/sci/ - Science & Math

Just wanted to start a thread and you beat me to it.

Excited as fuck btw.

To what degree are we expecting it to be discovered? Like, are they probably about to say "oh fuck its the higgs boson right there in the flesh" or more like "well it might not be something we thought would appear to be it does but it doesn't"?

>>4136041
According to the BBC and Guardian they have "strong evidence" for the existence of the particle/force and expect to announce its discovery some time next year.

>>4136041
According to Physics Guy:
"The only thing I will say is that I believe the gamma gamma channel really needs further study."[1]

[1]^http://archive.installgentoo.net/sci/thread/4125722#p4126322

(He's proved to us that he works at the LHC many times before if you're the skeptical type)

>>4136046
Well this is exciting.

Im sitting excitedly.

>>4136056
Also there's a jackie chan movie on tv.

Inb4 antigravity boats made out of negatively charged higgs bosons

inb4 they announce the Higgs handgun which causes planets to implode

inb4 they prove Higgs doesn't exist, the standard model is severely flawed, and quantum physics must be entirely re-written.

Inb4 antigravity penile implants

Has it started yet!?

>>4136105
yes
>>4136067
>>4136091
>>4136096
>>4136103

they announced they captured a higgs boson for long enough top record its existance, but not long enough to work out its magic

>>4136105
thinks it's in one hour

>>4136106

Tits, can't get onto the webcast, is it still going? What link do I use?

Inb4 countless hordes of unspeakable abominations pour from the fiery gates of hell and the legions of the Eyeless One deluge us.

>>4136111
well thats good, because I have an exam today I havent revised for.

>>4136110
http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2011/12/13/higgs-liveblog/
Fag's just trolling

>>4136122
>here
Webcam's online though

Not getting any sound. Although I heard the crowd a second ago.

Someone remind me what this means?

>>4136126
>all those macfags
What idiot let them in?

>>4136126
Same here, prolly muted mic

>>4136133
It'll confirm that our standard model of matter is correct give evidence as to where all our mass comes from

>>4136150
They probably have money.

If you have money and aren't a gamer, why the fuck not get a Mac?

>>4136157
>Hey come buy this expensive pile of shit. If you have the money, why not?

Just pyrotechnic show.
Well, I'll go back to my bad. Bye, guys!

ugh can't get a continuous stream

CERN is obviously underfunded

>>4136163
Exactly. There's no reason not to. Besides at least its UNIX like.

Its sort of like rolex

lol at all the physicists browsing their facebook

>>4136133
God is dead.

>>4136166
Yeah, the crappy audio is going to make the seminar unintelligible, I'm relying on this guy to tell me what the fuck is happening:
http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2011/12/13/higgs-liveblog/

>all dem apples

>>4136157
Because it's overly priced for no good reason? Uses the same parts as any other laptop(only outdated and you can't upgrade it) and has an incompatible, uncustomisable useless operating system.

Why WOULD you get a Mac?

>macs are for hipster faggots who study art history
>and for particle physicists

>>4136180
because you are ugly as fuck and need anything shiny to attract a mate.

my body is ready.

>>4136180
Just install Linux on it and it's suddenly better. Again its a status thing like everything else thats over priced in the world

Oh, god dammit shut up about the mac's already they're probably journalists anyway.

>>4136180

>uncustomizable useless operating system

Its a UNIX system, and if you're a scientist, that is hardly a useless OS. And they aren't gamers, so they could care less about customizing their hardware.

I mean fuck, all of 4chan is composed of retarded gamers who think they know science.

The sound is not playing on my side, is anyone else experiencing this?
No, its not on mute.
All I hear is static.

any swissfag here ?

I want this wallpaper <3

>>4136191

They aren't going to stream audio of a crowd of people in a room all taking at once. Just wait until the seminar starts

>>4136180
>>4136179
>>4136163
>>4136157
get the fuck out of this thread and go back to /b/

>>4136194
thats like 20 seconds in GIMP or photoshop

>>4136199

not if you want the hi-res one

lets get this shit started
heard the crowd a second ago

>>4136202
Its still like 20 seconds in GIMP or Photoshop.

Just upscale it and smooth away the jaggies

i think i just saw my EM prof.

Internet Explorer!
I respect them!

>>4136194
>real player
>free offers
>IE

CERN just lost all credibility.

Apparently all the journalists at CERN are old fags who just look like scientists.

>>4136198
but i get to stay right, oh mighty powerful one, how thou judgement is wise and righteous, show us your true power, oh wait your a pointless butthurt little cunt trying to throw his temper out the pram and act like everyone actually listens to their orders.

Go enjoy your hand.

>>4136208
The new IE is actually quite good, I'm using it with firefox right now to view threads/blogs and the stream simultaneously.

STOP. KICKING. THIS FUCKING MIC.
OR I'M GONNA FUCKING RAPE ALL YOUR FAMILY FOR CHRISTMAS.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THE MIC WORKS.

all my rage when black top wearing tech guy hits the mic for 5 minutes seemingly cern cant hire a decent computer technition.

>>4136223

>technition

4chan can't attract people with better grammar.

This is great news! How long until we get Higgs Boson Breakfast cereal?

>>4136183
>macfag detected
Enjoying that buyers remorse?

>>4136185
If you're just planning on using Linux then it's completely pointless to buy a Mac. You could buy a better laptop for less money.

You're right though, it is used as a status symbol. Though really it's giving them a negative status to anyone with any basic knowledge of computers.

>>4136188
Really? You're going to argue that OSX is better than any number of vastly superior Linux distros for scientific purposes? You're batshit fucking insane.

>>4136198
I think you mean /g/

>>4136226
ive been awake for 2 and a half days, plus 4chan isnt trying to recreate god.

>>4136227
i think it would probably encourage weight gain

>enter Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

AWWWWWWWWW YEAH IT HAS BEGUN

its started!

shitty stream is shitty

EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP IT'S STARTING

>>4136230
I think you misunderstood the direction of my comment, it was a response to the final question, why would you buy a mac.

I love the 5 or 6 guys there with pcs not giving a fuck in the middle of a ton of macfags.

this is fucking woeful

FUCK my stream is FUCKED

COMIC SANS MS. SRSLY, CERN.

Anybody knows how long this will last?

>dat cute nerd chick

shit my stream keeps cutting out, is there a super-low-resolution stream anywhere for people with shitty internet connections

The stream is seriously lagging for me.

>>4136244
Ah. My mistake, my good man.

I HAVE FIVE FUCKING MINUTES TO WATCH THIS. GET TO THE FUCKING POINT

>>4136250
It's not your connection, it's the stream.

oh god the stream is horrible
wtf cern

COMIC SANS RULES!

streams working perfectly here

(in uk)

Great, getting "The service is unavailable." now.

Has anything been said yet?

The stream is working flawless for me.
Singapore btw.

>we made the most impressive technology in world
>we cant run a fucking stream

HOW. I'm in fucking Switerland and the stream is fucking DOWN for me. THE FUCK.

>dem clapping hands

>dat animated clapping hand
People tell me cern is the most advanced scientifi endevous ever attempted by humans
yet their presentation wouldn't pass a 6th grade power point presentation

Did cern even spend time doing the slideshow?
jeez, it looks like a lazy highschooler did it.

>>4136261

I blame the macfags for fagging up the stream

Is it me and my shitty connection/computer or is the stream freezing every 5 seconds or so?

yep, unavailable.

>>4136276
Oh? Not the Jews?

HOLY FUCK THEY SAID THEY BROKE CAUSALITY

I WISH YOU GUYS WITHOUT THE STREAM COULD SEE THIS

>>4136278
Its your computer/connection.

ITT:cern loses credibility to present anything other than highschooler standard work

So basically, all they did was improve measurements. They did not find the Higgs Boson. Thank you mainstream media for getting my hopes up.

can all you faggots fuck off and leave actual scientists to watch this stream please

>>4136283
Fuck you anon, not cool.

>>4136290
>said the tripfag named Cunt

Im starting to think, if these guys cant run a stream, or make a half decent powerpoint slideshow then how in the fuck could they ever have managed to do half the shit they are claiming to have done, this higgs boson is as big a farce as neutrino speed, its all a lie to cover the fact the lhc doesnt work, spread the word.

Dammit Cern, cut to the point.
DID YOU FIND THE HIGGS OR NOT?

>>4136285
Damn, at least I have the stream though.

goddamnit cern get to the point

>dem gorgeous agreements

>>4136293
It's not the same people you fucking idiot.

>>4136290

>actual scientists
>4chan

I almost shat my pants laughing.

>>4136282

This ain't /pol/..... but some jew probably skimmed the server cash.

>putting pop up boxes over your graphs

Jesus fuck these scientists can't put together a power point .

>>4136290
>>4136292

change of plan, i give up, I'll watch the highlights on sky news later and get back to my real science

>>4136304
One of the people sitting in that room browses /sci/.
>>4136052

jus sayin

I think we broke it, the website is now unresponsive for me.

TANGO DOWN! DDOS ATTACK!

>>4136303
Your telling me cern wouldnt be at that fucking place looking at this fucking presentation, fuck you cunt/

Someone please restream
It'll help take demand off the servers

>>4136306

>sky news
>real science

laughingeditorsrecordingyourphonecalls.py

>>4136308
I mean the stream wasn't set up by the same people smashing particles at the LHC...

>95% confidence level

goddamnit

>macbooks everywhere
ISHYGDDT

>>4136312
Its just you.

>>4136318
Are they not working together, are cern people not there right now watching this half assed 12 year old worthy presentation for English class probably even aware the stream is fucked, are you trying to tell me cern wouldn't be worried about the technology they were using to have their ideas presented, and whom they were being presented by and how?

fuck you.

Fuck this stream, I give up.

>Our live streaming and webcasting facilities allow you to deliver audio and video in real time from anywhere in the world.
>By streaming your webcast from one of our global content distriibution networks we remove the load from your own web servers, which are not designed to manage the heavy task of delivering audio and video.
>The global network redistributes the streaming from one server to many other servers around the world, offering superb performance and reliability wherever your audience is viewing from.

>stream starts working

OH BOY THIS WILL BE AWESOME

>comic sans
>boxes cut and pasted everywhere
>annoying italian
>no new results

fuck this gay world

>>4136322
I know realise this has already been brought up.
disregard women; sucks cock

Not but seriously, their tables are in Comic too? But... where is my Computer Modern? Where is my LaTeX? Can't they spend some time making Beamer presentations for their talks? Do physicists always do powerpoint shit?

>>4136324
It's working for me now, just very slow...

MONTE CARLO?

> Able to operate a particle smasher
> Incapable of providing a good streaming service
>CERN

>>4136331
This is the problem when you let inferior physicists involved when all we need is glorious mathematician master race

>>4136336
They invented the web, cut them some slack.

>>4136336

>GROOVY GECKO STREAMING SOLUTIONS
>CERN

>>4136332

yeah, that's as good as it not working

>CERN in charge of not making themselves look incompetent

>>4136331

They do it to piss off all the macfags who want shiny things not science.

Really you aint focused enough if you bother about your appearance.

>>4136336

Meh all CERN did was invent the WWW protocol. Darpa did all the real work inventing LAN's.

For all those faggots who are bashing the slideshow, you fucks obviously haven't been to any real science seminars. Usually they serve cookies and coffee too. The most science most of you have probably ever seen was in a video game or a science fiction movie. Its a fucking slideshow. Go kill yourselves.

>>4136347
>WWW protocol

Do you want me to kill you?

>>4136349

Well its not a protocol but i wanted to sound cool and didn't think anyone on /SCI/ would call me out. Please don't kill me ;_;

>>4136348
we have templates all slides must conform to, in order that we create a cohesive 'brand'

makes me sick i know but not a hint of comic sans anywhere

stream is working fine. Too sleepy to understand accent. Just want a quick conclusion of results.

and I'm out

well, that sucked.

This is fucking gay. Fuck CERN. This is why the real scientists come to America.

>>4136353

because clearly the slideshow and font have detrimental effects on the results from the science.

Dumb mother fuckers.

So, what are they currently announcing?

I dropped in later and didn't see the introduction.

>>4136356

>America
>appreciation and funding for science

Woops. Now I remember why they all went to Europe.

>>4136356

Don't scientists go to america to get fat and relax because no one expects them to make any discoveries?

>>4136358
Certainly not, but I wouldn't want to have my slides look like some geocities website.

>>4136358

at the expense of the taxpayer. hehe suck it

Slides will be available here after the presentation to anyone missing the stream:
https://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=164890#

>>4136346
Seriously?

LaTeX = Mac? No.
LaTeX is more shiny than powerpoint? No.
Comic Sans MS isn't shiny? It is. Why do you think it's the font used by 12yo kids?

LaTeX is mature, proper, minimalistic, without blocks of 3 different colors with no justifications of the different colors, without different list delimiters for no reason, etc. It's easy to read, it's looks good without being a Christmas tree like that girl's powerpoint.

You clearly have no clue.

>>4136353
Am I right in saying you work for a profit based company? In academia, nobody gives a fuck.

>>4136356
America is a continent, not a country. Dumbass!

>>4136369

what? I have LaTex on my mac...

Is it just me or there was a
"5% (±3%)"
to indicate a range from 2% to 8%?

Or were they so lucky that it was 5% with 3% precision? I doubt that.

>>4136370
>In academia, nobody gives a fuck.

But that's wrong. For seminars chairs always hand out templates.
And professors usually go to great lengths to ensure their slides are readable, and clean.

>>4136374

>takes everything seriously word for word

on a side note to the sky news issue, i went onto the 'interactive' where murnahan told me i could find the stream only to find an 8 second clip of balls flying through a tube. lol'd

>>4136370
>In academia, nobody gives a fuck.

Stop talking out of of your arse.

>>4136374
>implying that he implied this is not true.

>>4136377

This is not an academic environment in the sense of students and professors. This is an intellectual academic environment. All they care about is results.

>>4136375
I'm not saying there isn't LaTeX on macs. I'm saying it's not a mac thing. It's on windows as well, and obviously on *nix.

WTF IS MONTE CARLO?

>>4136387

How is it not a mac thing? How is it a windows thing?

Comic Sans was pretty standard for scientific figures in the nineties. I remember being surprised by poster sessions and even talks at scientific conferences. Comic Sans was rife, as were big stupid rectangles in primary colors. My guess is that someone saw that comic sans was a thicker font by default, and felt that made it a bit more visible from a distance. Then, for whatever reason, it caught on.

Comic Sans looks completely amateurish in a presentation, but it's use has been surprisingly common in scientific conferences for over a decade.

This better be recorded because it's currently unwatchable for me.

>>4136386
>This is an intellectual academic environment.

Okay, confirmed troll.

>>4136389

go take an error analysis course or some graduate level statistical mechanics.

>>4136389
It's where rich people come to waste a lot of money.

>>4136390
Not who you're talking to, but holy shit you're stupid. Read his post again and think really hard this time.

>>4136370

the board want to push it that way, away from the government funding we currently feast on. makes it all the more laughable really, commercial and academia is one thing but you'd expect a science society full of civil servants to be truly the rear echelon when it came to 'brand awareness' god it makes me mad.

>>4136361
>>4136362
>>4136370
It's almost 8am CST you euros need to shut up on the internet now.

>>4136393

Okay, confirmed for legally retarded.

>>4136389
>Doesn't know about MonteCarlo Inferrence

Babbys first particle physics seminar

Just a reminder for everyone having trouble with the stream and newcomers that you can get updates on the seminar here:
http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2011/12/12/getting-closer-to-finding-out-if-the-higgs-exists/

Is the stream not-terrible for anyone?

>>4136390
I never said it was a windows thing, for suck sake... That guy (maybe you?) said that not using LaTeX was something to annoy macfags. I'm saying that LaTeX is more of a Linux thing than a mac thing, and that it's as much of a mac thing as of a windows thing.

>>4136404
Nope just for you, run perfectly for me.

>>4136405

LaTex is a typesetting program you dumb fuck. It isn't a windows, mac, or linux thing.

the boxes in the slides aren't even centered

fucking centaurs

who's speaking? an italian woman?

>>4136412
>the boxes in the slides aren't even centered
or aligned

126 GeV
126 GeV
126 GeV
126 GeV
126 GeV

>>4136415
No she's obviously German.

Can't view the stream (I'm in a somewhat of an old OS, too much to explain here).

Did they find the particle or what?

ugh she reminds me of my concrete structures lecturer

fucking italians.

>>4136420
No, I suppose this was only a funding drive.

>>4136420
NOT ENOUGH DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER

>dem green smily faces in boxes

that's the highlight so far

sooooooooooo


they didn't actually discover anything.

>126 GeV

>>4136405

>That guy (maybe you?) said that not using LaTeX was something to annoy macfags

Not him. I wasn't referring to LaTeX, I was only suggesting that particle physicists don't give a fuck about how PR friendly the presentation of their data is.

Hence pissing off the macfag journalists.

FUCK PRESENTATION MOAR SCIENCE

>>4136420
They didn't not find the particle. Need more data to say yes, but this was always known.
They improved the range of excluded masses so that is must appear in something like 116-131 GeV

That's only the ATLAS group though.

yeah, no lecture tomorrow, my prof is sitting in the audience

fuck this gay earth.

>>4136431
>must
No, "should" at most.

>>4136432

>lecture tomorrow

do you not have a winter vacation?

>A year from now, we’ll have enough data to make a definitive statement, one way or the other.

Does this mean there will be no definitive statement now? What the fuck were they going to announce today?

>>4136437
Not him, but we have lectures till the 23rd.

>>4136440
>(exciting!)

It hurts to read this.

>>4136436
yes, I screwed up my post a bit.
Anyway, here is the atlas conclusion page for those without stream.

>>4136438

>A year from now we'll send a man to Mars, have fusion energy, and have microchip brain implants from which we can access tons of information

Didn't quite turn out the way we thought now, did it.

THERE IS NO KEYBOARD

KEYBOARD KEYBOARD KEYBOARD

>>4136374
Nope, not in the English language anymore. Meanings of words change. Deal with it. Now it's America or the Americas.

>>4136439

semester system?

>>4136437
not jet, starting next week (more cristmas vacations)

>>4136435
>red[tube](?) in the searchbar
>twitter
>not much else to make fun of
Come on man, why did you close all of your embarrassing stuff before taking the screenshot?

>>4136445
Yeah. Exams are early February.

Yeah, so they spend all this money on some fancy physics stuff and discover this shit. But how the fuck is this useful?

>>4136448

Sorry quarter system throwing me off

So what did they find?

>>4136450
0/10
Someone's going to bite anyway, just watch.

>>4136447
>twitter
>embarrassing

I use it purely as a news feed to keep myself updated with science (I have ~36 science and engineering sites and a few CERN physicists in there. Also I'm not important enough to care about being embarrassed.

FUCK THIS

This talk is exactly the same, albeit with slightly better formatting.

>>4136455
Demonstration of my ingenious use of twitter <--

can anyone sum up everything?

just started watching...

pls :)

>>4136411
>Teaching me about LaTeX
...

I know what LaTeX is. I know that it outputs postscript documents if you use the "classic" latex command and not pdflatex, and that postscript is an adobe format that was originally UNIX, while MS and Apple never supported it. I'm not saying LaTeX is developed only for Linux or things like that, I'm saying that if you really want to say that LaTeX is close to one of the 3 among linux, windows and mac os, then linux wins.

>>4136461
>postscript is an adobe format that was originally UNIX
......

>>4136458
>slightly
>implying formatting isn't fine and the first presentation wasn't horrible

>>4136461

>comparing LaTex to an operating system

I can see why he reminded you it was a typesetting program

>>4136455
>not using twitter to inform the masses about what kind of sandwich you're eating

Alright fair enough. That's actually not a bad idea, I might start doing the same thing. I was right about redtube though, right?

Hey, come on now. You're never too unimportant to care about embarrassment. In fact I'm sure you'd be real embarrassed if you had accidentally left your CP folder on screen.

>>4136467

>Acts as if he doesn't have a CP folder or looks at porn

My knight in shining armor has arrived.

>>4136420
The rumor was that both experiments are seeing an excess at the same place, near 125 GeV, but not enough to claim a discovery. This is confirmed by ATLAS now, and now CMS is presenting.

Remember that it's not a matter of seeing a particular event and saying "Yep, that's a Higgs." They're doing things like building up histograms of the reconstructed mass of the particle for each candidate event, and looking for a peak. It gets easier to tell whether there's a Higgs or not the more data you have.

Peaks in a histogram can be produced either by statistical fluctuations or by a real Higgs. If the two experiments see a peak at the same mass, then it's more convincing than seeing the result of either experiment alone.

But to claim a discovery in particle physics, you have to have a less than 2.87*10^-7 of it happening by chance, and they're not there yet.

>>4136467
I just googled redtube, lolno, sadly what I googled was far more embarrassing...

[spoilers]reddit[/spoilers]...I was searching all the fora for a better stream link and in my desperation I did the unthinkable...

>>4136468
>implying

Hey, I like porn just as much as the next guy.

>>4136476
Oh my. I'm truly sorry. I can't imagine the horrors you must have witnessed.

... Reddit talking about science. I can't even imagine.

>>4136479

>4chan talking about science
>debating whether twitter is a useful source of information
>bashes reddit

Yep, I'm on /sci

Okay guys honest question. We confirm the Higgs Boson, the Standard model is correct.

What does this all mean? What are the implications of the discovery aside from confirming our predictions, and otherwise not disproving any other model we haven't created just in case it was wrong?

>>4136479
>I can't imagine the horrors you must have witnessed.
There were like 16 commenters, all of them bitching about the comic sans, only there was no discussion about the actual results like there eventually was on /sci/.

...It was like all the cancer on /sci/, concentrated on one faggy page with a shitty layout.

>>4136480
Well at least we aren't depicting the higgs boson in a rage comic(UPVOTE!).

I was legitimately discussing science earlier in this thread, so don't judge me for indulging in some mindless fun.

It's motherfucking t'Hooft sitting in the first row!

>>4136481

wow nobody?

ok, now smash the higgs boson particle

>>4136487
>>4136490
God I wish my stream worked.

Goddamn NERDGASM! One can see G t'Hooft on the first row!

>>4136490
>>4136487
Mindhive

holy shit CMS confirms

>>4136488
Well, one Nobel laureate once said it would be the most boring amazing discovery of the last decades.

The Higgs would even further cement our assumption that the standard model of particle physics is an excellent theory to describe nature on the subatomic scale. If we don't find any evidence of a Higgs, not all is lost, though. There might be other methods to give our W and Z bosons mass - I'm not an expert on this, but keywords are e.g. Technicolor.

http://www.nature.com/news/detectors-home-in-on-higgs-boson-1.9632
Holy shit these guys are fast.

tl;dr
what's the announcement?

IMPROVEMENS

>>4136444

Why?

>>4136488

It tells the world they're on the right track and to give them more money.

Lol, cattegories.

CMS conclusion

Nice.

I guess it's almost safe to say we're going to see a low-mass Higgs confirmation in 2012.

>>4136513
>>4136517
Snap.

Snake oil?

Takeallmymoney.jpg

>>4136498tl;dr
>what's the announcement?

INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER. (but we expected this if course)

The ATLAS experiment excluded all masses outside the range of 115–130 GeV,
The CMS experiment excluded all masses outside the range of 117–127 GeV.
Best agreement at 124GeV

>>4136524
what tis a GeV ?

>>4136529
Giga electronvolt..?

>>4136529
giga-electron volt

>>4136529

Giga electronvolt.

ev x10^9

>>4136529
It's a unit of mass.

>>4136529
A unit of mass, essentially. 1 proton is about 1 GeV.

Is there a better stream of this available?

>>4136536
Well ... GeV is a unit of energy at first. But theoretical physicists as well as particle physicists are fucking lazy bastards, so we set the speed of light and hbar to 1 - so GeV is used for mass, momentum, energy ,..

about the excess:

The ATLAS excess was at around 126 GeV.

The probability of an excess at least that large at 126 GeV due to statistical fluctuation was:
"3.6 sigma" (about <span class="math">2 \times 10^{-4}[/spoiler])

... but the probability of seeing a fake excess goes up when you look for the Higgs at multiple possible masses. This is called the "look elsewhere" effect.

The probability of excess at least that large at any mass was:
"2.4 sigma" (about <span class="math">10^{-2}[/spoiler])

For CMS the corresponding numbers were

mass ~ 124 GeV
probability of an excess at least that large at 126 GeV due to statistical fluctuation
"2.6 sigma" (about <span class="math">5 \times 10^{-3}[/spoiler])
probability of an excess at least that large in 110-145 GeV:
"1.9 sigma" (about <span class="math">3 \times 10^{-2}[/spoiler])
probability of an excess at least that large anywhere:
"0.6 sigma" (about <span class="math">3 \times 10^{-1}[/spoiler])

Neither excess is mentionable alone, but the fact that they're both seeing an excess at about the same mass makes this look more real.

This isn't enough to claim a discovery, of course. That will have to wait for more data.

>>4136544
Well yeah. But the question was referring to the use of GeV in the conclusion of the talk, I guess, and there, it's really used as a unit of mass, since that's the property of Higgs that we're "measuring".

>>4136544
That's why I said essentially, as that is what they really use it for, with an implied conversion from energy to mass.

>>4136542
Presumably the recorded video will be available at some point after the live talk.

Mfw it's not the Higgs boson, but something else.

>>4136551
it's probably the Ms Higgs Bosom

>>4136551
This is a very real possibility. Even when there are enough events to see for sure that something's there, they still have to measure its properties to say that it's actually the Higgs boson and not some other unexpected particle. An unexpected particle would be nice.

>>4136374
America is a country.

Just like China is a country.

Just like Cuba is a country.

Learn to English, dumbass.

Just a final bump for everyone who missed parts of the live stream:

http://www.nature.com/news/detectors-home-in-on-higgs-boson-1.9632
http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2011/12/13/higgs-liveblog/

tl;dr?
>>4136545
explains it very well.

BTW, while the picture in OP is one way to make Higgs bosons at the LHC, the most common process is expected to be gg (gluon-gluon) fusion (top left).

And one of the best ways of seeing a Higgs of around 125 GeV is looking for decays to two photons, which is the same as gluon-gluon fusion, but in reverse, and with photons in place of gluons. It's a rare decay for the Higgs of that mass, but the most common decay would be to two bottom quarks, and the LHC makes lots of bottom quarks, so it would be hard to see that way.

The reason this region around 125 GeV is being explored last (well, last other than the insanely high masses) is because at higher masses, the Higgs boson would have enough energy to decay to two real W bosons or two real Z bosons. Those are easy to see in the LHC because they often decay to electrons, muons, and tauons (and neutrinos in the case of the W but we can't see those) whereas most of the other things that can happen when two protons collide at the LHC produce things made out of quarks.

A pic is worth a thousand words. Ladies and gentlemen, the Higgs boson!

>>4136663
Where? All I see are some squigly lines.

>>4136675
All I see is a major (> 2 std devs) discrepancy between what's measured and what's expected, at around 127GeV.

>>4136605
no, there is north america, central america and southamerica. its a fucking continent. your country is the united states.

>>4136683
I see, and this small discrepancy is enough for you to claim they've found the Higgs Boson?

Just got in from work.

What's happened and what are the implications of what ever has happened?

What, they actually found it?

Somebody wanted that wall?

>The thread about this on /v/ right now
Holy dickbutt these people are stupid.

>>4136694
I never said that. I'm not retarded enough to claim that I'm certain of the existence of Higgs' by looking at the result that experts consider insufficient to give a final answer.

>>4136698
It was me. Thank you kindly anon.

>>4136695
see
>>4136608

So hover cars?

>>4136663
>implying I, with my high school-level understanding of science and mathematics can discern to any degree at all what this is attempting to convey.

>>4136704

I guess it was this faggot.

>>4136663

>>4136714
Don't worry bro, just nod and smile.

Its worked for me, who has a less than highschool level understanding of math and/or science.

>>4136663
Explanation for the ones not being able to read or lacking the knowledge to do so:
-red line - what is supposed to be observed, when you calculate it mathematically
-black line - what was actually observed
-green shaded part - +- one standard deviation (aka space for error) from red line
-yellow shaded part - +- two standard deviations from red line
-that huge spike around 126 - irregularity, means something might be there. That something might be Higgs boson, but further analysis is required.

>>4136714
>mfw I know basic chemistry and really, really basic physics
>deargodwhatamidoinginthisthread

>>4136714

Look at the graph and what the lines denote. It's not that bad to get a basic understanding.

What does finding Higgs mean for quantum mechanics?

With all honesty, this is all that I can think right now. I wish Feynman was alive today...

MOOLTY MOOLTY MOOLTY MOOLTY

>>4136731
>"It's like what we thought, except MORE."
That's all I get from it.

>>4136772
That's the point. The deviation from the excepted is high enough to suspect there is something.

in b4 God trolls everyone and there's actually a quantum effect that makes is so there's a peak sigma that you can reach and after that your experiments show there's no effect. So as you increase the energy of the machine you can only get 2.5 sigma of assurance that the higgs is there but after that the sigma value drops.

>"Scientists" wasting time on this shit
>Not improving people's quality of life

Why should we care?

>>4136781
>doesn't know that findings in particle physics cause improvement in people's lives

>>4136772
The red line is what we'd expect (on average) if there wasn't a Higgs. But we also expect what we actually see to wiggle around in about the area of the green region. It should wiggle outside the green region 32% of the time (16% chance that it wiggles above), and outside the yellow region 4.6% of the time (2.3% chance if you require an upward wiggle).

>>4136781
Did you ever watch that old BBC series called Connections? Nothing in our history or fields of study happen in an isolated bubble.

>>4136784
>implying finding out this shit will

>>4136798
>implying anti-gravitation wouldn't be cool

>>4136805
>implying visiting space is available to everyone

>>4136798
I find the argument that discoveries need to have real-world applications rather short-sighted of you. Discovering the Higgs for us is like James Clerk Maxwell theorizing electromagnetism. I'm sure there were farmers and other such peasants who felt the way you do now back then. Congratulations on being a shitstain on the globe of all human knowledge.

>>4136833
> irrelevant name drop
> insult

Stay classy /sci/.

http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2011/12/13/dont-let-the-black-dots-fool-you/

>>4136811
>implying the freeway isn't

>>4136836
>evading the point
Stay derpy.

Anyone else think 'The Adventures of Higgs Boson' would be an awesome name for a pulp scifi series?

>>4136839
>>4136663

<--CMS findings for comparison.

hmm well there's definitely SOMETHING happening at 120-125 GeV

>>4136461
>implying mac isn't unix
Since OS X is the only Unix operating system out of Windows, Linux, and Mac, I guess Latex is mac by your logic. Whatever that means

>>4136930
Just shut up. Shut your face.

>>4136663
Mass spectrometrist here. Just eyeballing it I'd agree that's right at the edge of a real thing, but not absolutely conclusive.

>>4136959
Fuck you

don't call it the fucking "God particle" and we will be more than happy to keep "religion" out of it, asswipe

>>4136930
>guy that has taken 1st semester sophomore orgo and has read the wikipedia on mass spectrometry here

>>4136839
out of range at +/- 2 sigma???

lulz

>>4136963
let's have an atheist discussion thread, please don't mention the lack of evidence of a God, tyvm

So I'm guessing I missed it. Would someone care to sum up the main points for a curious layman?

>>4136972
see
>>4136608

(I've always wanted to sage a sticky)

>>4136975
thanks

>>4136972
They did the experiments at cern and atlas and got the higgs' existance but with only 2.3 and 2.6 sigma (standard deviation), and they needed 5 for a "discovery"

>>4136033
Wouldn't the proper allegory be the genesis-particle?

>>4136839
if you told your professor that you expected a linear relationship, and got those expected values, even at 95% CL, you'd get a D-

>>4136985
Thanks bro. One question, didn't they get up to around 2/3 sigma with some other accelerator?

>>4136962
PhD. Published MS work.

>>4136972
They're seeing hits about where they expect particle to be. There's a small chance that they're actually seeing noise, so they're not 100% that it's real data. But they're getting pretty close.

Scientific America just announced a live webcast that will explain the results in layman's terms if anyone is interested:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-the-higgs-is-going-on-cern-lhc&WT.mc_id=SA
_Twitter_philipyam

>>4137012
>>4136930
Thank you for your input anon, you have an awesome job title btw.

Scientific America just announced a live webcast that will explain the results in layman's terms if anyone is interested:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-the-higgs-is-going-on-cern-lhc&WT.mc_id=SA
_Twitter_philipyam

12:30–1:30 PM ET [Live Stream]


>>4137012
>>4136930
Thank you for your input anon, you have an awesome job title btw.

>>4137033
The actual title is "Senior Research Chemist" but thanks. The sort of general rule of thumb is that if you see a peak that's about two and a half times the size of the noise, you've probably got something.

CDS is back up, so anyone who wants to read the details of the ATLAS search can look here:
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/collection/ATLAS%20Conference%20Notes?ln=en&as=1

Nothing posted by CMS yet, but keep an eye on it:
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/collection/CMS%20Conference%20Reports

They're not announcing fuck all!

They're saying they're focusing on an area but to conclusively say they've found it is fucking stupid and they're still far away from it yet.

just passing by, what's all this about?

>>>4137055
Mosquito colliders

>>4136698
>>4136207
>>4136194

>mon visage quand I realized the CERN logo show here is just '69' twisted in various orientations.
Gotta love the French/Swiss

>>4137057
the LHC? they find something finally?

This thread doesn't deserve a sticky even if it's the first almost scientific thread to grace /sci/

Saged, reported, hidden.

>>4136155
see
>>4137055

I can't believe this got stickied. Worst thread on /sci/ right now. Bunch of fags pretending to be excited over something that's not exciting in attempt to look "smart". The webcast is long over anyway.

>>4137059
>>4137075
Why don't you two retards just fuckoff and go post in a religion trolling thread or something? Try reading the thread before making such childish comments.

>>4137082
Learn from example. This man has given many contributions to this thread in this one post alone.

[sarcasm]

I'm going to kill myself now.

>>4137056

>>4137075
>>4137059
It's not about whether it deserves to be stickied. If it isn't stickied, there will be dozens of new threads opened on the topic asking what happened, and people will have to explain the same thing in each one until they get tired and start telling people to piss off.

>>4137089
>I'm going to kill myself now.
Please do, I assure you that absolutely no one will miss and your Dunning Kruger Effect behavior. You obviously don't understand the importance of these results and judging by your attitude you probably never will.

Unofficial combination from blog.vixra.org

>>4137082
I read it earlier while the webcast was still happening. I guess Mac vs. PC threads are better than religion trolling threads in your opinion? Bitching about comic sans and whether "America" is an acceptable nickname for the US?

If there's some kind of coherent summary of what was announced at the seminar, I don't see it, and quick search on Google News would yield better information faster than reading through this shitty thread.

>>4137126
>Shitposting to complain about shitposters.

>oherent summary of what was announced at the seminar, I don't see it
>I don't see it
That's because you're not very bright.
>>4136469
>>4136524
>>4136545
>>4136608

Still to complicated for you? No problem!
>>4137033

But if course, focus on the troll posts instead of the meaningful information, that's what defines a thread after all.

Live cast from Perimeter Institute:
http://perimeterinstitute.ca/instant_page/?%2522%2520%2522#11970384782576482427

One thing to bear in mind when evaluating the significance of all this. The ATLAS signal at its peak is a little larger than what you'd expect from the Standard Model Higgs. The CMS results are closer to the Standard Model. So whether the signal is real or fake, it's likely that the very low p-value from ATLAS at the peak is at least partially due to chance.

That is, if you expect a statistic in the highest .5-2% in the presence of a Higgs signal (dashed line), and you get a statistic in the highest .02% (solid line), being in the highest .02% as opposed to anywhere in the 1% doesn't make it more convincing.

Sup /sci/, I was going to make a thread but I'll post here instead:

I'm not a smart man, I don't know a great deal about physics. I'd say I have the physics level of a 14 year old (Computer science graduate here).

What I would like to know is the real life applications of this discovery. I appreciate the idea of science for the sake of science, etc. But surely there must be at least 1 way in which this discovery will have affect the average person (directly or indirectly). What useful stuff could come out of this discovery?

>>4137161
Other than better appreciation of the universe, I don't know of any, but that's not to say that there aren't or won't eventually be.

>>4137161
in real life, we have spent 10 billion US dollars to smash stuff together and employ otherwise unemployable computer geeks

>>4137033
Thanks for posting.

They actually asked my question to the physicists on the live stream.

>>4137178

>employ otherwise unemployable computer geeks

Oh well, this gives me hope at least...

>>4137033

jesus christ is there actually a correlation between nasal voices, lisps and intelligence?

>>4137045
Actually, the CMS paper is available. I just was looking in the wrong place.

ATLAS:
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/collection/ATLAS%20Conference%20Notes?ln=en&as=1

CMS:
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/collection/CMS%20Physics%20Analysis%20Summaries?ln=en&as=1

Hello cold fusion 2.0

OP HERE
HOLY SHIT MY THREAD GOT STICKY'D I'M SO FUCKING HAPPY RIGHT NOW!

They should really name it the 'agnostic particle'

>>4137155
>focus on the troll posts instead of the meaningful information, that's what defines a thread after all.

No, what defines a thread is what 80% of the posts are about. In this case, Comic Sans and Mac vs. PC.

Thanks for pointing out exactly five out of 300 post that are somewhat relevant to OP. Couldn't have found that in 2 milliseconds on Google News.

>>4137305
yes, then i can be unsure whether or not it exists

i think higgs boson is a pretty cool guy. eh gives us mass, and doesnt afraid of anything.

"Will there come a time," said Man, "when data will be sufficient or is the problem insoluble in all conceivable circumstances?"

The Cosmic AC said, "NO PROBLEM IS INSOLUBLE IN ALL CONCEIVABLE CIRCUMSTANCES."

Man said, "When will you have enough data to answer the question?"

"THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER."

"Will you keep working on it?" asked Man.

The Cosmic AC said, "I WILL."

Man said, "We shall wait."

>>4137454
the answer is 42
>hitchhikers guide

A rough overlay of the signal fit plots from ATLAS and CMS. Probably the best way to look at what the results mean in combination with each other.

>>4137467
BTW this is from figure 7b of
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1406358?ln=en
and figure 13b of
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1406347?ln=en

Someone more handy with image editing can probably do a better job.

So, quick recap: higgs-boson confirmed to be hiding at 125 GeV at 2.3 sigma with 5 inverse femtobarns of data processed. Definitive answer expected at around 30 femtobarns of processed data.

>>4137490
quick question; how do we use it to kill people?

>>4137496
Just stick their head in the particle collider.

>>4137033
Is there a recorded copy of this live stream? It's times like this when I hate living on the other side of the world.

Heuristic for the uninformed by the barely knowledgable:

If no Higgs Boson, we have to throw out the entire canon of physics, etc.

If Higgs Boson, we keep the standard model and crank the volume of the collider up to 11

Can I get a +1, etc?

>>4137458

cool story, but nope

told them to ind the couch.

Ok, so now we attach neutrino engines to them to weaponize them and destroy our enemies before they even lift a finger.

Missed it, someone tl;dr it for me

>>4137619
-> >>4137490

>>4137623
False, not confirmed, only a possible find, still waiting on more testing.

>>4137634
confirmed at 2.3 sigma... of course that's not definite yet, like I already stated.

>>4137646
Then it's not confirmed if it's not definite, it's just a point at which we can examine deeper than all other points.

Saging because sticky.

psychology/philosophy major here. i don't understand what any of this means. can someone explain it to me please?

>>4137658
...
You don't understand how statistics work, do you? It's confirmed within a certain margin of error, which in this case is 2.3 sigma. That margin of error is too big to make a definite conclusion, but we can say with certainty that it is heading in the right direction.

All this modern physics shit just seems like cryptic random shit to me. I hear it's based on Mathematics, but didn't Gödel prove that psychics won't be able to explain itself in a definite manner if it's based on a mathematical system?

>>4137662
If the Higgs Boson is discovered via the observation of other particles that would account for it, then the Uniform Theory of Science aka Theory of Everything would be within our grasp.

Basically this is the missing link between all facets of science.

>>4137664
>confirmed within certain margin of error
Where did you read this? From all the official reports, it isn't a definite "we found it"

>>4137668
Well good thing there are no psychics here.

Math is based on what we can observe, sure, everything may be based on something else that we are unable to observe, but we're unable to observe, so we use what we can observe to make our logic.

>>4137670
what is the higgs boson and what is the theory of everything?

>>4137662
They found that the higgs-boson is likely to have a mass of around 125 GeV, which is in line with earlier findings by Fermilab. The recent experiments were done at much higher energies, and the margin of error is smaller than before. Probably end of next summer (if there aren't any problems) there will be a definitive answer to the question whether a standard model higgs-boson exists.

>>4137679
>theory of everything
Theory connecting Quantum and Classical physics.

>>4137675
>Where did you read this? From all the official reports, it isn't a definite "we found it"
Christ, for the third time, that's not what I'm saying. Reread my previous post. There is still uncertainty, but less than ever before.

>>4137682
I reread it, but less certainty than an already small certainty does not equate to definite. Fuck off.

>>4137679
I think the Higgs Boson is supposed to be the particle that creates the fundamental forces.

>>4137670
Just no.
>>4137679
The higgs-boson is the particle which is responsible for mass. It is a requirement for the standard model of particle physics to be correct.

>>4137668
>didn't Gödel prove that psychics won't be able to explain itself in a definite manner if it's based on a mathematical system

0/10

>>4137691
>small certainty does not equate to definite
Jesus fucking Christ are you absolutely retarded? I'll try it one more time. <span class="math">\underline{\bf Of~course~this~isn't~a~definitive~answer.}[/spoiler]. I never said that. That's you being an idiot and reading something I never wrote. Fuckwit.

>>4137646
>confirmed at 2.3 sigma
>>4137664
>confirmed within a certain margin of error
>>4137682
>still uncertainty

>>4137707
It's like I'm really being trolled.

http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2011/12/13/higgs-seminar-discussion

interesting

Fuck you, I wont keep religion out of it, I will worship that particle as my personal savior and I will fucking kill you if it tells me to.

Or feed you stew from my gullet like a baby bird while stroking your hair and humming electric aunt jemima, whatever, thats up to god.

>>4137717
You just don't seem to get that there is a difference between 'pretty sure' and 'absolutely certain'. It's confirmed in the sense that we're pretty sure by now. That doesn't mean that we are absolutely certain. 'Confirmed at 2.3 sigma' means that we've established that there is less than about 5% chance that this finding is due to a random occurrence. Something which you would know if you weren't, in fact, a complete idiot. Then we wouldn't be having this retarded conversation.

You have a good day now.

They will never find it because there is no such thing as the higgs boson you retards.

>mfw they actually spent $10bn on some made up theory that hasn't got any real evidence supporting it

>>4137746
Quantum mechanics didn't had any evidence in the first place and we know that we can't live without Quantum mechanics.

HEY

I just got here!!

Where can I read about the results of this?
What happened?
Someone fill in details!

Wait I didn't read the thread but it the announcement over and if it is anyone have a video of the seminar.

>>4137664
dude, +/- 2.3 sigma in IQ ranges from brain dead to einstein

>>4137746
>mfw they want another $10b

>>4137932
There's a 94-98% chance they've found the Higgs Boson. They're going to keep ramping it up until they're 99.9999% sure.

But for practical measures, this was the day they announced the discovery of the Higgs Boson.

FUCK SOMEONE GIVE A VIDEO OF THE FULL ANNOUNCEMENT SO THOSE LESS FORTUNATE CAN WATCH IT.

I haven't got time to read through the entire thread. Did they find Mister Higg's missing ball or not?

>>4137999
They have good evidence that it may exist.

>>4138017
So they didn't find it?

>>4138022
We can't say for sure at the moment.

>>4138051
Then nothing really happened, correct?
Bleh.

>>4138055

>>4138055 

>>4138055  

>>4137999
why come to floorchan if you haven't got time. Surely should be low on your priority list

>>4138059
>>4138061
>>4138064

You screencapped, cropped, and saved all his posts?

Creepy, dude.

>>4138064
holy crap that image

>>4138130
Some people save my posts, others post images telling EK to take her pills, all sorts of things. Honestly, I think it's probably just a butthurt Irish with multiple personality disorder.

so ... what happened?

>announce they find "evidence" of of the "possible" presence of a Higgs Boson and try to hide the fact that they haven't found shit and spend the whole time begging for more funds
>modern science
I seriously hope they actually made such incredible progress and found something so amazing, however I full well expect it to be the above.

>>4138130
It doesn't take that long to take screencaps, I'd imagine. Why are you defending tripfags, anyway?

>>4138245
>he can't tell a samefag when he sees one

Slides from this morning and link to video:
https://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=164890

I'm too lazy to watch the hour of presentations, did they find anything interesting or not?

If it's called the God particle and obviously a part of God, why must religion be kept out of this discussion?

>>4138423
Maybe.

I was more excited about the Theory of Relativity being disproven...

>>4138441
And I should add, nothing official yet except narrowing the range that isn't excluded. There is an "excess" of events which look like they might be the Higgs (excess meaning more than you'd expect from known stuff that looks like the Higgs), but they'll need to accumulate more events before it's statistically significant enough to claim discovery. If it's just a random excess of events, it will go away with more data.

>>4138471
yes, there is only two things it can be; the much anticipated higgs boson or something else

>>4138511
Either it's the Higgs boson or it's not. Congratulations.