omniscience, please feel free to disregard it. you cannot surprise God, and He wouldn't be God if it were otherwise.

but stop kidding yourself; He loves children more than you love children, and even went so far as to say the Kingdom of God is made up of children

>>4176501
pot:potter :: you:God

and since your child was created by God, no, you do not have the right to do with him as you will; that would be a pot:pot situation

>>4176508
exactly. and i want to make sure i have an eternity to explore it all, not just 120 shit years in a meat puppet on the third rock from the sun

>>4176510
yeah, this is modern thinking, and it has gotten us to a godless society with fractured families, latch key kids, and rampant drug abuse

it doesn't work, and i'm sorry you're not close enough to your friends to know that

>>4176514
He set a plan in motion to bring you up to His level, and all you have to do is believe His Son

so, yeah, He did what He had to do, and now the ball is in your court

if you reject Him, He will respect your decision, and put you into a place that He will never be, and where nothing He is will ever be

good luck with your rebellion against an omnipotent deity, buddy; it's not a new idea, and it has absolutely zero chance of success

>>4176518
why would Camus have more authority than Matthew? Mark? Luke? John? people who walked with and talked face-to-face with Jesus Christ?

but follow camus if you choose; and end up where camus is

that's the way the universe works

>>4176529
i love you :P

thank you for the persecution; you have provided me with more wealth than you can imagine

>>4176542
and i wish you understood what faith is too. faith is not a gauss, a theory. it is a property that you possess, in varying amounts, and you use it daily to survive.

proof of God is literally everywhere; you cannot go anywhere and not find Him there.

>>4176625
"...BECOZ GOD WILL LIKE ME MORE NOW BECAUSE I ARE PERSECUTED AND I AM MARTYR...SORT OF. GOD FEEL SORRY FOR ME WHEN I GET ASSPAINED FOR BEING A GULLBILE MORON"

>>4176562
i preach Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God; on those two will i speak, and not to any man-made "religious" group, which vary widely

your mileage may vary

>>4176565
the former is something all men strive to do; improve their relationship with "god", however they define it

as to the second, there was a time before you were born, but you did not exist. however, certain things before you were born did impact you, including without limiation the sins of your father, grandfather, etc.

christfag out.

been fun.

>>4176635
EK just shut up. Shut up. For the love of god make me a sandwich.

>>4176542
Faith is trust. Faith is hope. Nothing more. Not even if you convince yourself otherwise (on faith)

>>4176640
>talk shut
>get pwned
>run away

'been fun.'

>>4176608
There is nothing you can do to gain favour with the gods that won't advance your chances in the favour of other possible gods. (all gods are equally possible)

OP there is a bit of a difference.

When I go to do a test I agree to not cheat and that if I do I will be expelled.

I know for a fact that if I am cheating and get caught cheating I will be expelled no questions asked.

But sin? Well not only did I not agree that if I sinned I will go to hell but I do not even know if I sin if I will go to hell.

I also have the choice not to do the test at all.


But in all honesty what really fucks me off, really really fucks me off, lets say there is a god.
This supreme being will be uncomprehendingly intelligent, we could not even for a second begin to try and imagine what the being is up to, I mean shit God created the universe/life ect ect

So if God does exist or you belive he does exist, threads like this are even more retarded because how for a second can you pretend like you know gods will?

For example

> The fact that He is perfect means He cannot just let sin slide without the proper punishment

How the fuck could you know this? You couldnt, it amazes me how people who believe in a uncomprehendingly smart being, pretend to know what the being will/can do.

For all you know the bible was just put here as a test to see who would think for themselves and act good out of free will and to see who would not think for themselves and blindly follow a book.

>>4176660
*shit

>>4176621
Everything written of jesus was written after his lifetime.

>>4176640
>the former is something all men strive to do; improve their relationship with "god", however they define it

there is nothing you can do in this regard.

I don't worship God because he's a power-hungry fuck.

Seriously, he created humans and didn't even give us eye lasers? How could you love a God who doesn't even give you eye lasers?

>>4176621
false equivalence implying I follow every author I read like you follow the bible (blindly and on faith/trust/hope)